All,

I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

Thanks,
Ben

Interesting thet the D4 marketing literature say "Through dovetails
1/8" to 1-1/4" thick" with no mention of a limitation.

Reading the D4 documentation it actually shows a limit for the tail
board as 1" with info for up to 1 1/4" for pins [Table 15-6 page 134].
To go thicker than 1" on the tails you will have to use some method
other than the Leigh D4. Here are some ideas. I think if it were at all
possible to do it with the jig they would tell you how.

1. Use the D4 to cut the pins then use them to layout the tails and cut
them by hand.
2. Do the whole thing by hand.
3. You could do them with 5/4 on the long sides and 4/4 on the short
sides if you are building rectangular boxes or even if you aren't.
Symetrical is more common but not a requirement. You could even mix it
up more and build some smaller boxes too, with thinner pieces to add
some character to the whole set of boxes.
4. You could get real creative and have all 4 sides step down, bevel
down or taper down on one side or symetricially to 1" in the last few
inches at each end. If they had a square 1/4" step on the outside, this
would provide some nice locations to kind of lock in the boxes as they
stack in certain configurations.

Are you sure your material will still be greater than 1" after planing
and smoothing?

Cut the dovetails with Leigh as deep as it will cut, then finish the
cuts with a backsaw??

John

On 23 May 2005 10:11:28 -0700, wrote:

All,

I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

Thanks,
Ben

wrote:

All,

I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

Thanks,
Ben


Can you get by with half blind dovetails? The look will be
different but the joint will be plenty strong..

OR - box/finger joints? You can get spiral upcut or down
cut bits that will cut 1 1'4".

charlie b

You are mixing two different measurement terms. 5/4 is a lumberman's term
used to denote the thickness of unsurfaced lumber. 5/4 stock after finishing
both surfaces is typically 1inch thick. Isn't that what you need as the
maximum for your D4 jig? Maybe you should get out your ruler and actually
measure the thickness of your stock before deciding that you have a problem.
If it's been surfaced on both sides and it measures 1 1/4 inches thick, then
it was likely 6/4 lumber in it's rough state. If it measures 1 inch after
surfacing both sides, then it was likely 5/4 thick in it's rough dimension.

Ok, now tell us how thick your stock really is by measuring it. Don't use
lumberman's terms, but actual dimensions.

--
Charley




wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

Thanks,
Ben

wrote:
All,

I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently
was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not
plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

Thanks,
Ben


FWIW, I did this project for the first time a long long time ago using
3/4 lumber (phillippian mahogany and piranha pine) and standard 1/2"
drawer dovetails. This combination has help without exception for 30
years of rough usage. This boxes 1'x 1' and 1'x 3' have supported my
weight on numerous occasions, and I can assure you I dynamic weight
puts more stress on the unit than any number of stationary books, even
if stacked to the ceiling. For these reasons, my most recent effort
used 1/2 piranha pine. These 1/2 inchers have support books five feet
high for almost a decade. All in all, I would think use 5/4 lumber is
overspecing, expecially if it is hardwood.

"Charley" wrote in message
. com...
You are mixing two different measurement terms. 5/4 is a lumberman's term
used to denote the thickness of unsurfaced lumber. 5/4 stock after
finishing
both surfaces is typically 1inch thick. Isn't that what you need as the
maximum for your D4 jig? Maybe you should get out your ruler and actually
measure the thickness of your stock before deciding that you have a
problem.
If it's been surfaced on both sides and it measures 1 1/4 inches thick,
then
it was likely 6/4 lumber in it's rough state. If it measures 1 inch after
surfacing both sides, then it was likely 5/4 thick in it's rough
dimension.

Ok, now tell us how thick your stock really is by measuring it. Don't use
lumberman's terms, but actual dimensions.

--
Charley



Ben,

I edited the above message using my new ANTI-CONDESCENDING a.k.a. ANTI-HIGH
AND MIGHTY filter for your convienence.

ARE You are mixing two different measurement terms? 5/4 is a lumberman's
term
used to denote the thickness of unsurfaced lumber. 5/4 stock after
finishing
both surfaces is typically 1inch thick. IS that what you need as the
maximum for your D4 jig?

STRIKE THE FOLOWING: (Maybe you should get out your ruler and actually
measure the thickness of your stock before deciding that you have a
problem.)

REPLACE WITH: Did you measure your stock thickness?

If it's been surfaced on both sides and it measures 1 1/4 inches thick, then
MAYBE it was
6/4 lumber in it's rough state. If it measures 1 inch after surfacing both
sides,
then MAYBE it was 5/4 thick in it's rough dimension.











wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

Thanks,
Ben

Cut 'em by hand. I'm not familiar with the Leigh D4 as I don't own one.
I do know I get great satisfaction and great results by cutting them by
hand.
Cheers,
cc

wrote in message
ups.com...
All,

I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

Thanks,
Ben

phadras wrote
All,
I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

James \"Cubby\" Culbertson wrote:
Cut 'em by hand. I'm not familiar with the Leigh D4 as I don't own one.
I do know I get great satisfaction and great results by cutting them by
hand.

Gotta agree with Cubby. I was given a DT/FJ jig for my router,
and I haven't used it yet. Routers are too noisy and the jig
seems like a real pain to set up. A DT saw and a marking gauge
are fast and don't care how thick the wood is. A #71 and some
planes take care of the rest of the things that I'd use a router
for. Mine haven't been touched in years.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

It's definitely 5/4. I measured it. I went with the thick stock because
I'm copying a piece that I saw in a furniture store. You're right, I'm
sure it's overkill from a structural standpoint but I like the way it
looks.

So what exactly would I need to cut these by hand? From what I have
gathered, I need a dovetail saw, some sort of guide and a nice set of
chisels. I have none of the above. Recommendations?

Thanks for the help,
--b

Glad to see I'm not the only one stuck in the dark ages! I actually find a
hand cut dovetail looks better than the machine cut ones. Where did all
the Neander's go anyway!


Gotta agree with Cubby. I was given a DT/FJ jig for my router,
and I haven't used it yet. Routers are too noisy and the jig
seems like a real pain to set up. A DT saw and a marking gauge
are fast and don't care how thick the wood is. A #71 and some
planes take care of the rest of the things that I'd use a router
for. Mine haven't been touched in years.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...
Glad to see I'm not the only one stuck in the dark ages! I actually find
a hand cut dovetail looks better than the machine cut ones. Where did
all the Neander's go anyway!

We didn't go any place. We just have not developed the skills yet. I
admire the guys that can cut them, I'll never be one of them. The brain
knows how, but the hands just don't follow.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...
Glad to see I'm not the only one stuck in the dark ages! I actually find
a hand cut dovetail looks better than the machine cut ones. Where did
all the Neander's go anyway!

We didn't go any place. We just have not developed the skills yet. I
admire the guys that can cut them, I'll never be one of them. The brain
knows how, but the hands just don't follow.

Unless you practice, practice, practice, that is...

It'll come if you do that. I was taught in HS shop by the "trick" that
everyday we came to class we had cut one before doing anything else.
The neat thing is all other usages of similar skills come along at the
same time.

James "Cubby" Culbertson wrote:
Glad to see I'm not the only one stuck in the dark ages! I actually find a
hand cut dovetail looks better than the machine cut ones. Where did all
the Neander's go anyway!

I'm not a Neander, but I do use hand tools, and I hand cut dovetails
when I think I should.

It all depends on the piece!

Barry

newman wrote:
snip
So what exactly would I need to cut these by hand? From what I have
gathered, I need a dovetail saw, some sort of guide and a nice set of
chisels. I have none of the above. Recommendations?

The first thing you're going to need is practice and a cheap
hardwood, NOT pine, to practice on. 1X4 Poplar should do the
trick. Since you don't have handtools apparently, you probably
don't have an appropriate bench with a decent vise to hold the
wood. Perhaps the place to start is: What handtools DO you
have. The second question is how much money and time are you
interested in spending on learning to use neander methods of doing
things. The third question is: what are the antique stores like
in your area, and 4th, WHERE are you?

To answer your question, You'll need a marking guage, a dovetail
saw preferebly, a tenon saw otherwise, a marking knife (pencils
really won't do) and a straightedge, a vise attached to something
SOLID, a set of chisels (Sears, Marples or better) - NOT Buck or
Benchtop, possibly a coping saw = matter of taste. And a
sharpening system of some sort. You may have some of these
already. You may want to check Jeff Gorman's site:
http://www.amgron.clara.net/dovetails/dovetailindex.htm and
Charlie B's as well:
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...ilDrawer0.html and
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...lDrawer17.html

That should give you an idea of what's going on with doing it by
hand as well as with neandering.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

In article . com,
wrote:
All,

I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

Thanks,
Ben


I am not familiar with using the Leigh jig, but would it be possible
to rabbet the pin board to 1" at the pins and cut the tailboard to
match?


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

James \"Cubby\" Culbertson wrote:
Glad to see I'm not the only one stuck in the dark ages! I actually find a
hand cut dovetail looks better than the machine cut ones. Where did all
the Neander's go anyway!

Still around, just hard to hear them over the screaming routahs.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

wrote:
All,

I am new to the dovetailing game and I need some advice. I recently
was
given a Leigh D4 as a graduation gift and am attempting to make some
boxes. The boxes will have 4 sides only (i.e. no bottom or top) and
will be used as modular storage in my new apartment. I will be using
through dovetails to join them.

According to the Leigh manual, the maximum thickness of the pin board
is 1" but the stock I have is 5/4". What dovetail/straight bit
combination do I need to join these thick pieces? I'd rather not
plane
it down as I like the look of the very thick walls.

Here's what I would do: Plane em down to 1", route the dovetails,
build the box, then build up the edge with a tapered wedge maybe 1-2"
wide, going from 0 thick to 1/4", and glue them so the 1/4" is on the
inside of the box making it appear to be 5/4" thick.

Done right I think it would also add additional style to the piece,
rather than just being a box.

I *love* my D4. For through dovetails it takes 5 minutes to set the
thing up. Just make sure you route them a *bit* deeper than the
thickness of the board so you can sand them smooth after they're glued
up. DON'T try to make them perfectly flush.

For half blind, it takes a bit more setup since you only get one shot
to make them fit (with through DTs, you can creep up on the fit). What
I recommend is that you make a test pair of boards so the next time you
do a half blind, it takes just a minute to adjust everything.

I can understand why someone would want to cut them by hand, but I
don't have the patience or time to learn to cut them equivalent to the
quality of the D4.

Duane Bozarth wrote:


Unless you practice, practice, practice, that is...

I'd like to add that "warming up" a less frequently used hand skill on
some poplar or basswood is a technique that not many take advantage of.
Musicians, athletes, public speakers... they all do it, why not
woodworkers? G

I put warming up right up there with making step-by-step test boards for
a finish.

Barry

James \"Cubby\" Culbertson wrote:
Cut 'em by hand. I'm not familiar with the Leigh D4 as I don't own one.
I do know I get great satisfaction and great results by cutting them by
hand.

Gotta agree with Cubby. I was given a DT/FJ jig for my router,
and I haven't used it yet. Routers are too noisy and the jig
seems like a real pain to set up. A DT saw and a marking gauge
are fast and don't care how thick the wood is. A #71 and some
planes take care of the rest of the things that I'd use a router
for. Mine haven't been touched in years.

Dave in Fairfax
--


And if you're going to cut them by hand this may be helpful
Though it describes how to make a dovetailed drawer the
dovetail parts are applicable.
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...ilDrawer0.html

If you're going to do them by hand be aware that some
of the "dovetail" saws have a limited depth of cut. In
my case, while doing the joinery for the apron of my
"real" workbench, I had to get a tenon saw since the parts
were close to 3 inches thick

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...CBbench23.html

You can also cut them on a bandsaw. The tailes
are fairly easy -the pins require a means of
tilting the stock.

Try hand cutting - it's fun. MAKE SURE YOUR MARK
THE WASTE SIDE!
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/OOPS/OOPS1.html

enjoy!

charlie b

charlie b wrote:


If you're going to do them by hand be aware that some
of the "dovetail" saws have a limited depth of cut. In
my case, while doing the joinery for the apron of my
"real" workbench, I had to get a tenon saw since the parts
were close to 3 inches thick

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...CBbench23.html

You can also cut them on a bandsaw. The tailes
are fairly easy -the pins require a means of
tilting the stock.

I had luck with a real low-tech means of tiling the stock when doing
my bench: milled a 1/2 inch scrap of stock and carpet taped it so that
the inside edge was 4" from the other edge of my workpiece, so what
was resting on my BS table was one edge of the wokpiece, with this
scrap raising the other edge of the workpiece. Result: a 1:8 slope.
Then move the scrap to 4 inches from the other edge to get the other
side of the pin. Much simpler than the jigs I have seen for
dovetailing, and with very thick and not very wide stock, I was not
worried about lack of support under the cut.

Try hand cutting - it's fun. MAKE SURE YOUR MARK
THE WASTE SIDE!
But that is not sufficient. The next step is to cut out the part you
marked. DAMHIKT!! I saved my piece with X's clearly marked on the
"pushtails" I left. I plan to mount it over my bench as a reminder
that a supposedly foolproof method is no match for a superior caliber
of fool! ;-)


P.S. I enjoy your web site. Nice job. Well written and designed.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

thanks for the wonderful advice. i think the biggest obstacle to me
cutting them by hand is a solid work bench. there seems to be more
pushing and pulling involvled with the by-hand method. once i get
settled (moving to portland, or) i will most definitely allocate some
space for a super-sturdy work bench.

back to the original problem: i've taken the boards back to my shop and
had half planed down to 1". the tail boards will therefore be 1/4"
thinner than the pins. i think they'll look nice nonetheless.

i've been playing around with the leigh and gotten some good results
with some 3/4" oak. i've never really worked with anything other than
pine or plywood before (i got into woodworking by way of carpentry and
framing).

i have two questions:
1. the saw "dust" looks more like splinters or long shavings. is that a
property of the oak?
2. my router bits (ok, i'm using the one's that came with the leigh for
my test runs. i got some CMTs for the real deal) chatter quite a bit as
they're moving through the stock. is that normal?

thanks for the help! you guys/gals rock.

--b

replying to phadras, Johnny R Rowland wrote:
Nice handsaw...

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodwo...ood-18422-.htm

On Sunday, August 16, 2020 at 10:44:04 AM UTC-4, Johnny R Rowland wrote:
replying to phadras, Johnny R Rowland wrote:
Nice handsaw...


Nice calendar.