The future of woodworking is in the past.
I'm just telling you what I know. I was the architectural designer
for a union store fixture manufacturer in 1967. I saw the first bunk
of particle board arrive. The men in the shop were outraged, and a
rebellion nearly resulted in closing the shop.
Plastic laminate only came in a few colors. The year before they were
still sticking it down with wood glue and clamping it until it had
dried. There were only a half-dozen bits for the router, made of
brittle carbon steel; and they didn't put roller bearings on the bits
until five years later. I was living on the threshold of technology.
I've seen a lot of change. And as a manufacturer, I have been
responsible for advocating the use of new methods and new materials,
and not just to give the customers what they wanted. Even today, I
advocate for new technology...but when the price of value-added
products exceeds the cost of the real thing, I can see the writing on
the wall.
Value-added products are a bill of goods, and industry has become
persuaded to accept materials and hardware that are untrue, even
undesirable. Why would I want to pay $35 for a pair of drawer slides,
when a two-dollar webframe will do? Why would I buy a sheet of plywood
with a veneer so thin it cannot hide the substrate? And, why should I
ruin my health working in a cloud of poly-resins when I can work real
wood?
Look at it from the bottom line. Two good men can produce $500,000
worth of product in a single year. With the cost of technology and the
price of value-added materials, can they expect to clear twenty
percent? But the same two men working with standard machines and a
pile of sticks can produce $500,000 worth of boxes and clear up to
fifty percent. I'm just telling you what I know.
You never have to edge-band a piece of oak. Modern machines require
modern materials, but the first principles of working wood-to cut, to
shape, to fasten-are the same as they have always been...
daclark

I agree with you 1000%
My two passions in life are woodworking and photography.
Photography has been ruined by technology. The industry now wants you
to buy buy buy to keep up. If you go to a photo club meeting its all
about computers and programs not about photography
I also see it coming to woodwork. Its becoming about the tools not the
work. Look at the woodworking magazines they spend more time reviewing
tools than writing about woodworking. Look at Lee valley's catalougue
20 different high priced items that do the same thing, when most of the
time you can build a shop jig out of scrap to do the same.

I think we have ourselves to blame though. Most of us would rather have
the shiny tools to show off than the homemade jigs.
And as for the argument about the enviroment. I don't see how a sheet
of toxic chemicals and sawdust is any better for the earth that cutting
down a tree and sawing it into lumber
Oh well that's just my opinion and I'm sure I'll get flamed for it
See ya in the past


Peter
daclark wrote:
The future of woodworking is in the past.
I'm just telling you what I know. I was the architectural designer
for a union store fixture manufacturer in 1967. I saw the first bunk
of particle board arrive. The men in the shop were outraged, and a
rebellion nearly resulted in closing the shop.
Plastic laminate only came in a few colors. The year before they were
still sticking it down with wood glue and clamping it until it had
dried. There were only a half-dozen bits for the router, made of
brittle carbon steel; and they didn't put roller bearings on the bits
until five years later. I was living on the threshold of technology.
I've seen a lot of change. And as a manufacturer, I have been
responsible for advocating the use of new methods and new materials,
and not just to give the customers what they wanted. Even today, I
advocate for new technology...but when the price of value-added
products exceeds the cost of the real thing, I can see the writing on
the wall.
Value-added products are a bill of goods, and industry has become
persuaded to accept materials and hardware that are untrue, even
undesirable. Why would I want to pay $35 for a pair of drawer slides,
when a two-dollar webframe will do? Why would I buy a sheet of plywood
with a veneer so thin it cannot hide the substrate? And, why should I
ruin my health working in a cloud of poly-resins when I can work real
wood?
Look at it from the bottom line. Two good men can produce $500,000
worth of product in a single year. With the cost of technology and the
price of value-added materials, can they expect to clear twenty
percent? But the same two men working with standard machines and a
pile of sticks can produce $500,000 worth of boxes and clear up to
fifty percent. I'm just telling you what I know.
You never have to edge-band a piece of oak. Modern machines require
modern materials, but the first principles of working wood-to cut, to
shape, to fasten-are the same as they have always been...
daclark

"Peter" wrote:

My two passions in life are woodworking and photography.
Photography has been ruined by technology.

But the Great thing about technology and photography is all of the filma
cameras and lenses I can now afford. People are virtually dumping all of
their film cameras. You can buy great stuff for pennies on the dollar.
Medium format cameras that I once drooled over but could not afford are now
sitting right here at home and the chumps who dumped them are trying to get
something decent from 6 megapixels.

Lobby Dosser wrote in
news:Svtvg.9393$Oj.4860@trnddc05:

"Peter" wrote:

My two passions in life are woodworking and photography.
Photography has been ruined by technology.

But the Great thing about technology and photography is all of the filma
cameras and lenses I can now afford. People are virtually dumping all of
their film cameras. You can buy great stuff for pennies on the dollar.
Medium format cameras that I once drooled over but could not afford are
now sitting right here at home and the chumps who dumped them are trying
to get something decent from 6 megapixels.


If you find some cheap Leica cameras, do let me know.

"R. Pierce Butler" wrote:

Lobby Dosser wrote in
news:Svtvg.9393$Oj.4860@trnddc05:

"Peter" wrote:

My two passions in life are woodworking and photography.
Photography has been ruined by technology.

But the Great thing about technology and photography is all of the
filma cameras and lenses I can now afford. People are virtually
dumping all of their film cameras. You can buy great stuff for
pennies on the dollar. Medium format cameras that I once drooled over
but could not afford are now sitting right here at home and the
chumps who dumped them are trying to get something decent from 6
megapixels.


If you find some cheap Leica cameras, do let me know.



There are exceptions. ) And the Canon clones are a cheaper - possibly
better - alternative. There's also the Nikon range finders, though they
can be as expensive as a Leica.

daclark wrote:
Why would I buy a sheet of plywood
with a veneer so thin it cannot hide the substrate?

I got burned on this. I saw a reddish blotch, and I assumed it was a
stain/mark. I lightly sanded it and it got worse LOL.. Now, about once
a year, I drive 2 hours to get my plywood, because everyone local here
either has crap or has it way, way overpriced for hobbyists. ($130 for
a sheet of 3/4 oak plywood).

"bf" wrote in message
stain/mark. I lightly sanded it and it got worse LOL.. Now, about once
a year, I drive 2 hours to get my plywood, because everyone local here
either has crap or has it way, way overpriced for hobbyists. ($130 for
a sheet of 3/4 oak plywood).

What does it cost for the gas on the two hour trip? You must be buying quite
a bit of plywood to save the expense of going there and back.

I don't know what kind of plywood you're buying, but cabinet grade plywood
up here in Canada can easily run over $200 a sheet.

On 19 Jul 2006 08:16:23 -0700, "daclark"
wrote:

The future of woodworking is in the past.

You are not addressing woodworking, you are talking about
manufacturing.


I'm just telling you what I know. I was the architectural designer
for a union store fixture manufacturer in 1967. I saw the first bunk
of particle board arrive. The men in the shop were outraged, and a
rebellion nearly resulted in closing the shop.

I am a project manager for a store fixture manufacturer and I can tell
you that engineered wood has come a long way. Store Fixtures be
damned - the retailers demand the cheapest price, and they get what
they deserve.


Plastic laminate only came in a few colors. The year before they were
still sticking it down with wood glue and clamping it until it had
dried.

Look at the current run for the major Plam guys and understand that
they will custom run on anything over 5,000 sq ft., which a relatively
small run in a manufacturing environment.

Now we run them through a PUR line, where the press is set
particularly to the substrate and adhesive.

There were only a half-dozen bits for the router, made of
brittle carbon steel; and they didn't put roller bearings on the bits
until five years later.

Everything is carbide and ceramic now.

I was living on the threshold of technology.

That was then, and this is now.


I've seen a lot of change. And as a manufacturer, I have been
responsible for advocating the use of new methods and new materials,
and not just to give the customers what they wanted. Even today, I
advocate for new technology...but when the price of value-added
products exceeds the cost of the real thing, I can see the writing on
the wall.

If you are talking about the current sorry state of solid surfaces
pricing, I am with you. I have often told Corian customers to go to
#2 Granite.


Value-added products are a bill of goods, and industry has become
persuaded to accept materials and hardware that are untrue, even
undesirable. Why would I want to pay $35 for a pair of drawer slides,
when a two-dollar webframe will do?

I pay about $2.57 for a pair of Accuride 3832 equivalents in 20"
lengths.

Why would I buy a sheet of plywood
with a veneer so thin it cannot hide the substrate?

It's a decent point. The average offshore thickness of face plys is
down to 1/100 of an inch.

And, why should I
ruin my health working in a cloud of poly-resins when I can work real
wood?

Actually, the worst reaction that I ever had was to some Western Red
Cedar that I made a bunch of shutters out of.


Look at it from the bottom line. Two good men can produce $500,000
worth of product in a single year.

What the hell kind of product would that be?

With the cost of technology and the
price of value-added materials, can they expect to clear twenty
percent?

We could enter into a discussion of gross profit vs. net profit, but
probably not just right now.

But the same two men working with standard machines and a
pile of sticks can produce $500,000 worth of boxes and clear up to
fifty percent.

Dream on Bubba.

I'm just telling you what I know.
You never have to edge-band a piece of oak. Modern machines require
modern materials, but the first principles of working wood-to cut, to
shape, to fasten-are the same as they have always been...

Yep. And don't make a ****ing dime in comparison to manufacturing.


daclark
Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

daclark wrote:
: Hello, this essay was originally posted on a number of sites, and
: attracted quite a bit of comment.


And your post has been posted in many a thread here in rec.wwing.
You might try a better news reader.

-- Andy Barss

"daclark" wrote in
oups.com:

Hello, this essay was originally posted on a number of sites, and
attracted quite a bit of comment. It became too much to track the
comments and remember what had been said where, so I've relocate to a
central location I have established a new group for the discussion of
the craft trades; woodworking, metalworking, sculpture, glassworks,
pottery, etcetera; and the topic of apprenticeship in the inherent
occupations of man.
If you would like to join this group of professionals, as well as
novices, in the discussion of the craft trades...paste the link into
your browser. The site will be moderated to keep the junk out. No off
topic postings, no sales gimmicks, and no trashing the other guy's
opinion...
daclark

http://groups.google.com/group/senior-apprentice


Congratulations, you made it in to my kill file.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm