I have outside stairs on the side of a hill. All pressure treated. Im
using 1/5 x 2 x 12 blocks to support 2 x 12 steps.
WHat is the best way to attached the support blocks to the riser? I used 3
deck screws on each block for one set of steps but Im not sure if those are
the right hardware to use as deck screws may not be meant to take that shear
stress. I could used 16p 3 inch nails, but I would think those would work
out eventually. Lags are very expensive and I was trying to avoid those.

Any thoughts?

"noxpurt" wrote in message
...
I have outside stairs on the side of a hill. All pressure treated. Im
using 1/5 x 2 x 12 blocks to support 2 x 12 steps.
WHat is the best way to attached the support blocks to the riser? I used
3 deck screws on each block for one set of steps but Im not sure if those
are the right hardware to use as deck screws may not be meant to take that
shear stress. I could used 16p 3 inch nails, but I would think those
would work out eventually. Lags are very expensive and I was trying to
avoid those.

Any thoughts?


Would not the risers and treads attach directly to the stringers?
Dave



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What are "support blocks?"

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http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/d...s/stringer.htm

If the above is a "stringer" (2by PT), the steps or tread lay upon (and are
fastened to) the horizontal face of the parallel stringers.

For this, Exterior grade decking screws would seem best (well, stainless
would be nicer).

For an "open" stairway out of doors, this should suffice.

http://www.hometime.com/Howto/projec...ks/deck_11.htm
Pg 11 Decks Building Stairs To frame a deck stairway, you need to figure
out the number of treads (steps) required and the rise and run (length) of
each tread. First, measure the height of the deck. Then divide the height by
7 (a typical stairway rise). If the answer's a whole number, then that's the
number of treads you'll need. If the answer ends in a fraction, then round
it off to the nearest whole number which'll be the number of treads and
divide that into the height. That gives you the rise you'll need for that
number of treads. To determine the most comfortable run of your treads (the
length), divide the rise into 75. So with a typical rise of 7 inches, a
typical run might be 10-1/2 inches. A rise of 7-1/2 inches would work best
with a run of 10 inches. But this so-called "comfort formula" does allow
some leeway, so layouts of 6-12 (72) and 7-11 (77) work out fine. TIP: On
deck stairs, a run of 10 inches always works great because you can use 3
2x4's (for a total width of 10-1/2 inches wide) or 2 2x6's (11 inches wide)
for the treads, leaving a nice 1/2-inch or 1-inch overhang at the front of
the tread. Laying out Stringers You can lay out a stair stringer very
quickly with a framing square by finding the rise on one leg and the run on
the other leg and then lining those up with the edge of the board. Mark
along the edges of the square to create the first step. Then move down the
board, line up the square and draw the next step. Continue that until you've
drawn all the treads. Cutting Stringers Use a circular saw to start all the
cuts. But use a handsaw to finish them, since the circular saw blade leaves
a little bit uncut at each corner. Tracing Stringers TIP: All stairways
require at least 2 stringers, and taller ones require 3. But rather than lay
each one out individually with the framing square, cut the first stringer
out and use that one as a pattern for the others. Bracing Stringers You can
install each stringer separately, but it's usually quicker to connect them
together with braces before setting them in place. Notch out each stringer
for 2x4 braces at the top, middle and bottom. Screw the braces in to each
stringer. Attaching Stringers Set the stringers in place against the rim
joist and nail through the top brace into the rim to hold it. Lag screw
through the brace into the rim joists to secure them permanently,
pre-drilling for each screw. Installing Treads Cut the treads to fit over
the stringers, leaving a 3-quarter inch overhang on each side to serve as a
drip edge and keep rain from dripping down onto the stringers. Screw or nail
the treads down into the stringers to finish the stairs.
"noxpurt" wrote in message
...
I have outside stairs on the side of a hill. All pressure treated. Im
using 1/5 x 2 x 12 blocks to support 2 x 12 steps.
WHat is the best way to attached the support blocks to the riser? I used
3 deck screws on each block for one set of steps but Im not sure if those
are the right hardware to use as deck screws may not be meant to take that
shear stress. I could used 16p 3 inch nails, but I would think those
would work out eventually. Lags are very expensive and I was trying to
avoid those.

Any thoughts?

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:11:22 GMT, "noxpurt" wrote:

I have outside stairs on the side of a hill. All pressure treated. Im
using 1/5 x 2 x 12 blocks to support 2 x 12 steps.
WHat is the best way to attached the support blocks to the riser? I used 3
deck screws on each block for one set of steps but Im not sure if those are
the right hardware to use as deck screws may not be meant to take that shear
stress. I could used 16p 3 inch nails, but I would think those would work
out eventually. Lags are very expensive and I was trying to avoid those.

Any thoughts?

Actually, I cannot figure out what you are doing but, Screws will snap
while nails will bend under pressure.

its not a stringer, but solid 18' length of 2 x 12 as a riser with nailing
blocks attached to it for the stairs to sit on.

Deck screws are not made to deal with lateral or shear stress and they snap
pretty easily so Im concerned about using then to attach the nailing or now
screwing blocks as they will carry the weight of anyone standing on the
step.

Nails would be much better in shear, but would, over time work loose with
the constant movement of foot use.

Lags would be best but even a 1/4 3" lag get pretty expensive when looking
at all the stairs I have.



"noxpurt" wrote in message
...
I have outside stairs on the side of a hill. All pressure treated. Im
using 1/5 x 2 x 12 blocks to support 2 x 12 steps.
WHat is the best way to attached the support blocks to the riser? I used
3 deck screws on each block for one set of steps but Im not sure if those
are the right hardware to use as deck screws may not be meant to take that
shear stress. I could used 16p 3 inch nails, but I would think those
would work out eventually. Lags are very expensive and I was trying to
avoid those.

Any thoughts?

"noxpurt" wrote in message
...
its not a stringer, but solid 18' length of 2 x 12 as a riser with nailing
blocks attached to it for the stairs to sit on.

Cut stringers and attach them to the inside of the 18' solid with some
screws or bolts.
Easy and fast. Forget making a ton-o-blocks. They will never last and the
alignment alone would take more time than cutting new stringers.

Dave

"noxpurt" wrote in message
...
its not a stringer, but solid 18' length of 2 x 12 as a riser with nailing
blocks attached to it for the stairs to sit on.

Deck screws are not made to deal with lateral or shear stress and they
snap
pretty easily so Im concerned about using then to attach the nailing or
now
screwing blocks as they will carry the weight of anyone standing on the
step.

Nails would be much better in shear, but would, over time work loose with
the constant movement of foot use.

Lags would be best but even a 1/4 3" lag get pretty expensive when looking
at all the stairs I have.


Do you have any pictures you can post in the binary group? More than a
couple of us are not understanding what you are saying. Screws and nails
have been holding houses together for quite a while and unless there is
something very unique in what you're doing, I just can't understand all of
this concern over shear strength and nails backing out. You know what they
say - a picture is worth a thousand words.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...


Do you have any pictures you can post in the binary group? More than a
couple of us are not understanding what you are saying. Screws and nails
have been holding houses together for quite a while and unless there is
something very unique in what you're doing, I just can't understand all of
this concern over shear strength and nails backing out. You know what
they
say - a picture is worth a thousand words.

--

-Mike-

If I understand the OP correctly, he is not cutting the typical "sawtooth"
in the stringer, just laying a complete 2x12 on an angle. The stair treads
are then mounted to nailers, which are attached to the stringer at the
appropriate angle to make the tread level. Seen from the side, you would not
be able to see the ends of the treads.

I have a similar set of deck stairs, but mine are done with dados in the two
end stringers, and a traditional third stringer in the center.

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:42:55 GMT, "noxpurt" wrote:

its not a stringer, but solid 18' length of 2 x 12 as a riser with nailing
blocks attached to it for the stairs to sit on.
Well, the 2x12 sounds like it is a Stringer. Instead of cutting out
triagular shaped pieces for the tread to sit on you are attaching a
block for the tread to attach to. Is that correct?
Deck screws are not made to deal with lateral or shear stress and they snap
pretty easily so Im concerned about using then to attach the nailing or now
screwing blocks as they will carry the weight of anyone standing on the
step.
Correct! Under increasing load screws will snap while nails will bend.
Typically screws were developed for drywall and then they became the
fastener of choice due to ease of use. However, most structures move
around and nails will bend with that movement while screws will snap
at a certain point.

Nails would be much better in shear, but would, over time work loose with
the constant movement of foot use.

Lags would be best but even a 1/4 3" lag get pretty expensive when looking
at all the stairs I have.
I use a lot of lags in the framing phase and yeah they are costly
compared with nails, etc. I buy them in 1,000's (actually by weight)
which becomes more reasonable.

It would take a bit of extra time but you could use a router to cut
slots on the stringer for the tread to fit into. Then, using screws
would be well suited as the would not be any shear.



"noxpurt" wrote in message
...
I have outside stairs on the side of a hill. All pressure treated. Im
using 1/5 x 2 x 12 blocks to support 2 x 12 steps.
WHat is the best way to attached the support blocks to the riser? I used
3 deck screws on each block for one set of steps but Im not sure if those
are the right hardware to use as deck screws may not be meant to take that
shear stress. I could used 16p 3 inch nails, but I would think those
would work out eventually. Lags are very expensive and I was trying to
avoid those.

Any thoughts?

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:13:59 -0400, "gw" wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
.. .


Do you have any pictures you can post in the binary group? More than a
couple of us are not understanding what you are saying. Screws and nails
have been holding houses together for quite a while and unless there is
something very unique in what you're doing, I just can't understand all of
this concern over shear strength and nails backing out. You know what
they
say - a picture is worth a thousand words.

--

-Mike-

If I understand the OP correctly, he is not cutting the typical "sawtooth"
in the stringer, just laying a complete 2x12 on an angle. The stair treads
are then mounted to nailers, which are attached to the stringer at the
appropriate angle to make the tread level. Seen from the side, you would not
be able to see the ends of the treads.

I have a similar set of deck stairs, but mine are done with dados in the two
end stringers, and a traditional third stringer in the center.
Sorry I did not see this before I posted.
Same approach but I've used a router for a more finished look....i.e.,
the tread does not exit the front of the Stringer,,,can also use a
circular saw set to depth.
I believe you can go up to 30" without the center stringer that gw
mentions if the treads are 2x10 or 12.

I was wondering about that. My steps are 39" wide so longer then the
engineering says they should be I guess for unsupported. I had not planned
on putting a center stringer, but as these steps have been there for 20
years with no problems (except for termites and rot which is why Im
replacing them with pressure treated) I think they will be will be fine
without the center support.


"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:13:59 -0400, "gw" wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
. ..


Do you have any pictures you can post in the binary group? More than a
couple of us are not understanding what you are saying. Screws and
nails
have been holding houses together for quite a while and unless there is
something very unique in what you're doing, I just can't understand all
of
this concern over shear strength and nails backing out. You know what
they
say - a picture is worth a thousand words.

--

-Mike-

If I understand the OP correctly, he is not cutting the typical "sawtooth"
in the stringer, just laying a complete 2x12 on an angle. The stair treads
are then mounted to nailers, which are attached to the stringer at the
appropriate angle to make the tread level. Seen from the side, you would
not
be able to see the ends of the treads.

I have a similar set of deck stairs, but mine are done with dados in the
two
end stringers, and a traditional third stringer in the center.
Sorry I did not see this before I posted.
Same approach but I've used a router for a more finished look....i.e.,
the tread does not exit the front of the Stringer,,,can also use a
circular saw set to depth.
I believe you can go up to 30" without the center stringer that gw
mentions if the treads are 2x10 or 12.

OK...thank you for the input. it was a big help
"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:42:55 GMT, "noxpurt" wrote:

its not a stringer, but solid 18' length of 2 x 12 as a riser with nailing
blocks attached to it for the stairs to sit on.
Well, the 2x12 sounds like it is a Stringer. Instead of cutting out
triagular shaped pieces for the tread to sit on you are attaching a
block for the tread to attach to. Is that correct?
Deck screws are not made to deal with lateral or shear stress and they
snap
pretty easily so Im concerned about using then to attach the nailing or
now
screwing blocks as they will carry the weight of anyone standing on the
step.
Correct! Under increasing load screws will snap while nails will bend.
Typically screws were developed for drywall and then they became the
fastener of choice due to ease of use. However, most structures move
around and nails will bend with that movement while screws will snap
at a certain point.

Nails would be much better in shear, but would, over time work loose with
the constant movement of foot use.

Lags would be best but even a 1/4 3" lag get pretty expensive when looking
at all the stairs I have.
I use a lot of lags in the framing phase and yeah they are costly
compared with nails, etc. I buy them in 1,000's (actually by weight)
which becomes more reasonable.

It would take a bit of extra time but you could use a router to cut
slots on the stringer for the tread to fit into. Then, using screws
would be well suited as the would not be any shear.



"noxpurt" wrote in message
...
I have outside stairs on the side of a hill. All pressure treated. Im
using 1/5 x 2 x 12 blocks to support 2 x 12 steps.
WHat is the best way to attached the support blocks to the riser? I
used
3 deck screws on each block for one set of steps but Im not sure if
those
are the right hardware to use as deck screws may not be meant to take
that
shear stress. I could used 16p 3 inch nails, but I would think those
would work out eventually. Lags are very expensive and I was trying to
avoid those.

Any thoughts?

In some areas you can buy the pressure treated stringers already cut. I
was lucky that the precut worked for me I guess.

I take it you are trying to avoid the tedium of laying out the stairs
with a square..

You could nail the treads in from the side in addition to laying them on
support blocks if you wished to have some extra support. You can use
galvanized ring shank nails which would hold pretty well. I used some
galvanized ring shanks in an air nailer for my back deck and it seems to
have worked well. And the air nailer was pretty fast.

Ron T

well........im just rebuilding what was already there. Its 3 tiers of
stairs....about 18 steps per tier with 2 midrise landings and a deck at the
top. The riser spans are 18'. Those are only supported top and bottom and
with a 4x4 post in the center. I would think the stringers with sawtooth
cut would be very much weakened over this span
"Ron Truitt" wrote in message
...
In some areas you can buy the pressure treated stringers already cut. I
was lucky that the precut worked for me I guess.

I take it you are trying to avoid the tedium of laying out the stairs
with a square..

You could nail the treads in from the side in addition to laying them on
support blocks if you wished to have some extra support. You can use
galvanized ring shank nails which would hold pretty well. I used some
galvanized ring shanks in an air nailer for my back deck and it seems to
have worked well. And the air nailer was pretty fast.

Ron T