Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
varnish/oil homebrew mix turned to gel
About 9 months ago I mixed a small batch of 2/3 varnish (Behlen's rock
hard) and 1/3 pure tung oil. I used it a couple of times this past week and it worked fine -- dried fine and in the can looked like it did when I mixed it back in November. When I opened the can yesterday to put on a third coat, the mix had turned to the consistency of jello. It's in a small (pint), new paint can from a paint store. The can is about 1/4 full. Any ideas what's happening? Is this normal? The seperate containers of varnish and tung oil that I mixed this from seem to be fine. Neither one of them has turned to gel. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
The can is not full enough.
While the can is 1/4 full of varnish it is 3/4 full of air. The oxygen in that air is beginning to cure the varnish. To avoid jello do one of the following. 1. Pour unused finish into a smaller container 2. Displace air with marbles. 3. Displace the air with Bloxygen (TM) or some other heavier-than-air non-reactive gas and cap quickly. -Steve "Big Rob" wrote in message oups.com... About 9 months ago I mixed a small batch of 2/3 varnish (Behlen's rock hard) and 1/3 pure tung oil. I used it a couple of times this past week and it worked fine -- dried fine and in the can looked like it did when I mixed it back in November. When I opened the can yesterday to put on a third coat, the mix had turned to the consistency of jello. It's in a small (pint), new paint can from a paint store. The can is about 1/4 full. Any ideas what's happening? Is this normal? The seperate containers of varnish and tung oil that I mixed this from seem to be fine. Neither one of them has turned to gel. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
In article .com,
"Big Rob" wrote: Any ideas what's happening? Is this normal? The seperate containers of varnish and tung oil that I mixed this from seem to be fine. Neither one of them has turned to gel. Yes it's totally normal. Enough oxygen or whatnot from the atmosphere entered the container to overcome the high solvent vapors above the liquid and set off curing. I think you're lucky you got 9 months out of it - but then you must not have opened the container much plus it was well sealed. I've had good success using the jello varnish as a rubbing finish as long as it spreads out under your rag pressure. Apply and wipe off just as you would if it were more liquid-y. You can buy something called Bloxygen which you spray into the container just before capping which is supposed to eliminate the frequency this occurs. You can also buy a small tank of nitrogen to apply similarly. I just mix small oil and varnish batches and accept the jello state when it happens. The real heartbreak is when you go to open your 3/4 full can of Rockhard and it IS. -- Owen Lowe The Fly-by-Night Copper Company __________ "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Corporate States of America and to the Republicans for which it stands, one nation, under debt, easily divisible, with liberty and justice for oil." - Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05 |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
In article , C & S
wrote: To avoid jello do one of the following. 1. Pour unused finish into a smaller container 2. Displace air with marbles. 3. Displace the air with Bloxygen (TM) or some other heavier-than-air non-reactive gas and cap quickly. 4. Buy a few of these... http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,190,44133&ap= 1 djb -- ~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~ ------------------------------------------------------ One site: http://www.balderstone.ca The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:36:12 -0600, Dave Balderstone
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,190,44133&ap= 1 These are neat! Wish they made some that startted at 1/4 L and went down! |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
In article , Tom Banes
wrote: These are neat! Wish they made some that startted at 1/4 L and went down! They do have little-bitty ones... http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,110,42967&ap= 1 djb -- ~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~ ------------------------------------------------------ One site: http://www.balderstone.ca The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Tom Banes writes:
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:36:12 -0600, Dave Balderstone http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,190,44133&ap= 1 These are neat! Wish they made some that startted at 1/4 L and went down! Look in a store that sells photographic lab equipment, most of the chemicals used for processing film also don't like oxygen, so collapsible bottles are a common thing there, and available also in smallish sizes. -- Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869 Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23 |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message ... Look in a store that sells photographic lab equipment, most of the chemicals used for processing film also don't like oxygen, so collapsible bottles are a common thing there, and available also in smallish sizes. What you recommend is as common as vinyl recordings and typewriters here. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
"George" George@least writes:
"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message ... Look in a store that sells photographic lab equipment, most of the chemicals used for processing film also don't like oxygen, so collapsible bottles are a common thing there, and available also in smallish sizes. What you recommend is as common as vinyl recordings and typewriters here. Ok, I rephrase: ...collapsible bottles once were a commen thing there... One would not think at first that the digital camera revoluton has an impact on wood finishing, but as one craft dies out it oulls others also into the grave. -- Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869 Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23 |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
I have chased this problem for decades trying to save varnish from one year
to another. I have tried collaposable bottles (the problem is the threads), freon, propane, marbles (what a mess). I am sold on punching (I use an awl) two small holes in the lid of the can, pouring through the holes and resealing with a #10 sheet metal screw. Inverting the can briefly coats the end of the screw with varnish and makes a good seal. I am convinced that air enters the can through the lid seal after repeated openings. The screw trick works for varnish because stirring or mixing is not needed. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks Dave, I like this idea and having battled the same problem for years,
I'm going to try it. In fact, I think I'll try pouring out the quart size can into pint or 1/2 pint cans, using the screw trick as I open each. 1/2 pint cans are like single use sizes. Glenn "Dave W" wrote in message ... I have chased this problem for decades trying to save varnish from one year to another. I have tried collaposable bottles (the problem is the threads), freon, propane, marbles (what a mess). I am sold on punching (I use an awl) two small holes in the lid of the can, pouring through the holes and resealing with a #10 sheet metal screw. Inverting the can briefly coats the end of the screw with varnish and makes a good seal. I am convinced that air enters the can through the lid seal after repeated openings. The screw trick works for varnish because stirring or mixing is not needed. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message news You can buy something called Bloxygen which you spray into the container just before capping which is supposed to eliminate the frequency this occurs. You can also buy a small tank of nitrogen to apply similarly. You can also just take a deep breath, hold it for a few seconds and then breathe into the container. Used to *always* do that with photo developers...the CO2 in your breath is heavier than air and will settle down forming a "cap" over the liquid to be protected. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
In article OhLHe.27868$Tk6.2679@trnddc02,
"dadiOH" wrote: You can also just take a deep breath, hold it for a few seconds and then breathe into the container. Used to *always* do that with photo developers...the CO2 in your breath is heavier than air and will settle down forming a "cap" over the liquid to be protected. I had heard of this method but also read a reply that exhaled breath still has a lot of oxygen in it. -- Owen Lowe The Fly-by-Night Copper Company __________ "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Corporate States of America and to the Republicans for which it stands, one nation, under debt, easily divisible, with liberty and justice for oil." - Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05 |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message news In article OhLHe.27868$Tk6.2679@trnddc02, "dadiOH" wrote: You can also just take a deep breath, hold it for a few seconds and then breathe into the container. Used to *always* do that with photo developers...the CO2 in your breath is heavier than air and will settle down forming a "cap" over the liquid to be protected. I had heard of this method but also read a reply that exhaled breath still has a lot of oxygen in it. Yes but the CO2 is heavier and settles. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
"dadiOH" wrote in message news:9%NHe.4468$4e6.2820@trnddc04... "Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message news In article OhLHe.27868$Tk6.2679@trnddc02, "dadiOH" wrote: You can also just take a deep breath, hold it for a few seconds and then breathe into the container. Used to *always* do that with photo developers...the CO2 in your breath is heavier than air and will settle down forming a "cap" over the liquid to be protected. I had heard of this method but also read a reply that exhaled breath still has a lot of oxygen in it. Yes but the CO2 is heavier and settles. Sorry, no time to settle, and your breath is about 17% oxygen on exhalation, versus 21 on inhalation, if you believe the physiology folks. Carbon dioxide is maybe 3%, so you can see there's going to be a big difference. Then there's the water vapor, which isn't a good thing either. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Pure CO2 is heavier, but over time WILL mix with whatever
gas is also there, otherwise we would have a layer of close to 100% CO2 right at ground level. Key point is to reduce the amount of oxygen that can get to the homebrew. I weld, so I have a big tank of ARGON and just blow some 99+% argon into the cans and it keeps things from oxidzing GREAT. High concentrations of ANY relatively inert will work, but exhaled breath is NOT going to work - still something like 16% oxygen in that exhaled breath and it WILL cause oxidation, just a tad slower than room air John On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:28:40 -0500, Australopithecus scobis wrote: On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:24:21 +0000, dadiOH wrote: I had heard of this method but also read a reply that exhaled breath still has a lot of oxygen in it. Yes but the CO2 is heavier and settles. Bumper sticker: Honk if you passed Thermo |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
wrote: I weld, so I have a big tank of ARGON and just blow some 99+% argon into the cans and it keeps things from oxidzing GREAT. In the small containers I have, I just crack the torch open and blow propane into it. So far so good. -- ~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~ ------------------------------------------------------ One site: http://www.balderstone.ca The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
dadioh,
It is true that exhaled air has more carbon dioxide than air does. It is true that carbon dioxide is heavier than the other constituents of air. BUT, if you expect the carbon dioxide to "settle out" you will have to wait a long time. Brownian motion and other factors keep the gases well mixed. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
DAGS kinetic theory of gases; Google says there are 319000 hits.
Steve "Dave W" wrote in message ... dadioh, It is true that exhaled air has more carbon dioxide than air does. It is true that carbon dioxide is heavier than the other constituents of air. BUT, if you expect the carbon dioxide to "settle out" you will have to wait a long time. Brownian motion and other factors keep the gases well mixed. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Round Turned Butcher blocks...any secrets? | Woodworking | |||
RCD tripping as light is turned off | UK diy | |||
RCA D52W20 Always asks ENGLISH? When Turned on | Electronics Repair | |||
avoiding warp in wet turned bowls | Woodturning | |||
Joint question - Using turned legs | Woodworking |