"Enoch Root" wrote in message
...
D Smith wrote:

The columnist spent way too many column-inches talking about
sanding, removing natural oils, the type of paint to choose, etc.

Must've been under a lot of pressure.

er
--
email not valid
While working on a new home in a VERY high end area of Houston years ago I
was shocked and awed at the owners den. It was all oak panels and the
painter went to great lengths to pop the grain and stain it wonderfully. To
give you an idea how exclusive an area, the servants quarters above the five
car garage was over 2700 sq. ft. Anyway, the owner walks through checking
out things and stops in the den. He looks perplexed. He calls the painter
over and we all expect the painter to be congratulated on his wonderfull
work. No. The owner says that he hates these squigly lines in the panels and
to paint it black. We were all in shock. As was stated before, some have
taste and some don't.

--
Tom Adams

"CW" wrote in message ink.net...
Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly Steamer.
Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from a
time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he doesn't
sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that stuff
is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the quality.
Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.

I hear what you're saying, but a biscuit joiner? Please.

Thomas Adams wrote:
"Enoch Root" wrote in message
...

D Smith wrote:

The columnist spent way too many column-inches talking about

sanding, removing natural oils, the type of paint to choose, etc.

Must've been under a lot of pressure.

er
--
email not valid

While working on a new home in a VERY high end area of Houston years ago I
was shocked and awed at the owners den. It was all oak panels and the
painter went to great lengths to pop the grain and stain it wonderfully. To
give you an idea how exclusive an area, the servants quarters above the five
car garage was over 2700 sq. ft. Anyway, the owner walks through checking
out things and stops in the den. He looks perplexed. He calls the painter
over and we all expect the painter to be congratulated on his wonderfull
work. No. The owner says that he hates these squigly lines in the panels and
to paint it black. We were all in shock. As was stated before, some have
taste and some don't.

Sure, drown my little pun with your horrible tale! I hope the paint was
expensive, at least. Very expensive.

er
--
email not valid

"Enoch Root" wrote in message
news:lMidnZpgKJ42D9DZnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@forethought. net...
Thomas Adams wrote:
"Enoch Root" wrote in message
...

D Smith wrote:

The columnist spent way too many column-inches talking about

sanding, removing natural oils, the type of paint to choose, etc.

Must've been under a lot of pressure.

er
--
email not valid

While working on a new home in a VERY high end area of Houston years ago
I
was shocked and awed at the owners den. It was all oak panels and the
painter went to great lengths to pop the grain and stain it wonderfully.
To
give you an idea how exclusive an area, the servants quarters above the
five
car garage was over 2700 sq. ft. Anyway, the owner walks through
checking
out things and stops in the den. He looks perplexed. He calls the
painter
over and we all expect the painter to be congratulated on his wonderfull
work. No. The owner says that he hates these squigly lines in the panels
and
to paint it black. We were all in shock. As was stated before, some have
taste and some don't.

Sure, drown my little pun with your horrible tale! I hope the paint was
expensive, at least. Very expensive.

er
--
email not valid

Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly
Steamer.
Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from a
time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he doesn't
sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that stuff
is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the quality.
Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.

And while you're at it, throw away that remote control. Getting up out of
the Barcalounger and turning the channel changing knob on the old 17" black
& white Muntz TV was the way they did it in the good ole days and therefore
is the only acceptible way to do it now.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

While I agree with your sentiments I felt I should point out it is not
lognum but rather laudanum. See here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum
"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly
Steamer.
Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from a
time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he doesn't
sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that
stuff
is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the quality.
Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.


"Michael" wrote in message
...


That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:41:38 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:

That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.

I think that when it starts to bother you that he pulls his full-auto
brad nailer and painting antique wood, you've outgrown Norm. As soon
as you're saying "that's just WRONG!" every episode, you know you've
moved on to bigger and better things.

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:41:38 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:

That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.

I think that when it starts to bother you that he pulls his full-auto
brad nailer and painting antique wood, you've outgrown Norm. As soon
as you're saying "that's just WRONG!" every episode, you know you've
moved on to bigger and better things.


Balderdash! :-)

No wonder my spell checker couldn't deal with it.

"Doug Brown" wrote in message
...
While I agree with your sentiments I felt I should point out it is not
lognum but rather laudanum. See here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum
"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly
Steamer.
Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from
a
time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he
doesn't
sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that
stuff
is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the
quality.
Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.


"Michael" wrote in message
...


That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.

Why not? Works. I use one myself.

"Michael" wrote in message
...

"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
Yep, things should be made the old way. Junk your car, buy a Stanly
Steamer.
Trow out you stereo tuner. Built yourself a crystal set. These are from
a
time when things were built right. None of that modern crap. BTW, if you
have any surgery planed, make sure to find a doctor that dopes you up on
lognum first. Those modern anesthetics are crap. Make sure that he
doesn't
sterilize his instruments, wear a mask or use rubber gloves. All that
stuff
is more of that modern crap they just started doing to lower the
quality.
Don't forget to specify large needles and cat gut.

I hear what you're saying, but a biscuit joiner? Please.

"Michael" wrote in
:


"Brian Henderson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:

Yes, but he's not a true craftsman. The true craftsman is actually an
artist.

But Norm never pretended to be a craftsman or an artist. His show
appeals to the weekend handyman with a power tool fetish. People who
want to produce art would watch David Marks or the like, that's not
Norm's schtick.

That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.



WTF is the problem with a biscuit joiner? Really good for aligning glue
ups, attaching face frames, building carcases etc. I use nail guns for
decks, sheds etc. I don't use them for cabinet work except for a pin
nailer that is great for attaching molding etc. Power tools can save time
and in many cases be more accurate. Try felling a tree, limbing it,
sawing it into lumber, sizing the lumber, planing the lumber, hand
forging or forming any needed hardware and constructing a piece of
furniture or trimming out a staircase, wainscoating etc. using only
handtools. Would you be an artist, craftsman or carpenter?
Did you ever restore furniture? It's interesting to see the type of
hardware that was used to trim out and secure furniture from the
nineteenth century (a lot of nails and screws. Does a nail care if it is
hammered or driven? Does a screw care if it is turned by a hand or
powered driver?).
A craftsman is a craftsman and an artist is an artist. Call an artist a
craftsman and see what happens (they'll think you're a twit). Call a
craftman an artist and some of them will glow; true craftsmen will think
you're easy to impress.
Norm is a carpenter (I'm a carpenter that makes a living at it) that
builds furniture and stuff, for money, on a TV show. Wish I could do
that. I like to build funiture and stuff and every once in awhile a
member of the unknowing will call me an artist (a bull**** artist I will
own up to. I was once a bull**** craftsman, but I've advanced since
then). I would prefer to be called a craftsman or a good carpenter. I
consider myself just a woodworker.
The old ways worked, but woodworkers (and every other craft) looked for
easier more efficient methods and tools. It's called progress.
Don't knock Norm, knock Bruce (he can't use hand or power tools).
Regards,
Hank (had a few Ottercreek ESBs)

"Doug Brown" wrote in
:

While I agree with your sentiments I felt I should point out it is not
lognum but rather laudanum. See here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum "CW" wrote in
message ink.net...

Wow! Thanks for that. Most of us didn't know that. Is that anything like a
tincture of opium?

"Henry St.Pierre" wrote in message
7.142...
"Michael" wrote in
:


"Brian Henderson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:

snip A craftsman is a craftsman and an artist is an artist. Call an artist
a
craftsman and see what happens (they'll think you're a twit). Call a
craftman an artist and some of them will glow; true craftsmen will think
you're easy to impress.
Norm is a carpenter (I'm a carpenter that makes a living at it) that
builds furniture and stuff, for money, on a TV show. Wish I could do
that. I like to build funiture and stuff and every once in awhile a
member of the unknowing will call me an artist (a bull**** artist I will
own up to. I was once a bull**** craftsman, but I've advanced since
then). I would prefer to be called a craftsman or a good carpenter. I
consider myself just a woodworker.
The old ways worked, but woodworkers (and every other craft) looked for
easier more efficient methods and tools. It's called progress.
Don't knock Norm, knock Bruce (he can't use hand or power tools).
Regards,
Hank (had a few Ottercreek ESBs)


Very well stated! Hear, Hear !!

Lowell Holmes wrote:
"Henry St.Pierre" wrote in message
7.142...

"Michael" wrote in
:


"Brian Henderson" wrote in
message ...

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:


snip A craftsman is a craftsman and an artist is an artist. Call an artist
a
craftsman and see what happens (they'll think you're a twit). Call a
craftman an artist and some of them will glow; true craftsmen will think
you're easy to impress.
Norm is a carpenter (I'm a carpenter that makes a living at it) that
builds furniture and stuff, for money, on a TV show. Wish I could do
that. I like to build funiture and stuff and every once in awhile a
member of the unknowing will call me an artist (a bull**** artist I will
own up to. I was once a bull**** craftsman, but I've advanced since
then). I would prefer to be called a craftsman or a good carpenter. I
consider myself just a woodworker.
The old ways worked, but woodworkers (and every other craft) looked for
easier more efficient methods and tools. It's called progress.
Don't knock Norm, knock Bruce (he can't use hand or power tools).
Regards,
Hank (had a few Ottercreek ESBs)



Very well stated! Hear, Hear !!


A round of applause...

"Henry St.Pierre" wrote in message 7.142...
"Michael" wrote in
:


"Brian Henderson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:

Yes, but he's not a true craftsman. The true craftsman is actually an
artist.

But Norm never pretended to be a craftsman or an artist. His show
appeals to the weekend handyman with a power tool fetish. People who
want to produce art would watch David Marks or the like, that's not
Norm's schtick.

That's what I said. But even so, it unnerves even us amateurs when
he pulls out the nail gun or, heaven help us, the biscuit joiner.



WTF is the problem with a biscuit joiner? Really good for aligning glue
ups, attaching face frames, building carcases etc. I use nail guns for
decks, sheds etc. I don't use them for cabinet work except for a pin
nailer that is great for attaching molding etc. Power tools can save time
and in many cases be more accurate. Try felling a tree, limbing it,
sawing it into lumber, sizing the lumber, planing the lumber, hand
forging or forming any needed hardware and constructing a piece of
furniture or trimming out a staircase, wainscoating etc. using only
handtools.

I'm not saying you shouldn't use power tools. But how often do you
see a highly skilled cabinet maker pull out the nail gun or the biscuit
joiner?

I like Norm and I learn a lot watching him. Be he does things that makes
you wonder . . .

Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits

On 26 Apr 2006 13:36:04 -0700, wrote:

Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits

And a nail gun. Same model (although somewhat older) as Norm.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

Also seem him use a nail gun.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits

"Michael" wrote in message
...

I'm not saying you shouldn't use power tools. But how often do you
see a highly skilled cabinet maker pull out the nail gun or the biscuit
joiner?

All the time.

CW wrote:
Also seem him use a nail gun.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits


Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
is not a highly skilled cabinet maker

wrote in message
oups.com...

CW wrote:
Also seem him use a nail gun.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits


Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
is not a highly skilled cabinet maker

He's an Arrrteast! ;~) The stuff I heard him talk about and demo at a show
last fall seemed to take him completely out of the cabinet maker or
carpenter categories... gilding and bent laminations.

John

Yep Agreed I think he mastered the cabinet maker deal a long time ago

He does have a formal art education.

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...

CW wrote:
Also seem him use a nail gun.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits


Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
is not a highly skilled cabinet maker

He's an Arrrteast! ;~) The stuff I heard him talk about and demo at a
show
last fall seemed to take him completely out of the cabinet maker or
carpenter categories... gilding and bent laminations.

John

"Michael" wrote in
:


"Henry St.Pierre" wrote in message
7.142...
"Michael" wrote in
:


"Brian Henderson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:55:34 GMT, "Michael"
I'm not saying you shouldn't use power tools. But how often do you
see a highly skilled cabinet maker pull out the nail gun or the
biscuit joiner?

I like Norm and I learn a lot watching him. Be he does things that
makes you wonder . . .

How many highly skilled cabinet makers do you know? I know several. They
use many of the tools that Norm uses. I'm not sure what 'highly skilled
means' or what an artist truly is. I am very wary of anybody that refers to
themselves as "Artists".
I am lowly skilled, but I recognize when a biscuit joiner or pin nailer is
the best way to go.
Hank

wrote in news:1146101988.401948.186020
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:


CW wrote:
Also seem him use a nail gun.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits


Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
is not a highly skilled cabinet maker



C'mon he is, I'm not.
Hank

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in
ink.net:


wrote in message
oups.com...

CW wrote:
Also seem him use a nail gun.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Ive seen a show or 2 that David marks used biscuits


Well there ya go biscuits and air nailers jeesh ... D Marks obviously
is not a highly skilled cabinet maker

He's an Arrrteast! ;~) The stuff I heard him talk about and demo at a
show last fall seemed to take him completely out of the cabinet maker
or carpenter categories... gilding and bent laminations.

John



Marks is one of/or the best cabinetmakers I've seen. I don't necessarily
like his style, but his craftsmanship is something else. I bet Norm would
love David's 'Aircraft Carrier' jointer or David's multi-router (I would).
Hank

Henry St.Pierre wrote:

Don't knock Norm, knock Bruce (he can't use hand or power tools).

I'm still amazed Bruce still has all of his appendages.

Hank (had a few Ottercreek ESBs)

I know that ESB... Mmmmmmmmmmmmm, E-S-Beeeeeeeeeeeeeee... G

Michael wrote:

I'm not saying you shouldn't use power tools. But how often do you
see a highly skilled cabinet maker pull out the nail gun or the biscuit
joiner?

I would have counted Danny Proulx as highly skilled. G

A time and a place...

I am just finishing, completing, a set of kitchen cabinets made out of
some real nice quartersawn oak, some of it almost looks quilted. The
first thing my wife said after I got the boards run through the planer
was "can we sand out those saw marks?" I had to explain to her that
those weren't saw marks they were the natural grain pattern of the
wood.

The next thing she wanted to do was paint the damn thing white. Well
the "saw" marks are still there and the finish is clear, three coats
of high gloss, and now that the cabinets are complete she is quite
happy with them not being white. But I have had to really work to
chang her perspective and appreciation of wood in this process.

Of course since no good deed ever goes unpunished, she wants
everything built with quartersawn oak. Luckily I have a supply that
is relatively inexpensive, but that's another story. ;-)