Hi fellow woodworkers,
I use man-made waterstones (800, 1000, 4000 and 8000) since five years and I
am fully satisfied.
Two months ago, I acquired a Honyama grade A natural finishing waterstone
from Lee Valley. I though I could achieve a mirror polish on my japanese
handplanes with this stone. I make a slurry with the nagura stone as I do
with the 8000 stone.
Curiously, I cannot obtain a better polish than with my 4000 stone. In fact,
I get a slightly better surface than with the 1000 stone.

Do you think this is normal given this stone is grade A?

Thanks,
Claude

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:05:42 -0500, "CLiver"
wrote:

Hi fellow woodworkers,
I use man-made waterstones (800, 1000, 4000 and 8000) since five years and I
am fully satisfied.
Two months ago, I acquired a Honyama grade A natural finishing waterstone
from Lee Valley. I though I could achieve a mirror polish on my japanese
handplanes with this stone. I make a slurry with the nagura stone as I do
with the 8000 stone.

you don't always get a mirror polish with waterstones. a mirror polish does not
mean sharp.
nothing wrong with lee valley but if your after natural waterstones you should
go to a japanese store. like www.japanesetools.com or www.misugidesigns.com

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Hi Steve,
A mirror polish does not mean sharp? I understand that what seems a mirror
surface to the naked eye is in fact a surface with abrasion marks too small
to be seen. If both sides of a blade show a mirror surface, the blade should
be sharp.
I know that you have a great experience in sharpening japanese blades for
your excellent palnes.
My point is that I am surprized to be unable to obtain a better finish with
this naturel finishing stone than with a 2000 man-made stone.

Thanks,

Claude

"Steve Knight" a écrit dans le message de
...
you don't always get a mirror polish with waterstones. a mirror polish
does not
mean sharp.
nothing wrong with lee valley but if your after natural waterstones you
should
go to a japanese store. like www.japanesetools.com or
www.misugidesigns.com

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

In article ,
says...
A mirror polish does not mean sharp? I understand that what seems a mirror
surface to the naked eye is in fact a surface with abrasion marks too small
to be seen. If both sides of a blade show a mirror surface, the blade should
be sharp.

Not if they're parallel surfaces :-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:34:08 -0500, "CLiver"
wrote:

Hi Steve,
A mirror polish does not mean sharp? I understand that what seems a mirror
surface to the naked eye is in fact a surface with abrasion marks too small
to be seen. If both sides of a blade show a mirror surface, the blade should
be sharp.
a mirror means the metal is shiny (G) before I got shapton stones my blades were
not shiny but just as sharp. You can get real shiny with stropping but you won;t
have as sharp of edge if you use a good fine waterstone or oilstone. the media
is what seems to give a shine or not. but so far I have found if you use the
right grits to sharpen you get the same edge with different media but you may
not get the polish. the tool will only get so sharp and that's it no matter how
fine of grit you go to.

I know that you have a great experience in sharpening japanese blades for
your excellent palnes.
My point is that I am surprized to be unable to obtain a better finish with
this naturel finishing stone than with a 2000 man-made stone.

natural japanese stones are getting pretty rare and are not as good of quality
as they used to be. so the stone may just not be up to the job. that's hard to
say without trying it. I only used a natural stone in a medium grit so I could
not say how they finish.
but I don't see a better edge from the cloudy one I got with a 8000 from japan
woodworker and the shiny mirror surface I get from a shapton.
sandpaper tends to give a shine too.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

You won't get a mirror finish with natural stones. They leave a "mat"
finish. I usually go from my 5000 man made ceramic to the natural for
a final hone. If I'm reading this correctly, you feel that because of
the "finish" you're seeing, you think the natural stone is taking you
back a step. Sorta like the natural stone is around 2000 grit. I
usually grade my naturals on how fine an edge I get, through trying
them on several of my blades. It's all subjective, but I check the
sharpness coming off my 5000, then off the naturals by seeing how
easily I can take shave off my fingernail. The natural stone edge
takes the least effort. I can also tell while pulling the plane.
Waterstones are a different animal since there's no consistent rating
system. At least I've never seen consistency. That's why I prefer to
try natural stones before buying. I have a feeling that "try before
you buy" is the way it was traditionally done in Japan. The person I
used to buy my stones from would ask what type of stone I was looking
for, pull out a bunch of stones and a bucket of water. I'd hone my
blades til I found the stone(s) I wanted. This guy was a transplant
from Japan who set up an import business in California.


"CLiver" wrote in message ...
Hi Steve,
A mirror polish does not mean sharp? I understand that what seems a mirror
surface to the naked eye is in fact a surface with abrasion marks too small
to be seen. If both sides of a blade show a mirror surface, the blade should
be sharp.
I know that you have a great experience in sharpening japanese blades for
your excellent palnes.
My point is that I am surprized to be unable to obtain a better finish with
this naturel finishing stone than with a 2000 man-made stone.

Thanks,

Claude

"Steve Knight" a écrit dans le message de
...
you don't always get a mirror polish with waterstones. a mirror polish
does not
mean sharp.
nothing wrong with lee valley but if your after natural waterstones you
should
go to a japanese store. like www.japanesetools.com or
www.misugidesigns.com

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

....as you would get with a "Blanchard" grinder????

http://www.fpmiller.com/UsedMachines...asp?tagno=L-67



"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
A mirror polish does not mean sharp? I understand that what seems a
mirror
surface to the naked eye is in fact a surface with abrasion marks too
small
to be seen. If both sides of a blade show a mirror surface, the blade
should
be sharp.

Not if they're parallel surfaces :-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

Thanks Manny.
I'm not sure that Robin would let me try his stones before buying. ;-)
I will continue to explore the question and to try different blades with
this stone.
Toshio Odate says that natural stones give different results with different
blades.
Claude

Listen to Steve on this one as it's true. You'll get a mirror finish
on lower grit sandpaper sooner than with a higher grit waterstone but,
the matte finish on the higher grit waterstone is sharper. I've
noticed this while re-establishing the bevel of my plane blades using
sandpaper. The bevel would start taking a mirror shine after 600 grit
sandpaper, but wasn't as sharp as the 1000 grit waterstone which left
a matte finish. I suspect that the slurry and the dulling sandpaper
tended to polish the surface more without really sharpening the edge
appreciably.

Layne

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:00:55 GMT, Steve Knight
wrote:

you don't always get a mirror polish with waterstones. a mirror polish does not
mean sharp.
nothing wrong with lee valley but if your after natural waterstones you should
go to a japanese store. like www.japanesetools.com or www.misugidesigns.com

I used to watch a program called Soka Ga Shiritai back in Hawaii. It
was a magazine show. Once they profiled a man who sole trade was
making and selling natural waterstones. It was a one-man shop and
every day he'd go out on his bicycle, it's basket filled with stones
and he'd go door to door selling his stones in the local town.

FWIW, the best sushi chefs are purists when it comes to sharpening
their knives and only use natural waterstones. Ever try slicing raw
fish with a dull knife? Can't be done! :-) You need a really really
sharp knife...a knife sharper than a scapel.

On 20 Feb 2004 09:17:28 -0800, (Manny)
wrote:

system. At least I've never seen consistency. That's why I prefer to
try natural stones before buying. I have a feeling that "try before
you buy" is the way it was traditionally done in Japan. The person I
used to buy my stones from would ask what type of stone I was looking
for, pull out a bunch of stones and a bucket of water. I'd hone my
blades til I found the stone(s) I wanted. This guy was a transplant
from Japan who set up an import business in California.

something that wasn't mentioned. (my late 2c) is that with Natural
Waterstones the "pureness" (every grain actually that grit designation) of
the grit cannot be controlled like it can in a man made Waterstone.

--


"CLiver" wrote in message
. ..
Hi fellow woodworkers,
I use man-made waterstones (800, 1000, 4000 and 8000) since five years and
I
am fully satisfied.
Two months ago, I acquired a Honyama grade A natural finishing waterstone
from Lee Valley. I though I could achieve a mirror polish on my japanese
handplanes with this stone. I make a slurry with the nagura stone as I do
with the 8000 stone.
Curiously, I cannot obtain a better polish than with my 4000 stone. In
fact,
I get a slightly better surface than with the 1000 stone.

Do you think this is normal given this stone is grade A?

Thanks,
Claude

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:54:30 -0500, "CLiver"
wrote:

Toshio Odate says that natural stones give different results with different
blades.

I don't use my natural stones for sharpening woodworking tools, just
man-made.

But for polishing swords, where you're after the visible surface
effect, particularly in highlighting the different grain structures of
the steel, then naturals are essential.

--
Smert' spamionam