Hi All,
I have a twelve foot length of ships timber rescued from the beach a
couple of years ago. I originally registered it with Receiver of Wreck
and presented it to my local museum but they have now given me it back.

It has been identified as end of the 18th century by the National
Maritime Museum (based on the copper/bronze pins still in place), but of
no value historically as there are no identifiable features to ident it
to vessel. The NMM cleared me to use it for carving.

I cut into it last week and found that the wood is very hard and
completely black with only a faint figuring visible which looks
something like Oak. I asked Kew Gardens if they could ident the wood if
I sent them a piece - they agreed, if I pay them £100.00 plus VAT.

Can anyone one advise how I could get this timber identified without
spending a hundred quid on it please?

IanF

"IanF" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
I have a twelve foot length of ships timber rescued from the beach a
couple of years ago. I originally registered it with Receiver of Wreck
and presented it to my local museum but they have now given me it back.
IanF
snip

It would be helpful to post a picture showing the grain from a couple of
angles on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking.
From the color and faint grain, it may be ebony (if so buy another lock for
the door!G).
I have no idea what chemical/color changes long immersion would have on any
wood, however.
Can you estimate its volume/weight?
And a Google search will reveal a few sites with photos for the purpose of
identifying wood species as well. Sorry I don't have links on this machine.
Tom

"IanF" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
I have a twelve foot length of ships timber rescued from the beach a
couple of years ago. I originally registered it with Receiver of Wreck
and presented it to my local museum but they have now given me it back.

It has been identified as end of the 18th century by the National Maritime
Museum (based on the copper/bronze pins still in place), but of no value
historically as there are no identifiable features to ident it to vessel.
The NMM cleared me to use it for carving.

I cut into it last week and found that the wood is very hard and
completely black with only a faint figuring visible which looks something
like Oak. I asked Kew Gardens if they could ident the wood if I sent them
a piece - they agreed, if I pay them £100.00 plus VAT.

Can anyone one advise how I could get this timber identified without
spending a hundred quid on it please?

About 90% that it is oak, being a favored northern/western hemisphere
shipbuilding wood. Look for the ray figure, along with the ring porous
structure, a dead giveaway.

George wrote:
"IanF" wrote in message
...

Hi All,
I have a twelve foot length of ships timber rescued from the beach a
couple of years ago. I originally registered it with Receiver of Wreck
and presented it to my local museum but they have now given me it back.

It has been identified as end of the 18th century by the National Maritime
Museum (based on the copper/bronze pins still in place), but of no value
historically as there are no identifiable features to ident it to vessel.
The NMM cleared me to use it for carving.

I cut into it last week and found that the wood is very hard and
completely black with only a faint figuring visible which looks something
like Oak. I asked Kew Gardens if they could ident the wood if I sent them
a piece - they agreed, if I pay them £100.00 plus VAT.

Can anyone one advise how I could get this timber identified without
spending a hundred quid on it please?


About 90% that it is oak, being a favored northern/western hemisphere
shipbuilding wood. Look for the ray figure, along with the ring porous
structure, a dead giveaway.


Thanks for the input. I'll take a pic of the timber over the next
couple of days and post it here.

Over time a lot of wood species turn black from oxidation and become
unidentifiable by normal means.

Contact someone at a University with a maritime archeology dept, very
likely someone there could tell you what it is for free.

As mentioned earlier it is probably oak .

Perhaps this fellow could help http://www.bcuc.ac.uk/main.asp?page=1029


IanF wrote:

George wrote:

"IanF" wrote in message
...

Hi All,
I have a twelve foot length of ships timber rescued from the beach a
couple of years ago. I originally registered it with Receiver of
Wreck and presented it to my local museum but they have now given me
it back.

It has been identified as end of the 18th century by the National
Maritime Museum (based on the copper/bronze pins still in place),
but of no value historically as there are no identifiable features
to ident it to vessel. The NMM cleared me to use it for carving.

I cut into it last week and found that the wood is very hard and
completely black with only a faint figuring visible which looks
something like Oak. I asked Kew Gardens if they could ident the
wood if I sent them a piece - they agreed, if I pay them £100.00
plus VAT.

Can anyone one advise how I could get this timber identified without
spending a hundred quid on it please?


About 90% that it is oak, being a favored northern/western hemisphere
shipbuilding wood. Look for the ray figure, along with the ring
porous structure, a dead giveaway.

Thanks for the input. I'll take a pic of the timber over the next
couple of days and post it here.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:50:48 +0100, IanF
wrote:

I asked Kew Gardens if they could ident the wood if
I sent them a piece - they agreed, if I pay them £100.00 plus VAT.

I believe that US citizens can have this done for free (up to 5 pieces /
year) by their Forest Products Lab (the people who write the big book
that's so useful). Know any Yanks ?

I'd agree that it's probably oak. Most of it was.

This is also a good time to buy a copy of Hoadley's "Identifying Wood".
_Well_ worth it, even if it is a bit too American-centric at times..

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:45:15 +0100, Andy Dingley
scribbled:

This is also a good time to buy a copy of Hoadley's "Identifying Wood".
_Well_ worth it, even if it is a bit too American-centric at times..

Andy is quite right about Hoadley. And with a microscope (or even a
good powerful hand lens) & Hoadley's instructions, you could come up
with a definite id, unless it's a weird tropical timber. Of course,
between the microscope and the book, it might set you back 100 quid.
:-)

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...ct_Woodworking

Thanks Icepick, I will mail this guy today.

Ian

Icepick wrote:
Over time a lot of wood species turn black from oxidation and become
unidentifiable by normal means.

Contact someone at a University with a maritime archeology dept, very
likely someone there could tell you what it is for free.

As mentioned earlier it is probably oak .

Perhaps this fellow could help http://www.bcuc.ac.uk/main.asp?page=1029


IanF wrote:

George wrote:

"IanF" wrote in message
...

Hi All,
I have a twelve foot length of ships timber rescued from the beach a
couple of years ago. I originally registered it with Receiver of
Wreck and presented it to my local museum but they have now given me
it back.

It has been identified as end of the 18th century by the National
Maritime Museum (based on the copper/bronze pins still in place),
but of no value historically as there are no identifiable features
to ident it to vessel. The NMM cleared me to use it for carving.

I cut into it last week and found that the wood is very hard and
completely black with only a faint figuring visible which looks
something like Oak. I asked Kew Gardens if they could ident the
wood if I sent them a piece - they agreed, if I pay them £100.00
plus VAT.

Can anyone one advise how I could get this timber identified without
spending a hundred quid on it please?


About 90% that it is oak, being a favored northern/western hemisphere
shipbuilding wood. Look for the ray figure, along with the ring
porous structure, a dead giveaway.

Thanks for the input. I'll take a pic of the timber over the next
couple of days and post it here.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:19:40 -0700, Luigi Zanasi
wrote:

Of course,
between the microscope and the book, it might set you back 100 quid.

46 quid gets you a really good illuminated Luxo magnifier / lamp from
Greenweld. I've just bought a couple to give to my outsourced glass
workers who were complaing about lack of light tiring them out..

If you must have a microscope, get a low-powered _stereo_ microsocope
(maybe x36) which will cost 40-50 quid off eBay. This is also a useful
tool for sharpening. 200-250 quid gets a Russian barrel or zoom stereo
microscope which is even more fun. A friend keeps one on his kitchen
table, which can get a bit gross when the cheeseboard comes around with
the stilton on it.

Hoadley is cheap in Bath at present (10 quid?) The remainders bookshop
on Bog Island (back of the abbey, towards the river). Garret Hack's
plane book too. I almost bought myself a second copy of both, just
because I can't resist a bargain !

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
Hoadley is cheap in Bath at present (10 quid?) The remainders bookshop
on Bog Island (back of the abbey, towards the river).

Hoadley is free at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm

Most of the illustrations are even the same.

Hi All,Thanks for the help. I've followed ICEPICK's advice and spoken
to Dr Andy Pitman at Buckinghamshire Uni. I've just despatched a piece
to him so hopefully I'll know more next week.

IanF


George wrote:
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...

Hoadley is cheap in Bath at present (10 quid?) The remainders bookshop
on Bog Island (back of the abbey, towards the river).


Hoadley is free at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm

Most of the illustrations are even the same.

Ian - Let us know what this mystery wood is .

Have you dried out the wood ? How solid is it ? Got anything in mind
for it ?



IanF wrote:

Hi All,Thanks for the help. I've followed ICEPICK's advice and spoken
to Dr Andy Pitman at Buckinghamshire Uni. I've just despatched a
piece to him so hopefully I'll know more next week.

IanF


George wrote:

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...

Hoadley is cheap in Bath at present (10 quid?) The remainders bookshop
on Bog Island (back of the abbey, towards the river).



Hoadley is free at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm

Most of the illustrations are even the same.

Hi Icepick,
I donated the timber to our local museum almost two years ago. Since
then it has sat in the Barge Workshops at Helebridge, so by the time
they gave me it back (no funding for storing/preserving) a short while
ago it was well dried out.

This is the heaviest piece of wood I have ever handled. A three foot
section. thick end 10 x 6 inches narrowing to 4 x 4, needed a careful
lift, so it is very dense. It is also hard; cutting is difficult and I
think that my Foredom will be the the tool of choice. My big problem
will be getting it down to useable sizes. Ripping a piece lengthwise
with a handsaw yesterday took an awful lot of energy and with the
foreign bodies in there, bronze pins and iron nails, I don't fancy
taking it to anyone with a big enough bandsaw to handle it.

I'm currently into stylised birds which are initially laminated from
contrasting woods before carving. I don't do individual birds at the
mo', they are all in groups doing things - trying to put a story into
each one. I sold two at our local exhibition last week so well
pleased. This wood will be particularly good as very dark and
contrasting wings, cheek patches etc.

As soon as I hear back from the Uni I will post details here, hopefully
next week as I sent the sample first class at lunchtime today.

Ian

Icepick wrote:
Ian - Let us know what this mystery wood is .

Have you dried out the wood ? How solid is it ? Got anything in mind
for it ?



IanF wrote:

Hi All,Thanks for the help. I've followed ICEPICK's advice and spoken
to Dr Andy Pitman at Buckinghamshire Uni. I've just despatched a
piece to him so hopefully I'll know more next week.

IanF


George wrote:

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...

Hoadley is cheap in Bath at present (10 quid?) The remainders bookshop
on Bog Island (back of the abbey, towards the river).




Hoadley is free at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm

Most of the illustrations are even the same.

Ian - Hmm maybe it isn't oak but some tropical wood with brass and iron
no less.... the mystery continues

If you can post a link to some of your bird carvings , I would like to
see them.

Best Wishes !

Tom " Icepick " Reiver


IanF wrote:

Hi Icepick,
I donated the timber to our local museum almost two years ago. Since
then it has sat in the Barge Workshops at Helebridge, so by the time
they gave me it back (no funding for storing/preserving) a short while
ago it was well dried out.

This is the heaviest piece of wood I have ever handled. A three foot
section. thick end 10 x 6 inches narrowing to 4 x 4, needed a careful
lift, so it is very dense. It is also hard; cutting is difficult and
I think that my Foredom will be the the tool of choice. My big
problem will be getting it down to useable sizes. Ripping a piece
lengthwise with a handsaw yesterday took an awful lot of energy and
with the foreign bodies in there, bronze pins and iron nails, I don't
fancy taking it to anyone with a big enough bandsaw to handle it.

I'm currently into stylised birds which are initially laminated from
contrasting woods before carving. I don't do individual birds at the
mo', they are all in groups doing things - trying to put a story into
each one. I sold two at our local exhibition last week so well
pleased. This wood will be particularly good as very dark and
contrasting wings, cheek patches etc.

As soon as I hear back from the Uni I will post details here,
hopefully next week as I sent the sample first class at lunchtime today.

Ian

Icepick wrote:

Ian - Let us know what this mystery wood is .

Have you dried out the wood ? How solid is it ? Got anything in mind
for it ?



IanF wrote:

Hi All,Thanks for the help. I've followed ICEPICK's advice and
spoken to Dr Andy Pitman at Buckinghamshire Uni. I've just
despatched a piece to him so hopefully I'll know more next week.

IanF


George wrote:

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...

Hoadley is cheap in Bath at present (10 quid?) The remainders
bookshop
on Bog Island (back of the abbey, towards the river).





Hoadley is free at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm

Most of the illustrations are even the same.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:57:08 +0100, IanF
wrote:

This is the heaviest piece of wood I have ever handled

Sounds like it could be turning into bog oak?

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:59:59 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

46 quid gets you a really good illuminated Luxo magnifier / lamp from
Greenweld. I've just bought a couple to give to my outsourced glass
workers who were complaing about lack of light tiring them out..

Correction to that - Greenweld are now supplying a hunk-of-junk Chinese
magnifier instead, for the same price. I'm distinctly unhappy about
this - the old ones were good, the new ones aren't worth a fraction of
this price.