Hey everyone, I have decided to move on to waterstones for sharpening,
using the scary sharp system has become too tedius because of the length
of time it takes, I have tardive disconesia (a nerve disease) in my hands
and forearms, not good for the more finite muscle control and it hurts. I
read that waterstones cut much faster than anything else, which sounds
good to me.

I have been looking at stones online here and there, have seen the Norton
ones, and they seem too high in cost for the double grits though they are
the right width at 3". This would be good considering wider blades. With
those two stones, Craftsmanstudio.com will throw in the stone holder for
free. Still too much in actual dollars there at $99.50, but I have seen many
Japanese stones at really decent prices, in every grit and nominal size
imaginable.

Anyone have the ideal plan of purchase for budget and size I could follow,
for wider stones and decent quality? I don't know which stones wear down
faster or slower... "what sould I buy???"

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

I have the Norton stones 1000, 4000, and 8000 grit. A full set will
cost close to $200 dollars if you include a Veritas pond (a must, IMHO)
from Lee Valley. I have heard that Shapton are good too. You can find
cheaper, but probably not in the wider size and of less quality.

I dont know how much faster they will cut than SS though.

Since you mentioned a nerve disease, I would take a serious look at a
Tormek system, which is a slow-grind water based grinder.

Silicon carbide paper cuts about as fast as anything you can get. I don't
think you are going to see any speed advantage.
"AAvK" wrote in message
news:f6dce.5010$_o.4823@fed1read03...

Hey everyone, I have decided to move on to waterstones for sharpening,
using the scary sharp system has become too tedius because of the length
of time it takes, I have tardive disconesia (a nerve disease) in my hands
and forearms, not good for the more finite muscle control and it hurts. I
read that waterstones cut much faster than anything else, which sounds
good to me.

I have been looking at stones online here and there, have seen the Norton
ones, and they seem too high in cost for the double grits though they are
the right width at 3". This would be good considering wider blades. With
those two stones, Craftsmanstudio.com will throw in the stone holder for
free. Still too much in actual dollars there at $99.50, but I have seen
many
Japanese stones at really decent prices, in every grit and nominal size
imaginable.

Anyone have the ideal plan of purchase for budget and size I could follow,
for wider stones and decent quality? I don't know which stones wear down
faster or slower... "what sould I buy???"

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

I'm all for the shaptons. They last long. Here is what I wrote about them:
http://masamiki.com/mono/tools/sharpening.htm
No matter how fast they cut I'm not sure they are going to help your
condition.
I'd consider using a machine.

-j



"AAvK" wrote in message
news:f6dce.5010$_o.4823@fed1read03...

Hey everyone, I have decided to move on to waterstones for sharpening,
using the scary sharp system has become too tedius because of the length
of time it takes, I have tardive disconesia (a nerve disease) in my hands
and forearms, not good for the more finite muscle control and it hurts. I
read that waterstones cut much faster than anything else, which sounds
good to me.

I have been looking at stones online here and there, have seen the Norton
ones, and they seem too high in cost for the double grits though they are
the right width at 3". This would be good considering wider blades. With
those two stones, Craftsmanstudio.com will throw in the stone holder for
free. Still too much in actual dollars there at $99.50, but I have seen
many
Japanese stones at really decent prices, in every grit and nominal size
imaginable.

Anyone have the ideal plan of purchase for budget and size I could follow,
for wider stones and decent quality? I don't know which stones wear down
faster or slower... "what sould I buy???"

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

"Bob in Oregon" writes:

Since you mentioned a nerve disease, I would take a serious look at a
Tormek system, which is a slow-grind water based grinder.

Woodcraft has a motorized waterstone for about $80 on sale for May.


--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:05:29 -0700, "AAvK" wrote:

Hey everyone, I have decided to move on to waterstones for sharpening,
using the scary sharp system has become too tedius because of the length
of time it takes, I have tardive disconesia (a nerve disease) in my hands
and forearms, not good for the more finite muscle control and it hurts. I
read that waterstones cut much faster than anything else, which sounds
good to me.

Be aware the waterstones will also need flattening more often as
quicker cutting = faster wear.


Steve Jensen
Abbotsford B.C.
Surfing along at 19200 bps since 95.
BBS'ing since 1982 at 300 bps.
WW'ing since 1985

Nothing catchy to say, well maybe.....
WAKE UP - There are no GODs you fools!

I just made the change from SS to shaptons. They cut WAY faster than
SC sandpaper. They also make a much sharper tool. You can spend less
than a minute on teh 5000 stone and then move to the 8000 stone and
spend a few seconds. Using microbevels like Charlesworth teaches on
his videos.

On the low end of shaping I would use a machine with your condition,
but my 1000 grit shapton takes iron off faster than my courser
diasharp. You can see the scratches from the diamond are larger than
the scratches from the 1000 shapton.

If the budget allows a 220 shapton would REALLY hog off the material.

But you have to be ablet to flatten the stones. I use the diasharp for
this, so all in I have about $270 in:

1000 shapton
5000 shapton
8000 shapton
course diasharp stone

I'm thinking of adding the 11000 and the 220 to my arsenal. They are
really that impressive.

Alan

I have so much money tied up in waterstones, Veritas pond and a
220/400 diamond stone for lapping and fast grinding that I should have
cut to the chase and bought the Tormek System.
I can get stuff scary sharp with the waterstones and it has been
a "right of passage" learning to do the work that gets my tools sharp
and from that aspect I am glad I have the skill to do it that way. If
you used the "scary sharp" method you understand the work involved. Let
a machine do the work for you especially since you have problems with
wrists and hands.
Get the Tormek period. You can end up with $800 worth of Tormek
stuff but you don't have to buy all the jigs up front and it works
great. Order the video if you aren't sure. It will be $10-15 well spent
before you decide the wrong way.
Robert Smith
Jacksonville, Fl.

arw01 wrote:
I just made the change from SS to shaptons. They cut WAY faster than
SC sandpaper. They also make a much sharper tool.

I'm fully equipped with waterstones and diamond plates but got to try
Shapton stones during a class. If I was starting from scratch, I'd go
with the Shaptons. They really are that good.

Barry

"Scorp" wrote in message
...

Be aware the waterstones will also need flattening more often as
quicker cutting = faster wear.

It takes me about 1-2 minutes per stone. I don't think its that big a deal.
I use a 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper glued to a sheet of glass.

Bob

Bob - I have to second the opinions on the Tormek system. I've used
oilstones and waterstones for years for my sharpening (mostly chisels and
plane irons - no turning or carving implements). Bought the Tormek at the
last wookworking show a few months ago. Went through and resharpened
everything in my tool cabinet in an afternoon. The hair on my arm where I
tested each blade is just starting to grow back. It was easy and consistent.
And especially for my plane irons, very easy to get a nice perpendicular
edge set on the blade.
In some ways I feel like I've copped out and taken the easy way to sharpen,
but after thinking about it - why not do it the easy way. Best $400 bucks
I've spent in my shop in a long time.

Gary in KC


"Bob in Oregon" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have the Norton stones 1000, 4000, and 8000 grit. A full set will
cost close to $200 dollars if you include a Veritas pond (a must, IMHO)
from Lee Valley. I have heard that Shapton are good too. You can find
cheaper, but probably not in the wider size and of less quality.

I dont know how much faster they will cut than SS though.

Since you mentioned a nerve disease, I would take a serious look at a
Tormek system, which is a slow-grind water based grinder.

AAvK wrote:
Hey everyone, I have decided to move on to waterstones for
sharpening,
using the scary sharp system has become too tedius because of the
length
of time it takes, I have tardive disconesia (a nerve disease) in my
hands
and forearms, not good for the more finite muscle control and it
hurts. I
read that waterstones cut much faster than anything else, which
sounds
good to me.

Yeah, waterstones cut pretty fast and a lot of people say the Shaptons
cut the fastest and wear the longest. I've got a set of Shaptons, and
in my opinion they do cut faster - but not by a lot. Your arms and
fingers are still going to get a workout, believe me.

If your intention is making your woodworking life easier, I'd say get a
Tormeck. I think it'll be a little slower, certainly more money and
there's probably a whole new learning curve, but I bet you'd save a lot
of wear and tear on your arms.

In fact, your sort of situation is about the only thing that would make
me consider the Tormeck system or something like it. It looks like it
would do the job just as well as the combination of a good set of
stones, practice, and elbow grease. If'n it hurt to apply the elbow
grease, I wouldn't like woodworking so much.

My hat's off to ya. Hang in there.

you might want to watch this video

http://www.shaptonstones.com/stones/.../dmdmovie.html

Woodcraft has a motorized waterstone for about $80 on sale for May.


That is interesting, there are a few others out there the same including Sears
but they are all copies of the original Makita which is much more expensive,
I'd bet they come out of the same factory. They all only have both 1000 and
400 grit 7" wheels, with only 2 actual inches cutting width unless the rounding
distance is used with a knife jig. the woodcraft one is a nice 440 rpm, the Sears
is 550. I just don't have the room for a machine.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

I have so much money tied up in waterstones, Veritas pond and a
220/400 diamond stone for lapping and fast grinding that I should have
cut to the chase and bought the Tormek System.
I can get stuff scary sharp with the waterstones and it has been
a "right of passage" learning to do the work that gets my tools sharp
and from that aspect I am glad I have the skill to do it that way. If
you used the "scary sharp" method you understand the work involved. Let
a machine do the work for you especially since you have problems with
wrists and hands.
Get the Tormek period. You can end up with $800 worth of Tormek
stuff but you don't have to buy all the jigs up front and it works
great. Order the video if you aren't sure. It will be $10-15 well spent
before you decide the wrong way.
Robert Smith
Jacksonville, Fl.


Yeah, me knowing German "me", I would get the Tormek no problem, but I
do not have the room or that much $$$... awesome looking machine. I saw
it being used at a Rockler store recently, VERY slow spinning, well made.
I am only looking to spend about $100.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Silicon carbide paper cuts about as fast as anything you can get. I don't
think you are going to see any speed advantage.


Oh yes! Even the diff between SS and Arkansas oil stones is too good and too
much. I tried it at the adult ed. shop with their Ark stone and an india. If water
stones are faster than the oil stones, that's the way to go big bro...

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

I'm all for the shaptons. They last long. Here is what I wrote about them:
http://masamiki.com/mono/tools/sharpening.htm
No matter how fast they cut I'm not sure they are going to help your
condition.
I'd consider using a machine.

-j


So, I have $100 only, I couldn't afford the three grits you initialy bought as
in your page, in the M5 range I could get a 180 - 2000 - 5000 as I've priced,
would that work effectively? Do you know the cheapest place to grab'em?

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Be aware the waterstones will also need flattening more often as
quicker cutting = faster wear.

Steve Jensen


I have read that too, I found the cheapest flattening stone of good size is made
by Norton for 24.95 right he http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/ rather
than the usual $70... I think drywall screen can be used, and low grit papers.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

It takes me about 1-2 minutes per stone. I don't think its that big a deal.
I use a 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper glued to a sheet of glass.

Bob


May I ask, what adhesive do you use? I have 3m super 77 and it is definitely
not waterproof.

--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

"AAvK" wrote in message
news:PuAce.32$_K.28@fed1read03...

It takes me about 1-2 minutes per stone. I don't think its that big a
deal.
I use a 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper glued to a sheet of glass.

Bob


May I ask, what adhesive do you use? I have 3m super 77 and it is
definitely
not waterproof.

I use 3m super 77 adhesive with 3m wetordry 220 grit sandpaper. I've never
had any problem with it coming loose when I use it to flatten waterstones.

Bob

"AAvK" wrote in message news:4qAce.29$_K.7@fed1read03...

I'm all for the shaptons. They last long. Here is what I wrote about
them:
http://masamiki.com/mono/tools/sharpening.htm
No matter how fast they cut I'm not sure they are going to help your
condition.
I'd consider using a machine.

-j


So, I have $100 only, I couldn't afford the three grits you initialy
bought as
in your page, in the M5 range I could get a 180 - 2000 - 5000 as I've
priced,
would that work effectively? Do you know the cheapest place to grab'em?

I haven't used a 180 but it seems like the jump between 180 and 2000 would
be a bit much. I'd go 320, 1000, 5000.

On Mon, 02 May 2005 03:05:20 +0000, BillyBob wrote:

May I ask, what adhesive do you use? I have 3m super 77 and it is
definitely
not waterproof.

I use 3m super 77 adhesive with 3m wetordry 220 grit sandpaper. I've never
had any problem with it coming loose when I use it to flatten waterstones.

AAvK: try spraying both the paper and the substrate with 77. Let it get
tacky, then affix the paper. Water will still loosen it in time, but it's
much better than just spraying the paper.

( I just got a dmt full-coating "stone" for lapping. Bye-bye paper.)

--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com