Greg G. wrote:

Ahh.. but. the mobile home only cost a few thousand dollars.
It is pretty much a given that it is disposable. As for maintenance,
well, it's pretty basic stuff. In 20 years, that plot of land will be
worth far more than the deteriorating McMansion - even though they
cost the same amount originally.

I have a workshop in a retail/residential building in what is currently
a very trendy and "gentrifying" neighborhood on the corner of a busy
intersection.

The owners have a nice valuable piece of property. But sitting on it is
an old (four storey) masonry building with massive cracks in the
masonry, buckling concrete pad, with no end of plumbing problems,
electrical problems, and the floors and walls degrading, etc.

I believe they wanted to sell the property when, recently, property
rates hit their peak.[1]

But they were determined to sell it as a piece of valuable land plus a
revenue generating building, where the buyers (again, speculation) were
looking at it as land value *minus* demolition cost... and then rebuilding.

So the building on the property could be viewed as negative value if it
is as derelict as that one.

[1] because they replaced the back door knob! And put a coat of ugly
paint around the first floor externals and doors.

er
--
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B a r r y wrote:
Greg G. wrote:



Ahh.. but. the mobile home only cost a few thousand dollars.
It is pretty much a given that it is disposable. As for maintenance,
well, it's pretty basic stuff. In 20 years, that plot of land will be
worth far more than the deteriorating McMansion - even though they
cost the same amount originally.

I think we're comparing apples to oranges. I don't remember ever
comparing building and mobile home values to unimproved land values.

I thought "unimproved" meant no electric grid tie in and no water/sewage
hookups. I might be wrong, but aren't you implying it is "no permanent
building"?

er
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
What is happening at the PBS stations? Maybe they lost all their viewers
and decided they have to get back on track.

I turned on NYW and Norm did a whole show on router basics. Different
types, bit profiles, how to use them. Next week is going to be on the use
of a router table.

When TOH came on, I was stunned that they are actually going to work on a
rehab of - - - - - - - an old house! How will we keep up with the latest
fully automated appliances and personal zoned heating and cooling systems?
What if I have $750.000 and need guidance as to what hand carved marble
vanity and gilded faucets to buy? It looks like they may be trying to
educate the average homeowner and will leave us wealthy yuppies to fend for
ourselves to design a kitchen with ebony cabinets.


Well for me I was excited when I saw that NYW is going to do router
table. I need to get my VCR or TIVO or something because I am going to
buy a router soon and I will enjoy this a lot.

I saw my first show that I actually planned to watch last weekend. Was
disappointed its only 1/2 hour. Im in detroit area but i guess its 1/2
hour everywhere.

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

"dnoyeB" wrote in message
...

Well for me I was excited when I saw that NYW is going to do router table.
I need to get my VCR or TIVO or something because I am going to buy a
router soon and I will enjoy this a lot.


Look at the listings for The Router Workshop and you'll _really_ be amazed.

Odinn wrote:

Will his house last longer than my doublewide? Probably so, since I
plan on tearing my manufactured home down in 10 years and build a
geodesic home on the back of the property.


Now THAT is a plan! A good friend of mine did the same as he built his
home over a 3-4 year period. You could then use the DW as a shop
building! G My BIL lived in a 30 foot Prowler that he bought for 3k,
while we spent 2 years building out a barn on his organic farm.

I'd like to point out in your example that your DW was used, the house
was new. Had your DW been new in '99 or the home constructed in '95,
the numbers would be quite different. Also, had you done the same
example in many other areas of the US, the home would have doubled, or
possibly even tripled in value from 1999 to 2005.

Barry

On 2/15/2006 7:55 AM B a r r y mumbled something about the following:
Odinn wrote:

Will his house last longer than my doublewide? Probably so, since I
plan on tearing my manufactured home down in 10 years and build a
geodesic home on the back of the property.


Now THAT is a plan! A good friend of mine did the same as he built his
home over a 3-4 year period. You could then use the DW as a shop
building! G My BIL lived in a 30 foot Prowler that he bought for 3k,
while we spent 2 years building out a barn on his organic farm.

I'd like to point out in your example that your DW was used, the house
was new. Had your DW been new in '99 or the home constructed in '95,
the numbers would be quite different. Also, had you done the same
example in many other areas of the US, the home would have doubled, or
possibly even tripled in value from 1999 to 2005.

If my DW had been new in 2000 (the same year he built his house and I
bought the land), my value would be about the same as it is now, and I
would have been able to purchase a new DW for only slightly more than I
paid for the 5 year old one. Mobile homes (or as they are now called by
zoning and appraisals, manufactured homes) are built to HUD codes (have
been for almost 20 years now) and there are many out there that you
wouldn't even know were manufactured homes.

Those areas that would have doubled or tripled in value in 6 short years
are very few and far between, and if you read my original response one
more time, I said I moved 50 miles out from an area so that I can have
cheap housing and that the savings of having that cheap housing more
than offsets the commute costs (my commute costs is less than 10% of the
savings in monthly bills and taxes, in fact, the savings in taxes alone
pays for my commute). By living where it is cheap to live, I can afford
things that my coworkers cannot because I have more money left over
after the mortgage, insurance, and taxes, yet I have just as comfortable
of home to live in.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???

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worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

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rot13 to reply

Greg G mused:
Perhaps I'm jaded due to the poor quality of new construction here.
I think it's just a case of Atlanta having been a boom housing market,
and it attracted a lot of carpetbagging, skank developers like Ryland.

We barely have building codes here, compared to the north, and the
inspectors are willing to overlook just about anything - for a price.
Maintenance on the unsupervised beaner built $400k crap put here is
already huge. A large development nearby, less than three years old,
is already having roofs replaced and structural problems. Not to
mention the erosion and flooding problems due to the clear cutting and
terracing of the natural roll of the landscape. They are truly
abominations.

Heck, we live in a 15 year old house that is in need of constant
repair due to the low quality work and the total lack of code
enforcement during it's construction.

Hey Greg, if you think that your descriptions of Mcmansions are just
restricted to them or to your area, think again. Sadly, this greedy
mentality has permeated every area, including here in the northeast -
codes notwithstanding.

Our house was built in the late 70's, and you described it almost to a
"T" in your description of problems. They even used cinder block for the
basement when it had been outlawed here for home construction by code
some 20 years earlier due to its problem of disintegrating from the wet
ground. (And they didn't even have the decency to put sealer on the
outside of the block) The building inspectors inspected just the first
house in the development to be built, and signed off on all the other
'to be built' houses - leaving the builder to do anything he wanted.
There isn't much of anything I can find in this house that was built
properly or to code, including the electric and plumbing systems, the
undersized floor joists, the phenomenal warpage in the walls, the floors
that move up and down when you walk, every copper pipe joint springing
leaks, improper heating system design, ect, ect, ect. The fact that a
house today can get a certificate of occupancy is a testament to how
much a builder can bribe the local officials. But when a homeowner fixes
something and tries to get it inspected....

One of the largest builders in NJ is well known for building really nice
looking houses/condo's/etc., but after people move in and discover what
a peice of total crap it is, they are very often willing to take a huge
financial hit by selling out immediately and moving. He hires all
non-english speaking laborers for pennies on the doller and is presently
worth billions. This seems to be the norm, not the exception here. And
unfortunately, most all builders here are trying to compete with these
scam artists and so can not afford to do things "right" lest they go
broke. (At least that's their story)

Sailaway said:

Greg G mused:
Perhaps I'm jaded due to the poor quality of new construction here.
I think it's just a case of Atlanta having been a boom housing market,
and it attracted a lot of carpetbagging, skank developers


Hey Greg, if you think that your descriptions of Mcmansions are just
restricted to them or to your area, think again. Sadly, this greedy
mentality has permeated every area, including here in the northeast -
codes notwithstanding.

Oh, lovely. Glad (!) to know it has spread throughout the entire US.

I lived in Mullica Hill, NJ for a while a few years ago, but it was in
a farmhouse built over 120 years ago. Didn't notice any of the
aforementioned greed-fest developments at the time, but I'm sure
things are changing. I know Indianapolis was covered with them, and
Metro Chicago, well... what can I say...

Seems to me that this phenomenon is directly attributable to the utter
gullibility of the American Public. Just what the heck are they
teaching in schools, and what knowledge are parents handing down to
their children? Heck if I know... But I get the distinct impression
that this lack of discernment has allowed the bile of greed to
contaminate our political/economic institutions as well as home
construction. For instance, why are banks loaning money on these
sorry things when are supposed to be protecting their investments?
Collusion and Avarice, why else?

We continue to reap the rewards of our own ignorant hubris by
sidestepping real issues/solutions/knowledge and resorting to finger
pointing, bandwagon jumping, and polarized rhetoric that has permeated
every aspect of life. Even on the wreck, where I come for respite
from such things, there are constant political jabs and OT flame wars
about Liberals vs. NeoCons - US vs Them. Hey, in this world, as it's
always been, it's every man for himself, and this crap ain't helping
anyone but the Barons who continue to profit, laughing all the while
at the rubes who allow it to happen.

Even though I haven't been involved in a car accident in almost 20
years/1.5 million miles, and avidly practice defensive driving, I have
to pay ever increasing amounts for LEGALLY MANDATED car insurance to
compensate for those who feel the need to eat, talk on the phone, and
dig around on the floorboards for the French Fries that were dropped
while hurling down the highway at 70mph in their 12mpg SUV. In an
impromptu survey while I was driving in downtown Atlanta Tuesday
afternoon, I noted that over 80% of the drivers on these crowded,
narrow city streets were yakking on cell-phones, paying little to no
attention to what was transpiring around them.

It's a pseudo-socialist ponzi scheme.
And I'm damned sick of being ask - nay, REQUIRED - to foot the bill
for these moronic masses of asses.

Sorry about that, I just plodded through 22 threads of such nonsense,
and just had to vent somewhere. It ended up being here...

FWIW,

Greg G.