Ok, I REALLY like this TV stand. I like the proportions and the way the top
just seems to float. But here's the thing... There is nothing holding that
top flat, and only a very narrow piece on the bottom for support. This
thing is 72" long and is supposed to hold a few hundred pounds in stereo
equipment and flatscreen TV. So how do they keep it from warping in the
middle? Any ideas?

Has anyone seen this piece in person and have a clue about how it works?

http://www.greendesigns.com/index.ht...living/neehi72 is the website
of the folks who manufacture this piece. They claim to have a patented
joinery system so that this whole unit just slides together and is joined
without screws, nails, etc. by dovetail construction

Would a couple of 3/4x 3" supports dovetailed into the bottom shelf be
sufficient to hold this thing up?

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:20:58 GMT, "Soby1" wrote:

Ok, I REALLY like this TV stand. I like the proportions and the way the top
just seems to float. But here's the thing... There is nothing holding that
top flat, and only a very narrow piece on the bottom for support. This
thing is 72" long and is supposed to hold a few hundred pounds in stereo
equipment and flatscreen TV. So how do they keep it from warping in the
middle? Any ideas?

Has anyone seen this piece in person and have a clue about how it works?

http://www.greendesigns.com/index.ht...living/neehi72 is the website
of the folks who manufacture this piece. They claim to have a patented
joinery system so that this whole unit just slides together and is joined
without screws, nails, etc. by dovetail construction

Would a couple of 3/4x 3" supports dovetailed into the bottom shelf be
sufficient to hold this thing up?



Holy ****! For 5k it better hold up your truck during oil changes..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I'm guessing that the huge tv you put on top of it will hold it flat.
Failing that (!!!?!!!), use 'buttons' along the front and rear length to
both fasten the top and allow for movement. The buttons are 3/4" squares of
wood with a tab that fit into a slot on the apron of the table.

Now, if it's *not* the top you're worried about warping, but the whole piece
sagging, I wouldn't worry. Tight joinery throughout should have a torsion
box effect to help resist sag. If the joinery is sloppy, however.....

good luck.

fwiw, I agree with macdavis.

jc

"Soby1" wrote in message
. net...
Ok, I REALLY like this TV stand. I like the proportions and the way the
top
just seems to float. But here's the thing... There is nothing holding
that
top flat, and only a very narrow piece on the bottom for support. This
thing is 72" long and is supposed to hold a few hundred pounds in stereo
equipment and flatscreen TV. So how do they keep it from warping in the
middle? Any ideas?

Has anyone seen this piece in person and have a clue about how it works?

http://www.greendesigns.com/index.ht...living/neehi72 is the website
of the folks who manufacture this piece. They claim to have a patented
joinery system so that this whole unit just slides together and is joined
without screws, nails, etc. by dovetail construction

Would a couple of 3/4x 3" supports dovetailed into the bottom shelf be
sufficient to hold this thing up?

"Soby1" wrote in message
. net...
Ok, I REALLY like this TV stand. I like the proportions and the way the
top
just seems to float. But here's the thing... There is nothing holding
that
top flat, and only a very narrow piece on the bottom for support. This
thing is 72" long and is supposed to hold a few hundred pounds in stereo
equipment and flatscreen TV. So how do they keep it from warping in the
middle? Any ideas?

Has anyone seen this piece in person and have a clue about how it works?

http://www.greendesigns.com/index.ht...living/neehi72 is the website
of the folks who manufacture this piece. They claim to have a patented
joinery system so that this whole unit just slides together and is joined
without screws, nails, etc. by dovetail construction

Would a couple of 3/4x 3" supports dovetailed into the bottom shelf be
sufficient to hold this thing up?


Well there is that bottom rail and I would be surprised if there was not a
top rail behind the drawers and doors and there could easily be support
rails attached to the middle on the bottom of the top. And the top appears
to be and inch or thicker material.

Keep in mind also that although it is 72 inches wide, the weight is being
supported by that portion of the top that is between the legs and that
appears to be closer to 60 inches.

"Soby1" wrote in message
. net...
Ok, I REALLY like this TV stand. I like the proportions and the way the
top
just seems to float. But here's the thing... There is nothing holding
that
top flat, and only a very narrow piece on the bottom for support. This
thing is 72" long and is supposed to hold a few hundred pounds in stereo
equipment and flatscreen TV. So how do they keep it from warping in the
middle? Any ideas?

Has anyone seen this piece in person and have a clue about how it works?

http://www.greendesigns.com/index.ht...living/neehi72 is the website
of the folks who manufacture this piece. They claim to have a patented
joinery system so that this whole unit just slides together and is joined
without screws, nails, etc. by dovetail construction

Would a couple of 3/4x 3" supports dovetailed into the bottom shelf be
sufficient to hold this thing up?

Did you look at the assembly pdf for the credeza, or the video? They both
give you a good idea of the casework that is apparently the basis of most of
their furniture. That said, their method appears to be driven by an
overriding concern, "Shipping".

Sliding dovetail joints seem to be the order of the day, although with the
span of their bigger pieces, there is another method which may better resist
sagging in the middle over time, which can be summed up in with the mantra:

"If a case part joins another at a corner, dovetail it; if one part meets
along another's length, use multiple through tenons"

.... an example of which, 67" wide, but much taller, can be seen at:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects13.htm

FWIW, this type of "casework construction" is what I personally would use to
duplicate your TV stand if longevity was a bigger concern than shipping, and
the method lends itself admirably to that particular design.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Soby1" wrote in message
. net...
Ok, I REALLY like this TV stand. I like the proportions and the way the
top
just seems to float. But here's the thing... There is nothing holding
that
top flat, and only a very narrow piece on the bottom for support. This
thing is 72" long and is supposed to hold a few hundred pounds in stereo
equipment and flatscreen TV. So how do they keep it from warping in the
middle? Any ideas?

Has anyone seen this piece in person and have a clue about how it works?

http://www.greendesigns.com/index.ht...living/neehi72 is the website
of the folks who manufacture this piece. They claim to have a patented
joinery system so that this whole unit just slides together and is joined
without screws, nails, etc. by dovetail construction

Would a couple of 3/4x 3" supports dovetailed into the bottom shelf be
sufficient to hold this thing up?





I guessing your talking about the top sagging from the weight of the TV. ,
pushing the bottom shelf down with.it. It dose look like that could happen .
Without really seeing it I think the question is there a support across
front to carry the weight of a TV. I'm sure the divides between the 3
spaces will help some . To me the problem would be in the front dipping down
in time. I just looked at the price I would consider taking a picture of
that to a cabinet shop and get a price on having bone made. Have you called
them and asked them about it?

Many thanks for the responses below. I did look at the video and plans for
the credenza and concluded it is the through dovetail construction that does
the trick. I appreciate the feedback. I am going to build this, but I
think I am going to hide some steel on the bottom to make sure this thing
never sags.

(That much work, I sure as heck don't want to see it fall down!) My current
TV stand has Tower of Piza syndrome from 20 years of all that weight and an
insufficient back. Don't want to see that again.

What do you do to set up such long through dovetails? I have a router table
and I think I can make the mortises... but the tenons would be a setup
nightmare, no? Will I need a 3hp router to remove that much material in 1
pass to make the mortises? And, should I do this with the table, or with a
jig? I almost think the jig would keep things straighter over 72".

It's a beautiful piece; I hope I can do it justice. I'm thinking of using
Cherry, just like they do.

- John



----- Original Message -----
From: "Charley"
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: TV Stand Help Needed




It doesn't look all that unique to me. It looks like they have sliding
dovetailed all four of the uprights so that they fit into blind dovetail
slots in the top that are made from the rear of the top forward (being
blind
dovetails, they don't show at the front edge). These dovetailed joints
extend all the way from the front to the back of the top in four places
and
they would easily keep the top very flat as well as attach the uprights.
They could be secured with a little glue at assembly, to help to keep the
pieces from sliding apart, although this would not be needed to achieve
the
required joint strength. The bottom is most likely dovetailed the same way
to connect it to the uprights and the basic box design of the piece
provides
a strong bridge type of support that will easily distribute the weight.
Sliding dovetails are incredibly strong when they are made correctly. I'm
sure that they would be able to easily carry this weight, keep the top
flat,
and hold the whole piece together forever. They are a common joinery
principle. Although seldom used in manufactured furniture, they are quite
common in custom built solid wood furniture. At this price, this is how
furniture should be made.

Charley




"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"Soby1" wrote in message
. net...
Ok, I REALLY like this TV stand. I like the proportions and the way the
top just seems to float. But here's the thing... There is nothing
holding
that top flat, and only a very narrow piece on the bottom for support.
This
thing is 72" long and is supposed to hold a few hundred pounds in stereo
equipment and flatscreen TV. So how do they keep it from warping in the
middle? Any ideas?

http://www.greendesigns.com/index.ht...living/neehi72 is the
website
of the folks who manufacture this piece. They claim to have a patented
joinery system so that this whole unit just slides together and is joined
without screws, nails, etc. by dovetail construction


Did you look at the assembly pdf for the credeza, or the video? They both
give you a good idea of the casework that is apparently the basis of most
of
their furniture. That said, their method appears to be driven by an
overriding concern, "Shipping".

Sliding dovetail joints seem to be the order of the day, although with the
span of their bigger pieces, there is another method which may better
resist
sagging in the middle over time, which can be summed up in with the
mantra:

"If a case part joins another at a corner, dovetail it; if one part meets
along another's length, use multiple through tenons"

... an example of which, 67" wide, but much taller, can be seen at:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects13.htm

FWIW, this type of "casework construction" is what I personally would use
to
duplicate your TV stand if longevity was a bigger concern than shipping,
and
the method lends itself admirably to that particular design.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Soby1" wrote

It's a beautiful piece; I hope I can do it justice. I'm thinking of using
Cherry, just like they do.

It is an ambitious piece, even for an experienced woodworker, but with good
research and planning you can certainly do it.

You've obviously understood the #1 engineering problem inherent in these
wide pieces by your questions: spanning without sag.

I've done a good deal of research on wide, four legged pieces, like
sideboards, most of which use frame and panel construction.

Even when done expertly, they can disappoint over time, with sag, doors that
won't close, and drawers that stick (one of the reasons why some of these
wider side boards have eight legs, although they are rarely as wide as these
pieces you seek to reproduce).

Once again, and IMO, you would be much better off using casework
construction and doing the casework out of a cabinet grade cherry plywood;
with the face frames, dividers, front of any drawer web, doors, drawer
fronts, and legs and top out of cherry.

If you practice good joinery methods, you will gain strength, and, at the
same time, seriously reduce the effects of wood's dimensional instability,
and sagging over time.

FWIW ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Ok, I REALLY like this TV stand. I like the proportions and the way the top
just seems to float. But here's the thing... There is nothing holding that
top flat, and only a very narrow piece on the bottom for support.

*snip*

If you look CLOSELY, you'll see that there are two pieces running vertically
front to back, just behind the edges of the doors.
There is also a solid shelf running beneath the drawer tying it altogether.

Kate

Kate wrote:

If you look CLOSELY, you'll see that there are two pieces running
vertically front to back, just behind the edges of the doors.
There is also a solid shelf running beneath the drawer tying it
altogether.

Those verticals will do little to keep the table from sagging.

I'm not saying the table will sag. I would estimate that you'd have to
concentrate a large amount of weight in the center of the table to get
it to sag. I'm just saying that neither the verticals or the shelf
will keep the middle from sagging under great weight.

In order to build in any significant amount of stiffness, those side
rectangles would need to be fully or at least partially blocked in one
fashion or another. I suspect that may be the case... along with
simply relying on the natural stiffness of the material.

Tight joinery will help... but not all that much.

Joe Barta

Joe Barta wrote:

Kate wrote:

If you look CLOSELY, you'll see that there are two pieces running
vertically front to back, just behind the edges of the doors.
There is also a solid shelf running beneath the drawer tying it
altogether.

Those verticals will do little to keep the table from sagging.

I'm not saying the table will sag. I would estimate that you'd have to
concentrate a large amount of weight in the center of the table to get
it to sag. I'm just saying that neither the verticals or the shelf
will keep the middle from sagging under great weight.

In order to build in any significant amount of stiffness, those side
rectangles would need to be fully or at least partially blocked in one
fashion or another. I suspect that may be the case... along with
simply relying on the natural stiffness of the material.

Tight joinery will help... but not all that much.

Joe Barta

Is it possible there is a hidden leg that is not visible from the angle
being viewed? If I were trying to create the illusion of floating, I'd
put a couple of legs in the middle, the front one located about mid-way
back so that you couldn't see it unless you got down on your knees and
looked back.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Joe Barta" wrote in message
.. .
Kate wrote:

If you look CLOSELY, you'll see that there are two pieces running
vertically front to back, just behind the edges of the doors.
There is also a solid shelf running beneath the drawer tying it
altogether.

Those verticals will do little to keep the table from sagging.

I'm not saying the table will sag. I would estimate that you'd have to
concentrate a large amount of weight in the center of the table to get
it to sag. I'm just saying that neither the verticals or the shelf
will keep the middle from sagging under great weight.

In order to build in any significant amount of stiffness, those side
rectangles would need to be fully or at least partially blocked in one
fashion or another. I suspect that may be the case... along with
simply relying on the natural stiffness of the material.

Tight joinery will help... but not all that much.

Joe Barta



Those big TV hardly weigh anything. Find out the load then do the
calculation with the current model and 3/4 top and 3/4 bottom and divide the
space in three you don't have much flex and will be stiffer than it needs to
be for the load.

My two cents, Rich

Ahhhhhhh....
I forgot about the BOTTOM of it sagging.

So, why not buy a new TV that doesn't weigh as much *WEG*

Kate

"Joe Barta" wrote in message
.. .
Kate wrote:

If you look CLOSELY, you'll see that there are two pieces running
vertically front to back, just behind the edges of the doors.
There is also a solid shelf running beneath the drawer tying it
altogether.

Those verticals will do little to keep the table from sagging.

I'm not saying the table will sag. I would estimate that you'd have to
concentrate a large amount of weight in the center of the table to get
it to sag. I'm just saying that neither the verticals or the shelf
will keep the middle from sagging under great weight.

In order to build in any significant amount of stiffness, those side
rectangles would need to be fully or at least partially blocked in one
fashion or another. I suspect that may be the case... along with
simply relying on the natural stiffness of the material.

Tight joinery will help... but not all that much.

Joe Barta

Mark & Juanita wrote:

Is it possible there is a hidden leg that is not visible from
the angle
being viewed? If I were trying to create the illusion of
floating, I'd put a couple of legs in the middle, the front one
located about mid-way back so that you couldn't see it unless you
got down on your knees and looked back.

If I recall, from other pictures on their web site, there were no
middle legs.

"Joe Barta" wrote in message
.. .
Mark & Juanita wrote:

Is it possible there is a hidden leg that is not visible from
the angle
being viewed? If I were trying to create the illusion of
floating, I'd put a couple of legs in the middle, the front one
located about mid-way back so that you couldn't see it unless you
got down on your knees and looked back.

If I recall, from other pictures on their web site, there were no
middle legs.


If you want hidden legs, watch for balance issues. When I built my stand
for a 32" HD with a CRT tube, I wanted the casters inset a bit so as not to
show. I put the 185 pound TV on top and it was just fine. Then I opened a
drawer and it tipped forward. Luckily, it was caught with no damage. With
plasma or lcd that is probably not a problem, but CRT's have most of the
weight up front.