Hiya Folks,
Working now on a project that isn't quite "Fine Woodworking". Building an
adobe (heavy bricks made from mud) wall. Over the gate portion, I intend
to set two or three 6"x10"x6 ft. ponderosa pine beams horizontally. On top
of these, I'll put additional adobes. Ultimately, the entire structure
excluding the wood will be stucco'ed. I intend to leave a gap on the sides
of these beams for expansion but am not entirely sure what to do for the
bricks sitting on top of it. I thought about putting a layer of asphalt
roofing material down allowing the wood to slide if you will, under the
weight of the bricks (maybe 200 lbs?) but am not sure if that will hold up
or even allow the wood to move. Would a thin sheet of plywood, masonite,
or ?? sitting on top of the beams be a better option? I'm used to allowing
for expansion with table tops, not timbers! Any help is most appreciated.
Cheers,
cc

the timbers expand the most in the direction from the heart of the tree
to the bark- that is the tree gets fatter or slimmer as it takes up or
loses water. the wood doesn't expand enough to measure end to end. you
don't need to leave room at the ends, but it will lift the adobes above
as it expands. the most likely failure you'll see is cracking of the
stucco around the lintel.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to avoid but I don't want to get too fancy with
a solution either. I may just put it in and worry about cracks later.
They make a matching caulk (to the stucco) so that may be the answer. I do
plan to leave some space around the beam for horizontal expansion but just
didn't know how to handle any vertical (not lengthwise....wasn't concerned
with that) without shoring up the adobes above the beam (more effort than I
need!). Cheers and thanks.
cc

"bridger" wrote in message
oups.com...
the timbers expand the most in the direction from the heart of the tree
to the bark- that is the tree gets fatter or slimmer as it takes up or
loses water. the wood doesn't expand enough to measure end to end. you
don't need to leave room at the ends, but it will lift the adobes above
as it expands. the most likely failure you'll see is cracking of the
stucco around the lintel.

Considered an arch instead of a flat surface? Post to alt.home.repair
also.

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 08:36:31 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:

Hiya Folks,
Working now on a project that isn't quite "Fine Woodworking". Building an
adobe (heavy bricks made from mud) wall. Over the gate portion, I intend
to set two or three 6"x10"x6 ft. ponderosa pine beams horizontally. On top
of these, I'll put additional adobes. Ultimately, the entire structure
excluding the wood will be stucco'ed. I intend to leave a gap on the sides
of these beams for expansion but am not entirely sure what to do for the
bricks sitting on top of it. I thought about putting a layer of asphalt
roofing material down allowing the wood to slide if you will, under the
weight of the bricks (maybe 200 lbs?) but am not sure if that will hold up
or even allow the wood to move. Would a thin sheet of plywood, masonite,
or ?? sitting on top of the beams be a better option? I'm used to allowing
for expansion with table tops, not timbers! Any help is most appreciated.
Cheers,
cc

We considered an arch and the wife decided against it. Everyone's got an
arch on our street I guess. I was originally planning to do a full arch
with only adobe but then this idea came up. I probably won't post to the
home.repair group as I'm doing the work today. Just thought I'd ping the
wood experts around here as to how to minimize the effects of
shrinkage/expansion in this application.
Cheers,
cc

"nospambob" wrote in message
...
Considered an arch instead of a flat surface? Post to alt.home.repair
also.

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 08:36:31 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:

Hiya Folks,
Working now on a project that isn't quite "Fine Woodworking". Building
an
adobe (heavy bricks made from mud) wall. Over the gate portion, I intend
to set two or three 6"x10"x6 ft. ponderosa pine beams horizontally. On
top
of these, I'll put additional adobes. Ultimately, the entire structure
excluding the wood will be stucco'ed. I intend to leave a gap on the
sides
of these beams for expansion but am not entirely sure what to do for the
bricks sitting on top of it. I thought about putting a layer of asphalt
roofing material down allowing the wood to slide if you will, under the
weight of the bricks (maybe 200 lbs?) but am not sure if that will hold up
or even allow the wood to move. Would a thin sheet of plywood, masonite,
or ?? sitting on top of the beams be a better option? I'm used to
allowing
for expansion with table tops, not timbers! Any help is most
appreciated.
Cheers,
cc

My house is almost 150 years old. The construction is brick with massive oak
lintles. There are cracks above every single one. This leads me to the
concusion that wood lintles supporting masonry is just a bad idea. Timbers
tend to be pretty wet, not like the nice kiln dried hardwoods that you know
and love in the shop. The will shrink. That wil leave the adobe unsupported.

If the lintel is decorative and there is something else holding up the
stones above, the there will just be a little seam above the lintle to fill.
That could work.

Cheers,

Steve - who thinks there is a reason why everybody else has an adobe arch.
"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...
We considered an arch and the wife decided against it. Everyone's got an
arch on our street I guess. I was originally planning to do a full arch
with only adobe but then this idea came up. I probably won't post to the
home.repair group as I'm doing the work today. Just thought I'd ping the
wood experts around here as to how to minimize the effects of
shrinkage/expansion in this application.
Cheers,
cc

"nospambob" wrote in message
...
Considered an arch instead of a flat surface? Post to alt.home.repair
also.

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 08:36:31 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:

Hiya Folks,
Working now on a project that isn't quite "Fine Woodworking". Building
an
adobe (heavy bricks made from mud) wall. Over the gate portion, I
intend
to set two or three 6"x10"x6 ft. ponderosa pine beams horizontally. On
top
of these, I'll put additional adobes. Ultimately, the entire structure
excluding the wood will be stucco'ed. I intend to leave a gap on the
sides
of these beams for expansion but am not entirely sure what to do for the
bricks sitting on top of it. I thought about putting a layer of
asphalt
roofing material down allowing the wood to slide if you will, under the
weight of the bricks (maybe 200 lbs?) but am not sure if that will hold
up
or even allow the wood to move. Would a thin sheet of plywood,
masonite,
or ?? sitting on top of the beams be a better option? I'm used to
allowing
for expansion with table tops, not timbers! Any help is most
appreciated.
Cheers,
cc

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 08:36:31 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:

Hiya Folks,
Working now on a project that isn't quite "Fine Woodworking". Building an
adobe (heavy bricks made from mud) wall. Over the gate portion, I intend
to set two or three 6"x10"x6 ft. ponderosa pine beams horizontally. On top
of these, I'll put additional adobes. Ultimately, the entire structure
excluding the wood will be stucco'ed. I intend to leave a gap on the sides
of these beams for expansion but am not entirely sure what to do for the
bricks sitting on top of it. I thought about putting a layer of asphalt
roofing material down allowing the wood to slide if you will, under the
weight of the bricks (maybe 200 lbs?) but am not sure if that will hold up
or even allow the wood to move. Would a thin sheet of plywood, masonite,
or ?? sitting on top of the beams be a better option? I'm used to allowing
for expansion with table tops, not timbers! Any help is most appreciated.
Cheers,
cc




If I understand you correctly, the wood will be free to act
independently of the stuccoed portions.

If the adobes above are not tied into anything else, they will simply
ride up and down on the pine as it gains and loses moisture.

My only concern would be to tie the adobes to the top of the beam, so
that they are not just a monolithic entity waiting to bean some
unsuspecting visitor to the hacienda.

I'm from the East Coast, and thus know zip about adobes, but, if they
were bricks, I'd tie them in with masonry ties, and not run them too
high.

Masonry should be separated from wood, and in this case, you will need
to use something that will be self sealing, so that the fasteners that
tie the masonry ties into the wood will not pass water.

Around here, I'd use Ice and Water Shield (a roofing product), or a
strip of EPDM roofing.

If you cut a quirk along the top of the beam, you could use plastic
sheet (under the other barrier) as an additional membrane between
the masonry and the wood ), and this could be left large enough to
wrap and protect the wood during stuccoing.

When the stucco is set up, you can cut the plastic inside the shadow
line of the quirk, and, since your other membrane will have already
been cut to an exact fit, you should have a decent structure, and
clean wood.



Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)

Yeah, every house around here has these same beams, lintels, etc... and
every one has little cracks around it. Especially indoors. It's
unfortunately a fact of life for us here as that is the standard
construction. I put my bricks around the beams with space and kept morter
out as best I could. I'll come back with caulking after the stucco and
we'll see what happens. And yes, you're right about the wetness of the
beams. They pretty much cut them right there and hand them to you with no
drying whatsoever.
Cheers,
cc

ps. Not everyone has an adobe arch, but a lot do. Many have exactly what
I'm doing

"C & S" wrote in message
...
My house is almost 150 years old. The construction is brick with massive
oak
lintles. There are cracks above every single one. This leads me to the
concusion that wood lintles supporting masonry is just a bad idea.
Timbers
tend to be pretty wet, not like the nice kiln dried hardwoods that you
know
and love in the shop. The will shrink. That wil leave the adobe
unsupported.

If the lintel is decorative and there is something else holding up the
stones above, the there will just be a little seam above the lintle to
fill.
That could work.

Cheers,

Steve - who thinks there is a reason why everybody else has an adobe arch.

"James \"Cubby\" Culbertson" wrote in
:

Hiya Folks,
Working now on a project that isn't quite "Fine Woodworking".
Building an adobe (heavy bricks made from mud) wall. Over the gate
portion, I intend to set two or three 6"x10"x6 ft. ponderosa pine
beams horizontally. On top of these, I'll put additional adobes.
Ultimately, the entire structure excluding the wood will be stucco'ed.

When working in a traditional material and style, there is generally a
reason that those methods developed as they did. An arch was put in
because it worked, not because it met some designer's need to differ.

Wood and mud and straw and stucco are going to change with moisture.
Frankly, so do bricks and mortar, or steel, concrete and glass.

When we mess with the wisdom of our fathers and grandfathers, we risk
learning lessons they already paid for, sometimes dearly.

I didn't mean for that to sound as though I was preaching, but I don't know
quite how to edit it differently.

Patriarch

Thanks folks,
The interesting thing, and I agree with Patriarch about not messing with
proven methods, is what I'm doing is no different than what they've been
doing for hundreds of years. Yes, there are arches out of nothing but adobe
but most structures all contain wood and as far as I can tell talking with
the adoberos around here, they just set the adobes directly on the wood with
morter (and everything's tied together with morter as well I might add, ie.
no floating blocks). I'm gonna go ahead and add a membrane as Tom
mentioned as I don't see how it could hurt.
Cheers,
cc

"Patriarch" wrote in message
. 97.136...
"James \"Cubby\" Culbertson" wrote in
:

Hiya Folks,
Working now on a project that isn't quite "Fine Woodworking".
Building an adobe (heavy bricks made from mud) wall. Over the gate
portion, I intend to set two or three 6"x10"x6 ft. ponderosa pine
beams horizontally. On top of these, I'll put additional adobes.
Ultimately, the entire structure excluding the wood will be stucco'ed.

When working in a traditional material and style, there is generally a
reason that those methods developed as they did. An arch was put in
because it worked, not because it met some designer's need to differ.

Wood and mud and straw and stucco are going to change with moisture.
Frankly, so do bricks and mortar, or steel, concrete and glass.

When we mess with the wisdom of our fathers and grandfathers, we risk
learning lessons they already paid for, sometimes dearly.

I didn't mean for that to sound as though I was preaching, but I don't
know
quite how to edit it differently.

Patriarch