As I like to tell my wife sometimes: "I can make that".



"David F. Eisan" wrote in message
...
Was I the only one who noticed that the Popes casket was made of Pine and
had Dovetailed corners?

I wonder who made it?

David F. Eisan wrote:

Was I the only one who noticed that the Popes casket was made of Pine and
had Dovetailed corners?

I wonder who made it?



It was not pine, but cypress.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

"David F. Eisan" wrote in message
...
Was I the only one who noticed that the Popes casket was made of Pine and
had Dovetailed corners?

I wonder who made it?




Actually he was put in a Cypress casket, that was put in a Lead casket and
finally those were put in an Elm casket. The Elm being the outer of the 3.

"Leon" wrote in message


Actually he was put in a Cypress casket, that was put in a Lead casket and
finally those were put in an Elm casket. The Elm being the outer of the
3.


I guess the material depends on the news network.

cypress is a constant

Second layer is either lead or zinc, or just a lining of the outer casket.

Outer casket is either Walnut, Oak, or Elm. It may or may not be lined with
the above metal.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

I noticed the same thing... Very nice dovetail joints, and the cypress will
last for a very long time. I didn't know about the outer shells in
lead/zinc and Elm. I would have expected it to be more ornate, but perhaps
the outer shells are -- still haven't seen them.

X_HOBBES


"David" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 03:53:08 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"David F. Eisan" wrote in message
...
Was I the only one who noticed that the Popes casket was made of Pine
and
had Dovetailed corners?

I wonder who made it?




Actually he was put in a Cypress casket, that was put in a Lead casket
and
finally those were put in an Elm casket. The Elm being the outer of the
3.

I guess they really want to make sure he doesn't get out of that sucker.

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 23:27:54 -0700, "David F. Eisan"
wrote:

Was I the only one who noticed that the Popes casket was made of Pine and
had Dovetailed corners?

I wonder who made it?

Local artisans, I guess. I'll bet the Vatican is a big enough
organisation to have a few on the staff.

According to the TV I watched, it was Cypress. Doesn't matter, it
won't be burnt!

Barry Lennox

Was I the only one who noticed that the Popes casket was made of Pine and
had Dovetailed corners?

I wonder who made it?

David F. Eisan wrote:
Was I the only one who noticed that the Popes casket was made of Pine and
had Dovetailed corners?

I wonder who made it?




I thought the same thing. Must have been an awesome feeling to be
making that particular box. Would love to find out more.

In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Second layer is either lead or zinc

Hopefully zinc... lead wouldn't be too healthy.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

According to the Ass Press. The inner is Cypress, second is zinc and the
outer Walnut.
These are supposed to slow down the decomp process.

Searcher1

I don't think the Pope has to worry about his health much anymore.


"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Second layer is either lead or zinc

Hopefully zinc... lead wouldn't be too healthy.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 11:02:37 GMT, "Searcher1"
wrote:

According to the Ass Press. The inner is Cypress, second is zinc and the
outer Walnut.
These are supposed to slow down the decomp process.

Trying to put off the inevitable, even in death.

X_HOBBES wrote:
I noticed the same thing... Very nice dovetail joints, and the
cypress will last for a very long time. I didn't know about the
outer shells in lead/zinc and Elm. I would have expected it to be
more ornate, but perhaps the outer shells are -- still haven't seen
them.

X_HOBBES

[snip]

Not sure about anything more ornate since the actual spaces for burial are
very limited. Maybe this is a case when bigger is not better.

Josie

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 05:55:49 -0700, Wes Stewart wrote:

Trying to put off the inevitable, even in death.

I just don't understand why they didn't hook his meat up to life support
and keep him from rotting for twelve years or so, like he insisted happen
to Schiavo. Doesn't matter if you're braindead, gotta preserve the meat.

--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com

"David" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:21:44 -0400, "firstjois"
wrote:

X_HOBBES wrote:
I noticed the same thing... Very nice dovetail joints, and the
cypress will last for a very long time. I didn't know about the
outer shells in lead/zinc and Elm. I would have expected it to be
more ornate, but perhaps the outer shells are -- still haven't seen
them.

X_HOBBES

[snip]

Not sure about anything more ornate since the actual spaces for burial are
very limited. Maybe this is a case when bigger is not better.

The Pope requested to be buried in the earth. An unusual request.
Earth is in very short supply at the Vatican.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4424477.stm The link shows the
coffin being lowered into the crypt. Everyone seems agreed the inner coffin
is cypress but judging by the picture the whole thing can't be THAT heavy as
the coffin is suspended between two aluminium scaffold towers spanned with a
wooden beam as it's lowered into the crypt. So it can't be lead can it...?
so zinc. Difficult to say what the outer coffin is made of but it does look
like oak.

grumble

In article , Australopithecus scobis wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 05:55:49 -0700, Wes Stewart wrote:

Trying to put off the inevitable, even in death.

I just don't understand why they didn't hook his meat up to life support
and keep him from rotting for twelve years or so, like he insisted happen
to Schiavo. Doesn't matter if you're braindead, gotta preserve the meat.

She wasn't brain-dead.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 03:53:08 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"David F. Eisan" wrote in message
...
Was I the only one who noticed that the Popes casket was made of Pine and
had Dovetailed corners?

I wonder who made it?




Actually he was put in a Cypress casket, that was put in a Lead casket and
finally those were put in an Elm casket. The Elm being the outer of the 3.


Howdy,

According to many news reports:

Cypress -- Zinc -- Walnut.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:gzY5e.17147
to Schiavo. Doesn't matter if you're braindead, gotta preserve the meat.

She wasn't brain-dead.

As well, the pope's body was failing in a number of ways. Total life support
would not have been possible either.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
Australopithecus scobis wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 05:55:49 -0700, Wes Stewart wrote:

Trying to put off the inevitable, even in death.

A while ago they moved John XXIII's body, that's the grave where
they're planting JP II. I suppose whomever had that task was grateful
if a similar arrangement had been made for the previous tenant.


I just don't understand why they didn't hook his meat up to life
support
and keep him from rotting for twelve years or so, like he insisted
happen
to Schiavo. Doesn't matter if you're braindead, gotta preserve the
meat.

She wasn't brain-dead.


Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

--

FF

In article . com, wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false. When the autopsy results are released, then
we'll see. Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:

In article . com, wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false. When the autopsy results are released, then
we'll see. Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

Brain stem functions only, non-cognitive...and certainly no more
conjectural than your contention.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false.

No, not conjecture, CAT-Scan imagery. "Probably false" is probably
a bald-faced lie.

When the autopsy results are released, then
we'll see.

One presumes she did not grow a new brain between the time the scan
was done and the autopsy. I suspect your surces will discount the
autopsy results, claiming they are part of conspiracy or some such.

Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart
beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

False. Only the brain stem is required for breathing and heartbeat.
No higher brain functions are involved.

Anencephalic infants can have a heartbeat and breath reflex without
any external support. They don't HAVE a higher brain.

--

FF

wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false.

No, not conjecture, CAT-Scan imagery. "Probably false" is probably
a bald-faced lie.

When the autopsy results are released, then
we'll see.

One presumes she did not grow a new brain between the time the scan
was done and the autopsy. I suspect your surces will discount the
autopsy results, claiming they are part of conspiracy or some such.

Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart
beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

False. Only the brain stem is required for breathing and heartbeat.
No higher brain functions are involved.

Anencephalic infants can have a heartbeat and breath reflex without
any external support. They don't HAVE a higher brain.

But are not Brain Dead. Brain Dead is a medical term denoting the absence
of ALL electrical activity in the brain. If you are breathing, you've got
electrical activity.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
Conjecture, and probably false. When the autopsy results are released,
then
we'll see. Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

Some portion of the brain did function. What is not know (at least not yet)
is what portions did and was she able to comprehend anything. While some
body function continued, was she still "alive" and what determines "life" as
we define it. Long philosophical, theological and physiological debates will
continue for years on this matter.

In article ,
says...
Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.


Well, that's true. But only if you count the "reptile" brain. That's
what controls the automatic functions. That's not the part that does
any thinking.

And, like you, I suggest we wait for the autopsy report. Of course,
whatever it is, one side will claim it was faked. I wouldn't want to be
that coroner :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

Lobby Dosser wrote:
wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead
brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her
higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false.

No, not conjecture, CAT-Scan imagery. "Probably false" is probably
a bald-faced lie.

When the autopsy results are released, then
we'll see.

One presumes she did not grow a new brain between the time the scan
was done and the autopsy. I suspect your surces will discount the
autopsy results, claiming they are part of conspiracy or some such.

Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart
beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

False. Only the brain stem is required for breathing and
heartbeat.
No higher brain functions are involved.

Anencephalic infants can have a heartbeat and breath reflex without
any external support. They don't HAVE a higher brain.

But are not Brain Dead. Brain Dead is a medical term denoting the
absence
of ALL electrical activity in the brain. If you are breathing, you've
got
electrical activity.


A google search makes it clear that there is no medical consensus on
the meaning of "brain death".

--

FF

I sort of wonder what purgatory it would be, for a soul to be tied to a
body/mind that but for the active interference of man, would have,
should have died years ago.

My prayers for both Terri and the Pope were answered. That she be
allowed to die, and meet her fate in the afterlife, and that the Pope
would not be hooked up and kept alive past his proper time.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message

Conjecture, and probably false. When the autopsy results are released,
then
we'll see. Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.


Some portion of the brain did function. What is not know (at least not yet)
is what portions did and was she able to comprehend anything. While some
body function continued, was she still "alive" and what determines "life" as
we define it. Long philosophical, theological and physiological debates will
continue for years on this matter.

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:13:24 -0400, Kenneth
wrote:

According to many news reports:

Cypress -- Zinc -- Walnut.

According to many others:

Cypress-- Zinc -- Oak.

I've also seen:

Cypress-- Zinc -- Pine, or Pine -- Zinc -- Cypress.

How many news reporters are able to identify woods by sight? To me it
looked like it could be either oak or pine, but almost certainly not
walnut.

Your guess is as good as mine at this point.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

wrote:


A google search makes it clear that there is no medical consensus on
the meaning of "brain death".



http://www.miaims.missouri.edu/~neuromedicine/braindeath.shtml

is an example.

FWIW, there is no 'medical consensus' on Anything.

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false. When the autopsy results are released, then
we'll see. Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

Brain stem functions only, non-cognitive...and certainly no more
conjectural than your contention.

It's a matter of established fact, not conjecture, that her respiration and
heartbeat continued without the assistance of a machine.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article .com, wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false.

No, not conjecture, CAT-Scan imagery. "Probably false" is probably
a bald-faced lie.

I believe that there is some dispute over what that CAT scan actually showed.
As I said...

When the autopsy results are released, then
we'll see.

One presumes she did not grow a new brain between the time the scan
was done and the autopsy. I suspect your surces will discount the
autopsy results, claiming they are part of conspiracy or some such.

When the autopsy results are released, then we'll see.

Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart
beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

False. Only the brain stem is required for breathing and heartbeat.
No higher brain functions are involved.

Not false at all. You evidently don't understand what "brain-dead" means.

Anencephalic infants can have a heartbeat and breath reflex without
any external support. They don't HAVE a higher brain.

That is NOT the same as being brain-dead.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false. When the autopsy results are released, then
we'll see. Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

Brain stem functions only, non-cognitive...and certainly no more
conjectural than your contention.

It's a matter of established fact, not conjecture, that her respiration and
heartbeat continued without the assistance of a machine.

That is a non-cognitive function of the brain stem...you're relying on
there being any function whereas the chance of any cognitive recovery
was hopeless as the pictures shown of brain scans taken several years
prior clearly showed, as earlier posted noted, atrophying of the the
brain itself. While a tragic situation, there was absolutely no hope of
anything better.

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false. When the autopsy results are released,
then
we'll see. Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

Brain stem functions only, non-cognitive...and certainly no more
conjectural than your contention.

It's a matter of established fact, not conjecture, that her respiration and
heartbeat continued without the assistance of a machine.

That is a non-cognitive function of the brain stem...

But it's also a clear demonstration that the brain is not *dead*.

you're relying on
there being any function whereas the chance of any cognitive recovery
was hopeless as the pictures shown of brain scans taken several years
prior clearly showed, as earlier posted noted, atrophying of the the
brain itself. While a tragic situation, there was absolutely no hope of
anything better.

I think that's still somewhat a matter of dispute. The autopsy should lay
those questions to rest.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:
....
I think that's still somewhat a matter of dispute. The autopsy should lay
those questions to rest.

Don't know how a picture showing essentially nothing remaining in the
cavity could leave it in much dispute.

As someone else noted, there undoubtedly will be those who'll continue
to claim those results are wrong, too...too many are seeing this through
their belief system rather than their logical minds.

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
....
I think that's still somewhat a matter of dispute. The autopsy should lay
those questions to rest.

Don't know how a picture showing essentially nothing remaining in the
cavity could leave it in much dispute.

I hear conflicting reports about what the pictures actually show. I haven't
seen them myself; have you?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article . com,
wrote:

Indeed, Terri Shiavo was beyond brain-dead, much of the dead
brain
tissue had been absorbed into her body. What was left of her
higher
brain was severely atrophied. She was nearly anencephalic.

Conjecture, and probably false. When the autopsy results are
released, then
we'll see. Evidence so far indicates that she was not brain-dead:
unquestionably, she was able to breathe on her own, and her heart
beat,
without assistance of machinery. Brain-dead people can't do that.

Brain stem functions only, non-cognitive...and certainly no more
conjectural than your contention.

It's a matter of established fact, not conjecture, that her
respiration and
heartbeat continued without the assistance of a machine.


It is a matter of fact, not conjecture, that heartbeat and respiration
are brain stem functions.

--

FF

Doug Miller wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
....
I think that's still somewhat a matter of dispute. The autopsy
should lay
those questions to rest.

Don't know how a picture showing essentially nothing remaining in
the
cavity could leave it in much dispute.

I hear conflicting reports about what the pictures actually show. I
haven't
seen them myself; have you?


Google is your friend:

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archive...chiavos-brain/

http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/codebl...dblogs_co.html

--

FF

Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his
butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Lobby Dosser wrote:
wrote:


A google search makes it clear that there is no medical consensus
on
the meaning of "brain death".



http://www.miaims.missouri.edu/~neuromedicine/braindeath.shtml

is an example.

FWIW, there is no 'medical consensus' on Anything.

Thanks. That is the most clear and thorough I have seen.

It would seem that Mr Miller is correct, "brain death" can
refer to cessation of all brian activity, including brainstem.

That doesn't change my opinion on the legal, ethical, and moral
correctness of the various court decisions. The courts had two
witnesses, one of them her husband, who testified as to Ms
Schiavo's wishes. Those wishes were well within the realm of
commonly accepted.

--

FF

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...

I hear conflicting reports about what the pictures actually show. I
haven't
seen them myself; have you?


Yep, or what purported to be. Showed fluid where the brain used to be.

I see blood intruding in MRI/CT fairly often, so if they were hers, she was
bad off.

wrote in message
oups.com...
It's a matter of established fact, not conjecture, that her
respiration and
heartbeat continued without the assistance of a machine.


It is a matter of fact, not conjecture, that heartbeat and respiration
are brain stem functions.


Was teaching a class of EMTs-to-be one night and used evolution of the organ
to help understand the brain and the sites for various functions. Had a
couple of sour-lookers out in the class, so I checked with some of the
others. SDAs apparently don't accept evolution. Stem is really the first
electrical center, and takes care of almost all autonomic functions.
Somatic higher, then some senses and sensibility on top.

When I gave the evolution of the mammalian heart as a key to understanding
the various electrical paths, they looked sour again, but the rest said it
made things easier to understand....