Hello to the group! Forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject, but I
am still very much learning. Please excuse the length of this post,
the question is in the last paragraph. I am detailing the process I
went through very because I don't know quite where I screwed up.

Recently, I finished a wood project (3/4" birch ply) which had come to
the finishing stage. I wanted to give it a gloss black finish. The
folks at the Home Depot, in their infinite wisdom, recommended
Rustoleum High Gloss Lacquer.

I prepped the surface with over 10 hours of sanding. I tried to get
rid of the fuzz with 150 grit paper per the instructions of the Home
Depot guy. Unable to do so, I made my first mistake, I used Elmer's
wood filler to fill the grain of the birch. This is a heavy putty used
for filling holes, but in my ignorance, I used it as grain filler.
The first coat I spread thin, but ended up completely sanding off
trying to get a uniformly smooth surface. Then I slathered on 1/4"
second coat of filler all around the cabinet. It took me 4 hours to
sand it back to semi-flatness with 150 grit. I did another touch up
third filler coat, thiis time with heavily water-thinned wood filler.
I went up to 220 grit and got a surface that was very smooth and
uniform to the touch. I tacked it clean with a damp rag to get rid of
all the debris. I was ready for outstanding results!!

I used 2 cans of Rustoleum sandable primer, and 2 cans of Rostoleum
high gloss lacquer, in aresol spray. I went into the back yard, set
up a makeshift spray booth with tarp, and hung the project in midair
for spraying. The primer coats looked GREAT! I laid 3 coats down. I
also had some very slight surface imperfections that the 3rd coat of
primer helped swamp. I did not sand my primer coats because they
looked great.

Aafter letting the primer dry for about 45 minutes, I broke out the
lacquer. I layed a very thin coat holding the spray can about 12" from
the cabinet. The finish looked very uneven - I thought subsequent
coats would take care of it. I layed down 2 more light coats, moving
the spray can in short 6" strokes: psst, psst, psst, psst, trying to
get the entire surface coated.

After I finished using all 2 cans, the finish was VERY glossy in
certain areas, and almost flat black in others. Moreover, the surface
has this fine black dust all over it and the flat areas feel very
rough (like 150 grit sandpaper) to the touch. I have never used a
nitrocellulose lacquer before and am not sure if this is how it is
supposed to feel before buffing and cutting. I am deathly afraid I
have ruined a weeks worth of HARD work and am uncertain how to
proceed. Please advise this panicked newbie. Thanks in advance!!

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 23:21:21 -0700, kawai wrote:

After I finished using all 2 cans, the finish was VERY glossy in
certain areas, and almost flat black in others. Moreover, the surface
has this fine black dust all over it and the flat areas feel very
rough (like 150 grit sandpaper) to the touch. I have never used a
nitrocellulose lacquer before and am not sure if this is how it is
supposed to feel before buffing and cutting. I am deathly afraid I
have ruined a weeks worth of HARD work and am uncertain how to
proceed. Please advise this panicked newbie. Thanks in advance!!

Sounds like overspray. You don't spray finish coats in 6" swipes, you
have to do it very smoothly back and forth, with each pass overlapping
the previous pass just a little. Make sure the can is the right
distance from the workpiece (6"-12" is what they've usually got on the
can) and work fairly quickly. If the paint dries and you've got
little splatters from the next pass floating onto it, it ends up
feeling rough and looking flat. It takes a fair amount of practice
to get right- you may have to sand with 220, and try it again. When
you get it right, it'll look even and smooth.

It's possible that a coat or two of good (i.e. not house brand) clear
gloss polyurethane might uniformly gloss over both the shiny and
non-shiny areas and leave you with the finish you want. TRY A TEST
PIECE/AREA FIRST!

FoggyTown

In addition to the other advice, the automotive painters use the primer
coats to smooth the surface. They spray a coat and sand add another coat
and sand. This process gives a smooth surface with out imperfections. Keep
that in mind if you surface does not look as smooth as it should.


"kawai" wrote in message
...
Hello to the group! Forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject, but I
am still very much learning. Please excuse the length of this post,
the question is in the last paragraph. I am detailing the process I
went through very because I don't know quite where I screwed up.

Recently, I finished a wood project (3/4" birch ply) which had come to
the finishing stage. I wanted to give it a gloss black finish. The
folks at the Home Depot, in their infinite wisdom, recommended
Rustoleum High Gloss Lacquer.

I prepped the surface with over 10 hours of sanding. I tried to get
rid of the fuzz with 150 grit paper per the instructions of the Home
Depot guy. Unable to do so, I made my first mistake, I used Elmer's
wood filler to fill the grain of the birch. This is a heavy putty used
for filling holes, but in my ignorance, I used it as grain filler.
The first coat I spread thin, but ended up completely sanding off
trying to get a uniformly smooth surface. Then I slathered on 1/4"
second coat of filler all around the cabinet. It took me 4 hours to
sand it back to semi-flatness with 150 grit. I did another touch up
third filler coat, thiis time with heavily water-thinned wood filler.
I went up to 220 grit and got a surface that was very smooth and
uniform to the touch. I tacked it clean with a damp rag to get rid of
all the debris. I was ready for outstanding results!!

I used 2 cans of Rustoleum sandable primer, and 2 cans of Rostoleum
high gloss lacquer, in aresol spray. I went into the back yard, set
up a makeshift spray booth with tarp, and hung the project in midair
for spraying. The primer coats looked GREAT! I laid 3 coats down. I
also had some very slight surface imperfections that the 3rd coat of
primer helped swamp. I did not sand my primer coats because they
looked great.

Aafter letting the primer dry for about 45 minutes, I broke out the
lacquer. I layed a very thin coat holding the spray can about 12" from
the cabinet. The finish looked very uneven - I thought subsequent
coats would take care of it. I layed down 2 more light coats, moving
the spray can in short 6" strokes: psst, psst, psst, psst, trying to
get the entire surface coated.

After I finished using all 2 cans, the finish was VERY glossy in
certain areas, and almost flat black in others. Moreover, the surface
has this fine black dust all over it and the flat areas feel very
rough (like 150 grit sandpaper) to the touch. I have never used a
nitrocellulose lacquer before and am not sure if this is how it is
supposed to feel before buffing and cutting. I am deathly afraid I
have ruined a weeks worth of HARD work and am uncertain how to
proceed. Please advise this panicked newbie. Thanks in advance!!

kawai wrote:
Hello to the group! Forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject, but I
am still very much learning. Please excuse the length of this post,
the question is in the last paragraph. I am detailing the process I
went through very because I don't know quite where I screwed up.

Recently, I finished a wood project (3/4" birch ply) which had come to
the finishing stage. I wanted to give it a gloss black finish. The
folks at the Home Depot, in their infinite wisdom, recommended
Rustoleum High Gloss Lacquer.

I prepped the surface with over 10 hours of sanding. I tried to get
rid of the fuzz with 150 grit paper per the instructions of the Home
Depot guy. Unable to do so, I made my first mistake, I used Elmer's
wood filler to fill the grain of the birch. This is a heavy putty used
for filling holes, but in my ignorance, I used it as grain filler.
The first coat I spread thin, but ended up completely sanding off
trying to get a uniformly smooth surface. Then I slathered on 1/4"
second coat of filler all around the cabinet. It took me 4 hours to
sand it back to semi-flatness with 150 grit. I did another touch up
third filler coat, thiis time with heavily water-thinned wood filler.
I went up to 220 grit and got a surface that was very smooth and
uniform to the touch. I tacked it clean with a damp rag to get rid of
all the debris. I was ready for outstanding results!!

I used 2 cans of Rustoleum sandable primer, and 2 cans of Rostoleum
high gloss lacquer, in aresol spray. I went into the back yard, set
up a makeshift spray booth with tarp, and hung the project in midair
for spraying. The primer coats looked GREAT! I laid 3 coats down. I
also had some very slight surface imperfections that the 3rd coat of
primer helped swamp. I did not sand my primer coats because they
looked great.

Aafter letting the primer dry for about 45 minutes, I broke out the
lacquer. I layed a very thin coat holding the spray can about 12" from
the cabinet. The finish looked very uneven - I thought subsequent
coats would take care of it. I layed down 2 more light coats, moving
the spray can in short 6" strokes: psst, psst, psst, psst, trying to
get the entire surface coated.

After I finished using all 2 cans, the finish was VERY glossy in
certain areas, and almost flat black in others. Moreover, the surface
has this fine black dust all over it and the flat areas feel very
rough (like 150 grit sandpaper) to the touch. I have never used a
nitrocellulose lacquer before and am not sure if this is how it is
supposed to feel before buffing and cutting. I am deathly afraid I
have ruined a weeks worth of HARD work and am uncertain how to
proceed. Please advise this panicked newbie. Thanks in advance!!

Getting a flawless, glossy surface - especially a black one - is a hard
thing to do. You should have sanded your primer too...it is flat and
imperfections won't show.

The "grit" is overspray that semi-dried before landing. You aren't
spraying evenly and/or heavily enough. The goal in spraying is to lay
down a uniform, *wet* layer. You didn't mention the dimensions of your
project but it is hard to spray anything other than small things with
aerosol cans.

If the project is of any size, you might be better off with one of the
cheapo airless sprayers (I have seen them advertised for as low as $12
recently). They sure aren't great but IMO they *will* spit out a better
spray volume than aerosol cans. Save a bundle on the lacquer too.

Once you get a uniform, wet layer and it drys it is likely that it won't
be good enough...you will have gotten some areas thicker, the grain may
still show, there will be dust nibs, etc. What you do then is wet sand
it with #400 (finer on the last coat) until it is flat again. Then
spray, wet sand, spray, wet sand until you are satisfied you have a flat
surface that is also uniformally black with zero imperfections including
sanding marks. Then spray a final "shine" coat. As an alternative to
the shine coat, you could rub out the last sanded coat with ever finer
abrasives...auto rubbing compound, rottenstone, etc.

BTW, it takes a *lot* longer for lacquer to dry than you think...several
days. If the surface has an odor it isn't dry. If you sand too soon
parts will be bone dry, others won't. Even if you sand perfectly the
not quite dry areas will continue to dry (shrinking in the process) and
you will have low areas.

You did a lot of unnecessary work on your birch. Birch is fine and
close grained and really doesn't need any filler other than in surface
imperfections. Multiple coats of your topcoat will ultimately cover any
"grain" telegraphing through. You could start with a perfect surface
for the lacquer on most any wood by using auto primer. A lacquer based
one. It has a lot of talc in it and sands very easily when dry. The
goal is to wind up with a smooth, flawless coat - a thin one, almost
transparent - as the base for the top coats. Saves a lot of top coat
sanding.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:04:57 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Thank you all for your insightful responses. It does seem like
overspray due to lack of experience on my part.


The "grit" is overspray that semi-dried before landing. You aren't
spraying evenly and/or heavily enough. The goal in spraying is to lay
down a uniform, *wet* layer. You didn't mention the dimensions of your
project but it is hard to spray anything other than small things with
aerosol cans.

The project is a speaker-type cabinet of outer dimensions 16" x 14" x
30".

If the project is of any size, you might be better off with one of the
cheapo airless sprayers (I have seen them advertised for as low as $12
recently). They sure aren't great but IMO they *will* spit out a better
spray volume than aerosol cans. Save a bundle on the lacquer too.

Do you think this size warrants an airless sprayer? Also, I don't
think Rustoleum makes this lacquer in anything other than aeresol
cans. If I use another nitrocellulose based lacquer, will I have an
adverse reaction?

Once you get a uniform, wet layer and it drys it is likely that it won't
be good enough...you will have gotten some areas thicker, the grain may
still show, there will be dust nibs, etc. What you do then is wet sand
it with #400 (finer on the last coat) until it is flat again. Then
spray, wet sand, spray, wet sand until you are satisfied you have a flat
surface that is also uniformally black with zero imperfections including
sanding marks. Then spray a final "shine" coat. As an alternative to
the shine coat, you could rub out the last sanded coat with ever finer
abrasives...auto rubbing compound, rottenstone, etc.

Thank you, this is very informative. I have heard people giving
differing advice about what sandpaper grits I should use to fix my
current finish. Advice has varied from 150# to 400# - what would be
best to start with?

BTW, it takes a *lot* longer for lacquer to dry than you think...several
days. If the surface has an odor it isn't dry. If you sand too soon
parts will be bone dry, others won't. Even if you sand perfectly the
not quite dry areas will continue to dry (shrinking in the process) and
you will have low areas.

Yes. Again, I chose the lacquer based on advice from the home depot.
Were I to do it again, I would probably roll on latex with a urethane
topcoat! I have resigned to the fact that my finish is probably not
going to look glass smooth.

You did a lot of unnecessary work on your birch. Birch is fine and

The understatement of the year . I went that route because I was
trying to get rid of all the grain structure in the wood. Sandpaper
kept lifting "fuzz" from the surface. Live and learn ...

close grained and really doesn't need any filler other than in surface
imperfections. Multiple coats of your topcoat will ultimately cover any
"grain" telegraphing through. You could start with a perfect surface
for the lacquer on most any wood by using auto primer. A lacquer based
one. It has a lot of talc in it and sands very easily when dry. The
goal is to wind up with a smooth, flawless coat - a thin one, almost
transparent - as the base for the top coats. Saves a lot of top coat
sanding.

GREAT advice for next time!

As for fixing my current mess, this is what I am planning on doing.
Please advise if you would modify this procedure to achieve a better
result:

1) Wait 2 days for lacquer topcoat to somewhat dry.
2) Sand surface with #320 sandpaper to see if it can be leveled. If
it is taking a LONG time or ineffective in leveling, up the grit one
grade coarser and try again.
3) Shoot a couple of practice panels with a cheap spray paint to get
my technique down.
4) Shoot the cabinet with another 2 wet layers of lacquer.

Questions:

1) Is it possible to use a lacquer thinner on my current surface to
"melt" the overspray into a flat top layer?

2) Can I mix different brands of lacquer with a Rusto High Gloss
undercoat?

On 14 Jun 2005 02:39:33 -0700, "foggytown" wrote:

It's possible that a coat or two of good (i.e. not house brand) clear
gloss polyurethane might uniformly gloss over both the shiny and
non-shiny areas and leave you with the finish you want. TRY A TEST
PIECE/AREA FIRST!

FoggyTown

I was under the impression that polyurethane was not compatable with a
lacquer finish?

dewaxed shellac as a barrier coat??

Dave

kawai wrote:



I was under the impression that polyurethane was not compatable with a
lacquer finish?

dadiOH gave all good advice.

Once you have lacquer down don't go lower than 220 on the grit.
Actually 320 is probably a better start. You can shoot any lacquer over
existing lacquer. Airless is not appropriate for lacquer. You can
proceed with spray cans for a project this small. It's a bit harder to
get enough paint to lay down but the gear to do it otherwise is
expensive.

Don't spray when its too hot. 70 degrees is optimal. Since you're using
canned spray you can't add additives to slow the dry and in hot
situations lacquer will dry before it hits, ie feels like sand paper
and looks hazy.

Sand (lightly) after every coat. I know dadi said wait long but I
usually sand in an hour.

Finally, spray high gloss clear over the finished piece and polish it
using auto polish.

kawai wrote in news:a3ssa1pg0uds8jfpj45kkig8l8lbueimqt@
4ax.com:

Recently, I finished a wood project (3/4" birch ply) which had come to
the finishing stage. I wanted to give it a gloss black finish. The
folks at the Home Depot, in their infinite wisdom, recommended
Rustoleum High Gloss Lacquer.

Not that it helps you now, but that would not have been my choice.
I would have used a boat enamel, like Interlux Brightside. Working
with birch ply, you should be able to get a very nice finish by
sanding to 150, paint w/ Interlux primer, sand that, 2nd coat of
primer, sand that w/ 220, then put on 2 coats of topcoat, sanding
w/ 220 between them. Brightside, at least, goes on very well with
a brush, I think most other marine one-part enamels would be equally
easy to use.

(I'll note that there's something of a "you get what you pay for"
here - a quart of Brightside will set you back $32, which is a tad
more than 2 cans of rustoleum.)

John

kawai wrote:
On 14 Jun 2005 02:39:33 -0700, "foggytown" wrote:

It's possible that a coat or two of good (i.e. not house brand) clear
gloss polyurethane might uniformly gloss over both the shiny and
non-shiny areas and leave you with the finish you want. TRY A TEST
PIECE/AREA FIRST!

FoggyTown

I was under the impression that polyurethane was not compatable with a
lacquer finish?

You can put poly over lacquer but not vice versa. Not what you want to
do though.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Jeff Jewitt suggests sprat the edge closest to you first and overlap
with the next pass by 50° and repeat. The overspray doesn't land on
fresh coats of finish this way. I use a fan behind me when spraying
to help the overspray get away from the project.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:04:57 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

The "grit" is overspray that semi-dried before landing. You aren't
spraying evenly and/or heavily enough. The goal in spraying is to lay
down a uniform, *wet* layer. You didn't mention the dimensions of your
project but it is hard to spray anything other than small things with
aerosol cans.

kawai wrote:

The project is a speaker-type cabinet of outer dimensions 16" x 14" x
30".

If the project is of any size, you might be better off with one of
the cheapo airless sprayers (I have seen them advertised for as low
as $12 recently). They sure aren't great but IMO they *will* spit
out a better spray volume than aerosol cans. Save a bundle on the
lacquer too.

Do you think this size warrants an airless sprayer?

No, you could spray that with aerosol cans.
________________

Also, I don't
think Rustoleum makes this lacquer in anything other than aeresol
cans. If I use another nitrocellulose based lacquer, will I have an
adverse reaction?


Lacquer is pretty much lacquer.
_______________

Once you get a uniform, wet layer and it drys it is likely that it
won't be good enough...you will have gotten some areas thicker, the
grain may still show, there will be dust nibs, etc. What you do
then is wet sand it with #400 (finer on the last coat) until it is
flat again. Then spray, wet sand, spray, wet sand until you are
satisfied you have a flat surface that is also uniformally black
with zero imperfections including sanding marks. Then spray a final
"shine" coat. As an alternative to the shine coat, you could rub
out the last sanded coat with ever finer abrasives...auto rubbing
compound, rottenstone, etc.

Thank you, this is very informative. I have heard people giving
differing advice about what sandpaper grits I should use to fix my
current finish. Advice has varied from 150# to 400# - what would be
best to start with?

Depends on how bad it is and how much more you are going to spray. I'd
probably start with #240. BTW, the fine sanding sponges work well for
this sort of thing too...they conform a bit and don't dig in.
________________________

BTW, it takes a *lot* longer for lacquer to dry than you
think...several days. If the surface has an odor it isn't dry. If
you sand too soon parts will be bone dry, others won't. Even if you
sand perfectly the not quite dry areas will continue to dry
(shrinking in the process) and you will have low areas.

Yes. Again, I chose the lacquer based on advice from the home depot.
Were I to do it again, I would probably roll on latex with a urethane
topcoat!

Oh, gawd no! Don't *EVER* do that.

Latex is fine for cement, drywall, exterior trim and the like but don't
put it on anything where you want a good finish...it won't self level
and it is impossible to sand.

If you didn't want to use lacquer the proper alternative would have been
an oil paint, either alkyd or poly. My personal preference is alkyd
because it generally "flows" better; that is quite variable, though,
depending on the brand.

If you have a big project and really need to roll, roll on the oil paint
with a fine roller over maybe 10-12 sq.ft. and then keep tipping it off
with a high quality bristle brush to even up and edge blend until the
brush starts to drag a bit. Used to paint my 42' ketch (sailboat) that
way. Paint needs to be right - maybe some retarder/thinner/penetrol -
depends on the brand.
_______________________

I have resigned to the fact that my finish is probably not
going to look glass smooth.

It's the high gloss that will make it hard...it shows *every*
imperfection. You could get a nice satin finish by rubbing out the
final coat with #0000 steel wool. Light touch on the edges to avoid
cutting through. Once a uniform sheen, you could get a pleasant glow
with a couple of coats of Johnson's paste wax. Won't be high high gloss
but it can be shiny. Looks better IMO than high gloss.
___________________

You did a lot of unnecessary work on your birch. Birch is fine and

The understatement of the year . I went that route because I was
trying to get rid of all the grain structure in the wood. Sandpaper
kept lifting "fuzz" from the surface. Live and learn ...


That's what sanding primer is for
_______________________

As for fixing my current mess, this is what I am planning on doing.
Please advise if you would modify this procedure to achieve a better
result:

1) Wait 2 days for lacquer topcoat to somewhat dry.

At this point you need not wait that long. It is when you are getting
down to the short strokes - the final sanding before rubbing out - that
you need for it to be really, really dry.

2) Sand surface with #320 sandpaper to see if it can be leveled. If
it is taking a LONG time or ineffective in leveling, up the grit one
grade coarser and try again.
3) Shoot a couple of practice panels with a cheap spray paint to get
my technique down.
4) Shoot the cabinet with another 2 wet layers of lacquer.


Myself, I'd spray a smallish area that is messed up with more lacquer
first - a wet coat - to see how much fixing that does. Other than that
and my note on #1, what you propose should be fine. Especially #3.
_____________________

Questions:

1) Is it possible to use a lacquer thinner on my current surface to
"melt" the overspray into a flat top layer?

The next coat of lacquer should pretty much do that.

What spraying thinner can be good for is "blushing". If you spray in
humid weather the moisture can get trapped under the lacquer and it will
turn opaque and whitish. That can be a problem with aerosols
particulary (but not exclusively) because IIRC they use propane for a
propellant and the stuff comes out chilled.

The way to avoid it is to have it dry more slowly. Can't add a retarder
to spray cans but you *can* put a cardboard box over the work as soon as
it is sprayed. If it still blushes (or did previously) a sprayed coat
of thinner then the box will let the moisture get out. Note I'm not
saying you should do this as apparently you haven't had any problem with
blushing. It's a "just in case" note...I happened to think of it
because it is a sweat box today here in Florida.

2) Can I mix different brands of lacquer with a Rusto High Gloss
undercoat?

You mean on top of what you have? Normally, yes because the vehicle is
the same. However, in aerosols, they may be using something a bit
different so I'd try it on a non-conspicuous place first.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
dadiOH gave all good advice.

Once you have lacquer down don't go lower than 220 on the grit.
Actually 320 is probably a better start. You can shoot any lacquer
over existing lacquer. Airless is not appropriate for lacquer.

It is if you have a lot to do and that's all you have

Did all my kitchen cabinet doors - a bunch - with one.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:55:19 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

It's the high gloss that will make it hard...it shows *every*
imperfection. You could get a nice satin finish by rubbing out the
final coat with #0000 steel wool. Light touch on the edges to avoid
cutting through. Once a uniform sheen, you could get a pleasant glow
with a couple of coats of Johnson's paste wax. Won't be high high gloss
but it can be shiny. Looks better IMO than high gloss.

That is a GREAT idea at this point. A nice satin black finish is just
what the doctor ordered.

So you think that my overspray might just melt into the next topcoat
of lacquer without sanding? I plan on laying it as wet as I can
without sags and drips. Also, will #0000 steel wool provide a
different result from sanding? I have never used steel wool before.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:33:55 -0700, nospambob
wrote:

I use a fan behind me when spraying
to help the overspray get away from the project.

Great idea about the fan. I will try that - I just hope it doesn't
accelerate the drying time or blow other debris into the cabinet (I am
spraying outside).

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:00:37 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

(I'll note that there's something of a "you get what you pay for"
here - a quart of Brightside will set you back $32, which is a tad
more than 2 cans of rustoleum.)

That's about what I'm going to end up paying after i consider all the
cans of Rusto (5 lacquer and 2 primer) and filler I bought!

But - on the bright side - at least I didn't have to spring for a $20
brush to tip it with!

On 14 Jun 2005 09:31:04 -0700, "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

Finally, spray high gloss clear over the finished piece and polish it
using auto polish.

What kind of gloss? Is this going to be necessary even for a satin
finish? I think a high gloss is pretty much out of the question for
me now.

kawai wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:55:19 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

It's the high gloss that will make it hard...it shows *every*
imperfection. You could get a nice satin finish by rubbing out the
final coat with #0000 steel wool. Light touch on the edges to avoid
cutting through. Once a uniform sheen, you could get a pleasant glow
with a couple of coats of Johnson's paste wax. Won't be high high
gloss but it can be shiny. Looks better IMO than high gloss.

That is a GREAT idea at this point. A nice satin black finish is just
what the doctor ordered.

So you think that my overspray might just melt into the next topcoat
of lacquer without sanding? I plan on laying it as wet as I can
without sags and drips.

Don't overdo it.
_____________

Also, will #0000 steel wool provide a
different result from sanding?

Ummm...sorta. It smooths more than abrades. Conforms to the surface
too.
_____________

I have never used steel wool before.

You're gonna love it.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:42:41 -0700, kawai wrote:

Thank you, this is very informative. I have heard people giving
differing advice about what sandpaper grits I should use to fix my
current finish. Advice has varied from 150# to 400# - what would be
best to start with?

150 grit seems awfully agressive at the stage you're at. I'd try
starting with 320 or 400, and then give it a once-over with a loupe
(one of those little plastic magnifiers that you hold in one eye-
they're only about $4-5, and they work great for checking surfaces
between finish coats) Look to make sure that the sanding scratches
are uniform and even- if you've got some scratches that are deeper
than others, you can back down one grit (IE, 320 - 220) and resand.
I'd take it up to 400 grit before spraying again.

Yes. Again, I chose the lacquer based on advice from the home depot.
Were I to do it again, I would probably roll on latex with a urethane
topcoat! I have resigned to the fact that my finish is probably not
going to look glass smooth.

Laquer can look really nice, it just takes practice and care. If you
put the time in, it's going to look a lot nicer than poly over latex.
If you buit it well enough to last for a long time, it's probably
worth the effort to keep at it until it is how you want it.
Otherwise, the sucker will just bug you forever.

The understatement of the year . I went that route because I was
trying to get rid of all the grain structure in the wood. Sandpaper
kept lifting "fuzz" from the surface. Live and learn ...

Sometimes that's a little easier if you wipe a little bit of water
over the top of the wood to raise the grain, let it dry, and then
sand.

1) Wait 2 days for lacquer topcoat to somewhat dry.
2) Sand surface with #320 sandpaper to see if it can be leveled. If
it is taking a LONG time or ineffective in leveling, up the grit one
grade coarser and try again.
3) Shoot a couple of practice panels with a cheap spray paint to get
my technique down.
4) Shoot the cabinet with another 2 wet layers of lacquer.

Looks like I typed the above for nothing! Sounds about right to me.

Questions:

1) Is it possible to use a lacquer thinner on my current surface to
"melt" the overspray into a flat top layer?

Probably isn't going to look right.

2) Can I mix different brands of lacquer with a Rusto High Gloss
undercoat?

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:31:26 -0700, kawai wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:55:19 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

It's the high gloss that will make it hard...it shows *every*
imperfection. You could get a nice satin finish by rubbing out the
final coat with #0000 steel wool. Light touch on the edges to avoid
cutting through. Once a uniform sheen, you could get a pleasant glow
with a couple of coats of Johnson's paste wax. Won't be high high gloss
but it can be shiny. Looks better IMO than high gloss.

That is a GREAT idea at this point. A nice satin black finish is just
what the doctor ordered.

So you think that my overspray might just melt into the next topcoat
of lacquer without sanding? I plan on laying it as wet as I can
without sags and drips. Also, will #0000 steel wool provide a
different result from sanding? I have never used steel wool before.

Sand it. I've tried that before, and it is going to show up if you
don't. It may make it look more like an orange peel than a rough
sandpaper-type surface, but it's still not what you're looking for.

kawai wrote in news:a3ssa1pg0uds8jfpj45kkig8l8lbueimqt@
4ax.com:

....
After I finished using all 2 cans, the finish was VERY glossy in
certain areas, and almost flat black in others. Moreover, the surface
has this fine black dust all over it and the flat areas feel very
rough (like 150 grit sandpaper) to the touch. I have never used a
nitrocellulose lacquer before and am not sure if this is how it is
supposed to feel before buffing and cutting. I am deathly afraid I
have ruined a weeks worth of HARD work and am uncertain how to
proceed. Please advise this panicked newbie. Thanks in advance!!

Like DadiOH said ... I bet you're getting dry spray where the paint is
partially drying before it sticks. It might be that short 6" stroke thing
you mentioned.

The idea with the spray can is to hold it about somewhere around a foot
away from the surface to be sprayed (or whatever your can says), and
keeping the can perpindicular to the surface, go in a long even stroke
across the length. Too fast and it won't wet to cover and flow, and too
slow and it will run. Then on the next stroke you'll want to overlap it
slightly with the previous one so that the coverage is even and the blend
line stays more or less wet.

Anyway, like the other posters said ... to fix it you can sand the surface
smooth with a fine grit sandpaper (I'd guess at least 220 grit), and then
spray another coat using the instructions above.

Thank you all so much for your responses, especially DadiOh! The
project is now fully sprayed and looks fairly good from about 3ft
away. The overspray was alleviated to a large extent by my technique
and the finish looks fairly even and quite glossy.

Except (there's always an exception, isn't there?) there are a few
sags. I tried to sand them clean in between coats (used my fingers to
test smoothness) but I must have not sanded quite enough. I really
don't want to lay down another finish coat of lacquer over this. I
was wondering if it would be possible to somehow sand these
imperfections flat locally and then buff the entire surface out. I am
shooting for just a nice sheen, perhaps warmish glow, not a mirror
surface.

I tried the #0000 steel wool and it takes all the shine out. Does
provide for a very even surface, color-wise though. Perhaps it is
possible to further buff the surface to achieve more shine? To do
that, what grades of sandpaper should I be looking at? Cutting
compound perhaps?? Also, how long should I wait to start this process?
Thanks again.

kawai wrote in news:tjp3b1dsmo05bmnevaa34k5rbk508ek2c7@
4ax.com:

I tried the #0000 steel wool and it takes all the shine out. Does
provide for a very even surface, color-wise though. Perhaps it is
possible to further buff the surface to achieve more shine? To do
that, what grades of sandpaper should I be looking at? Cutting
compound perhaps?? Also, how long should I wait to start this process?

You might want to try a product called Meguiar's Scratch-X, available at
automotive stores. It's a pretty aggressive abrasive and is a fairly fast
way to get the first shine.

Of course you'll want to test it on a scrap first. I've not used it on
black spray lacquer before, so I'm not sure it's compatible.

Ensure the lacquer is fully cured prior to rubbing out. If the
Meguiar's product doesn't take it far enough toward gloss Jeff carries
Menzerna polishing stuff that work quite well.
www.homesteadfinishing.com also has a few forums for broadening your
education.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:17:21 GMT, Nate Perkins
wrote:

kawai wrote in news:tjp3b1dsmo05bmnevaa34k5rbk508ek2c7@
4ax.com:

I tried the #0000 steel wool and it takes all the shine out. Does
provide for a very even surface, color-wise though. Perhaps it is
possible to further buff the surface to achieve more shine? To do
that, what grades of sandpaper should I be looking at? Cutting
compound perhaps?? Also, how long should I wait to start this process?

You might want to try a product called Meguiar's Scratch-X, available at
automotive stores. It's a pretty aggressive abrasive and is a fairly fast
way to get the first shine.

Of course you'll want to test it on a scrap first. I've not used it on
black spray lacquer before, so I'm not sure it's compatible.

I tried the #0000 steel wool and it takes all the shine out. Does
provide for a very even surface, color-wise though. Perhaps it is
possible to further buff the surface to achieve more shine? To do
that, what grades of sandpaper should I be looking at? Cutting
compound perhaps?? Also, how long should I wait to start this process?

You might want to try a product called Meguiar's Scratch-X, available at
automotive stores. It's a pretty aggressive abrasive and is a fairly
fast
way to get the first shine.

Of course you'll want to test it on a scrap first. I've not used it on
black spray lacquer before, so I'm not sure it's compatible.

Another option's to make a paste of talcum and water. It's not as
aggressive and takes a lot of elbow grease but it certainly brings up a
lovely shine.
I believe that Rolls Royce used to use it many years ago for their
finishes...

Another case of both ensuring the lacquer is fully cured first and doing a
test sample, but they apply no matter what method is tried!

- Andy