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#1
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Canada Post shipping experience.
wrote in message ... Your parcel is at the post office. Drive 6 miles. Look for parking. Find a meter one block away. Wait in line 15 minutes. Parcel is huge. Does the post office have a dolly you can borrow. You must be joking. Tell them you will be right back. Go get truck park illegally right out front of post office. Go into post office get sent to the back of the line. Wait 10 minutes. Carry parcel out to truck. Discover illegal parking ticket on window. Stop ordering from company. Not Lee Valley that time but it could have been. So by not ordering from that company again will that solve the problems you had with the post office for future deliveries? |
#2
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Canada Post shipping experience.
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#3
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Canada Post shipping experience.
wrote in message ... On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 19:42:56 GMT, "Leon" wrote: Yes. I switched to BossTools http://www.bosstoolsupply.com who carry the same stuff as the other company and deliver to my door...cheaper as well. I quit Futureshop who used to deliver to my door, and now use Staples and Office Depot who deliver right to my door...Free. I use City Chef who delivers FREE right to my door. Even Sears now delivers right to my door. I avoid any company who uses Canada Post. Is Canada Post the national mail delivery? All the others that deliver to your door, is it their trucks delivering vs. a common carrier? If so I wish we down here still had that kind of service. |
#4
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Canada Post shipping experience.
wrote in message ... On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:16:45 GMT, "Michael Daly" wrote: Maybe you should find out why you seem to be one of the only people who doesn't get a parcel delivered to your door. Along with the other TWENTY THOUSAND people within 60 miles of me. None of us get home delivery and that includes parcels shipped by Canada Post. . That sounds like how the PS in the US is going. I still have mail delivered to my box at the street in front of my house. Older neighbor hoods have mail delivered literally to the front door. New neighborhoods have to collect mail at the end of the street in a central collection of mail boxes. I suspect large packages that do not fit the box have to be picked up at the PO. |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
"Leon" writes:
wrote in message .. . I avoid any company who uses Canada Post. Is Canada Post the national mail delivery? All the others that deliver to your door, is it their trucks delivering vs. a common carrier? If so I wish we down here still had that kind of service. Yes, that's "Canada Post". They do have their own delivery trucks. They deliver right to the door if you also get mail delivery right to your door, but many new suburbs ("new" being 20 years old, probably) have "Superboxes" that are like an outdoor postbox located a few doors away or around the corner, and rural areas often only have a postbox in a nearby town available to people, so many don't get to-the-door delivery. All the private companies will typically deliver to your door in urban areas and if you have a street address in a town they service, but they won't deliver to PO boxes or in rural areas. They typically use their own trucks, too, but in some areas they contract with local delivery agents (small towns, etc.) |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
"D Smith" wrote in message ... "Leon" writes: wrote in message .. . I avoid any company who uses Canada Post. Is Canada Post the national mail delivery? All the others that deliver to your door, is it their trucks delivering vs. a common carrier? If so I wish we down here still had that kind of service. Yes, that's "Canada Post". They do have their own delivery trucks. They deliver right to the door if you also get mail delivery right to your door, but many new suburbs ("new" being 20 years old, probably) have "Superboxes" that are like an outdoor postbox located a few doors away or around the corner, and rural areas often only have a postbox in a nearby town available to people, so many don't get to-the-door delivery. All the private companies will typically deliver to your door in urban areas and if you have a street address in a town they service, but they won't deliver to PO boxes or in rural areas. They typically use their own trucks, too, but in some areas they contract with local delivery agents (small towns, etc.) So... this is the way it is and the way it has been for quite a while in Canada. That just makes the OP's original post (whine) all the more ludicrous. He comes to a woodworking newsgroup and pitches a big bitch about the way deliveries are in Canada. The OP needs to get used to life where he lives or move. -- -Mike- |
#7
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Canada Post shipping experience.
wrote in message ... On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 17:35:29 -0400, "Mike Marlow" wrote: So... this is the way it is and the way it has been for quite a while in Canada. That just makes the OP's original post (whine) all the more ludicrous. He comes to a woodworking Listen moron, EVERYTHING I order now is delivered to my door by courier. From Mark's Work Warehouse, to Staples, Office Depot, City Chef, Boss tools, and several others. Most are FREE delivery for large enough orders as well. Moron? You come to a woodworking newsgroup and **** your pants because you have to drive six miles, suffer a parking ticket for parking illegally, and carry a package out to your car - all of which has absolutely nothing to do with woodworking, and you call me a moron? Maybe you should have taken your little hissy fit to alt.PMS. -- -Mike- |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
wrote in message ... On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 17:53:45 -0400, "Mike Marlow" wrote: all of which has absolutely nothing to do with woodworking, and you call me a moron? Yes. Anyone who replies to a thread about a subject he has no interest in just to BITCH and Whine about it is a MORON. I'll give you this - you're amusing. Not too freakin' bright, but you are amusing. -- -Mike- |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 20:58:48 GMT, "Leon"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:16:45 GMT, "Michael Daly" wrote: Maybe you should find out why you seem to be one of the only people who doesn't get a parcel delivered to your door. Along with the other TWENTY THOUSAND people within 60 miles of me. None of us get home delivery and that includes parcels shipped by Canada Post. . That sounds like how the PS in the US is going. I still have mail delivered to my box at the street in front of my house. Older neighbor hoods have mail delivered literally to the front door. New neighborhoods have to collect mail at the end of the street in a central collection of mail boxes. I suspect large packages that do not fit the box have to be picked up at the PO. We have one of those cluster boxes in my neighborhood (and we aren't a typical suburban subdivision). For parcels, there are several boxes that can hold parcels. Postman puts parcel for you in one of the boxes and leaves the key for you in your regular small box. You get the key, attempt to determine just which box it goes to (did I mention they don't have labels on the key?) and remove your parcel, the parcel door captures the key when you open the door and the postman retreives it the next time somebody has a package and they need that box. Your guess is correct, if the box is too big, you have to go to the post office to pick it up. A couple of problems with this setup. 1) the front of the box has a lip around it (the door frame). The back of the box that is used by the mailman opens up in a single fell swoop allowing the postman access to all the mail slots at once, thus all boxes have the full dimension of the box available to the mailman. The mailman does *not* like taking parcels back to the post office, so he (or she) is motivated to make sure that the parcel *will* fit into one of those parcel boxes. It may take a bit of squeezing on his part, but you'd be surprised how much you can squeeze a parcel to fit into a more confined space. Postman grunts, squeezes and gets the large package into the parcel box and leaves the key for the postal customer. Postal customer picks up his mail, discovers the key, fiddles around with all the parcel doors until he finds the one that the key opens, opens the door and attempts to retrieve his package. I did mention that the customer end of the box has a lip around the door, didn't I? i.e., the customer does *not* have access to the full width nor height of the the parcel box. For really large parcels inserted by really motivated mail carriers, the customer doesn't even have any place to get his fingers around the package either. I have literally had to cut boxes apart in the parcel box in order to get my delivery out. Second problem 2) Those boxes and keys get a *lot* of use over the years. Keys wear out, but the postman doesn't realize that. I got a package last week; after spending about 5 minutes trying to figure out which box the key went to because it did not work in any of the key holes, I could not get the key to open any of the locks. I wound up having to drive home, get a pair of pliers, and drive back (it's about a 1 mile drive to our cluster ... box) and was finally able to use the pliers to turn the key and retrieve my package from HMS products with my 320 grit Shapton stone, stone flattening jig and powders. The key was so worn, it barely worked. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
#10
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Canada Post shipping experience.
The D Smith entity posted thusly:
All the private companies will typically deliver to your door in urban areas and if you have a street address in a town they service, but they won't deliver to PO boxes or in rural areas. Almost true. UPS (to cite just one example, will indeed deliver to a rural area. In my case, I have a PO box number, which they will not deliver to, but they will deliver to a land location. Personally, I prefer the PO box delivery, so I don't have to be there, and I often just give the address of the post office (which is the same as the cafe, pub, and hotel), and the owner/bartender/postmaster just signs for it and I pick it up when I get the mail. |
#11
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Canada Post shipping experience.
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#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
"D Smith" wrote I hope it doesn't bother you that Purolator is owned by the Post Office. :-) Oddly, you can buy Purolator service from the Post Office nearest to where I work, but you can't get them to deliver to a PO Box in the same building.... Would that be because they would then be competing with themselves?? |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
Oleg Lego writes:
The D Smith entity posted thusly: All the private companies will typically deliver to your door in urban areas and if you have a street address in a town they service, but they won't deliver to PO boxes or in rural areas. Almost true. UPS (to cite just one example, will indeed deliver to a rural area. In my case, I have a PO box number, which they will not deliver to, but they will deliver to a land location. Let's make sure we have the same definition of "rural area". I'm excluding towns (which could be only a few hundred people where I am) if it's on the courier's route. By rural, I mean places that have directions that begin "at the end of the paved road..." I haven't tried UPS, but Purolator, DHL, FedEx all will not deliver to my work location, in spite of us knowing the land location, having a street address, a sign with the street name on the nearest major road (gravel!), and a honkin' huge sign with the business name on it. We're five miles from pavement, and it's just too far out of their way. There are small, local couriers who will do it (and at least one large transport company), but the costs escalates rapidly. Personally, I prefer the PO box delivery, so I don't have to be there, and I often just give the address of the post office (which is the same as the cafe, pub, and hotel), and the owner/bartender/postmaster just signs for it and I pick it up when I get the mail. The postmaster where my work mail address is (a PO box) has also suggested giving couriers the street address. And that's for an Offical, Canada Post, Post Office building. She also signs passport applications... ...and I agree: courier delivery when you're not home ends up being "hold for pickup". Some couriers (FedEX, Purolator) seem to have no problem if you tell them you want all deiveries to your address "held for pickup", but your mileage may differ. |
#14
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Canada Post shipping experience.
wrote in message I just want Lee Valley to stop being such a cheap company and deliver to my house. By now, everybody here knows that you can get your orders by UPS, but you're just too damned inept to place an order properly and specify a suitable shipper. It appears your whole life is now dedicated to being a troll. It baffles me how you get satisfaction out of being an ignorant wonder, but there it is. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
In article ,
wrote: I just want Lee Valley to stop being such a ****in' cheap company and deliver to my house. This may help... http://www.scottfamilylaw.net/images/crying-baby.jpg |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
Damn, Jimmy, if you think you have problems now, wait until you grow up.
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#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
The D Smith entity posted thusly:
Oleg Lego writes: The D Smith entity posted thusly: All the private companies will typically deliver to your door in urban areas and if you have a street address in a town they service, but they won't deliver to PO boxes or in rural areas. Almost true. UPS (to cite just one example, will indeed deliver to a rural area. In my case, I have a PO box number, which they will not deliver to, but they will deliver to a land location. Let's make sure we have the same definition of "rural area". I'm excluding towns (which could be only a few hundred people where I am) if it's on the courier's route. By rural, I mean places that have directions that begin "at the end of the paved road..." Well, my place is about 3 miles off the paved road, and I can get to-the-door-delivery by specifying "NW25-18-16-W2nd" as my shipping address. It's a land location, specified as quarter-section-township-range and whatever the hell 'west of the 2nd meridian' is. UPS will deliver to my land location, and will even leave the parcel on the back porch if I'm not there, and if the weather warrants. They will deliver to places further (way further) off the beaten track, and will tell you that if you ask about it. I haven't tried UPS, but Purolator, DHL, FedEx all will not deliver to my work location, in spite of us knowing the land location, having a street address, a sign with the street name on the nearest major road (gravel!), and a honkin' huge sign with the business name on it. We're five miles from pavement, and it's just too far out of their way. There are small, local couriers who will do it (and at least one large transport company), but the costs escalates rapidly. Dunno about Purolator, but DHL is the most useless so-called delivery service in existence. I have had the misfortune to have dealt with them on three occasions, and in each case, they screwed up, royally. The latest fiasco was when they delivered the package to the nearest post office, when the package was clearly marked "hold for pickup", they didn't call, and when I tried to track the parcel, they couldn't tell me anything more than "It's in Regina", which it wasn't. Caused me to have to run back home to get the parcel that should have been in their depot when I went to pick it up. Just an extra 50 miles or so. What a bunch of twits! FedEx is great for speed and for following instructions, though I've never tried to get them to deliver to my home. |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
On 08/04/2006 7:30 PM, Upscale wrote:
By now, everybody here knows that you can get your orders by UPS, but you're just too damned inept to place an order properly and specify a suitable shipper. It appears your whole life is now dedicated to being a troll. It baffles me how you get satisfaction out of being an ignorant wonder, but there it is. It's because Canada Post wouldn't deliver his medication and he's too busy frothing at the mouth to figure out how to get it delivered to his bunker some other way. |
#19
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Canada Post shipping experience.
"Lee Michaels" writes:
"D Smith" wrote I hope it doesn't bother you that Purolator is owned by the Post Office. :-) Oddly, you can buy Purolator service from the Post Office nearest to where I work, but you can't get them to deliver to a PO Box in the same building.... Would that be because they would then be competing with themselves?? Perhaps, but the only courier that I know of that will deliver to a PO Box is Priority Post, which is Canada Post's internal courier service (as opposed to Purolator, which they own but runs as a mostly-independent business). The Purolator policy could be one that existed before Canada Post bought them, and is maintained as part of an arms-length business realtionship. Other couriers also won't deliver to PO boxes (although I'm sure theyd rather take the business than let it go to Priority Post), and I have no idea whether that is their policy, or because the Post Office usually won't accept delivery from them. I know of one Post Office that will accept delivery from other couriers if you send it to their street address, but that could be against policy... |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
Oleg Lego writes:
The D Smith entity posted thusly: Oleg Lego writes: The D Smith entity posted thusly: Let's make sure we have the same definition of "rural area". I'm excluding towns (which could be only a few hundred people where I am) if it's on the courier's route. By rural, I mean places that have directions that begin "at the end of the paved road..." Well, my place is about 3 miles off the paved road, and I can get to-the-door-delivery by specifying "NW25-18-16-W2nd" as my shipping address. It's a land location, specified as quarter-section-township-range and whatever the hell 'west of the 2nd meridian' is. UPS will deliver to my land location, and will even leave the parcel on the back porch if I'm not there, and if the weather warrants. Yep. You're on the northwest quarter section of the 18th township on the 16th range. Standard Canada Land Survey designation in the western provinces. There are several zones, each based on a meridian (line of longitude). The prime meridian in the system is somewhere in Manitoba, so there is a NW25-18-16 quarter section somewhere there, too. (As well as one in the zone that is west of the 3rd meridian, one in the zone east of the second, etc.) I should be able to find you pretty easily on the map... They will deliver to places further (way further) off the beaten track, and will tell you that if you ask about it. I'll have to ask them - could be useful to know if they would deliver where I work. Out of curiosity, how much do they charge? Small courier services out of Regina seem to want about $50 to do a delivery to my work location. I haven't tried UPS, but Purolator, DHL, FedEx all will not deliver to my work location, in spite of us knowing the land location, having a street address, a sign with the street name on the nearest major road (gravel!), and a honkin' huge sign with the business name on it. We're five miles from pavement, and it's just too far out of their way. There are small, local couriers who will do it (and at least one large transport company), but the costs escalates rapidly. Dunno about Purolator, but DHL is the most useless so-called delivery service in existence. I have had the misfortune to have dealt with them on three occasions, and in each case, they screwed up, royally. They did manage to deliver one package to my work location, after trying to take it to the town the PO Box is located in. The Postmaster told them where we were... Now that they know, they just keep it at the depot and phone us to pick it up... The latest fiasco was when they delivered the package to the nearest post office, when the package was clearly marked "hold for pickup", they didn't call, and when I tried to track the parcel, they couldn't tell me anything more than "It's in Regina", which it wasn't. Caused me to have to run back home to get the parcel that should have been in their depot when I went to pick it up. Just an extra 50 miles or so. What a bunch of twits! FedEx is great for speed and for following instructions, though I've never tried to get them to deliver to my home. Pretty sure they won't, based on my experience, but things change... |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
I just want Lee Valley to stop being such a cheap company and deliver to
my house. By now, everybody here knows that you can get your orders by UPS, but you're just too damned inept to place an order properly and specify a suitable shipper. It appears your whole life is now dedicated to being a troll. It baffles me how you get satisfaction out of being an ignorant wonder, but there it is. But he is so GOOD at being an ignorant wonder! Mike |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
The D Smith entity posted thusly:
Oleg Lego writes: Well, my place is about 3 miles off the paved road, and I can get to-the-door-delivery by specifying "NW25-18-16-W2nd" as my shipping address. It's a land location, specified as quarter-section-township-range and whatever the hell 'west of the 2nd meridian' is. UPS will deliver to my land location, and will even leave the parcel on the back porch if I'm not there, and if the weather warrants. Yep. You're on the northwest quarter section of the 18th township on the 16th range. Standard Canada Land Survey designation in the western provinces. There are several zones, each based on a meridian (line of longitude). The prime meridian in the system is somewhere in Manitoba, so there is a NW25-18-16 quarter section somewhere there, too. (As well as one in the zone that is west of the 3rd meridian, one in the zone east of the second, etc.) I should be able to find you pretty easily on the map... I figured the meridian thing was something like that, but had no idea where the boundaries were. The land location is a pretty easy way of finding someone in a rural area. I responded to a fire call today, in which the place was referred to as the 'Bennet Farm" (not the real name), and by land location. Looking at the map, I saw it was the "Smith place". Turned out the Smith putting in the call was Bennet Smith. Without the land location, there would have been no way to find it. Worse, all farms seem to be called by the name of whoever homesteaded it 50 years ago. I have been in my place for about 5 years, and I suspect they'll start calling it by my last name just after I die, if I manage to last more than 10 or 15 years from now. They will deliver to places further (way further) off the beaten track, and will tell you that if you ask about it. I'll have to ask them - could be useful to know if they would deliver where I work. Out of curiosity, how much do they charge? Small courier services out of Regina seem to want about $50 to do a delivery to my work location. No idea. I have received only stuff for work, paid for by my employer, and haven't noticed the shipping cost. |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
"Oleg Lego" wrote in message ... Worse, all farms seem to be called by the name of whoever homesteaded it 50 years ago. I have been in my place for about 5 years, and I suspect they'll start calling it by my last name just after I die, if I manage to last more than 10 or 15 years from now. Twenty-five years here and someone came by last year who referred to it as the "J...." farm. Didn't feel so bad, though. They left in 1942, and the next family owned it longer than I have, a fact known to the questioner, who said "we always referred to it as the J.... farm when I was growing up." Dispatchers have a tough job. Been both dispatcher and responder in my time, and getting worthwhile information out of someone in a panic is very difficult. Not only by 'phone, either! |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Canada Post shipping experience.
On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:49:44 -0500, "The Davenport's"
wrote: I just want Lee Valley to stop being such a cheap company and deliver to my house. By now, everybody here knows that you can get your orders by UPS, but you're just too damned inept to place an order properly and specify a suitable shipper. It appears your whole life is now dedicated to being a troll. It baffles me how you get satisfaction out of being an ignorant wonder, but there it is. But he is so GOOD at being an ignorant wonder! Mike you have to admit that because Jimmy chooses to live in a remote area, that at least his village isn't missing it's idiot.. Mac https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm |
#26
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Canada Post shipping experience.
pe wrote:
I'm considering that Lee Valley vacuum press kit even though 72 bucks seems high for a plastic bag g but I haven't seen anything else like it. Has anyone ever used it? I haven't but I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who has. Ken Muldrew (remove all letters after y in the alphabet) |
#27
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Lee Valley vacuum kit. Canada Post shipping experience.
wrote in message BTW Rob if you are reading. You could do worse then adding a page to the website for customers to post their experiences and or how to's with their purchases. I'd be happy just to read the positive ones if they give insight into using the tool. Why? So you can have your complaints posted permanently for all to see? And in regards to experiences, isn't that what many people have done here? Aside from one or two, all experiences I've read have been positive. And for Lee Valley tools, there's been thousands of comments here in rec.woodworking. Lee Valley Reps are good but not intimately familiar with every product. That's not an LV problem, it's yours. Every question I've ever asked of LV's technical support has without exception, come back to me with the exact answer I was looking for or a way for me to find the answer. You'd do well to consider that with the thousands of items that LV keeps in stock, nobody is intimately familiar with everything. You're still trolling and just so you know, I'm essentially a troll too. Only difference is that my trolling is primarily aimed at other trolls. (Just in case you were thinking of asking) |
#28
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Lee Valley vacuum kit. Canada Post shipping experience.
In article ,
wrote: Yeah sure. I buy 150 square feet of veneer from Lee Valley and I'm trolling.g Yes. The two are in no way mutually exclusive. You're a troll, plain and simple. |
#29
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Lee Valley vacuum kit. Canada Post shipping experience.
In article ,
wrote: And you are the second biggest tool in the group, and far from the sharpest. Chuckle, chuckles. The biggest tools win, donchaknow. Do you actually do any woodworking? Yes. Do you? So far all we know about you is claim to spend a lot of money on non-woodworking stuff at LV (your own words), and know how to bitch a lot. |
#30
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Lee Valley vacuum kit. Canada Post shipping experience.
wrote in message ... (snip) BTW Rob if you are reading. You could do worse then adding a page to the website for customers to post their experiences and or how to's with their purchases. I'd be happy just to read the positive ones if they give insight into using the tool. Lee Valley Reps are good but not intimately familiar with every product. Hi Jimmy - Yes - we've thought about that - but it's a maintenance/moderation nightmare; we'd have to edit for accuracy (can't let bad information stand), and monitor content.... There're lots of BB's out there for that purpose... Cheers - Rob |
#31
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Lee Valley vacuum kit. Canada Post shipping experience.
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#32
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Lee Valley vacuum kit. Canada Post shipping experience.
wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:32:37 GMT, (Ken Muldrew) wrote: wrote: I'm considering that Lee Valley vacuum press kit even though 72 bucks seems high for a plastic bag g but I haven't seen anything else like it. Has anyone ever used it? I haven't but I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who has. I have searched the net but have never been able to find anyone using such a simple device. Or how durable it is. Nor a Lee Valley customer who has one. I have plenty of veneers that are not going to glue flat unless I use a press. (snip) Here you go Jimmy....this is from the MFG website: Better Homes and Gardens WOOD Magazine (Review of the Thin Air Press) It gets a 5 star rating with quotes like "the results were outstanding" we must be doing something right. February/March 2006 USA Woodworking for Women Magazine (Review of the Roarockit Thin Air Press Kit (for woodworkers) February 2006 USA American Woodworker Magazine (Article by George Vondriska about Roarockit woodworker's kit) Early 2006 USA Woodcraft Magazine (Vacuum veneering: a 5 page article by Doug Stowe about Roarockit woodworker's kit) January 2006 USA Australian Wood Review Magazine (Review about Roarockit woodworker's kit) December 2005 Australia Spotmag Magazine (Review about Roarockit skateboard deck building kit) Janaury 2006 Spain Woodworking for Women Magazine (Vacuum veneering: an article by Anna Thompson on Roarockit woodworker's kit) January 2006 USA The Maui News (Article on Roarockit Skateboard Company and our teaching program) Summer 2005 Concrete Wave Magazine (Article by Malakai Kingston about deckmaking classes at the University of California San Diego using in part Roarockit deckmaking program and materials) Summer 2005 USA Fine Woodworking Magazine (Article by Anatole Burkin, editor. About Roarockit woodworker's kit) August 2005 USA Woodcraft Magazine (Article by Tim Rinehart about Roarockit woodworker's kit) January 2005 USA |
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