"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message

Why do you respond to this? How about removing rec.woodworking from the
sent-to list?

"Sean Monaghan" wrote in message

Please don't feed this obvious troll. The only thing this has to do
with woodworking is what he does on Saturday night.

Excuse me, but the woodworking group was added because I am looking to
hear opinions from a diverse range of individuals. I do lurk here, at
times, and I respect the opinions of the ww regulars.

NO, you're damn well not excused. Following your sentiment, it would be
appropriate to make this newsgroup as the catch all for messages from all
80,000 usenet news groups? Fine, you respect many of the members here, but
that doesn't for one minute mean that your question belongs here. There's
enough crap here from threads that migrate to off topic conversations.
There's absolutely no reason to intentionally add to it.

AMEN, Upscale....

AMEN. Their are plenty of coffee shop style groups that would find
this topic fascinating. There is enough off topic baloney here
already.

Robert

On 07 Jul 2005 04:15:11 GMT, "Sean Monaghan"
wrote:

The issue of baptism has recently been raised in my home. My
girlfriend is a non-practicing Anglican; I was raised Roman Catholic,
but I lean toward agnosticism.

So, non-practicing and agnostic. Why worry about baptism, then?

We are thinking about baptising our first child, but we aren't sure of
the appropriate age. Some people believe that infant baptism "does not
count" because the child is too young to understand what is happening.
Others believe that infant basptism is a *must*.

My church does not allow for infant baptisms- we had some heated
debate over it, but the idea that a person must choose to become a
member of a spiritual community won the day. So, the earilest
occasion for baptism is when a child reaches puberty. Of course,
other faiths will disagree- and often stridently!

Also - does it matter in what church the baptism occurs? If we baptise
the child in, say, an Anglican church, would the baptism be recognised
by other Christian disciplines?

AFAIK, baptism is specific to denomination, but there are an awful lot
of faiths around, so that's going to depend on where you're at, and
who you're talking to.

For your consideration, the way I have always considered baptism and
confirmation (having assisted in dozens of them as a deacon) is as
follows: A baptism is a spiritual "introduction" to a community of
like-minded individuals. It signifies an intent (but not an
obligation) on the person being baptised to study the morals and dogma
of that community, but forms no permenent bond between the baptized
and the church that performs it. The sponsor of the baptised
(god-parent(s)?) is agreeing to lend spiritual guidance to the
baptised and aid them in coming to confirmation if and when they are
asked to do so. My faith (Gnostic, as opposed to A-gnostic) doesn't
allow for the doctrine of orignal sin, but if yours does, you also
need to consider the idea of purifcation that attends the ritual.
According to most Christian theologies, a person cannot enter heaven
until they are baptised.

Confirmation (and that's a long way off for your child) is when a
person is consecrated in a particular faith, and fully and truly
becomes a member of that church.

So, if it makes you feel better- why not? If you're not religious, it
can't hurt anything, but I fail to see the point in it. Might be
better to let you children decide for themselves when they come of age
in that case.

Thanks, in advance.

In article ,
"Upscale" wrote:

"Sean Monaghan" wrote in message

Please don't feed this obvious troll. The only thing this has to do
with woodworking is what he does on Saturday night.

Excuse me, but the woodworking group was added because I am looking to
hear opinions from a diverse range of individuals. I do lurk here, at
times, and I respect the opinions of the ww regulars.

NO, you're damn well not excused.
[snipperified]
There's
enough crap here from threads that migrate to off topic conversations.
There's absolutely no reason to intentionally add to it.

Like I was trying to make up my mind between a single-cup espresso maker
and a French press. Don't get me wrong, I really do like my new DVD
player, but I miss the whirring of my rewinder. I mean, it's not as if I
go to the religio-politico-alt-****-ups newsgroups in order to find the
answer to my age-old question: "Where *IS* that smell coming from?"


IOW.., I agree with Upscale.

"Prometheus" wrote:

On 07 Jul 2005 04:15:11 GMT, "Sean Monaghan"
wrote:

The issue of baptism has recently been raised in my home. My
girlfriend is a non-practicing Anglican; I was raised Roman Catholic,
but I lean toward agnosticism.

So, non-practicing and agnostic.

He's an atheist and he's full of hot air.

Why worry about baptism, then?

He isn't WORRIED about it. He's making a mockery out of Christianity.
Sadly enough, the children suffer in cases like this because of immoral
parents.

VK

On 07 Jul 2005 04:15:11 GMT, "Sean Monaghan" wrote:

The issue of baptism has recently been raised in my home.

hmm... I only raise kids, veggies, dust and hell in mine...

I think most folks true baptism is their first experience using a good power
tool.. YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 07:57:45 -0400, Robatoy wrote:

In article ,
"Upscale" wrote:

"Sean Monaghan" wrote in message

Please don't feed this obvious troll. The only thing this has to do
with woodworking is what he does on Saturday night.

Excuse me, but the woodworking group was added because I am looking to
hear opinions from a diverse range of individuals. I do lurk here, at
times, and I respect the opinions of the ww regulars.

NO, you're damn well not excused.
[snipperified]
There's
enough crap here from threads that migrate to off topic conversations.
There's absolutely no reason to intentionally add to it.

Like I was trying to make up my mind between a single-cup espresso maker
and a French press. Don't get me wrong, I really do like my new DVD
player, but I miss the whirring of my rewinder. I mean, it's not as if I
go to the religio-politico-alt-****-ups newsgroups in order to find the
answer to my age-old question: "Where *IS* that smell coming from?"


IOW.., I agree with Upscale.

Robotoy.....you got a DVD rewinder that doesn't make noise? COOL!

Would/wood making really thin shavings with a plane or chisel qualify as a
religious experience??

Do people that cross post stuff to unrelated groups have to wait until they go
to hell, or are they punished in life here?



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Sean Monaghan" wrote:

We are thinking about baptising our first child, but we aren't sure of
the appropriate age.

I assume by "baptising" you're talking about buying a child his or her
own set of woodworking tools. I believe the appropriate age is when
the child is able to put a good, serviceable edge on a chisel or plane
blade. Those children who are baptised as infants never learn to
properly care for their tools, so I believe you would do a diservice
to the child by having a premature baptism.

Now, the more important question: What tools are appropriate for a
baptism? I believe this is the area where you will find a schism
between the major religions. Especially fractious is the ongoing
debate about the tools of choice for Jewish carpenters. The church of
Norm believes that the church has a right to great wealth and they
condone its use for outfitting the shop. Whereas there are those who
feel that Jesus didn't even own the simple hand-tools that he worked
with. This latter group preaches the simplicity of non-corded tools,
but if you examine their accounts with the Temples of L(e/i)e (Valley
or Neilson), you will find that Mammon is not far from their practice,
if far from their beliefs. Then too, there are the pagans who will
insist that the wood must be the guide; the tools being mere artifacts
of the way.

Woodorkers, please help this wayward soul, and provide suggestions for
the baptismal right.

Ken Muldrew

(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

"Ken Muldrew" wrote in message
...
"Sean Monaghan" wrote:

We are thinking about baptising our first child, but we aren't sure of
the appropriate age.

I assume by "baptising" you're talking about buying a child his or her
own set of woodworking tools. I believe the appropriate age is when
the child is able to put a good, serviceable edge on a chisel or plane
blade. Those children who are baptised as infants never learn to
properly care for their tools, so I believe you would do a diservice
to the child by having a premature baptism.

Now, the more important question: What tools are appropriate for a
baptism? I believe this is the area where you will find a schism
between the major religions. Especially fractious is the ongoing
debate about the tools of choice for Jewish carpenters. The church of
Norm believes that the church has a right to great wealth and they
condone its use for outfitting the shop. Whereas there are those who
feel that Jesus didn't even own the simple hand-tools that he worked
with. This latter group preaches the simplicity of non-corded tools,
but if you examine their accounts with the Temples of L(e/i)e (Valley
or Neilson), you will find that Mammon is not far from their practice,
if far from their beliefs. Then too, there are the pagans who will
insist that the wood must be the guide; the tools being mere artifacts
of the way.

Woodorkers, please help this wayward soul, and provide suggestions for
the baptismal right.


I think a ritual blood-letting needs to be worked in somewhere. Also,
rigorous schooling in the tenets of Crapsman vs. Grizzly, The Staining of
Cherry, and the sins of the SawStop.

In article ,
mac davis wrote:

Robotoy.....you got a DVD rewinder that doesn't make noise? COOL!

There is no motor, mac... it is cranked by hand, hence the
whirringlessness. I bought the ambidextrous version.

Would/wood making really thin shavings with a plane or chisel qualify as a
religious experience??

Absolutely. If the shavings float like anti-gravity-type feathers, the
experience is sexual as well...unfortunately not in a Tammy-Fay kinda
way. (That would be TOO cool)

Do people that cross post stuff to unrelated groups have to wait until they go
to hell, or are they punished in life here?

I call for punishment now! Crazy glue some headphones on them and force
them to listen to rap at extremely slow speeds....in French.

"RonB" wrote in message
news:iVkze.69716$oK.56457@okepread02...
Troll or not, this one got the group going!!!!!!!! 36 messages in about 7
hours.

Bah! Not even worth honourable mention.

Mark & Juanita wrote in
news
The difference is whether one believes that baptism is something God
does
....

Yeah, I know this has something to do with pointy sticks or pukey ducks.

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 16:32:27 GMT, (Lawrence
Wasserman) wrote:

OK, I'll bite.


You're not married, your GF is "non practicing", you are an
agnostic, former catholic, and the 2 of you are expecting a child,
presumably while you are STILL unmarried...


I'd say baptism was irrelevant at this time. Why not let the child
grow up and make his/her own choice, as the 2 of you apparently have?

hmm... some damn good points there...
add something about woodworking and pickup trucks, and it's not only on topic,
it might make a great county-western song.. *g*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:14:22 -0400, Robatoy wrote:

In article ,
mac davis wrote:

Robotoy.....you got a DVD rewinder that doesn't make noise? COOL!

There is no motor, mac... it is cranked by hand, hence the
whirringlessness. I bought the ambidextrous version.

oh, ok... I thought you might have got the 3 hp collector's edition for
blondes..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:49:32 -0400, "gw" wrote:


"Ken Muldrew" wrote in message
...
"Sean Monaghan" wrote:

We are thinking about baptising our first child, but we aren't sure of
the appropriate age.

I assume by "baptising" you're talking about buying a child his or her
own set of woodworking tools. I believe the appropriate age is when
the child is able to put a good, serviceable edge on a chisel or plane
blade. Those children who are baptised as infants never learn to
properly care for their tools, so I believe you would do a diservice
to the child by having a premature baptism.

Now, the more important question: What tools are appropriate for a
baptism? I believe this is the area where you will find a schism
between the major religions. Especially fractious is the ongoing
debate about the tools of choice for Jewish carpenters. The church of
Norm believes that the church has a right to great wealth and they
condone its use for outfitting the shop. Whereas there are those who
feel that Jesus didn't even own the simple hand-tools that he worked
with. This latter group preaches the simplicity of non-corded tools,
but if you examine their accounts with the Temples of L(e/i)e (Valley
or Neilson), you will find that Mammon is not far from their practice,
if far from their beliefs. Then too, there are the pagans who will
insist that the wood must be the guide; the tools being mere artifacts
of the way.

Woodorkers, please help this wayward soul, and provide suggestions for
the baptismal right.


I think a ritual blood-letting needs to be worked in somewhere. Also,
rigorous schooling in the tenets of Crapsman vs. Grizzly, The Staining of
Cherry, and the sins of the SawStop.

let's not forget the sacrifice... bring on the young virgins!
(oh, and find something to kill)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 00:30:15 GMT, "cm" wrote:

Isn't there another newsgroup for fairytales?

cm

AMEN to that, brother..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 22:04:06 -0400, "Upscale" wrote:

"RonB" wrote in message
news:iVkze.69716$oK.56457@okepread02...
Troll or not, this one got the group going!!!!!!!! 36 messages in about 7
hours.

Bah! Not even worth honourable mention.

not nearly as active as the K&N air filer debates at alt.auto.dodge.trucks


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:42:28 GMT, Nate Perkins wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote in
news
The difference is whether one believes that baptism is something God
does
...

Yeah, I know this has something to do with pointy sticks or pukey ducks.

could be, sorta-kinda... I've semi prayed that a piece of expensive wood
wouldn't split or crack while drilling or something..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Bookman" wrote in message

Well, many Baptismal Fonts are made of wood. The few immersion-type
Baptism pools that I have seen all had wood trim, at least. HTH.

And dadoes used to be made out of wood. Why don't you pull yours out of your
ass?

On 8 Jul 2005 19:57:54 -0700, "hylourgos" wrote:

Snip

Not too regretful yet, but waiting...,
H

Hey H, save your fingers. There's nothing for you to say to these
types. Shoulda stayed out of it myself, but I had a moment of
weakness (tacere).

"mac davis" wrote:

On 07 Jul 2005 04:15:11 GMT, "Sean Monaghan"
wrote:

The issue of baptism has recently been raised in my home.

hmm... I only raise kids, veggies, dust and hell in mine...

I think most folks true baptism is their first experience using a good
power tool.. YMMV

Christianity is not a joking matter, and neither is the soul of child.

VK

Prometheus wrote:
Shoulda stayed out of it myself, but I had a moment of
weakness (tacere).

Dear (temporarily) Epimetheus,

Good to hear from you!

Ego etiam tacitus conatus, sed quam Juvenali, tam mihi.

Ridens,
H...qui homo Horationus saepius esse debet.

On 10 Jul 2005 22:28:13 -0700, "hylourgos" wrote:



Prometheus wrote:
Shoulda stayed out of it myself, but I had a moment of
weakness (tacere).

Dear (temporarily) Epimetheus,

Good to hear from you!

Ego etiam tacitus conatus, sed quam Juvenali, tam mihi.

Ego paenitet hominem, at ego balbutio latin bene exilis. Si vous
pouvez parler dans un autre langue de romance, je puex ca comprende
meilleur. C'etait beaucoup des annes depuis j'ai etudie ces choses,
si suis presque bete dans ces affaires mantenant. Je seulment connais
que parlent avec les chretiens qui regardent le Bible comme c'est un
recette par vie est un tache Herculean, et presque toujours fait rien.

Or, in other words, your head will break before the wall does, so stop
banging it!

C'est meilleur a oublions ces gens, ils ne peut meme vous affilez
pas. Si vous voudrais parlez un peut (cependant preferablement en
anglais!), me envoyez courriel a ten.remoolb@kessej (a rebours). Ce
n'est pas la approprie juridiction, d'ou ce langue au lieu de anglais.
M'excusez par changes la langue, mais je presumes que si vous pouvez
parle latin, pouvez comprendre francais, italien, ou espagnol, comme
je puex comprends latin un peu.

Regardes,
P.- un homme qui comprend Magister Ludi, mais pas noyade.

WD wrote in
:

God will punish you for using foul language.

and we're looking forward to it.


--
Rev Dr Pastor Dick F Foot MA, DD, FFD
The Guardian of English Christianity
Broomleigh Baptist Church AG (Zürich)
111 Lime Walk, Chelmsford CM2 9NJ, Great Britain
http://www.broomleigh.com/

WD wrote:
On 16 Jul 2005 06:38:36 -0700, "Charlie Self"
wrote:

Please stay where you are. Goddamned fundamentalist Southron Baptists
are a big enough pain in the ass.

God will punish you for using foul language.

Sure he will. Idiot.

Hey, have you ever wondered if they stop and drain that baptismal font
if the first kid gets nervous and pees in it?

"Charlie Self" wrote in news:1121560270.421485.267040
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

Hey, have you ever wondered if they stop and drain that
baptismal font if the first kid gets nervous and pees in it?

I do know that you will be pleading with us True Christians® in heaven for
an oh-so-cooling golden shower, when you are eternally burning in hell,
being sodomised by Satan, and having your flesh gnawed by deranged beasts
the dear Lord Jesus made specifically for the purpose.


--
Rev Dr Pastor Dick F Foot MA, DD, FFD
The Guardian of English Christianity
Broomleigh Baptist Church AG (Zürich)
111 Lime Walk, Chelmsford CM2 9NJ, Great Britain
http://www.broomleigh.com/

Richard Frank Dick Foot wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in news:1121560270.421485.267040
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

Hey, have you ever wondered if they stop and drain that
baptismal font if the first kid gets nervous and pees in it?

I do know that you will be pleading with us True Christians=AE in heaven =
for
an oh-so-cooling golden shower, when you are eternally burning in hell,
being sodomised by Satan, and having your flesh gnawed by deranged beasts
the dear Lord Jesus made specifically for the purpose.


--
Rev Dr Pastor Dick F Foot MA, DD, FFD
The Guardian of English Christianity
Broomleigh Baptist Church AG (Z=FCrich)
111 Lime Walk, Chelmsford CM2 9NJ, Great Britain
http://www.broomleigh.com/

Yawn. Burp.

More fish **** stuff.

Lew

On 16 Jul 2005 17:31:10 -0700, "Charlie Self" wrote:

God will punish you for using foul language.

Sure he will. Idiot.

Hey, have you ever wondered if they stop and drain that baptismal font
if the first kid gets nervous and pees in it?

......a short real life story:

My kid was 11 when a Born again Christian family took her to church
every Sunday, later they invited my wife to the church and spend two
evening a week indoctrinating her. A year or so into the episode they
wanna baptized my kid. I say "NO", she was too young.

All the while I stood by the sideline. Once in a while I attended the
church's services. The matter took a different direction when her best
classmate who incidentally invited her to church insulted and abused
my kid in school. Both my wife and kid learned for themselves without
me interfering.

I believe: Practice what you preach. Actions speak louder than words.
Blind "Faith" always leads to disaster.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 05:05:19 GMT, "Richard*Frank Dick Foot"
*emaildickatbroomleighdotorgorcomor@name********. net wrote:

I do know that you will be pleading with us True Christians® in heaven for
an oh-so-cooling golden shower, when you are eternally burning in hell,
being sodomised by Satan, and having your flesh gnawed by deranged beasts
the dear Lord Jesus made specifically for the purpose.

I know (Boston, San Diego etc...) your "True Christians®" being sued for what
Satan does in hell. pleading, you must be kidding?

WD wrote in :

I know (Boston, San Diego etc...) your
"True Christians®" being sued for what
Satan does in hell. pleading, you must
be kidding?

A rich psychopath called Keith P Exford sues me about twice per year. In
2005, psychopath Keith P Exford has done so under the guise of Miss Sarah
Branson BA FFD, a bent barrister from Brixton, London.


--
Rev Dr Pastor Dick F Foot MA, DD, FFD
The Guardian of English Christianity
Broomleigh Baptist Church AG (Zürich)
111 Lime Walk, Chelmsford CM2 9NJ, Great Britain
http://www.broomleigh.com/

WD wrote in :

Blind "Faith" always leads to disaster.


Faith is when you believe something that is not true.


--
Rev Dr Pastor Dick F Foot MA, DD, FFD
The Guardian of English Christianity
Broomleigh Baptist Church AG (Zürich)
111 Lime Walk, Chelmsford CM2 9NJ, Great Britain
http://www.broomleigh.com/

Richard Frank Dick Foot wrote:
WD wrote in :

Blind "Faith" always leads to disaster.


Faith is when you believe something that is not true.



Wow... that is a sad statement... you call yourslf a PASTOR?

--Carl

On 17 Jul 2005 14:28:16 -0700, Carl Walther put finger to keyboard and
typed:



Richard Frank Dick Foot wrote:
WD wrote in :

Blind "Faith" always leads to disaster.


Faith is when you believe something that is not true.



Wow... that is a sad statement... you call yourslf a PASTOR?

For the benefit of anyone reading this who hasn't yet come across the
individual calling himself "Pastor Dick Foot", or variants of it, you
should be aware that this is an assumed name of someone who bears a
grudge against the real Pastor Foot and is deliberately trying to
blacken his name. The actual name of the person behind these postings
is Tom Moore, who has a website at http://www.tom-moore.com. See
also http://www.broomleigh.org.

Mark
--
http://www.CorporateContact.info - for when you need to get in touch
"When you lose control, you'll reap the harvest you have sown"

"Charlie Self" wrote in
oups.com:

http://www.broomleigh.com/

Yawn. Burp.


Burping in it-alt.sesso.masturbazione Charlie Self ?


--
Rev Dr Pastor Dick F Foot MA, DD, FFD
The Guardian of English Christianity
Broomleigh Baptist Church AG (Zürich)
111 Lime Walk, Chelmsford CM2 9NJ, Great Britain
http://www.broomleigh.com/

"Vito Kuhn" spake thusly and wrote:

The Jews ARE the chosen people, but they need to accept the Holy Trinity
of God in three parts.

Ignorant, polytheistic, false-christian scum, the Jews know
better than to fall for your stupid anti-christ garbage!

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the
commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?

X-No-Archive: YES
Pastor Steve Winter has offered into testimony


cowardly followup game defeated

"Vito Kuhn" spake thusly and
wrote:

The Jews ARE the chosen people, but they need to accept
the Holy Trinity of God in three parts.

Ignorant, polytheistic, false-christian scum

Well now? What would Jesus say to that noisy widdle outburst?

--

Skepticult® Member# 581-00504-208
ChadwickStone at Gmail dot com
Usenet's most helpful netizen
Hammer of Thor, March 2005

Pastor Steve Winter writes something that has nothing to do with woodworking.

Please keep this in your own newsgroup, and don't be tricked by
trollers into posting into non-related newsgroups.

--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:49:58 -0400, in rec.woodworking, Pastor Steve Winter
wrote:

"Vito Kuhn" spake thusly and wrote:

The Jews ARE the chosen people, but they need to accept the Holy Trinity
of God in three parts.

Ignorant, polytheistic, false-christian scum, the Jews know
better than to fall for your stupid anti-christ garbage!

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the
commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

even better, I see no need for a god of any sort...

Reject all deism...


--
Ak'toh'di