Just went to Lee Valley and picked up a book on finishing cause I have=20
several projects on the go and need info..

Think I can recommend this book...

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...3D1,190,43047=


Understanding Wood Finishing
=09
Understanding Wood Finishing - Woodworking
by Bob Flexner


It seems to answer a lot of the questions that come up here.


FYI it points out that many of the beloved finishes that get rhapsodies=20
here are polymerized oils -- (plastics -- oh the horror of it all!)=20
things like BLO and Polymerized Tung oil... Geez no better than wipe on=20
poly -- grin

Think I'll finish my cherry table project in stain and wipe on poly. :-( =

Just kidding Tom -- recall the hit squad. (sheesh -- just a joke!) But=20
what I did do was used Deft -- fruitwood colour -- which according to=20
Flexner acts more like a die -- does not obscure the grain and can be=20
topcoated by a finish more resistant to water and alcohol. This is used=20
to bring the cherry to a more consistent colour instead of waiting and=20
praying to the colour gods for a favourable transition. A rather neat=20
trick... And it does seem to work as I did this on the lamps I made with =

no seeming ill effect, now I know _why_ it works.

Anyway -- I found it very useful particularly in the recommended finish=20
charts (comparing finish characteristics) , notes on compatible stains=20
and top coats, compatible dyes and top coats etc.

Other useful charts identify many common finishes as to their=20
components. This is really useful when you wish to get good grain "pop=20
out" but need to top coat to protect.

One of the problems he points out -- through comparison charts is that=20
you can get good transparency through oil, or oil/varnish combinations,=20
or you can get good protection -- but you can't get both without using=20
conversion finishes (professional finishes) and losing repairability. In =

other words -- you can't win. Something I have long suspected.


=2E..and well worth the $20 in CDN pesos. Save me money in wasted effort =

already, and in understanding why some of my WAG's worked. (And why some =

would not have if I had tried them and wasted the project...)

(Toller -- maybe a dye would have popped the curly cherry -- maybe not=20
but worth a try...)



If you get it, hope it helps you as much as it helps me.

This blurb is from the Lee Valley site...

---------------------------------------------
Understanding Wood Finishing
=09
Understanding Wood Finishing - Woodworking
by Bob Flexner

This is clearly the best-researched, most complete book on finishing=20
that we have seen to date.

Flexner stresses understanding the chemistry and mechanics of finishing, =

developing in his readers not only a knowledge of what materials and=20
techniques work for a given finishing problem, but why they work and how =

they work. He debunks myths, gives valuable tips, and presents numerous=20
tabulations of problems with their solutions in a clear, usable format.

All readily available finishes are covered, from their history,=20
composition and chemical behavior through application and repair=20
techniques and relative merits, with advice on how to assess which is=20
best for any situation.

Flexner's straightforward prose, well illustrated with color and=20
black-and-white photographs and drawings, makes this book a complete=20
education in finishing





--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw

I'll go out on a limb and state that most of us here like Flexner's books.

Dave

WillR wrote:


Just went to Lee Valley and picked up a book on finishing cause I have
several projects on the go and need info..

Think I can recommend this book...

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,190,43047

Understanding Wood Finishing

Understanding Wood Finishing - Woodworking
by Bob Flexner


It seems to answer a lot of the questions that come up here.


FYI it points out that many of the beloved finishes that get rhapsodies
here are polymerized oils -- (plastics -- oh the horror of it all!)
things like BLO and Polymerized Tung oil... Geez no better than wipe on
poly -- grin

Think I'll finish my cherry table project in stain and wipe on poly. :-(
Just kidding Tom -- recall the hit squad. (sheesh -- just a joke!) But
what I did do was used Deft -- fruitwood colour -- which according to
Flexner acts more like a die -- does not obscure the grain and can be
topcoated by a finish more resistant to water and alcohol. This is used
to bring the cherry to a more consistent colour instead of waiting and
praying to the colour gods for a favourable transition. A rather neat
trick... And it does seem to work as I did this on the lamps I made with
no seeming ill effect, now I know _why_ it works.

Anyway -- I found it very useful particularly in the recommended finish
charts (comparing finish characteristics) , notes on compatible stains
and top coats, compatible dyes and top coats etc.

Other useful charts identify many common finishes as to their
components. This is really useful when you wish to get good grain "pop
out" but need to top coat to protect.

One of the problems he points out -- through comparison charts is that
you can get good transparency through oil, or oil/varnish combinations,
or you can get good protection -- but you can't get both without using
conversion finishes (professional finishes) and losing repairability. In
other words -- you can't win. Something I have long suspected.


...and well worth the $20 in CDN pesos. Save me money in wasted effort
already, and in understanding why some of my WAG's worked. (And why some
would not have if I had tried them and wasted the project...)

(Toller -- maybe a dye would have popped the curly cherry -- maybe not
but worth a try...)



If you get it, hope it helps you as much as it helps me.

This blurb is from the Lee Valley site...

---------------------------------------------
Understanding Wood Finishing

Understanding Wood Finishing - Woodworking
by Bob Flexner

This is clearly the best-researched, most complete book on finishing
that we have seen to date.

Flexner stresses understanding the chemistry and mechanics of finishing,
developing in his readers not only a knowledge of what materials and
techniques work for a given finishing problem, but why they work and how
they work. He debunks myths, gives valuable tips, and presents numerous
tabulations of problems with their solutions in a clear, usable format.

All readily available finishes are covered, from their history,
composition and chemical behavior through application and repair
techniques and relative merits, with advice on how to assess which is
best for any situation.

Flexner's straightforward prose, well illustrated with color and
black-and-white photographs and drawings, makes this book a complete
education in finishing

I like Flexner's book. He actually seems to know what he is talking about,
rather than just repeating what he has heard.

But, I don't entirely agree with his claim that BLO can't be considered a
finish. For items that won't get wet or see much use, it is enough of a
finish. I just did a large cherry cabinet, putting BLO everywhere, and a
few coats of varnish where it might get some wear. It was too large for the
basement stairs, so my son and I carried out the walkout basement door,
slightly scraping it on a rock in the process. A little fresh BLO, you
can't tell where the scrapes were. Try that with Varnish. (maybe shellac,
but Flexner doesn't think too much of shellac either.)

I "think" dye would have obsured the curl on the curly cherry, but it would
certainly be worth experimentation.

toller wrote:
I like Flexner's book. He actually seems to know what he is talking ab=
out,=20
rather than just repeating what he has heard.
=20
But, I don't entirely agree with his claim that BLO can't be considered=
a=20
finish. For items that won't get wet or see much use, it is enough of =
a=20
finish. =20

Yah maybe so. The Minwax antique oil I have learned to like is=20
varnish/blo and it looks great on oak and cherry I have found.

The Deft (Polymerized tung) I mentioned seems to be pretty nice as well.

You're right -- seems to be a matter of protection -- and water=20
resistance mostly. Should be safe on book shelves and entertainment centr=
es.



I just did a large cherry cabinet, putting BLO everywhere, and a=20
few coats of varnish where it might get some wear. It was too large fo=
r the=20
basement stairs, so my son and I carried out the walkout basement door,=
=20
slightly scraping it on a rock in the process. A little fresh BLO, you=
=20
can't tell where the scrapes were. =20


Yeah repairs are the other issue. I have repaired varnish -- pita... Oil =

is much simpler -- agreed.


Try that with Varnish. (maybe shellac,=20
but Flexner doesn't think too much of shellac either.)
=20

Not true saw some sample finishes using shellac in this book iirc.


I "think" dye would have obsured the curl on the curly cherry, but it w=
ould=20
certainly be worth experimentation.=20

The Deft Tung Oil showed up some curl in the cherry and the maple on my=20
latest jewel box -- will post pictures on my site later tonite. Did not =

show up as well as a dye would have -- but then I did not even know it=20
was present...


=20
=20


--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw

David wrote:
I'll go out on a limb and state that most of us here like Flexner's boo=
ks.
=20
Dave
=20
WillR wrote:
=20

Yah figger eh? :-)

This one was particularly good I thought. Lot of info there for people=20
who have never done wood finishing courses or really thought about it.

If you can think of any others -- by anyone -- I want to expand the=20
library a bit -- other than one other book on faking -- er I mean=20
repairing ( complete with old time materials lists) -- antiques this is=20
the only one I have.

--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw

I'd recommend Finishes & Finishing Techniques - Taunton Press. Jeff
Jewitt and others are included in this book from Fine Woodworking
articles. You'll get diverse opinions from each author, on some minor
points.

If you spray finishes, then Andy Charron's Spray Finishing is informative.

Dave

WillR wrote:

David wrote:

I'll go out on a limb and state that most of us here like Flexner's
books.

Dave

WillR wrote:


Yah figger eh? :-)

This one was particularly good I thought. Lot of info there for people
who have never done wood finishing courses or really thought about it.

If you can think of any others -- by anyone -- I want to expand the
library a bit -- other than one other book on faking -- er I mean
repairing ( complete with old time materials lists) -- antiques this is
the only one I have.

WillR wrote:


The Deft (Polymerized tung) I mentioned seems to be pretty nice as well.
I thought Deft was a brushing lacquer. But it has been a long time
since I used it. Am I thinking of something else?

The Deft Tung Oil showed up some curl in the cherry and the maple on my
latest jewel box -- will post pictures on my site later tonite. Did not
show up as well as a dye would have -- but then I did not even know it
was present...

Okay. Looks like you are talking about Deftoil? Looking at their web
page leaves you wondering exactly what it is. I don't see anything
saying that it is polymerized Tung Oil. On the product page at
http://www.deftfinishes.com/wood/deftoil.htm they say it is a
penetrating Tung Oil and Urethane mix. on the spec sheet at
http://www.deftfinishes.com/wood/protech/deftoil.htm it says that the
resin type is "Linseed Oil, Oil Modified Urethane"

BTW, the Deft I was thinking of is their clear wood finish, a brushing
lacquer.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

alexy wrote:
WillR wrote:



The Deft (Polymerized tung) I mentioned seems to be pretty nice as well.

I thought Deft was a brushing lacquer. But it has been a long time
since I used it. Am I thinking of something else?


Yes, as you note below.

I found the Flexner book good because it identifies the finish contents
as best he can -- and gives you methods for figuring out what you have
when the container does not have sufficient information.



The Deft Tung Oil showed up some curl in the cherry and the maple on my
latest jewel box -- will post pictures on my site later tonite. Did not
show up as well as a dye would have -- but then I did not even know it
was present...


http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,190,42942

I was referring to this one -- it's actually a combination as you note:

-------------------------------
A. This tung oil and urethane resin formula penetrates deeply and builds
easily using a brush, rag or rubbing pad.

Suitable for interior wood floors, furniture, cabinets, paneling, etc.,
it seals the wood and creates a durable finish that resists water and
alcohol.

It should be applied, left 30 minutes, then excess wiped off. Subsequent
coats can be applied after as little as 60 minutes. Allow at least 24
hours drying time before use.

Finished surfaces can be overcoated with lacquer, polyurethane or wax
for added protection if desired. Available in clear natural and in six
other tints.
----------------------------


Okay. Looks like you are talking about Deftoil? Looking at their web
page leaves you wondering exactly what it is. I don't see anything
saying that it is polymerized Tung Oil. On the product page at
http://www.deftfinishes.com/wood/deftoil.htm they say it is a
penetrating Tung Oil and Urethane mix. on the spec sheet at
http://www.deftfinishes.com/wood/protech/deftoil.htm it says that the
resin type is "Linseed Oil, Oil Modified Urethane"


Yes I have both here and have been using both. I was unclear on that...

Flexner (and the can) lists the Danish Oil as Tung Oil/Varnish -- with
Asphaltum as the dye/stain. Thought it was polymerized -- maybe not


BTW, the Deft I was thinking of is their clear wood finish, a brushing
lacquer.

That one: Yes I will try it in the future....
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...at=1,190,42942


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

David wrote:
I'd recommend Finishes & Finishing Techniques - Taunton Press. Jeff
Jewitt and others are included in this book from Fine Woodworking
articles. You'll get diverse opinions from each author, on some minor
points.

If you spray finishes, then Andy Charron's Spray Finishing is informative.

Dave

WillR wrote:

David wrote:

I'll go out on a limb and state that most of us here like Flexner's
books.


Thanks -- I'll look at them. No spraying yet.

12 X 20 shop. Little small for that so far.



--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

WillR wrote:

alexy wrote:

BTW, the Deft I was thinking of is their clear wood finish, a brushing
lacquer.

That one: Yes I will try it in the future....

I was very pleased with its ease of application and the results. And a
piece I finished with it 25 years ago still looks good. But I work
in a basement shop with little ventilation, so I haven't used Deft
Clear Wood Finish in a long time. Your REALLY need ventilation with
this stuff.

--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.