Hi all.

Well, froze me socks of yesterday, so its time to look into heating for
my shop.

Details:

- Outdoor, above ground shop, ~75' from my house (read closest NG
supply).
- ~16x18 feet. 8 foot ceilings *except* the center portion (lets say
about 16x6 feet thats open straight up (for a skylight).
- All walls are insulated with R12 pink.
- Portions of the ceiling are R20 where i could, other is R12
- Floor is _not_ insulated (ill do this next year if i need to), wont
be easy since drywall sits on top of plywood floor, and i cant get
underneath from outside.

My dilema:

I only have 40amps out here. God knows im kicking myself for cheaping
out on wire when i buried it, but thats all ive got. So any serious
electric heat means the strongest power tool i can use is a hand saw.

What i've got right now:

An "industrial" electirc fan heater. It draws 20 amps at 220v iirc. It
outputs ~16,000 BTU's. Hooked it up yesterday, I cant see it providing
enough heat. Plus it eats up a good chunk of power.

What Im considering:

- One of those free standing radiant propane heaters - ie
"http://www.propaneshop.com/mall/more.asp" - which is rated at 8-42k
btu.
Question: Any comments?

- A forced air propane heater - ie
http://www.heatershop.com/propane_fo...ir_30_fas.html
Question: Comments? AND I worried about risk of explosion since it
would be pulling in duty shop air. Valid?

OR do you have any other comments or suggestions on what avenue I might
go for heating?

One approach I considered was wall a hung radiant propane heater for
~1000.00 with plenty of heat (like 70k btu) - however this bad boy
required a dedicated propane tank installed outside beside my shop.
Since my shop is in my backyard, surrouned by hedges and nowhere close
to the driveway for refilling the tank, this isnt really an option (nor
is getting getting it past my wife, she would consider that an
"eyesore").
Plus im not really up on spending 1000 bucks on a heating system
Running NG from the house is another possibily, but my guess is the
cost of that would be up there given the need for professionals to do
some of the instal, etc etc.


Much thanks for your comments!

Regarding one of the radiant heaters...correct me if I'm wrong (as if
that doesn't happen *automatically* on this newsgroup...), but I think
one of the byproducts of the radiant propane heaters is water vapor.

It's one of the reasons campers won't use them in small tents because
they cause condensation to form and everything gets wet.

Now, given your shop air is not currently being "treated," this is
probably no big deal.

But could this possibly aggravate a rust problem on tool steel?

this quarters issue of fine woodworking magazine has an article on this very
subject. gives the pro's and cons of the different types of heating
systems.go though your local bookstore and read it.

Len

Wood burning stove. If you're like most woodworkers, your scraps will
keep you warm and keep the shop clean.

Duke of Burl wrote:
Wood burning stove. If you're like most woodworkers, your scraps will
keep you warm and keep the shop clean.

Insurance costs might be higher though.

Chris

re water byproduct. Good point - Ive heard this as well, and ive also
heard that rust on tools is an issue.

re Woodworking magazine having article - will do, thanks, though im
hesitant.

re Wood burning stove. Id be all over this. But honestly - an open fire
in a workshop with plenty of dust flying around scares me (unless I go
airtight, what I have in the house). And that aside, i just can't see
my insurance company going for this, but who knows, I will look into
it.

Thanks all, keep those responses coming!

IMHO, I would not use an unvented heater anywhere. In addition to producing
water as a byproduct of combustion, they also pump carbon dioxide into your
workspace. For a shop, a good choice is a vented, ceiling-mounted tube
heater. Some (but not the only) sites for info):

http://www.airmechanicalinc.com/page54.html
http://www.agradiant.com/

--Jim

I don't have much bare steel in my garage so I use a propane
forced-air heater with a 50# tank (about as much as I want to carry).
It's shaped like the kerosene-fueled models; cylindrical with air in
one end and flame out the other. It's adjustable 30-40-50 thousand
btu. No thermostat, so I must turn it off when I start sweating.
It does not get very cold in north Texas, so heating the area
sufficiently around me does not take long. The little fan only draws
about 3 amps 110V.
I don't really have any dust since I'm usually working on a vehicle.
I have one of the radiant heads that sits on a propane bottle. That's
a rather large red-hot piece of metal that can burn skin easily. It's
quiet too, so you don't realize that it's hot until you are very
close. All the heat goes straight up except for the radiant heat that
is felt about 12-18 inches away.

On 28 Nov 2005 12:51:29 -0800, wrote:
What Im considering:
- A forced air propane heater - ie
http://www.heatershop.com/propane_fo...ir_30_fas.html
Question: Comments? AND I worried about risk of explosion since it
would be pulling in duty shop air. Valid?

(in
) said:

| OR do you have any other comments or suggestions on what avenue I
| might go for heating?

Solar heating panels on your shop's southern wall might provide much,
if not all, of the heat you want.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Unless you want to run another gas line, or upgrade the electric, you need
"portable" fuel. This could be wood, kero or propane. I'd suggest
checking on prices to see what is most affordable and the heater to go with
it. I currently heat with kero and a fireplace I salvaged from a job (which
is nice....especially when it's real cold and snowy, the shop is "cozy")
The torpedo kero heater gets the shop warm quickly and the fire maintains
it. My plans are to replace the fireplace (they are nice, but inefficient)
with a wood burner and add a propane heater (our tank is 12' from the shop)
to keep things warm. In your case, kero or wood is probably the way to
go. A torpedo will warm it up quickly, but they are noisy. A radiant heater,
although quiet, will take longer. Keep in mind that any unvented heater
will add water vapor to the air in your shop, whether it be kero or propane
or natural gas etc.. Personally, my biggest problem with water vapor
causing rust is in springtime when the heaters are not running, but the
humidity is high. Having a wood burner would probably be the least
expensive to operate, you can burn scraps, branches that fall off your
trees, trash, etc... It costs me about $75 a season for wood to keep the
fireplace stocked and about the same in kero for a season. Propane is
expensive, and IMO unless you have a large tank, or don't heat your shop
much, is a pain to have to go get a tank filled all the time. My .02...
Good luck and saty warm! --dave


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all.

Well, froze me socks of yesterday, so its time to look into heating for
my shop.

Details:

- Outdoor, above ground shop, ~75' from my house (read closest NG
supply).
- ~16x18 feet. 8 foot ceilings *except* the center portion (lets say
about 16x6 feet thats open straight up (for a skylight).
- All walls are insulated with R12 pink.
- Portions of the ceiling are R20 where i could, other is R12
- Floor is _not_ insulated (ill do this next year if i need to), wont
be easy since drywall sits on top of plywood floor, and i cant get
underneath from outside.

My dilema:

I only have 40amps out here. God knows im kicking myself for cheaping
out on wire when i buried it, but thats all ive got. So any serious
electric heat means the strongest power tool i can use is a hand saw.

What i've got right now:

An "industrial" electirc fan heater. It draws 20 amps at 220v iirc. It
outputs ~16,000 BTU's. Hooked it up yesterday, I cant see it providing
enough heat. Plus it eats up a good chunk of power.

What Im considering:

- One of those free standing radiant propane heaters - ie
"http://www.propaneshop.com/mall/more.asp" - which is rated at 8-42k
btu.
Question: Any comments?

- A forced air propane heater - ie
http://www.heatershop.com/propane_fo...ir_30_fas.html
Question: Comments? AND I worried about risk of explosion since it
would be pulling in duty shop air. Valid?

OR do you have any other comments or suggestions on what avenue I might
go for heating?

One approach I considered was wall a hung radiant propane heater for
~1000.00 with plenty of heat (like 70k btu) - however this bad boy
required a dedicated propane tank installed outside beside my shop.
Since my shop is in my backyard, surrouned by hedges and nowhere close
to the driveway for refilling the tank, this isnt really an option (nor
is getting getting it past my wife, she would consider that an
"eyesore").
Plus im not really up on spending 1000 bucks on a heating system
Running NG from the house is another possibily, but my guess is the
cost of that would be up there given the need for professionals to do
some of the instal, etc etc.


Much thanks for your comments!

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all.

Well, froze me socks of yesterday, so its time to look into heating for
my shop.

Details:

- Outdoor, above ground shop, ~75' from my house (read closest NG
supply).
- ~16x18 feet. 8 foot ceilings *except* the center portion (lets say
about 16x6 feet thats open straight up (for a skylight).
- All walls are insulated with R12 pink.
- Portions of the ceiling are R20 where i could, other is R12
- Floor is _not_ insulated (ill do this next year if i need to), wont
be easy since drywall sits on top of plywood floor, and i cant get
underneath from outside.

My dilema:

I only have 40amps out here. God knows im kicking myself for cheaping
out on wire when i buried it, but thats all ive got. So any serious
electric heat means the strongest power tool i can use is a hand saw.

What i've got right now:

An "industrial" electirc fan heater. It draws 20 amps at 220v iirc. It
outputs ~16,000 BTU's. Hooked it up yesterday, I cant see it providing
enough heat. Plus it eats up a good chunk of power.

What Im considering:

- One of those free standing radiant propane heaters - ie
"http://www.propaneshop.com/mall/more.asp" - which is rated at 8-42k
btu.
Question: Any comments?

- A forced air propane heater - ie
http://www.heatershop.com/propane_fo...ir_30_fas.html
Question: Comments? AND I worried about risk of explosion since it
would be pulling in duty shop air. Valid?

OR do you have any other comments or suggestions on what avenue I might
go for heating?

One approach I considered was wall a hung radiant propane heater for
~1000.00 with plenty of heat (like 70k btu) - however this bad boy
required a dedicated propane tank installed outside beside my shop.
Since my shop is in my backyard, surrouned by hedges and nowhere close
to the driveway for refilling the tank, this isnt really an option (nor
is getting getting it past my wife, she would consider that an
"eyesore").
Plus im not really up on spending 1000 bucks on a heating system
Running NG from the house is another possibily, but my guess is the
cost of that would be up there given the need for professionals to do
some of the instal, etc etc.


Much thanks for your comments!

Lots of good advice so far. I'll give you my 2c as well. I use a large kero
heater for my 2 1/3 bay garage/shop (Just shy of 500 sq ft). Its uninsulated
on 2 sides (2 sides adjoin house) garage doors are aluminum type. Mine is
30K BTU if I remember correctly. Lows sells one, I think I got mine there or
at the Orange store, I don't remember. It takes a couple of hours to bring
it up to a comfortable temp when its really cold (like 20deg F). It can
maintain temp in garage at any experienced outside temp so far. Anyway, my
kero heater is the circular type, not the bullet type. One similar is here
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...5C7&lpage=none
In fact that may be the one I have.

OK - Another option - I have a cottage. No insulation. off ground, on piers.
Built in 1887. I have an unvented comfortglow 30K BTU Blue Flame propane
heater. I have a 100lb bottle that I use a service to fill up. I only use
the cottage on weekends and for a week straight in summer. I do not use it
after the end of October until about March. We do have some cool nights in
the early spring or late fall. Anyway - This heater mounts to the wall, has
a thermostat and a blower. It does a great job at heating the cottage (about
900 sq ft). I did not put one of these in my garage because my wall space is
a precious commodity. http://www.comfortglow.com/blueflame/cb30t.html

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

On Mon 28 Nov 2005 02:51:29p, wrote in
oups.com:

- A forced air propane heater - ie
http://www.heatershop.com/propane_fo...ir_30_fas.html
Question: Comments? AND I worried about risk of explosion since it
would be pulling in duty shop air. Valid?

OR do you have any other comments or suggestions on what avenue I might
go for heating?



A woodworking coworker told me he invested in the propane version of a
Hot Dawg system.
http://store.patiohearth.com/hotdagahehdf.html

It vents *and* takes its air from the outside. No condensation. He really
likes it. Runs it 24/7 to keep the cast iron at 45 or so, turns it up
about an hour before he uses the shop. We're in south central Wisconsin.
I'd get it myself but he's out in the country and I'm in the city where
the red tape is so bad I quit researching before I'd found out about
every permit, inspection, and licensed contractor I'd need before I was
done. It looks like electric is the only way for me but fortunately it
also looks like I'll be okay with a 30 amp heater. (I don't really WANT
to brag, but I got 60 amps in my garashop, neener, neener, neener.)

Oh, his shop is a converted two-car. Can't remember the dimensions. I
know he's got lots more room than my 20x19.

That seems like a pretty slick solution but slick will cost ya. Seems
thermostaticly controlled too! Nice.
"Dan" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon 28 Nov 2005 02:51:29p, wrote in
oups.com:

- A forced air propane heater - ie
http://www.heatershop.com/propane_fo...ir_30_fas.html
Question: Comments? AND I worried about risk of explosion since it
would be pulling in duty shop air. Valid?

OR do you have any other comments or suggestions on what avenue I might
go for heating?



A woodworking coworker told me he invested in the propane version of a
Hot Dawg system.
http://store.patiohearth.com/hotdagahehdf.html

It vents *and* takes its air from the outside. No condensation. He really
likes it. Runs it 24/7 to keep the cast iron at 45 or so, turns it up
about an hour before he uses the shop. We're in south central Wisconsin.
I'd get it myself but he's out in the country and I'm in the city where
the red tape is so bad I quit researching before I'd found out about
every permit, inspection, and licensed contractor I'd need before I was
done. It looks like electric is the only way for me but fortunately it
also looks like I'll be okay with a 30 amp heater. (I don't really WANT
to brag, but I got 60 amps in my garashop, neener, neener, neener.)

Oh, his shop is a converted two-car. Can't remember the dimensions. I
know he's got lots more room than my 20x19.

Somebody wrote:

Hi all.

Well, froze me socks of yesterday, so its time to look into heating for
my shop.

Details:

- Outdoor, above ground shop, ~75' from my house (read closest NG
supply).
- ~16x18 feet. 8 foot ceilings *except* the center portion (lets say
about 16x6 feet thats open straight up (for a skylight).
- All walls are insulated with R12 pink.
- Portions of the ceiling are R20 where i could, other is R12
- Floor is _not_ insulated (ill do this next year if i need to), wont
be easy since drywall sits on top of plywood floor, and i cant get
underneath from outside.

My dilema:

I only have 40amps out here. God knows im kicking myself for cheaping
out on wire when i buried it, but thats all ive got. So any serious
electric heat means the strongest power tool i can use is a hand saw.


IMHO, this job cries out for one thing:

SOLAR.

When you install the solar, scrap out the sky light.

Lew

You've had a bunch of great suggestions, I'll add another. When I lived in
Kodiak Alaska, we used a waste oil heater in our boat barn. It will run off
of just about anything petroleum based including used motor oil. Locals
would bring oil to us and we heated the shop very cheaply. When no used oil
was available we'd burn whatever was cheapest (usually heating oil or
diesel) at the time. Just a suggestion.

--
Rich Harris :1986 CJ7, Detroits F/R, 4:10's, 33"BFGMT's, Mopar F/I, 4.0L
head, Rubicon Express 2.5" Wrangler springs, Procomp MX6 Shocks, and a bunch
more fun stuff. To Reply; shave my hair.
wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all.

Well, froze me socks of yesterday, so its time to look into heating for
my shop.

Details:

- Outdoor, above ground shop, ~75' from my house (read closest NG
supply).
- ~16x18 feet. 8 foot ceilings *except* the center portion (lets say
about 16x6 feet thats open straight up (for a skylight).
- All walls are insulated with R12 pink.
- Portions of the ceiling are R20 where i could, other is R12
- Floor is _not_ insulated (ill do this next year if i need to), wont
be easy since drywall sits on top of plywood floor, and i cant get
underneath from outside.

My dilema:

I only have 40amps out here. God knows im kicking myself for cheaping
out on wire when i buried it, but thats all ive got. So any serious
electric heat means the strongest power tool i can use is a hand saw.

What i've got right now:

An "industrial" electirc fan heater. It draws 20 amps at 220v iirc. It
outputs ~16,000 BTU's. Hooked it up yesterday, I cant see it providing
enough heat. Plus it eats up a good chunk of power.

What Im considering:

- One of those free standing radiant propane heaters - ie
"http://www.propaneshop.com/mall/more.asp" - which is rated at 8-42k
btu.
Question: Any comments?

- A forced air propane heater - ie
http://www.heatershop.com/propane_fo...ir_30_fas.html
Question: Comments? AND I worried about risk of explosion since it
would be pulling in duty shop air. Valid?

OR do you have any other comments or suggestions on what avenue I might
go for heating?

One approach I considered was wall a hung radiant propane heater for
~1000.00 with plenty of heat (like 70k btu) - however this bad boy
required a dedicated propane tank installed outside beside my shop.
Since my shop is in my backyard, surrouned by hedges and nowhere close
to the driveway for refilling the tank, this isnt really an option (nor
is getting getting it past my wife, she would consider that an
"eyesore").
Plus im not really up on spending 1000 bucks on a heating system
Running NG from the house is another possibily, but my guess is the
cost of that would be up there given the need for professionals to do
some of the instal, etc etc.


Much thanks for your comments!

wrote:
Hi all.

Well, froze me socks of yesterday, so its time to look into heating for
my shop.

Details:

- Outdoor, above ground shop, ~75' from my house (read closest NG
supply).
- ~16x18 feet. 8 foot ceilings *except* the center portion (lets say
about 16x6 feet thats open straight up (for a skylight).
- All walls are insulated with R12 pink.
- Portions of the ceiling are R20 where i could, other is R12
- Floor is _not_ insulated (ill do this next year if i need to), wont
be easy since drywall sits on top of plywood floor, and i cant get
underneath from outside.

My dilema:

I only have 40amps out here. God knows im kicking myself for cheaping
out on wire when i buried it, but thats all ive got. So any serious
electric heat means the strongest power tool i can use is a hand saw.

What i've got right now:

An "industrial" electirc fan heater. It draws 20 amps at 220v iirc. It
outputs ~16,000 BTU's. Hooked it up yesterday, I cant see it providing
enough heat. Plus it eats up a good chunk of power.

What Im considering:

- One of those free standing radiant propane heaters - ie
"http://www.propaneshop.com/mall/more.asp" - which is rated at 8-42k
btu.
Question: Any comments?

- A forced air propane heater - ie
http://www.heatershop.com/propane_fo...ir_30_fas.html
Question: Comments? AND I worried about risk of explosion since it
would be pulling in duty shop air. Valid?

OR do you have any other comments or suggestions on what avenue I might
go for heating?

One approach I considered was wall a hung radiant propane heater for
~1000.00 with plenty of heat (like 70k btu) - however this bad boy
required a dedicated propane tank installed outside beside my shop.
Since my shop is in my backyard, surrouned by hedges and nowhere close
to the driveway for refilling the tank, this isnt really an option (nor
is getting getting it past my wife, she would consider that an
"eyesore").
Plus im not really up on spending 1000 bucks on a heating system
Running NG from the house is another possibily, but my guess is the
cost of that would be up there given the need for professionals to do
some of the instal, etc etc.


Much thanks for your comments!

I used one of those 20 amp construction heaters in a 12 x 20
shed. R12 walls, R20 ceiling, R0 floor. It was home for a few
years while I built the big shed.

http://www.mts.net/~lmlod/Cabinfront6.jpg

I ate and slept in the small shed when outside temps.
dropped below -40 deg. (Manitoba) No problem. Takes about
half an hour to warm the place up to a comfortable temp.

The heater doesn't run continuously. It cycles on and off.
Even with the heater running you still have enough power
for most tools, one at a time. If you need more power
unplug the heater. Once the place is warm your good to
work 15 - 20 min. at the coldest temp without heat.

You could always run a #10/2 out there just for the heater.
75' may be a bit too far for #12.

But what the hey. Why buy a $60 heater that may out last
you when you can blow a grand or two on a heating system
thats worth more than the shed.

An old friend used to say "Sometimes you think so hard you
out smart yourself".

Very interesting D'Bonnie, thank you - what youre saying verifies what
I already decided to do. (Your old shop sounds identical to mine (which
I thought was nice, albiet before i saw the pic of your new shop - any
shots of the inside? ).)

Anyway, after messing around outside last night I'm not so worried.

With the heater running I could still run my 3 1/4 HP router and my
mitre saw at the same time without tripping a breaker. As you note, as
long as I can run one machine with the heater on I should be fine. I
dont have a DC yet, but the small scale ones im looking at only draw a
couple amps, so no big deal there.

Though based on calculations, im still suprised that a 16k BTU heater
would be able to warm up and maintain the sq2 footage we are talking
about - but then maybe its becasue we are Canadians - warm to us is
differnt to warm for a southern america (ie didnt someone earlier say
they fliped on the heater when the temp his 60f outside?)

So, my current plan is: A forced air Kerosen (possibly propane, im
going to research price here), prob ~50k BTU. Ill flip that beast on
first thing to warm the place up quick and thats it. Ill leave the
electric heater on to keep the chill off and I think ill be good.

Final Question: People arm of water vapour with unvented heaters. Makes
sense. Im planning on bringing the de-humidifer from the basement out
to the shop for the winter - not likes its needed inside during that
time anyway. Any reason why this wouldnt work?

Thanks for responses everyone, all interesting.

(snip)
Final Question: People arm of water vapour with unvented heaters. Makes
sense. Im planning on bringing the de-humidifer from the basement out
to the shop for the winter - not likes its needed inside during that
time anyway. Any reason why this wouldnt work?

Thanks for responses everyone, all interesting.


Well... label on my shop dehumidifier sez only use at temps 60 degrees and
higher.
Coil freezes up otherwise.
I suppose you could aim the heater at the coil, enough to melt the ice but
not to
warm it up enough so that it doesn't work. But then, all you're doing is
evaporating
the water back into the air. As I think and write... you may be able to put
the back of
the dehumidifier sticking outside, with a heater on it... nahhh... too
geeky.

With respect to large hunks of cast iron, though, I grabbed a couple of
magnetic
engine block heaters that I'm going to be sticking to the large hunks this
winter.
They're about 100 watts or so, but left on all the time, they should keep
the
cast iron warm enough to avoid condensation on the "cold night/damp morning"
transitions. My shop is not heated full-time, but I did just pick up an
80000BTU
reznor shop heater (really too big for my space, but the price was right)
that might find a home in there -- as soon as I plumb for gas. And lots of
it.

"Chip" in Columbus

On Tue 29 Nov 2005 08:29:31a, wrote in
ups.com:

Final Question: People arm of water vapour with unvented heaters. Makes
sense. Im planning on bringing the de-humidifer from the basement out
to the shop for the winter - not likes its needed inside during that
time anyway. Any reason why this wouldnt work?

I have my doubts but can't quote anything to support my theory that a
dehumidifier would not take the water out of the air fast enough so it
wouldnt affect the cast iron.

The other side of the coin is, what the heck could it hurt? Certainly
couldn't make things worse, and the worst case is, you have to sand some
rust off some cast iron. Certainly that will get old pretty fast but it
don't do it no real harm.

I think the idea of a propane heater with an electric helper isn't a bad
way to go. The only way we learn about this stuff is ask questions, take
our best guess with what we hope won't make things worse, and then go do it
and see what happens.

Maybe placing the dehumidifier as close to the heater as possible would
make a difference. Probably not right in front of the flame, though.

But honestly - an open fire
in a workshop with plenty of dust flying around scares me (unless I go
airtight, what I have in the house).

Are you worried about a dust explosion or a simple fire started in a
nearby dust pile? If its the former, my router's brushes throw off
enough sparks to be an issue, and I'm sure you have some tools that do
as well.

In article .com, wrote:
Regarding one of the radiant heaters...correct me if I'm wrong (as if
that doesn't happen *automatically* on this newsgroup...), but I think
one of the byproducts of the radiant propane heaters is water vapor.

Water vapor is a byproduct of burning *any* hydrocarbon fuel, in *any* type
of burner. This includes propane, butane, natural gas, kerosene, gasoline,
heating oil, vegetable oil, corn cobs, alcohol, and wood, to mention a few.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

But with a vented system, most goes up the flue. With the system he's
talking about, it stays in the shop.

In article . com, "Duke of Burl" wrote:
But with a vented system, most goes up the flue. With the system he's
talking about, it stays in the shop.

Point is, it doesn't matter what he's burning, or what he's burning it *in*,
there's gonna be water vapor produced. Some of it will wind up in the shop.
More winds up in the shop if it's unvented, true, but *any* combustion heater
will put some water vapor in the shop.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Im worried about the dust explosion. I dont know enough on the subject
to know if those are warrented.

It makes sense to me that with plentry of dust in the air, and a open
flame heater that takes in that dust filled there would be some sort of
explosion hazard.
Warranted?

If there's so much dust in the shop that there's a possiblility of
explosion, you'd probably suffocate before it could happen. IOW, don't
worry about it.

wrote:
Very interesting D'Bonnie, thank you - what youre saying verifies what
I already decided to do. (Your old shop sounds identical to mine (which
I thought was nice, albiet before i saw the pic of your new shop - any
shots of the inside? ).)

Anyway, after messing around outside last night I'm not so worried.

With the heater running I could still run my 3 1/4 HP router and my
mitre saw at the same time without tripping a breaker. As you note, as
long as I can run one machine with the heater on I should be fine. I
dont have a DC yet, but the small scale ones im looking at only draw a
couple amps, so no big deal there.

Though based on calculations, im still suprised that a 16k BTU heater
would be able to warm up and maintain the sq2 footage we are talking
about - but then maybe its becasue we are Canadians - warm to us is
differnt to warm for a southern america (ie didnt someone earlier say
they fliped on the heater when the temp his 60f outside?)

So, my current plan is: A forced air Kerosen (possibly propane, im
going to research price here), prob ~50k BTU. Ill flip that beast on
first thing to warm the place up quick and thats it. Ill leave the
electric heater on to keep the chill off and I think ill be good.

Final Question: People arm of water vapour with unvented heaters. Makes
sense. Im planning on bringing the de-humidifer from the basement out
to the shop for the winter - not likes its needed inside during that
time anyway. Any reason why this wouldnt work?

Thanks for responses everyone, all interesting.


I may have a humidity problem this winter. I have about 5000 brd.
ft. of lumber drying in my garage/shop. Finding room to move is a
challenge at the moment.

Your humidity problems will likely be the result of temperature
changes. De-humidifiers work well, until they freeze solid.
Their efficiency tends to drop a tad after that.

Give this a think.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ru...ls&qt_s=Search

I use TopCote. Seem to be working.

As for the inside of the big shed, imagine lots of drywall
thats about half way done priming, and a whole lot of empty.
The empty part is what the wood pile is all about.

I have a 24 by 32 foot shop with 10 foot ceiling in
Delaware. I heat it with a Hot Dawg 45,000 BTU propane
heater hanging from the ceiling. It operates on a 15 amp
circuit and does a great job. Go to this site to look at
them. http://www.qcsupply.net/hdmodineng.html

Frank

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all.

Well, froze me socks of yesterday, so its time to look
into heating for
my shop.

Details:

- Outdoor, above ground shop, ~75' from my house (read
closest NG
supply).
- ~16x18 feet. 8 foot ceilings *except* the center portion
(lets say
about 16x6 feet thats open straight up (for a skylight).
- All walls are insulated with R12 pink.
- Portions of the ceiling are R20 where i could, other is
R12
- Floor is _not_ insulated (ill do this next year if i
need to), wont
be easy since drywall sits on top of plywood floor, and i
cant get
underneath from outside.

My dilema:

I only have 40amps out here. God knows im kicking myself
for cheaping
out on wire when i buried it, but thats all ive got. So
any serious
electric heat means the strongest power tool i can use is
a hand saw.

What i've got right now:

An "industrial" electirc fan heater. It draws 20 amps at
220v iirc. It
outputs ~16,000 BTU's. Hooked it up yesterday, I cant see
it providing
enough heat. Plus it eats up a good chunk of power.

What Im considering:

- One of those free standing radiant propane heaters - ie
"http://www.propaneshop.com/mall/more.asp" - which is
rated at 8-42k
btu.
Question: Any comments?

- A forced air propane heater - ie
http://www.heatershop.com/propane_fo...ir_30_fas.html
Question: Comments? AND I worried about risk of explosion
since it
would be pulling in duty shop air. Valid?

OR do you have any other comments or suggestions on what
avenue I might
go for heating?

One approach I considered was wall a hung radiant propane
heater for
~1000.00 with plenty of heat (like 70k btu) - however this
bad boy
required a dedicated propane tank installed outside beside
my shop.
Since my shop is in my backyard, surrouned by hedges and
nowhere close
to the driveway for refilling the tank, this isnt really
an option (nor
is getting getting it past my wife, she would consider
that an
"eyesore").
Plus im not really up on spending 1000 bucks on a heating
system
Running NG from the house is another possibily, but my
guess is the
cost of that would be up there given the need for
professionals to do
some of the instal, etc etc.


Much thanks for your comments!

latecomer to this thread. Your planned approach (Forced air kero heater
for the
"heavy lifting" and an electric unit to keep the edge off) makes sense.
There was
alot of concern about moisture as a byproduct of combustion.

Curious what you did.. The Salamander (what we call the kero topredo
'round here)
is a sound choice for periodic use (as opposed to maintaining constant
temp). The
shop is an out-building with an uninsulated floor, then theres more
moisture coming
thru the floor (concrete?) than a kero or propane heater will throw i
bet.

So What Did you go with and how is it working?

MikeD

Final Question: People arm of water vapour with unvented heaters. Makes
sense. Im planning on bringing the de-humidifer from the basement out
to the shop for the winter - not likes its needed inside during that
time anyway. Any reason why this wouldnt work?

Way late on this thread but this might help someone. There are "basement"
dehumidifiers that specifically address the colder ambient temperatures.
Interesting sidelight is that they'll generate heat for the area as well.
Got mine at Graingers. Best if you run the drain through a hose to the
outside instead of worrying about emptying the tank.

TomNie