I was rough hollowing a sweetgum bowl when about 1/2 inch deep I heard
and felt a whop-whop. Stopped the lathe and there was a cross section
of an 8 penny nail. My Benjamin's Worst bowl gouge had a couple of
notches in it. So I gets out my oland tool with the 1/4 inch tool
steel tip and continues the hollowing. When there was no more nail I
checked the edge of the tool. Still sharp and no notches. Sure beats
taking the bowl off the lathe and digging out the nail.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

If an experiment works, you must be
using the wrong equipment.

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:23:29 -0400, Gerald Ross wrote:

I was rough hollowing a sweetgum bowl when about 1/2 inch deep I heard
and felt a whop-whop. Stopped the lathe and there was a cross section
of an 8 penny nail. My Benjamin's Worst bowl gouge had a couple of
notches in it. So I gets out my oland tool with the 1/4 inch tool
steel tip and continues the hollowing. When there was no more nail I
checked the edge of the tool. Still sharp and no notches. Sure beats
taking the bowl off the lathe and digging out the nail.

Yep, I use the Oland tool so much that I've made a 2nd set in 3/8"....
Sometimes, it's just the tool to use and nothing else quite works..

I usually have 2 or 3 of each size handy and sharpen them all at the same time..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Gerald Ross wrote:
: I was rough hollowing a sweetgum bowl when about 1/2 inch deep I heard
: and felt a whop-whop. Stopped the lathe and there was a cross section
: of an 8 penny nail. My Benjamin's Worst bowl gouge had a couple of
: notches in it. So I gets out my oland tool with the 1/4 inch tool
: steel tip and continues the hollowing. When there was no more nail I
: checked the edge of the tool. Still sharp and no notches.


Any idea why? The BB tools are HSS. What sort of tip did you
have in the Oland tool? All the oland tool roll-yer-own instructions
I've seen use HSS as well.

-- Andy Barss

Andrew Barss wrote:
Gerald Ross wrote:
: I was rough hollowing a sweetgum bowl when about 1/2 inch deep I heard
: and felt a whop-whop. Stopped the lathe and there was a cross section
: of an 8 penny nail. My Benjamin's Worst bowl gouge had a couple of
: notches in it. So I gets out my oland tool with the 1/4 inch tool
: steel tip and continues the hollowing. When there was no more nail I
: checked the edge of the tool. Still sharp and no notches.


Any idea why? The BB tools are HSS. What sort of tip did you
have in the Oland tool? All the oland tool roll-yer-own instructions
I've seen use HSS as well.

-- Andy Barss

Maybe that the oland tip is sharpened at a more obtuse angle. Maybe it
is a different type steel.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

If an experiment works, you must be
using the wrong equipment.

On Jun 27, 5:18*pm, Gerald Ross wrote:


Maybe that the oland tip is sharpened at a more obtuse angle. Maybe it
is a different type steel.


I'll bet on #2. In Alan Lacer's metallurgy article last year he
found that one BB chisel (bought from Penn State) was M2 steel, while
one bought off eBay was not.
I've since heard that many Chinese made HSS steel chisels are M1 (ie
not up to M2 standards)

Ralph wrote:
On Jun 27, 5:18 pm, Gerald Ross wrote:

Maybe that the oland tip is sharpened at a more obtuse angle. Maybe it
is a different type steel.


I'll bet on #2. In Alan Lacer's metallurgy article last year he
found that one BB chisel (bought from Penn State) was M2 steel, while
one bought off eBay was not.
I've since heard that many Chinese made HSS steel chisels are M1 (ie
not up to M2 standards)

I hope you weren't surprised.

The next better material - harder to get in large bars I suspect -
is M42 - It is harder and stronger yet.

M1 is likely used on the grasses and light woods in China.
Grasses - bamboo...

M2 is a metal cutting steel like M42. It is used in wood for
the tough ones - those with silica.

I turn wood and metal and machine metal.

There are bowl gouges with short blunt edges while there is a
fingernail cut with long cutting/shearing edges.


Martin

Ralph wrote:
On Jun 27, 5:18 pm, Gerald Ross wrote:

Maybe that the oland tip is sharpened at a more obtuse angle. Maybe it
is a different type steel.


I'll bet on #2. In Alan Lacer's metallurgy article last year he
found that one BB chisel (bought from Penn State) was M2 steel, while
one bought off eBay was not.
I've since heard that many Chinese made HSS steel chisels are M1 (ie
not up to M2 standards)

On Jun 28, 6:59*pm, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:
The next better material - harder to get in large bars I suspect -
is M42 - It is harder and stronger yet.

M1 is likely used on the grasses and light woods in China.
Grasses - bamboo...

Every cut Bamboo, tough and gritty. Almost as bad as Rattan (I get
sparks off Rattan!!!!)

M2 is a metal cutting steel like M42. *It is used in wood for
the tough ones - those with silica.

D-way Tools uses M42. So far I like the quality

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:38:02 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
wrote:

Gerald Ross wrote:
: I was rough hollowing a sweetgum bowl when about 1/2 inch deep I heard
: and felt a whop-whop. Stopped the lathe and there was a cross section
: of an 8 penny nail. My Benjamin's Worst bowl gouge had a couple of
: notches in it. So I gets out my oland tool with the 1/4 inch tool
: steel tip and continues the hollowing. When there was no more nail I
: checked the edge of the tool. Still sharp and no notches.


Any idea why? The BB tools are HSS. What sort of tip did you
have in the Oland tool? All the oland tool roll-yer-own instructions
I've seen use HSS as well.

-- Andy Barss
In my experience, the Oland tip survives more abuse because of the cutting
angle, the narrow profile and the fact that it's basically a small, thick
scraper..
A bowl gouge has a flute and thin cutting edge and while it produces fine
shavings, it's also much more prone to dulling and nicking, IMO..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Any idea why? The BB tools are HSS. What sort of tip did you
have in the Oland tool? All the oland tool roll-yer-own instructions
I've seen use HSS as well.

-- Andy Barss
In my experience, the Oland tip survives more abuse because of the cutting
angle, the narrow profile and the fact that it's basically a small, thick
scraper..
A bowl gouge has a flute and thin cutting edge and while it produces fine
shavings, it's also much more prone to dulling and nicking, IMO..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
I have to agree with Mac. Even though the Oland is used as a cutting
tool, the edge has all the mass of a scraper behind it. Besides which, I
always use the same inserts for my Olands that the metal turners use.
They should be able to cut through a nail, they are made for it.

Darrell

Thanks for coming to my aid, Darrell, but you sure took your time
doing it! :)

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Somewhere in the world there's
somebody better than me, but I haven't
met him yet.

In article ,
"Bill Noble" wrote:

carbide is
amazing, but it's designed for very high pressures and feed rates that are
just not sensible in wood - but if you guys like it - great....

Bill, you seem to think we do what most of us don't - hardly anyone is
using carbide for Oland tools - we virtually all use HSS metalcutting
lathe tool bits, with the occasional foray into colbalt HSS. Carbide is
only of vary limited use in this application, and does not get used much
because of that - it does not get as sharp, it's more brittle, etc. You
might be able to bull through some low-grade rough cuts with it where it
not getting as dull as fast (after starting out duller than the HSS) was
of use, but sharp wins 99% of the time, so sharpening a HSS bit as
needed is the more common approach. Heck, I have a few plain carbon
tools that are useful because I can get them (or think I can) a tiny bit
sharper than HSS, and for the time that lasts, they can do things I need
done, better than HSS.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bill Noble" wrote:

carbide is
amazing, but it's designed for very high pressures and feed rates that
are
just not sensible in wood - but if you guys like it - great....

Bill, you seem to think we do what most of us don't - hardly anyone is
using carbide for Oland tools - we virtually all use HSS metalcutting
lathe tool bits, with the occasional foray into colbalt HSS. Carbide is
only of vary limited use in this application, and does not get used much
because of that - it does not get as sharp, it's more brittle, etc. You
might be able to bull through some low-grade rough cuts with it where it
not getting as dull as fast (after starting out duller than the HSS) was
of use, but sharp wins 99% of the time, so sharpening a HSS bit as
needed is the more common approach. Heck, I have a few plain carbon
tools that are useful because I can get them (or think I can) a tiny bit
sharper than HSS, and for the time that lasts, they can do things I need
done, better than HSS.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

aaah, I guess I misunderstood the discussion - somehow I understood that
carbide was used because it was "cutting through nails" - maybe I misread.
Anyway, I happen to agree with you RE tool steel - the softer steels
(specifically carbon steel) will take a finer edge - you can probably prove
this to yourself with a microscope, but you can certainly ell it making a
finsh cut - so just like you, I keep a few carbon steel tools around for
when I just can't get a decent finsh cut with the fancy alloy stuff.

In article ,
"Bill Noble" wrote:

aaah, I guess I misunderstood the discussion - somehow I understood that
carbide was used because it was "cutting through nails" - maybe I misread.

Unless they are concrete nails, HSS (or hardened plain carbon) cuts
nails (unhardened mild steel) perfectly well. I'll admit to being a bit
amazed when I found (early in my machine tool work) that you could cut
steel with steel, but by far the majority of work for a long time was
done (and in most hobby shops still is done) precisely that way -
hardened tool steel being a bit of a different animal than non-hardened
steel.

Concrete nails are a great source of pre-hardened steel for making micro
tools by grinding...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

......"the Oland tip survives more abuse because of the cutting
angle, the narrow profile and the fact that it's basically a small, thick
scraper..
A bowl gouge has a flute and thin cutting edge and while it produces fine
shavings, it's also much more prone to dulling and nicking, IMO..

DUDES,
I too agree with Mac and Darrell about the cutting angle of the Oland.
The direction of the forces put on the the tool, based on the cutting
angle, have a much greater crossectional area supporting the cutting
edge as compared with a typical scraper where the cutting angle and
forces can be almost perpendicular to the tool and so offers little
material behind the cutting edge.

And those nasty case hardened cement nails... recently tried to cut-
off those things using a saws-all. Couldn't do it. Just got smoke and
a dull blade. The nails were about 60+ years old. Seems like they'd be
hard to shape into a turning bit using a grinder but... guess you've
already proven that.

Thanks to all for keeping this group going!!
june, in Denver