varnish/oil homebrew mix turned to gel
 

About 9 months ago I mixed a small batch of 2/3 varnish (Behlen's rock
hard) and 1/3 pure tung oil. I used it a couple of times this past
week and it worked fine -- dried fine and in the can looked like it did
when I mixed it back in November. When I opened the can yesterday to
put on a third coat, the mix had turned to the consistency of jello.
It's in a small (pint), new paint can from a paint store. The can is
about 1/4 full.

Any ideas what's happening? Is this normal? The seperate containers
of varnish and tung oil that I mixed this from seem to be fine.
Neither one of them has turned to gel.

The can is not full enough.

While the can is 1/4 full of varnish it is 3/4 full of air. The oxygen in
that air is beginning to cure the varnish.

To avoid jello do one of the following.

1. Pour unused finish into a smaller container
2. Displace air with marbles.
3. Displace the air with Bloxygen (TM) or some other heavier-than-air
non-reactive gas and cap quickly.

-Steve


"Big Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
About 9 months ago I mixed a small batch of 2/3 varnish (Behlen's rock
hard) and 1/3 pure tung oil. I used it a couple of times this past
week and it worked fine -- dried fine and in the can looked like it did
when I mixed it back in November. When I opened the can yesterday to
put on a third coat, the mix had turned to the consistency of jello.
It's in a small (pint), new paint can from a paint store. The can is
about 1/4 full.

Any ideas what's happening? Is this normal? The seperate containers
of varnish and tung oil that I mixed this from seem to be fine.
Neither one of them has turned to gel.

In article .com,
"Big Rob" wrote:

Any ideas what's happening? Is this normal? The seperate containers
of varnish and tung oil that I mixed this from seem to be fine.
Neither one of them has turned to gel.

Yes it's totally normal. Enough oxygen or whatnot from the atmosphere
entered the container to overcome the high solvent vapors above the
liquid and set off curing. I think you're lucky you got 9 months out of
it - but then you must not have opened the container much plus it was
well sealed. I've had good success using the jello varnish as a rubbing
finish as long as it spreads out under your rag pressure. Apply and wipe
off just as you would if it were more liquid-y.

You can buy something called Bloxygen which you spray into the container
just before capping which is supposed to eliminate the frequency this
occurs. You can also buy a small tank of nitrogen to apply similarly. I
just mix small oil and varnish batches and accept the jello state when
it happens.

The real heartbreak is when you go to open your 3/4 full can of Rockhard
and it IS.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

In article , C & S
wrote:

To avoid jello do one of the following.

1. Pour unused finish into a smaller container
2. Displace air with marbles.
3. Displace the air with Bloxygen (TM) or some other heavier-than-air
non-reactive gas and cap quickly.

4. Buy a few of these...
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,190,44133&ap=
1

djb

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: http://www.balderstone.ca
The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:36:12 -0600, Dave Balderstone
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,190,44133&ap=
1


These are neat! Wish they made some that startted at 1/4 L and went
down!

In article , Tom Banes
wrote:

These are neat! Wish they made some that startted at 1/4 L and went
down!

They do have little-bitty ones...
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,110,42967&ap=
1

djb

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: http://www.balderstone.ca
The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com

Tom Banes writes:

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:36:12 -0600, Dave Balderstone
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,190,44133&ap=
1


These are neat! Wish they made some that startted at 1/4 L and went
down!

Look in a store that sells photographic lab equipment, most of the
chemicals used for processing film also don't like oxygen, so
collapsible bottles are a common thing there, and available also in
smallish sizes.

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...

Look in a store that sells photographic lab equipment, most of the
chemicals used for processing film also don't like oxygen, so
collapsible bottles are a common thing there, and available also in
smallish sizes.


What you recommend is as common as vinyl recordings and typewriters here.

"George" George@least writes:

"Juergen Hannappel" wrote in message
...

Look in a store that sells photographic lab equipment, most of the
chemicals used for processing film also don't like oxygen, so
collapsible bottles are a common thing there, and available also in
smallish sizes.


What you recommend is as common as vinyl recordings and typewriters here.

Ok, I rephrase: ...collapsible bottles once were a commen thing
there... One would not think at first that the digital camera
revoluton has an impact on wood finishing, but as one craft dies out
it oulls others also into the grave.

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

I have chased this problem for decades trying to save varnish from one year
to another. I have tried collaposable bottles (the problem is the threads),
freon, propane, marbles (what a mess). I am sold on punching (I use an awl)
two small holes in the lid of the can, pouring through the holes and
resealing with a #10 sheet metal screw. Inverting the can briefly coats the
end of the screw with varnish and makes a good seal. I am convinced that
air enters the can through the lid seal after repeated openings. The screw
trick works for varnish because stirring or mixing is not needed.

Thanks Dave, I like this idea and having battled the same problem for years,
I'm going to try it.

In fact, I think I'll try pouring out the quart size can into pint or 1/2
pint cans, using the screw trick as I open each. 1/2 pint cans are like
single use sizes.

Glenn


"Dave W" wrote in message
...
I have chased this problem for decades trying to save varnish from one year
to another. I have tried collaposable bottles (the problem is the
threads), freon, propane, marbles (what a mess). I am sold on punching (I
use an awl) two small holes in the lid of the can, pouring through the
holes and resealing with a #10 sheet metal screw. Inverting the can
briefly coats the end of the screw with varnish and makes a good seal. I
am convinced that air enters the can through the lid seal after repeated
openings. The screw trick works for varnish because stirring or mixing is
not needed.

"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message
...
You can buy something called Bloxygen which you spray into the
container
just before capping which is supposed to eliminate the frequency this
occurs. You can also buy a small tank of nitrogen to apply similarly.

You can also just take a deep breath, hold it for a few seconds and then
breathe into the container. Used to *always* do that with photo
developers...the CO2 in your breath is heavier than air and will settle
down forming a "cap" over the liquid to be protected.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In article OhLHe.27868$Tk6.2679@trnddc02,
"dadiOH" wrote:

You can also just take a deep breath, hold it for a few seconds and then
breathe into the container. Used to *always* do that with photo
developers...the CO2 in your breath is heavier than air and will settle
down forming a "cap" over the liquid to be protected.

I had heard of this method but also read a reply that exhaled breath
still has a lot of oxygen in it.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message
...
In article OhLHe.27868$Tk6.2679@trnddc02,
"dadiOH" wrote:

You can also just take a deep breath, hold it for a few seconds and
then
breathe into the container. Used to *always* do that with photo
developers...the CO2 in your breath is heavier than air and will
settle
down forming a "cap" over the liquid to be protected.

I had heard of this method but also read a reply that exhaled breath
still has a lot of oxygen in it.

Yes but the CO2 is heavier and settles.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"dadiOH" wrote in message
news:9%NHe.4468$4e6.2820@trnddc04...
"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message
...
In article OhLHe.27868$Tk6.2679@trnddc02,
"dadiOH" wrote:

You can also just take a deep breath, hold it for a few seconds and
then
breathe into the container. Used to *always* do that with photo
developers...the CO2 in your breath is heavier than air and will
settle
down forming a "cap" over the liquid to be protected.

I had heard of this method but also read a reply that exhaled breath
still has a lot of oxygen in it.

Yes but the CO2 is heavier and settles.

Sorry, no time to settle, and your breath is about 17% oxygen on exhalation,
versus 21 on inhalation, if you believe the physiology folks. Carbon
dioxide is maybe 3%, so you can see there's going to be a big difference.

Then there's the water vapor, which isn't a good thing either.

Pure CO2 is heavier, but over time WILL mix with whatever
gas is also there, otherwise we would have a layer of close to
100% CO2 right at ground level. Key point is to reduce the amount of
oxygen that can get to the homebrew. I weld, so I have a big tank of
ARGON and just blow some 99+% argon into the cans and it keeps things
from oxidzing GREAT. High concentrations of ANY relatively inert will
work, but exhaled breath is NOT going to work - still something like
16% oxygen in that exhaled breath and it WILL cause oxidation, just a
tad slower than room air

John

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:28:40 -0500, Australopithecus scobis
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:24:21 +0000, dadiOH wrote:


I had heard of this method but also read a reply that exhaled breath
still has a lot of oxygen in it.

Yes but the CO2 is heavier and settles.


Bumper sticker: Honk if you passed Thermo

In article ,
wrote:

I weld, so I have a big tank of
ARGON and just blow some 99+% argon into the cans and it keeps things
from oxidzing GREAT.

In the small containers I have, I just crack the torch open and blow
propane into it. So far so good.

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: http://www.balderstone.ca
The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com

dadioh,
It is true that exhaled air has more carbon dioxide than air does. It
is true that carbon dioxide is heavier than the other constituents of air.
BUT, if you expect the carbon dioxide to "settle out" you will have to wait
a long time. Brownian motion and other factors keep the gases well mixed.

DAGS kinetic theory of gases; Google says there are 319000 hits.

Steve

"Dave W" wrote in message
...
dadioh,
It is true that exhaled air has more carbon dioxide than air does. It
is true that carbon dioxide is heavier than the other constituents of air.
BUT, if you expect the carbon dioxide to "settle out" you will have to
wait a long time. Brownian motion and other factors keep the gases well
mixed.