I have an exterior door that was varnished. I want to paint it the same
color of the trim on the house with latex paint.
What preparation do I need to do?
TIA
Max

"Max" wrote in message
om...
I have an exterior door that was varnished. I want to paint it the same
color of the trim on the house with latex paint.
What preparation do I need to do?
TIA
Max

Sand it.
Dave



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"Teamcasa" wrote

"Max" wrote

I have an exterior door that was varnished. I want to paint it the same
color of the trim on the house with latex paint.
What preparation do I need to do?
TIA
Max


Sand it.
Dave

That's it? Thanks. Consider it done.

Max

Max:

I would probably do more than just sand. But then I have to put out a
warrantable product so my take may be different than some. Solvent
based finishes often do not lend themselves willingly to adhesion of
other products, especially after they have aged, and worse still if
they are damaged.

Before anyone craps a banana, this of course excludes all build
finishes. But in this case, we are talking varnish.

As a sidebar, if the clear finish (no matter what it is) is dried out,
cracked, discolored, crumbly, or the wood underneath is discolored, the
finish is gone. All you are seeing when the surface is in this
condition is the last 5% of the finish, just the part that hasn't
fallen off. In this case, simply sanding off the crumbles won't work,
you must strip and sand to get to a good bondable substrate.

Anyway, it begs the question Max, how do you know it's varnish? When
we refinish a door, we have found that most homeowners and many
contractors use polyurethane for original finish, and then for
refinish. If it is a homeowner job you are looking at, you can almost
bet it was poly. Varnish and poly are two different animals, and if it
is poly, you should count on stripping the door before painting.

Me, I would strip anyway to be absolutely sure, especially since you
are probably talking about one side only. The oils, resins, and
hardners in the varnish (if that is what it is) have no doubt
penetrated the wood over the years, so there are things in the wood
that could kill your adhesion. And since you are going back over it
with paint, you wouldn't have to have the surface "perfect" before
painting, especially if you go back with oil based paint.

If you want to go latex, strip, coat the stripped side with KILZ 2 to
seal the resins in the wood and to assist in bonding, sand lightly
when dry, vacuum up the particles left from sanding, then put a couple
of coats of paint on it.

If you don't want to strip, clean the door up, sand the snot out of it,
vacuum up the particles, wipe down with thinner, seal it with the
original KILZ (for bonding purposes) and have your paint store match a
quart of oil based urethane to your latex color. It may be cheaper
(stripper for latex = $20; quart of custom mix oil base = $12) and
easier to avoid stripping and just to bite the bullet and buy a quart
of oil based paint. A couple of coats and you are finished.

Hope this helps.

Robert

On 2 May 2006 18:04:04 -0700, wrote:

Max:

I would probably do more than just sand. But then I have to put out a
warrantable product so my take may be different than some. Solvent
based finishes often do not lend themselves willingly to adhesion of
other products, especially after they have aged, and worse still if
they are damaged.

Before anyone craps a banana, this of course excludes all build
finishes. But in this case, we are talking varnish.

As a sidebar, if the clear finish (no matter what it is) is dried out,
cracked, discolored, crumbly, or the wood underneath is discolored, the
finish is gone. All you are seeing when the surface is in this
condition is the last 5% of the finish, just the part that hasn't
fallen off. In this case, simply sanding off the crumbles won't work,
you must strip and sand to get to a good bondable substrate.

Anyway, it begs the question Max, how do you know it's varnish? When
we refinish a door, we have found that most homeowners and many
contractors use polyurethane for original finish, and then for
refinish. If it is a homeowner job you are looking at, you can almost
bet it was poly. Varnish and poly are two different animals, and if it
is poly, you should count on stripping the door before painting.

Me, I would strip anyway to be absolutely sure, especially since you
are probably talking about one side only. The oils, resins, and
hardners in the varnish (if that is what it is) have no doubt
penetrated the wood over the years, so there are things in the wood
that could kill your adhesion. And since you are going back over it
with paint, you wouldn't have to have the surface "perfect" before
painting, especially if you go back with oil based paint.

If you want to go latex, strip, coat the stripped side with KILZ 2 to
seal the resins in the wood and to assist in bonding, sand lightly
when dry, vacuum up the particles left from sanding, then put a couple
of coats of paint on it.

If you don't want to strip, clean the door up, sand the snot out of it,
vacuum up the particles, wipe down with thinner, seal it with the
original KILZ (for bonding purposes) and have your paint store match a
quart of oil based urethane to your latex color. It may be cheaper
(stripper for latex = $20; quart of custom mix oil base = $12) and
easier to avoid stripping and just to bite the bullet and buy a quart
of oil based paint. A couple of coats and you are finished.

Hope this helps.

Robert


You've said a mouthful. Being the guy I am, I had to learn the hard
way. I too wanted to use latex over a "varnished" surface at my
house. In my case, it was the risers on some interior steps. In no
way shape or form was that paint (Sherwin Williams superpaint) going
to adhere.

I ended up using a heat gun and stripping it all off. It was a time
consuming PITA, but the results after sanding the scraped surface is
perfect. A beautifully smooth surface with excellent adhesion.

I say strip the old surface in whatever manner you want then sand 'er
smooth. Then apply the paint.

"George Max" wrote

You've said a mouthful. Being the guy I am, I had to learn the hard
way. I too wanted to use latex over a "varnished" surface at my
house. In my case, it was the risers on some interior steps. In no
way shape or form was that paint (Sherwin Williams superpaint) going
to adhere.

I ended up using a heat gun and stripping it all off. It was a time
consuming PITA, but the results after sanding the scraped surface is
perfect. A beautifully smooth surface with excellent adhesion.

I say strip the old surface in whatever manner you want then sand 'er
smooth. Then apply the paint.

Thanks, George.
I had an idea that stripping might be required but I didn't want to if I
didn't have to. On the other hand, I want a good finish and I'm willing to
do whatever I have to do to get it. I have a good heat gun and I can get
stripper. Which do you think would be better? I'm not fond of stripper
because of the fumes and the mess but if it's what I have to do, I'm game.

Max

wrote in message
ups.com...
Max:

I would probably do more than just sand. But then I have to put out a
warrantable product so my take may be different than some. Solvent
based finishes often do not lend themselves willingly to adhesion of
other products, especially after they have aged, and worse still if
they are damaged.

Before anyone craps a banana, this of course excludes all build
finishes. But in this case, we are talking varnish.

As a sidebar, if the clear finish (no matter what it is) is dried out,
cracked, discolored, crumbly, or the wood underneath is discolored, the
finish is gone. All you are seeing when the surface is in this
condition is the last 5% of the finish, just the part that hasn't
fallen off. In this case, simply sanding off the crumbles won't work,
you must strip and sand to get to a good bondable substrate.

Anyway, it begs the question Max, how do you know it's varnish? When
we refinish a door, we have found that most homeowners and many
contractors use polyurethane for original finish, and then for
refinish. If it is a homeowner job you are looking at, you can almost
bet it was poly. Varnish and poly are two different animals, and if it
is poly, you should count on stripping the door before painting.

Me, I would strip anyway to be absolutely sure, especially since you
are probably talking about one side only. The oils, resins, and
hardners in the varnish (if that is what it is) have no doubt
penetrated the wood over the years, so there are things in the wood
that could kill your adhesion. And since you are going back over it
with paint, you wouldn't have to have the surface "perfect" before
painting, especially if you go back with oil based paint.

If you want to go latex, strip, coat the stripped side with KILZ 2 to
seal the resins in the wood and to assist in bonding, sand lightly
when dry, vacuum up the particles left from sanding, then put a couple
of coats of paint on it.

If you don't want to strip, clean the door up, sand the snot out of it,
vacuum up the particles, wipe down with thinner, seal it with the
original KILZ (for bonding purposes) and have your paint store match a
quart of oil based urethane to your latex color. It may be cheaper
(stripper for latex = $20; quart of custom mix oil base = $12) and
easier to avoid stripping and just to bite the bullet and buy a quart
of oil based paint. A couple of coats and you are finished.

Hope this helps.

Robert

Thanks for the info, Robert.
I know it's varnish because I applied it. The house has 5 exterior doors. I
sprayed them about 10 years ago with McCloskey's Marine varnish and they
really look good.
The one I want to paint the color of the house trim is at the back of the
(attached) garage. I'm not adverse to stripping the door but I didn't want
to if I didn't have to.
And I don't mind spending whatever I have to for a good finish. The paint
I used on the trim (Glidden Endurance) seems to be holding up very well.
I'm wondering about the durability of an oil based paint. What's your
verdict?

Max

On Tue, 2 May 2006 15:03:25 -0700, "Teamcasa"
wrote:


"Max" wrote in message
. com...
I have an exterior door that was varnished. I want to paint it the same
color of the trim on the house with latex paint.
What preparation do I need to do?
TIA
Max

Sand it.


Or:
Wipe it down with solvent to clean the foreign oils off and dewax it
(some people do wax the door)
Then wipe it down with denatured alcohol to get the last bit of
solvent off. Solvent leaves a residue.
Then sand it.
Then wipe it down with a damp sponge to get the dust off.
More denatured alcohol to get the water and water borne crap and the
dust you missed off.
Use a decent oil base primer to bite the sanded varnish and give the
latex a good bite.
Then two coats of latex. After a year or two, the latex may still be
stuck to the door or maybe not.

The door, unlike a wall, will get substantial abuse from kicking,
touching, licking (dogs, kids), staining, etc. Why not go with an
oil base paint the same color as the trim?

Pete