Mike Marlow wrote:

I stand up and fight for the rights of women to parade naked through the
streets. But only if they're under 180 lbs.

And for that I thank you. Let me know next time they're rallying and
I'll help with crowd control.

JP
************************************
I will fight no more forever.

"Jay Pique" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mike Marlow wrote:

And that (in paraphrase, though certainly not accurately) represented my
opinion. Seems some like yourself have a great deal of difficulty with
some
opinions, if they are not in keeping with your own.

None at all, actually. You were wrong, we were right, so we told you.
Plus, you're boring, so I felt obligated to be a little mean.


Damn - if I'd have known it was me versus "we" I'd have surrendered in the
very beginning. I hate it when that happens.

--

-Mike-

"Jay Pique" wrote in message
ups.com...

Mike Marlow wrote:

And after investing that five minutes, they'll discover the treasure
chest
of the really valuable information that's out there also. But, to each
his
own. Seems investing any time is considered an unrealistic expectation
these days.

Now a strawman? What are you, like 15?


Huh? Strawman? It was my only point from the beginning.

--

-Mike-

cm wrote:

David,

I mix the paint and water in a plastic quart container. I pour in
approximatley 1" of water and then fill it the rest of the way with paint.
With some thicker latexs I have to add a little more.

When you focurs on the spray patern and size of the atomized paint drops
they look big, but flow out nicley. It took a little getting use to at
first.

I have sprayed about 30 doors with my $70.00 Wagner Control Spray HVLP. You
need almost an 1 1/2" of water for it to spray well.

Craig

www.vintagetrailersforsale.com



"David" wrote in message
. ..

cm wrote:

I use my single stage hvlp to spray latex paint on doors all the time. I
even use the new Wagner Control Spray hvlp to spray latex. I get great
results with 2-3 coats.

AZCRAIG


www.vintagetrailersforsale.com


"Mike in Idaho" wrote in message
egroups.com...


David wrote:

[snip]



Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
the proper tip.

Dave,

I have the Graco 4900 procomp (built-in compressor for remote 2qt pot)
with both a remote gun and a gun with a 1qt pot attached. I bought it
since I had read that 4 stage turbines can paint latex but I've got to
tell you I haven't been too successful. I have all the tips and
experimented with several of them but can't get decent output past the
tightest round spray pattern -- which isn't helpful at all when I'm
trying to paint a door for example. Mind you it was xylene based paint
vs water, but the viscosity was really similar to latex. I tried
thinning but by the time I thinned it enough to spray I was hardly
putting any paint down. Ugh. I just let it go to lack of experience
with HVLP and finished the project (bedroom trim) as quick as possible
and then cleaned up and put it back in the box.

Problem is it's still sitting there and I'm considering finishing my
coffee table by hand because I'm not sure it's worth the trouble (I
don't do enough work to probably warrant this type of equipment).

What type of tip combination are you using? What type of fan cap (is
that the right term?) -- mine only has one, recently I read that you
can get high output caps, is that my problem? Or should I just figure
I'm not using it enough to become proficient and sell it?

Thanks,
Mike




What percentage water are you adding?

dave



that doesn't sound like a huge volume of water. I'm suprised you get
decent results with a 1 stage unit!

Dave

Mike Marlow wrote:
"Jay Pique" wrote in message
ups.com...

Mike Marlow wrote:

And after investing that five minutes, they'll discover the treasure
chest
of the really valuable information that's out there also. But, to each
his
own. Seems investing any time is considered an unrealistic expectation
these days.

Now a strawman? What are you, like 15?


Huh? Strawman? It was my only point from the beginning.

He said he knew the subject had been beaten to death - he knows there
are (many) old posts on the subject. So he has invested some time.
Now you trot out your snotty "Seems like investing any time is
considered an unrealistic expectation these days", which I'm sure was
followed by a tired sigh and disapproving shake of your head. I take
back my 15 year old snipe and now put you at half-past-dead and grumpy
that things aren't "like they used to be".

JP
*********************
Posting with abandon.

Mike Marlow wrote:

Whatever Jay. You have become tiring. Here - I'll leave you a place for
the last word ______________.

Thanks, Mike. It's good to see you doing the right thing.

JP

ljaques wrote:

Pop another tank on there and you'll have more than enough spare air
for most small to medium jobs (everything you mentioned) Robert.

I have one of those things, and have never even used it. It was given
to be by another contractor that never used it either. I may try that
out as the extra air capacity might overcome or at least compensate for
the lack of CFMs. Especially if I jump up to one of those guns that
Mike was pointing out.

Thanks -

Robert

On 12 Feb 2006 21:44:01 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

ljaques wrote:

Pop another tank on there and you'll have more than enough spare air
for most small to medium jobs (everything you mentioned) Robert.

I have one of those things, and have never even used it. It was given
to be by another contractor that never used it either. I may try that
out as the extra air capacity might overcome or at least compensate for
the lack of CFMs. Especially if I jump up to one of those guns that
Mike was pointing out.

They really do help. Stored air (at 90-120psi) is divvied out at 35psi
and that makes it last a whole lot longer.

Thanks -

Jewelcome.

-
The advantage of exercising every day is that you die healthier.
------------
http://diversify.com Dynamic Websites, PHP Apps, MySQL databases

wrote:
On 12 Feb 2006 21:44:01 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

ljaques wrote:

Pop another tank on there and you'll have more than enough spare air
for most small to medium jobs (everything you mentioned) Robert.

I have one of those things, and have never even used it. It was given
to be by another contractor that never used it either. I may try that
out as the extra air capacity might overcome or at least compensate for
the lack of CFMs. Especially if I jump up to one of those guns that
Mike was pointing out.

They really do help. Stored air (at 90-120psi) is divvied out at 35psi
and that makes it last a whole lot longer.

Thanks -

Jewelcome.

-
The advantage of exercising every day is that you die healthier.
------------
http://diversify.com Dynamic Websites, PHP Apps, MySQL databases

Let me make sure I understand...

I have a pancake compressor = not the smallest. but not enough to power
a spray gun, either.

So I can put an extra tank on, and be able to spray, say cabinets? It
seems like the system would take forever to get to pressure, but would
then hold it perhaps long enough to spray whatever, the recharge while
setting up for the next run.

Sound right? Sure would be less expensive than buying a new compressor!

Harvey

Sure would be less expensive than buying a new compressor!

Judging from how long my PC pancake takes to fill from empty, you'll be
waiting a long time. I'd say it's maybe two or three minutes to fill
the existing tank. Depending on how big the extra tank is, it could
take 15 minutes or more to fill, affecting the life of the pump. And I
bet it would discharge in a matter of seconds. There's not even enough
air in my compressor to take a wheel off a car with an impact wrench.
It runs after every 2-3 lugs.

I think you'd be better off with a turbine system.

brian

brianlanning wrote:
Sure would be less expensive than buying a new compressor!

Judging from how long my PC pancake takes to fill from empty, you'll be
waiting a long time. I'd say it's maybe two or three minutes to fill
the existing tank. Depending on how big the extra tank is, it could
take 15 minutes or more to fill, affecting the life of the pump.

I tee'd my 6 gallon PC compressor with a Milton quick connect between
the pressure switch and regulator. One or two 11 gallon auxillary tanks
can now be plugged in. The compressor is still used most of the time as
designed with absolutely zero fuss.

Do they take a long time to fill initially? Yes! One key is to only
use them when you need them and to store them full. I also keep the
compressor full all the time. This gives you an initial charge of cool,
condensed air. When all 28 gallons are charged, I can spray for a
surprising amount of time with a touch-up gun before the compressor
kicks in for a refill. By that time, I often need to move, reposition
the hose, etc...

By inserting the tanks before the regulator, they all get charged to 135
PSI, then the air line pressure gets set to 40-50 PSI. I'll usually use
another in-line regulator right at the tool for fine adjustments. If
you leave the 11 gallon tanks charged, they're always ready to shoot a
bunch of brads, finish nails or fill tires away from the compressor.
The extra was a great use of $20.

Will this wear out the compressor faster? Of course! Can I spray a
whole kitchen or entertainment center without waiting? Nope! Will this
replace an 80 gallon unit or turbine? Definitely not. But all in all,
the setup is surprisingly useful. I already owned the tanks (off-road
tire air), so all I needed was less than $10 of hardware to build it.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:50 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
eclipsme quickly quoth:

Let me make sure I understand...

I have a pancake compressor = not the smallest. but not enough to power
a spray gun, either.

So I can put an extra tank on, and be able to spray, say cabinets? It
seems like the system would take forever to get to pressure, but would
then hold it perhaps long enough to spray whatever, the recharge while
setting up for the next run.

Correct.


Sound right? Sure would be less expensive than buying a new compressor!

Yes, even a little 12v car tire compressor (if it didn't melt first)
could pump enough air into a large tank to spray a set of cabinets.

You need X cubic feet of air at Y PSI for the gun. How you produce it
doesn't matter.

--

EXPLETIVE: A balm, usually applied verbally in hindsight,
which somehow eases those pains and indignities following
our every deficiency in foresight.

eclipseme wrote:

Let me make sure I understand...

I have a pancake compressor = not the smallest. but not enough to power

a spray gun, either.

SNIP

Sound right? Sure would be less expensive than buying a new compressor!




It sounds perfect. You are only using the compressor part of the
operation to pressurize the air. I personally never thought of this
until Larry made the suggestion.

Think of it this way; my question that has been so ably answered was
that of how to use a small gun/compressor combo that can be portable
and taken to my jobs. I asked about using a bigger gun than my trim
gun, which works fine with my current pancake, but I was looking for a
bigger gun due to the small size capacity of the trim gun.

However, bigger guns need more CFMs. Here's the bite, and it will take
a little experimenting, but it should work fine. The bigger guns
suggested probably (actually) need about 6 cfm to operate at about 45 -
50 lbs of pressure. The pressure switch on my Bostitch compressor is
set at soemthing like 85 pounds; so plenty of pressure all the time
(and the compressor would run all the time) and the pressure itself
will never fall below what the gun needs to operate. HOWEVER, it will
not deliver the correct amount of cfms to push the paint out.

I must take my spray rig to the job, and must use it there to spray
metal doors, metal garage doors, metal sheds, security bars, etc.
with oil based coatings. Easy portability and an optimized delivery
system were what I was after. Without the portability issue, I have no
problem as I can spray from the larger shop compressor which lives in
the shop and is not at all portable. If it is latex, I already have a
nice airless setup for that. It shoots the thickest latex with no
thinning, so less coats of material. I was only asking about oil based
material delivery systems.

So... the great suggestion was made to put an additional tank on the
setup to store the pressurized air. If the compressor tank and the 2nd
tank are both pushed to 125 lbs of stored air, it will take much longer
for me to drain both tanks at 45-50 lbs of pressure required by the gun
(even at 6 cfm) than it would for me to drain the compressor only.
With a 6 gallon tank on the compressor, I didn't stand a chance.
However with 16 gallons using both tanks, I should get some reliable
spraying as I have such a greater volume of air under pressure.

I know I will have to let the compressor "catch up" but this is a
really hyperactive compressor that recovers very quickly. So I can
spray a fair amount, then when I get to a logical stopping point like
the end of run of security bars, a door face, whatever, I can stop
moment and then go on. I have developed a rhythm over the years from
taking my roofing gun out to do a repair when I have been stuck with my
1hp trim
compressor. Three or four shots, then it kicks in.... then three more
shots. I am patient and it works fine.

It spraying this way will work the hell out of the compressor, but then
I am only spraying a little at a time. I think with a little practice
and care, I can stay even with the setup.

I have my paint regulator/dryer setup as a stand alone unit that I take
along when I paint, and I will just put that on the end of the hose
coming from tank 2, not on the end of the compressor as I have it now
for my small gun.

Should work great.

Robert

B a r r y wrote:
brianlanning wrote:
Sure would be less expensive than buying a new compressor!

Judging from how long my PC pancake takes to fill from empty, you'll be
waiting a long time. I'd say it's maybe two or three minutes to fill
the existing tank. Depending on how big the extra tank is, it could
take 15 minutes or more to fill, affecting the life of the pump.

I tee'd my 6 gallon PC compressor with a Milton quick connect between
the pressure switch and regulator. One or two 11 gallon auxillary tanks
can now be plugged in. The compressor is still used most of the time as
designed with absolutely zero fuss.

Do they take a long time to fill initially? Yes! One key is to only
use them when you need them and to store them full. I also keep the
compressor full all the time. This gives you an initial charge of cool,
condensed air. When all 28 gallons are charged, I can spray for a
surprising amount of time with a touch-up gun before the compressor
kicks in for a refill. By that time, I often need to move, reposition
the hose, etc...

By inserting the tanks before the regulator, they all get charged to 135
PSI, then the air line pressure gets set to 40-50 PSI. I'll usually use
another in-line regulator right at the tool for fine adjustments. If
you leave the 11 gallon tanks charged, they're always ready to shoot a
bunch of brads, finish nails or fill tires away from the compressor. The
extra was a great use of $20.

Will this wear out the compressor faster? Of course! Can I spray a
whole kitchen or entertainment center without waiting? Nope! Will this
replace an 80 gallon unit or turbine? Definitely not. But all in all,
the setup is surprisingly useful. I already owned the tanks (off-road
tire air), so all I needed was less than $10 of hardware to build it.

Thanks for the reply.

So the question becomes, how long will the tank last before needing to
recharge?

Seems like a straight forward math question, but I don't have the
critical information.

If we take a 10 gallon tank, pressurized to 120psi, then regulated to
40psi, how long can you draw 6cfm out of it before dropping below 40
psi? How many cubic feet of air is in 10 gallons at 120psi? How much at
40psi? 60?

BTW - Are these tanks safe at 120psi?

Thanks,
Harvey

"eclipsme" wrote in message
news

If we take a 10 gallon tank, pressurized to 120psi, then regulated to
40psi, how long can you draw 6cfm out of it before dropping below 40
psi? How many cubic feet of air is in 10 gallons at 120psi? How much at
40psi? 60?

Ugh! That one would make my head hurt.


BTW - Are these tanks safe at 120psi?


Yes - most of them are rated around 125psi.

--

-Mike-

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:57:42 -0500, eclipsme wrote:
If we take a 10 gallon tank, pressurized to 120psi, then regulated to
40psi, how long can you draw 6cfm out of it before dropping below 40
psi? How many cubic feet of air is in 10 gallons at 120psi? How much at
40psi? 60?

To compute this, you need to know the following:

10 gallons (US) is about 1.55 cubic feet
120 psi is about 8.2 atm (14.7 psi = 1 atm)
40 psi is about 2.7 atm

I'll assume no temperature effects for simplicity (in reality, temperature
changes will occur, and those changes will affect the actual amount of air
available).

I also assume the discharge rate of 6 cfm is at 1 atm (probably fair).

You start with 1.55 cu. ft. * 8.2 atm = 12.7 cu. ft. of air in the tank.
You end with 1.55 cu. ft. * 2.7 atm = 4.2 cu. ft. of air in the tank.
So you have taken 12.7 - 4.2 = 8.6 cu. ft. out of the tank.
At a rate of 6 cfm, that would take about 1.4 minutes, or 1 min 25 sec.

--
Art

Art Greenberg wrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:57:42 -0500, eclipsme wrote:
If we take a 10 gallon tank, pressurized to 120psi, then regulated to
40psi, how long can you draw 6cfm out of it before dropping below 40
psi? How many cubic feet of air is in 10 gallons at 120psi? How much at
40psi? 60?

To compute this, you need to know the following:

10 gallons (US) is about 1.55 cubic feet
120 psi is about 8.2 atm (14.7 psi = 1 atm)
40 psi is about 2.7 atm

I'll assume no temperature effects for simplicity (in reality, temperature
changes will occur, and those changes will affect the actual amount of air
available).

I also assume the discharge rate of 6 cfm is at 1 atm (probably fair).

You start with 1.55 cu. ft. * 8.2 atm = 12.7 cu. ft. of air in the tank.
You end with 1.55 cu. ft. * 2.7 atm = 4.2 cu. ft. of air in the tank.
So you have taken 12.7 - 4.2 = 8.6 cu. ft. out of the tank.
At a rate of 6 cfm, that would take about 1.4 minutes, or 1 min 25 sec.


Wow. Nicely done!

I agreed to buy a 7 year old Sears 2hp, 20 gal, 220v, cast iron oiled
with oil separator, used lightly, for $150.00, rather than mess with
above, esp. for 1 1/2 minutes of air!

Sound good?

Harvey

eclipseme wrote:

I agreed to buy a 7 year old Sears 2hp, 20 gal, 220v, cast iron oiled

with oil separator, used lightly, for $150.00, rather than mess with
above, esp. for 1 1/2 minutes of air!

Sound good?

Harvey

Just check the cfms generated at the pressure you want to run your
selected gun. That compressor is probably a good machine that will
last a long time, but it may not generate what you need to run a larger
gun.

If you have your gun, check its requirements against the cfms generated
by the Sears compressor. If your gun requirements are where some of
the larger ones are (10-14 cfms at 50 - 70 lbs), you will be able to
run your gun but you will have limited spray time as above.

The cast iron part sounds good; so does the 20 gallon tank. It is
probably a CH compressor sold by them as their "Black Max" line. One
of my buddies had one for a long time, and he used it all the time as
his shop compressor and he liked it a lot.

Of course, YMMV.

Robert