lol I just want to know then who has perfect relations in any family? lol

Deborah

"Alex" wrote in message
oups.com...
Deborah ,

sorry, I should have been more clear what I meant. This article implies
that if you have "perfect" relations between your family members there
is a less likelihood of need to spank.

"Ignoramus1487" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:50:06 GMT, Doug Kanter
wrote:

"Ignoramus1487" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:27:39 GMT, Doug Kanter

wrote:

"Ignoramus1487" wrote in message
...
What is wrong about leaving a 8 year old child home alone, provided
that the child is reasonably responsible.

i


Do you have kids?

Yes, one. 4.5 yo.

i


Good. I assume you have the usual parental nightmares about what could
happen to a kid in a normal, well-maintained house, regardless of how
careful you are. Start writing them down. You'll have your answer.



The reason for my question is, I stayed home alone at about the age of
7 or so, it was customary where I grew up. Nothing terribly bad
happened and it was not particularly challenging.

The only thing that I did that was wrong was melting a lot of lead
(maybe at age 11 or so), I enjoyed lead casting and my mom would not
allow me to do it (quite wisely). So I did it when no one was
home. That was not good for me, I suppose.

i


It can be somewhat more serious, Iggy. My ex BOL and his wife left the
kids one night, when the oldest was capable of keeping watch properly.
They left a pan on the kitchen stove, resulting in a kitchen fire.
Everything turned out fine, but it could have turned out far differently.
I'm not convinced you need worry about the actions of most children, but
when something goes wrong, they often are not properly equipped, either
physically or mentally, to react in the proper way at younger ages. I
think I'd be more concerned about that than anything. Imagine the guilt
one would carry if a child was lost to having been left alone when too young
to make intelligent decisions and be able to act on them.

Harold

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
snip---
Must have worked. After a few years all the back bills were paid, we
owned our own house,

Congrats on the success!

and my dad's cars were Cadillacs when Cadillac was
still a respected make.

Love that comment. What happened to Cadillac? I remember all too well
when they were respected.

Harold

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
In article et,
Jeff McCann wrote:

Chuck Sherwood wrote:
The girl's brother, sister, and mother backed up her story and in the
end she was never charged.


The really sad part is that the mother continued to let it happen.
Why didn't she have the courage to stop the father?

Why wasn't she prosecuted as an accessory to capital sexual assault, or
something similar? She apparently failed to take steps necessary to
protect her daughter from serious harm.

Jeff

Sheesh, how would I know? I was 13-14? It was (good/bad) luck and
teenage busybodyism I found out as much as I did.

(Pure speculation below)

Maybe the mother was beaten and browbeaten into outright submission.
Things were much different in the late 50s/early 60s in Steubenville.
There wasn't much "interference" with family doings in those days in
that place unless something like that happened. Even the police didn't
do much about domestic violence except maybe hit 'em with Disturbing the
Peace or somesuch.

Failed to take the steps? Certainly. But was she even psychologically
able to take the steps, given the near total domination her husband
exercised? Many women who were married in the 30s/40s were raised with
an attitude that the man of the house could do no wrong. He was
virtually a god in some societies. They didn't even have a phone and she
might have been terrified to leave the house without permission.

If the kids talked, they might have paid dearly for it. Father knows
best wasn't a Robert Young TV show to some older generation families.

I don't want to get into a ****ing match here, but that kind of attitude
prevailed far longer than we in this time might think possible.

I agree.

Harold

In article WYLgf.593066$xm3.147384@attbi_s21,
says...

"Alex" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dave,

you kids are lucky to have such parents!


Thanks. I hope you're right. The bad part about parenting is that you really
don't know how good you've done until your kids are grown!


Not necessarily. I've encountered parents who did a
bad job in either direction.

One set was criminally abusive and neglectful. We're
talking violence as entertainment. They ended up with
seriously damaged young adult offspring. And yet were
convinced that they (the parents) were just sweet and
nice, and acted confused about why those nasty,
ungrateful brats turned out so pathetic in two cases,
and hateful/negative in the other case.

The other set was weak and spoiled their kid. Zero
discipline or enforcement of rules, limits, or
consideration for others. They ended up with a vicious
sociopath/habitual-criminal adult offspring. And yet
were convinced that they (the parents) were smart and
skilled, and acted confused about why the big, bad
society/other-people had caused their sweet baby to
have such conflicts.

Parents are accountable and responsible when they
produce nice, happy, well-behaved adult offspring. But
the accountability and responsibility disappears or
shifts when the ultimate parenting result (I.e. that
young adult) turns out negatively.


--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

"Dave Lyon" wrote in message
news:YoGgf.350854$084.302303@attbi_s22...
snip----

Good parenting is lots of hard work.

Yep! It is. And the parents should be consistent, and have a back bone.

Often otherwise
loving parents give up when they've had a hard day and they have to get up
from the couch once again to discipline junior for the 5th time that
evening.

5th time because they haven't taught the kid any manners, and the kid hasn't
ever had to pay a price. Interestingly, the day comes when he/she will.
Society, in general, has little tolerance for such people. Imagine the
rude awakening when a kid pulls the usual BS as a young adult and loses a
good job because the boss doesn't have to put up with it.


I hate it when I see a child like you're referring to in the store. It
makes
me want to walk over to the kid and give him a good swat, then smack the
parent for allowing it. It's not the kids fault for being a turd. It's the
parents.

I agree. Just yesterday, in K-Mart, where there's a Little Caesars Pizza
restaurant, I watched as a kid climbed over a railing time and again,
while two of his younger siblings were running around screaming, crawling
under the tables. The mother had five young ones with her, and all she
did was apologize for their behavior, never once attempting to discipline
them. At what point in life will these kids begin to understand that
there are boundaries?

Harold

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Kenneth" wrote in message

One might hope that the adults who advocate hitting children
have the opportunity to be hit by someone five times their
own weight.

Now that would be a lesson...

Yep ... I agree. It's a damn shame there's not someone around that size to
whack all the misbehaving adults in this culture who make the rest suffer
from their lack of discipline as children.

There appears to be no shortage of these folks, either. Is that what
we've become?

Harold

"Antipodean Bucket Farmer" wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...

damn, I thought this was going to be a fun subject, like spanking semi-clad women...

Would you settle for spanking Tim May?

no

In article 7fIgf.351064$084.30926@attbi_s22,
says...


I find generalizations such as "children whose parents are violent to
them behave better" to be not grounded in any facts and is rather
supported by wishful thinking.

i


There is a lot of intelligence in your post (including the part I snipped).

However, it appears as if you think spanking and violence are synonyms. They
are not.


Terminology is quite slippery on this subject.

Apparantly, the study cited in the first post of this
thread, relied upon asking parents to describe what
they had done to their children.

Also, people generally discussing this subject have
rose-coloured glasses on regarding either their own
actions, or the actions of others.

When I was growing up, my family used the term,
"spanking" to describe behaviour like beating a child
unconscious, for fun.

OTOH, I have encountered people who interpret
legitimate reference to "abuse" as merely indicating a
little hand-swat on the bum, when the child had
misbehaved. ("You're so immature for failing to feel
gratitude...")

As long as "spanking" isn't really violence (in your
mind), then it is reasonable for an employer who is
feeling stressed-out, to pull the nearest employee's
pants down, apply a belt until the little brat is
barely even capable of crawling away. After all, that
is a "spanking," in my experience, and thus isn't
really "violence," in your mind. So nothing bad
happening at all. A perfectly legitimate way for an
authoriTAH figure to remind everyone who's boss.

Wanna volunteer for some "not"-violence?


--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

In article et,
Jeff McCann wrote:


Sheesh, how would I know? I was 13-14? It was (good/bad) luck and
teenage busybodyism I found out as much as I did.

Got it. I meant the question to be rhetorical. Sorry.

Well, it really was a sensible question by today's standards. All of the
feminist movement wasn't bad, probably not even most of it.

I don't want to get into a ****ing match here, but that kind of attitude
prevailed far longer than we in this time might think possible.

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head. But in this more
"enlightened" era, we complain a lot about irresponsible kids.
Personally, I think that the root problem is irresponsible parents. So
I draw a pretty hard line when parents allow or cause their children to
come to harm, or cause harm to others, as a result of parental
negligence. That's not to say that I have no sympathy for battered
spouses, especially in a time before recent societal changes in
perspective, but letting your teenage daughter be repeatedly raped is
just beyond the pale, and should not be tolerated in a decent society.
Nor should we tolerate spousal abuse, but at least the abused spouse is,
presumably, an adult.


You're absolutely right about abuse being beyond the pale, for sure.
Even though they were highly fictionalized, The Burning Bed and like
films weren't too far off in describing how difficult it could be to get
official response to domestic violence.

As usual in the USA, we've let the pendulum swing farther than perhaps
might be appropriate. We seem to be a nation of extremes sometimes and
often lose sight of balance. Some places, it can be a veritable gauntlet
of officialdom to take your child to the Emergency Room for an injury.

Just one data point:

My son was a real, honest-to-God, ADHD kid. Ritalin actually helped him.
Once, he fell into a footer trench for an addition I was building onto
our house and badly bruised and cut his back about at the tailbone. Poor
kid hurt like hell and I was half scared he'd really hurt himself badly.

At the ER, I was separated from him and we both were "interviewed"
_before_ they would treat him. They eventually decided we were truthful
about the accident, but it was sticky for a while.

By the time they were done "investigating," I was livid and told them,
loudly, they could either get on the stick treating him or I was going
to start abusing somebody, but they'd be the victims. _Then_ my lawyer
would start in on them. Apparently that anger satisfied them I really
didn't hurt my kid and they got about business.

The security guard they had watching me while they treated him, however,
was a bit on the touchy side.

In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
snip---
Must have worked. After a few years all the back bills were paid, we
owned our own house,

Congrats on the success!

and my dad's cars were Cadillacs when Cadillac was
still a respected make.

Love that comment. What happened to Cadillac? I remember all too well
when they were respected.

Harold

I don't know what happened, but there's just something very, very wrong
about Cadillac and Lincoln pickup trucks and SUVs.

Every time I encounter one on the road, it somehow jars my sensibilities.

Lots and lots more drugs, including the crack cocaine
epidemic starting in the late 80s.

Really? Lots more drugs than in the 60's?

In article
,
lid says...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:09:56 GMT, Doug Kanter wrote:

"Ignoramus1487" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:34:14 GMT, Doug Kanter
wrote:
For some parents, the first response to misbehaving kids is a threat of
physical punishment, followed shortly thereafter by the actual deed. Do
you
think this is something all parents should consider, or is it possible
that
some parents are more capable of using words to get kids to understand
the
rules?

First, we have to understand that not all misbehavior is the same and
that it has causes. Often "misbehavior" is completely normal behavior
of the child who thinks that he is doing the right thing. Either
exploring or imitating adults.

For example, a boy is imitating mommy cooking and accidentally breaks
a glass.

Should he be violently beaten (spanked) for that? I think that it
would be quite stupid. All he needs is to be given a plastic cup.

Second cause of misbehavior is attention seeking. The remedy is not
violence against children, but actually paying them some attention
that they deserve.

The third cause is that they are tired or stressed out, and beating
them for being tired does not seem like a smart idea to me.

The third cause is that they learn that having tantrums and such helps
them get what they want. That is because parents taught them that it
is the case. The remedy is not punishing them but being firmer about
what's not allowed.

The tantrum thing is interesting. My ex-wife, a speech pathologist, has to
deal with little kids all day long. Her technique for tantrums worked
nicely: Quickly determine if there's a good reason for it (fatigue, problem
with sibling, etc). Usually, there's not. So, handle the kid as you would if
he were having a seizure. Put him somewhere safe and let the tantrum run its
course.

Later, she came across a fascinating article which suggested (per research)
that tantrums occur to some extent in all kids because a certain part of the
brain has not yet developed. Made sense.

Interesting. I know some adults whose brains did not develop the
anti-tantrum centers...


It is a combination defence/coercion mechanism.

"You're not giving me what I want, so I will throw a
tantrum, to wear you down and get you to follow orders
and hand it over."

"You are trying to have a discussion about something
that embarrasses me, or that challenges my
entitlement-attitude. So I will throw a screaming
tantrum, to wear you down and shut you up."

Some adults rely upon a form of tantrum called,
"Whiiiiinnnnninnnggggg." Poor me, poor me, I am being
soooo victimised by your refusal-to-give, or by your
scary-reality-discussion... Whinge, whinge, whinge, to
annoy you so much as to break your resistance to my
will."

Just like little child on the floor of a supermarket,
demanding candy.

OB Survivalism: Those dorks will suck up your
time/energy/resources, and even beat down your very
will to live, if you get too involved/attached.


--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

In article ,
Ignoramus1487 wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:35:28 GMT, John Husvar wrote:
Hell, when my parents were trying to get a commission-paid trucking
terminal off the ground, I practically raised my sister. We were ten
years apart. My mother could check in several times a day because they
built the first office in the garage beside the house, but my baby
sister was my responsibility between times. (They did make sure I got
some breaks to go out and just be a kid.)

Nowadays, that would be child neglect, I suppose.

It would not be, I suppose, if you were a responsible young individual
above age when babysitting is allowed.


I was ten and she was less than a year when this all started. I'm not
sure of the "official right age" for babysitters. I was responsible
enough, apparently, for several years.

Of course, when I was at school, my mother had to take Sis to the office
with her, but I managed to take good care of her when both my parents
had to be working.

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Dave Lyon" wrote in message
news:YoGgf.350854$084.302303@attbi_s22...
snip----

Good parenting is lots of hard work.

Yep! It is. And the parents should be consistent, and have a back bone.



And that is what I think is the real answer to this debate! Kids don't need
more friends, that's not a parents job, they need parents that will stand up
and do the right thing even if it means the kids will be upset with them.
And, they need to do it every time!

Depending on the child, many different methods of parenting may work, but
you cannot substitute for being consistent.

In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:

When a child misbehaves, stick him in the corner.

Minor offense, he can sit facing outward.
Moderate offense, he stands with his nose in the corner.
Serious offense, he kneels with nose in the corner.

Only spanking offense: Leaving the corner when put in it for punishment.

How to administer spankings: 1) Never spank when your ****ed. 2) Put a
lot of drama into it, use fear and expectation more than pain. 3) Use a
softly rolled up newspaper, as it makes a lot of noise and doesn't sting
as much. The noise and the expectation of do the work for you. 4) The
newspaper trick almost always work. If not, then you have to escalate to
the bare hand. Never use belts, hotwheel tracks or such, as you can't
feel what your doing.

With any luck, after one or two spankings, you'll never have to do it
again and you can always use the corner. Of course, genetics give people
different dispositions. This technique may or may not work in your family.

I have to disagree with the bare hand, even though it's readily
available for all occasions.

Everything else is spot on.

The kinetic energy of an adult's hand and arm can do unintended injury
to the lower spine, showing little evidence at first. Although you can
feel the force that way, it's not so accurate as one might think.

A light wooden spoon and a good wrist snap, or your newspaper, works as
well with lesser risk. Turning the spoon bowl toward the butt, makes a
very impressive sound too.

Usually the drama has as much effect as the actual spanking.

I remember, too, in school the embarrassment was far worse than the
"swat."

Strabo wrote:
In OT - Spanking...Should You or Shouldn't You? on Mon, 21
Nov 2005 14:47:35 -0500, by Spehro Pefhany, we read:


On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:08:50 -0800, the renowned Stuart Grey
wrote:


Too_Many_Tools wrote:

snip

Jennifer Lansford, a research scientist from the Center for Child and
Family Policy at Duke University spearheaded the survey.


I wouldn't call anyone a scientist who uses methods that are known to
produce bogus results. They are propagandists.


Does it prove that kids that are spanked act up more than kids who are
not, or that kids who act like little monsters are more likely to get
their bums paddled?

That's the problem with statistical analysis as opposed to using the
scientifically sound experiments with control groups etc. It is a heck
of a lot cheaper and easier to use statistics, but you can only show
correlation. Correlation does not prove causality.


Feminism, the core psychology of a new world socialism, isn't
concerned with facts or causality, only control.

True enough. The agenda of the communist is to bring down the decadent
capitalist west. Ensuring that children are not raised properly is part
of that effort; destroy the culture, and the people will fall.

To that end, they would fake the data, using known bogus techniques, so
as to discourage and eventually outlaw the proper raising of children.

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

I agree. Just yesterday, in K-Mart, where there's a Little Caesars Pizza
restaurant, I watched as a kid climbed over a railing time and again,
while two of his younger siblings were running around screaming, crawling
under the tables. The mother had five young ones with her, and all she
did was apologize for their behavior, never once attempting to discipline
them. At what point in life will these kids begin to understand that
there are boundaries?

Harold

When the store owner shoots one for taking money from the cash register,
somewhere around the teen years, I suspect.

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
snip---
Must have worked. After a few years all the back bills were paid, we
owned our own house,

Congrats on the success!

and my dad's cars were Cadillacs when Cadillac was
still a respected make.

Love that comment. What happened to Cadillac? I remember all too well
when they were respected.

Harold

I don't know what happened, but there's just something very, very wrong
about Cadillac and Lincoln pickup trucks and SUVs.

Every time I encounter one on the road, it somehow jars my sensibilities.

You're not going to complain about a Rolls Royce quadratrack, too, are you?
g

I think back to the days when Cadillac made V-12 & V-16 engines and turned
out cars that stood out from the pack, both in quality and design, and
wonder where they went wrong.

Harold

"Dave Lyon" wrote in message
news:Kd_gf.352672$084.38803@attbi_s22...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Dave Lyon" wrote in message
news:YoGgf.350854$084.302303@attbi_s22...
snip----

Good parenting is lots of hard work.

Yep! It is. And the parents should be consistent, and have a back
bone.



And that is what I think is the real answer to this debate! Kids don't
need
more friends, that's not a parents job, they need parents that will stand
up
and do the right thing even if it means the kids will be upset with them.
And, they need to do it every time!

Depending on the child, many different methods of parenting may work, but
you cannot substitute for being consistent.



Exactly!

I watched with dismay as my brother didn't discipline his kids, even when
they deserved a serious spanking. Example: Ladies washing dishes at a
large gathering, his kids (two boys) outside with the garden hose, spraying
them through the open window. "Don't, son. Don't, son. Don't, son.
When three "Don't, son"s didn't work, he dropped the subject.

Sorry, that calls for some serious intervention, and consistency.

Harold

My basic rule was:

If the punishment was worse than the reasonably expected outcome of the
action,
over time, don't do it.

Example: child runs into street, spank. Child talks back, don't spank.

I'll post anecdotal results in 30 or 40 years.

Dan

--


"History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the
Party is always right."

"... by far the more important reason for the readjustment of the past is
the need to safeguard the infallibility of the Party. It is not merely that
speeches, statistics and records of every kind must be constantly brought up
to date in order to show that the predictions of the Party were in all cases
right. It is also that no change of doctrine or in political alignment can
ever be admitted. For to change one's mind, or even one's policy, is a
confession of weakness."

"It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words."

- George Orwell, "1984"

"The Americans will always do the right thing, after they've exhausted all
the alternatives."

-Winston Churchill

"Throughout history, tyrants and would-be tyrants have always claimed that
murder is justified to serve their grand vision. And they end up alienating
decent people across the globe."

- George W. Bush, introspective

"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
news

When a child misbehaves, stick him in the corner.

Minor offense, he can sit facing outward.
Moderate offense, he stands with his nose in the corner.
Serious offense, he kneels with nose in the corner.

Only spanking offense: Leaving the corner when put in it for punishment.

How to administer spankings: 1) Never spank when your ****ed. 2) Put a
lot of drama into it, use fear and expectation more than pain. 3) Use a
softly rolled up newspaper, as it makes a lot of noise and doesn't sting
as much. The noise and the expectation of do the work for you. 4) The
newspaper trick almost always work. If not, then you have to escalate to
the bare hand. Never use belts, hotwheel tracks or such, as you can't
feel what your doing.

With any luck, after one or two spankings, you'll never have to do it
again and you can always use the corner. Of course, genetics give people
different dispositions. This technique may or may not work in your family.

"Dave Lyon" wrote in message
news6_gf.593982$xm3.67367@attbi_s21...

Lots and lots more drugs, including the crack cocaine
epidemic starting in the late 80s.

Really? Lots more drugs than in the 60's?

Lots more drug CRIMES, as more and more thing were classified as crimes, and
more and more crimes were treated as "serious," not excluding FEDERAL
pressure
on local agencies with not-so-subtle threats behind them.

Watch the Johnny Cash movie, then get back to us about the effectiveness and
desire of regulating persoal behavior.

Dan


--


"History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the
Party is always right."

"... by far the more important reason for the readjustment of the past is
the need to safeguard the infallibility of the Party. It is not merely that
speeches, statistics and records of every kind must be constantly brought up
to date in order to show that the predictions of the Party were in all cases
right. It is also that no change of doctrine or in political alignment can
ever be admitted. For to change one's mind, or even one's policy, is a
confession of weakness."

"It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words."

- George Orwell, "1984"

"The Americans will always do the right thing, after they've exhausted all
the alternatives."

-Winston Churchill

"Throughout history, tyrants and would-be tyrants have always claimed that
murder is justified to serve their grand vision. And they end up alienating
decent people across the globe."

- George W. Bush, introspective

In article ,
says...

"Dave Lyon" wrote in message
news:YoGgf.350854$084.302303@attbi_s22...
snip----

Good parenting is lots of hard work.

Yep! It is. And the parents should be consistent, and have a back bone.

Often otherwise
loving parents give up when they've had a hard day and they have to get up
from the couch once again to discipline junior for the 5th time that
evening.


5th time because they haven't taught the kid any manners, and the kid hasn't
ever had to pay a price. Interestingly, the day comes when he/she will.
Society, in general, has little tolerance for such people. Imagine the
rude awakening when a kid pulls the usual BS as a young adult and loses a
good job because the boss doesn't have to put up with it.


On the other hand, there might *never* be that "rude
awakening." There are plenty of adults (including
middle-aged and over) going around with a certain
constant bewildered expression on their face. Totally
and chronically confused as to just "WHY" all us mean
nasty people refuse to give the Entitlement Freak
whatever s/he wants. And just "WHY" we refuse to
tolerate his/her obnoxious behaviour.

The Entitlement Freaks are each On A Mission to prove
that they are indeed, the centre of the universe, and
that everybody else "owes" them.

No clue at eighteen, no clue at thirty, no clue at
forty... No clue *ever*.


--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

The Entitlement Freaks are each On A Mission to prove
that they are indeed, the centre of the universe, and
that everybody else "owes" them.


How many mother-in-laws does it take to screw in a light bulb?






Just one, she holds the bulb and waits for the world to revolve around her.

Dave Lyon wrote:
The Entitlement Freaks are each On A Mission to prove
that they are indeed, the centre of the universe, and
that everybody else "owes" them.

That sounds so much like our guy MARY... aka Jethro.

"Antipodean Bucket Farmer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Dave Lyon" wrote in message
news:YoGgf.350854$084.302303@attbi_s22...
snip----

Good parenting is lots of hard work.

Yep! It is. And the parents should be consistent, and have a back
bone.

Often otherwise
loving parents give up when they've had a hard day and they have to
get up
from the couch once again to discipline junior for the 5th time that
evening.


5th time because they haven't taught the kid any manners, and the kid
hasn't
ever had to pay a price. Interestingly, the day comes when he/she
will.
Society, in general, has little tolerance for such people. Imagine the
rude awakening when a kid pulls the usual BS as a young adult and loses
a
good job because the boss doesn't have to put up with it.


On the other hand, there might *never* be that "rude
awakening." There are plenty of adults (including
middle-aged and over) going around with a certain
constant bewildered expression on their face. Totally
and chronically confused as to just "WHY" all us mean
nasty people refuse to give the Entitlement Freak
whatever s/he wants. And just "WHY" we refuse to
tolerate his/her obnoxious behaviour.

The Entitlement Freaks are each On A Mission to prove
that they are indeed, the centre of the universe, and
that everybody else "owes" them.

No clue at eighteen, no clue at thirty, no clue at
forty... No clue *ever*.


Pretty hard to improve on that!

Harold