I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is very
difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.

"Mark Brubaker" wrote in message
. ..
I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is
very difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.


I bought maple top for less money than the maple would have cost to make
it. The top is dead flat and a real pleasure to use. It is a Jorgeson top
and it came from The Cutting Edge in Houston. It is a 24"X72"X 1 3/4" thick
top.

I'd rather build rocking chairs than plane a top flat. If I had to make one,
I would probably take it to someone that has a wide sander and let them
flatten it after I got through with the planing.

"Mark Brubaker" wrote in message
. ..
I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is
very difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.


I think it depends on what your goals are for the workbench. If you are
trying to refine specific skills that the bench requires, or are using your
bench as an example of the type of work that you can do go for the solid
wood. I have both types and there is no difference in the type of work that
I can do. If I was starting from scratch I would use the Festool tables.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:25:43 -0500, "Mark Brubaker"
wrote:

I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is very
difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.


I glued up separate stock pieces. It took a long time to line
everything up and to get it flat. I used biscuits which helps the
alignment. The issue with this is that periodic sanding, flattening,
and finishing is necessary.

With MDF you might just replace the top MDF or flip it over when it
gets messed up.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:25:43 -0500, "Mark Brubaker"
wrote:

I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is very
difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.

I compromised on mine. Most of the bench is MDF (melamine on the top)
but I ran a narrow hardwood section with dog holes down one side. I
figured I would do most of my work on the hardwood part and just
assembly on the MDF part. I screwed up somewhat and put the posts at
the joint between the two so the hardwood part is cantilevered out too
much and I don't have a great connection between the two. So the
hardwood part is a little bouncy. It's been like that for a year, and
I've just been using the MDF side for everything but hand planing.
Eventually I'll get around to fixing it, but I'm too busy doing
projects.

If I had it to do over, I would just inlay hardwood strips in the top
and bottom layers of the MDF for the dog holes and be done with it.


-Leuf

Personally, I prefer my benchtop to be softer than the actual thing
I'm working on - so the table dents and not the dropped workpiece.

Mark Brubaker wrote:
I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is very
difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.

My first bench I went with 3 layers of particle board and hardboard
top. It was a good top, I still have it, and it takes alot of abuse.
But I could never get the thing flat. I spent hours with a belt sander
trying to flatten it. My top now is 2 layers of Birch (blue box)
plywood and a layer of ash. It was almost flat from the get go, just a
little planing. And it seems easier to work with, though that could be
my imagination. So, IMHO, go with a wood top. At least you can plane
it flat.

HTH

Lowell Holmes wrote:

I bought maple top for less money than the maple would have cost to make
it.

These testimonials just **** me off. How many people are standing
between me and the source that it must cost as much as a manufactured
item just to get it to me?

I was looking around the web and noticed that the big mills don't sell
much smaller amounts than say 3000bf. So that makes the next part
rather more difficult in a small community, but:

Why aren't woodworkers in organized groups using their combined
resources to purchase wood direct from the mill?

er
--
email not valid

Ba r r y wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:17:39 -0800, Enoch Root
wrote:

Why aren't woodworkers in organized groups using their combined
resources to purchase wood direct from the mill?


Where do you store it all?

Each participant decides that no his/her own.

Who gets first pick of the pile?

Nobody, do it with some geometric formula, or randomize the boards and
take them off the top.

Which mill?

A good one.

Who ensures that enough of the 3000 bd/ft meets grade?

That's a good question. The mill?

Who unloads it?

The group?

Who holds the cash?

The group? Some agreement on all this is required, obviously.

I see these as details, not problems.

er
--
email not valid

"Enoch Root" wrote in message
...
Ba r r y wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:17:39 -0800, Enoch Root
wrote:

Why aren't woodworkers in organized groups using their combined
resources to purchase wood direct from the mill?


Where do you store it all?

Each participant decides that no his/her own.

Who gets first pick of the pile?

Nobody, do it with some geometric formula, or randomize the boards and
take them off the top.

Which mill?

A good one.

Who ensures that enough of the 3000 bd/ft meets grade?

That's a good question. The mill?

Who unloads it?

The group?

Who holds the cash?

The group? Some agreement on all this is required, obviously.

I see these as details, not problems.


Why would anyone want to be bound by the wishes of a group with respect to
wood type, quality, location of the mill, etc.? Why would I want to be
responsible for helping to load/unload/stack wood for everyone else? I
don't have enough to do now?

--

-Mike-

We have a surplus building supply place nearby that provided the parts
for my bench. They get building materials from structures being torn
down and contractor surplus. The bench started with a solid core door
with rock maple flooring glued to the top then edge banded with a strip
of rock maple. The base is 4x8's legs and 2x8's stretchers.
Everything was surplus and cost ~$40. I found an old bench vice at a
garage sale for $10 that's been working well. If I were to build it
again I'd take the top to a cabinet shop to run through thier wide belt
sander to flatten the thing out, planing it by hand is quite a workout.
It's not the perfect bench but it certainly does the job.

"Enoch Root" wrote in message
news:59SdnVeaBtd43EHenZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@forethought. net...
Lowell Holmes wrote:

I bought maple top for less money than the maple would have cost to make
it.

These testimonials just **** me off. How many people are standing
between me and the source that it must cost as much as a manufactured
item just to get it to me?

I was looking around the web and noticed that the big mills don't sell
much smaller amounts than say 3000bf. So that makes the next part
rather more difficult in a small community, but:

Why aren't woodworkers in organized groups using their combined
resources to purchase wood direct from the mill?

er
--
email not valid

Start a buying co-op with other like mined people in your area and see how
it goes. If you are a member of your local ww guild/club it might be a
great placeto start.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:25:43 -0500, "Mark Brubaker"
wrote:

I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

MDF is a total waste of effort - it has neglible creep resistance and
you _will_ get sagging, no matter how thick. Far better would be to go
for a couple of lams of 3/4" plywood (even the cheap stuff) covered by a
lightly-glued layer of 4mm MDF and replacing that after a few years'
wear.

Mark Brubaker wrote:
I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is very
difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.



Words of warning:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...e7be315?hl=en&

BugBear

BugBear,
Thanks for the link. I believe you wrote the following in the discussion:

"Oak has open pores, and reacts with iron."

This is interesting and somewhat bad news to me as I was going to make my
top out of good ole PA Red Oak. From the way it sounds, this might not be a
very good idea. Is the result simply bad coloring or are there other issues
to be aware of?

Thank again, I appreciate the input.


"bugbear" wrote in message
...
Mark Brubaker wrote:
I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is
very difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.

Words of warning:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...e7be315?hl=en&

BugBear

Mark Brubaker wrote:
BugBear,
Thanks for the link. I believe you wrote the following in the discussion:

"Oak has open pores, and reacts with iron."

This is interesting and somewhat bad news to me as I was going to make my
top out of good ole PA Red Oak. From the way it sounds, this might not be a
very good idea. Is the result simply bad coloring or are there other issues
to be aware of?

Thank again, I appreciate the input.

I would welcome input from USA residents.

English oak reacts rapidly with iron,
turning BLACK.

Any open pored wood is a questionable choice
for a non-finished bench, since crud
gets in the pores, and looks ugly.

I believe red oak is VERY open pored.

BugBear

I would welcome input from USA residents.

English oak reacts rapidly with iron,
turning BLACK.

Any open pored wood is a questionable choice
for a non-finished bench, since crud
gets in the pores, and looks ugly.

I believe red oak is VERY open pored.

BugBear


BugBear, I have no input on the US Oak but, love your website and thanks for
having it out there, it is a great resource and I will build your bow saw one day.
And the links to bench pages are a great help, it helped me discover what type
of end vise I will build, which is a combo of tail vise and long end vise as one
solid unit operated on a double sized sliding frame system with two bench
screws.

As far as an opinion on a bench top, I think American Ash would be great as
it is not a brittle chippy wood, I have done a little chiseling and sawing of Ash
and it has a rubbery tough resistance, as well as being softer than Oak, it will
not damage edge tools. Pro baseball bats are made from Ash. On the California
coast, $3.95 a B/F.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

bugbear wrote:
I would welcome input from USA residents.

English oak reacts rapidly with iron,
turning BLACK.

Well, I've got some bookshelves that I made five and a half years ago
out of oak; they're mostly held together with finish nails (I was young
and didn't really understand how to use wood glue at the time), and
there's no blackening around the nails at all. They have been inside
all this time and never wet, though. (Someday I'll get around to
sanding and finishing them, but I'll have to find a place to put the
books that are on them first!)

On the other hand, I've got some oak boards recovered from a barn that
was put up in the ... I honestly have no idea, but the farmhouse on the
property dated from the 1930s, and the barn is probably contemporary
with that. In any case, the wood is black in a region around the nail
holes for about an eighth-inch away from the nail in the cross-grain
direction and nearly a half-inch each way along the grain. But those
were boards that were out in the weather for six or seven decades....

(Hmm. I wonder if it would be possible to ebonize oak with some variant
of this process....)

- Brooks


--
The "bmoses-nospam" address is valid; no unmunging needed.

AAvK wrote:
BugBear, I have no input on the US Oak but, love your website and thanks for
having it out there, it is a great resource and I will build your bow saw one day.
And the links to bench pages are a great help, it helped me discover what type
of end vise I will build, which is a combo of tail vise and long end vise as one
solid unit operated on a double sized sliding frame system with two bench
screws.

Thanks, I'm flattered.

BugBear

"Brooks Moses" wrote in message
...

(Hmm. I wonder if it would be possible to ebonize oak with some variant
of this process....)

Yep. The vinegar and iron elixir. Reacts with the tannins.

"Yep. The vinegar and iron elixir. Reacts with the tannins."

Blood! Good ol Roy showed us a black spot on the oak workbench he was
copying, and said "This is what happens when you bleed on oak. It turns
black reacting with the iron in your blood." SWMBO was watching, shook
her head and walked away, saying that was a little more than she wanted
to know.

So, that's what you gotta do. Put a little more of yourself into your
project.
;-)

I used 3 layers of 3/4 MDF. Did it about 3 years ago. I followed the
Shopsmith plan.The top is starting to show wear, but I can always flip it
over. It is really flat which is great. Of course, you can't pound on it
like you could maple, for example. It works for me.

If you use MDF put quite a few coats of poly or varnish on it to protect it
from solvents, and so glue won't stick

I'd do it again. It was fun making the bench and it was one of the best
things that I did in the shop.

Good luck.

Bill
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:25:43 -0500, "Mark Brubaker"
wrote:

I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is
very
difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.

I have 2 maple counter tops in the house. I made one and I bought a
"workbench top" from Edsal. (Grainger) It was cheaper to buy one.
The only redeeming quality in the one I made is I made it.

Try this link for an Ikea top...
http://p078.ezboard.com/fworkbenchde...opicID=5.topic




"Bill" wrote in message
news:OelKf.86839$QW2.46779@dukeread08...
I used 3 layers of 3/4 MDF. Did it about 3 years ago. I followed the
Shopsmith plan.The top is starting to show wear, but I can always flip it
over. It is really flat which is great. Of course, you can't pound on it
like you could maple, for example. It works for me.

If you use MDF put quite a few coats of poly or varnish on it to protect
it from solvents, and so glue won't stick

I'd do it again. It was fun making the bench and it was one of the best
things that I did in the shop.

Good luck.

Bill
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:25:43 -0500, "Mark Brubaker"
wrote:

I am building a workbench and am trying to decide if I should spend the
extra time and money to build an all hardwood benchtop or go with three
layers of MDF.

My concern with the hardwood benchtop is getting the wood to line up
properly during glue up and preventing warping. I have read several
articles and they all made it sound like glueing up this much would is
very
difficult and not as simple as it looks.

Looking for tips and advice from those who have done it already.

I have 2 maple counter tops in the house. I made one and I bought a
"workbench top" from Edsal. (Grainger) It was cheaper to buy one.
The only redeeming quality in the one I made is I made it.