I read and hear a lot these days that the ability to produce turned wood
fine art is not an inborn talent and anyone can do it. It just takes
hard work, perseverance and self confidence. Maybe so, but heretofore I
seemed to lack these attributes. They may be inborn themselves and if
so, I didn't inherit them. Just as I'm not a handsome movie star or
singer with a smooth larynx and rough personna or a tall/giant athletic
hero or any other combinaton of 'Genetic Multimillionaire' and notorious
'DNA Celebrity'.

I've been trying to think up some sort of turned wood form that I can
destruct to express my innermost feelings, my angst and anguish, my joys
and jubilations, my longings and laments. Something unique, never to
have been turned and injured before. Something that goes beyond mere
uselessness to serve as a voice for social change and all that. OK, an
artistic bowl.

I thought the long sought for and awaited epiphany had arrived; the
revelation that will make my life's work another small step for man, not
to mention a giant step for my wallet. You previously epiphanized
artists will understand. For the rest of you uninitiated, that's art
speak for "maybe this'll work". I sure hope so. I'm running out of ideas
(plus wood, lacquer and Lori's patience).

What is this Byzantine Abstraction that I've turned? This
Expressionistic, Cubist Modernism. This Impressionism that subtly
reveals hints of Baroque Realism and Pop Art? This Arch Nouveau, this
Romanticism, this 'Ism of 'Isms.

Enough of art speak for now, what oblate objet d' art that will be my
ticket into that august hallowed (hollowed) club did I turn?

Sorry rcw friends, Please forgive me. I'm too overcome to describe this
paragon, this icon of perfection just now. Actually I haven't made it
yet because Lori insists that I turn off rcw and take out the garbage. I
know you fellow artists will understand. For everyone else, there's
craft.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Feb 8, 10:25 am, (Arch) wrote:
I read and hear a lot these days that the ability to produce turned wood
fine art is not an inborn talent and anyone can do it.

Hey... how do you think I got here?

Sorry rcw friends, Please forgive me. I'm too overcome to describe this
paragon, this icon of perfection just now. Actually I haven't made it
yet because Lori insists that I turn off rcw and take out the garbage. I
know you fellow artists will understand. For everyone else, there's
craft.

Amen. A day in the life, eh Arch?

I have also suffered at the hands of lost artistry, trying from time
to time to create "my form" or to express "my voice" on the lathe.
But... with thousands of years of concentric or slightly non
concentric vessels, bowls, vases, boxes, cooking utensils, mallets,
ornamentations, jugs, bottles, treenware, cups, platters, plates,
storage containers, etc., it is hard to be truly original on the
lathe.

My artistic voice is one in the crowd and sometimes it seems like I
have seen the finished shape I have turned somewhere else.

But good sir, I have found something that satisfies my artistic bent
on two levels. One being the tragic inability to appreciate my own
work (ahem... a joke here for those not getting it) which leads to
tragedy. Like the French, it is almost better to lose you fight and
enjoy the romantic recollections of being "the little engine that
almost could" rather than to win.

So when I turn something out of a piece of dried hardwood that is
almost what I want, but not quite, I destroy it before finishing. I
was inspired to do this by a really great bio on Van Gogh, one that
said he used to suffer mental illnesses so badly that he ate his own
paint from time to time. In this bio they said they had to take his
paintings away from him as he was wont to destroy them after they were
finished.

I am trying to follow in his footsteps. Sadly, that means all of my
great art MAY have been burned. As to the quality of the pieces, I
guess I'll never know.

However, the second benefit (remember, there were a couple) is that
with certain woods, they add a lot to the smoker while it is going.
So while a pork shoulder or brisket is rendering away on the cooker, I
can relish the joy/pain/sorrow/romance of knowing that destroying my
work is in some way contributing to the well being of others, while
staying confused about "my direction" or its meaning.

Doing this, I can enjoy the angst of not finding my voice,
but I can get some good barbecue when it is all said and done.

;^)

Robert

wrote : (clip) However, the second benefit
(remember, there were a couple) is that
with certain woods, they add a lot to the smoker while it is going.
So while a pork shoulder or brisket is rendering away on the cooker, I
can relish the joy/pain/sorrow/romance of knowing that destroying my
work is in some way contributing to the well being of others, while
staying confused about "my direction" or its meaning. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The meat actually tastes better in proportion to the quality and artistic
merit of the broken pieces of wood used to provide the heat and smoke.
What? You don't believe this? Neither do my dinner guests, but I have
noted that they often have more favorable comments about the food than about
my turnings. Doesn't that tell you something?

In message , Arch
writes
I read and hear a lot these days that the ability to produce turned wood
fine art is not an inborn talent and anyone can do it. It just takes
hard work, perseverance and self confidence.

On turning wood and art

Turn a bowl, proclaim its name, art critics the world over will voice
its wonders and worthiness, its impact, the feelings it invokes. Leave
it un-named, and it will forever be merely a bowl

Its surprising how often art critics can elevate an object to stardom,
yet know nothing on creating art themselves.

If an object invokes feelings in but one person, then it is art, and let
none say otherwise.
--
John

Thanks Robert, ROTFLMAO!

Your post is important to us. Please stay on the ng and somebody will be
with you just as soon as they "get it". Keep the faith and keep on
burning. There's probably more art in our ash cans than in our
galleries. Who said, "speak for yourself, Arch" ?

If you do decide to follow in V.G.'s (Artists like you & me know him as
VG) footsteps and eat your bowls, be sure to look up 'food safe' (ie.
safe for you, not the bowl) in the rcw archives. I think there may have
been an inquiry or two about this subject over the ears. Sorry, I meant
years!

BTW, I finished my masterpiece and sold it for three dollars and 49
cents. To follow in VG's footsteps, I ate the sales tax. Eureka! That's
a dollar and four cents more than my 'turned for use' stuff usually
brngs in, tax included. I reckon I've arrived. I just don't know where.



Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Thanks Robert, Leo and John.

Here's a question that's less about art and more about turning for rcw's
simple craftsmen. I mean those that rotate their barbecue on Novas, Jets
and Deltas instead of on VB's, Stubbies and Oneways. You artists know
the type. Those humble craftsmen-turners with their greasy lathes and
useful bowls. Uggh!

Now to the question: Do you experts pull, chop or slice your barbecue?
Do you cut, skew, scrape or shearscrape the meat? Do you ride the skewer
or lead its flute? Is it shallow or deep, milled or forged?

I'm sure you turn the meat slowly using a gentle touch, but it's of
equal importance for newbies to learn who's bevel you guys grind on your
knives and forks and why. Hopefully these astute questions for you
experts will help the great uninformed.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Feb 8, 1:28 pm, (Arch) wrote:

If you do decide to follow in V.G.'s (Artists like you & me know him as
VG) footsteps and eat your bowls, be sure to look up 'food safe' (ie.
safe for you, not the bowl) in the rcw archives. I think there may have
been an inquiry or two about this subject over the ears. Sorry, I meant years!

Bada bump, *cymbal crash*!

Hiyo!!


BTW, I finished my masterpiece and sold it for three dollars and 49
cents. To follow in VG's footsteps, I ate the sales tax. Eureka!

It sounds like you have indeed arrived. I am still looking for you
though. (I'm the guy with his lathe set up next to the bbq pit for
easy access if you haven't put your eyes out as an alternate idea
after finding paint doesn't taste too good.)

That's
a dollar and four cents more than my 'turned for use' stuff usually
brngs in, tax included. I reckon I've arrived. I just don't know where.

Careful, Arch. You may be in the way to a successful second career.
A professional. If I had a nickel for every turner that thought he
was a professional because he sold a couple of things during the
year....

It is much better to be an artist, as you don't necessarily have to
generate income, be nice to people, keep any kind of schedule, or
explain your work. You can live with bizarre eccentricities, and no
matter how contrived and people will think it is a by product of
creative genius.

I am all for the artist gig. I am tired of working.

I know latex house paint doesn't taste to good.

But... I have been eye ballin' this one ear lately...

Robert

In message , Arch
writes
Thanks Robert, Leo and John.
Now to the question: Do you experts pull, chop or slice your barbecue?
Do you cut, skew, scrape or shearscrape the meat? Do you ride the skewer
or lead its flute? Is it shallow or deep, milled or forged?

I'm sure you turn the meat slowly using a gentle touch, but it's of
equal importance for newbies to learn who's bevel you guys grind on your
knives and forks and why. Hopefully these astute questions for you
experts will help the great uninformed.

Hey Arch

Being merely a beginner (6 months), in the art of barbecue
wood-shavings, and firewood, I still have lots to learn. I can make big
chips, and little, long shavings wide, and thin, and even dust clouds to
fill a room

I use my tools as a means to an end, if I can achieve what I want with a
tool I will use it, but always IT WILL (reminder to self) be sharp, and
used with a GENTLE (another reminder to self) touch.

Now should that bevel be 40, 60, 80 or 81degrees, at present I have no
preference, but believe that as time passes the bevel will find me for
each of the many different projects I undertake, as will the way for me
to hold my tools, the position I stand, there will be an ideal for me,
and that may not work for others. On that day it will be named Johns
grind.

I am a firm believer in cheap tools to start (but I emphasize not
dangerously cheap), as possibly 90% of the ability to create an item of
interest comes from skill, born from practice, and more practice. When I
reach that level, I will employ better tools to improve my ability. In
the mean time the extra practice in sharpening will, stand me in good
stead for when those expensive tools add themselves to my armoury, so if
I make a mistake now it will cost me little. My tru-grind will be
thoroughly put through its paces keeping up, but when those expensive
tools present themselves for their turn at the wheel, they will be
ground to Johns grind.

I can listen to other explain how to hold this tool, grind that tool, I
can watch a million videos or more, but I can really only learn the
theory that way, and its hands on and practice let the wood talk, it
will tell me which tool, and what grind, it and guide me to my
destination. The day will come when my skill and confidence is enough to
try and turn that 16inch x 6inch bowl outboard on my tiny little lathe,
where the slowest I can go is 400RPM, but on that day the tools will be
sharper than sharp, and the cuts less than the thickness of a hair.

Or maybe before that day a bigger more friendly lathe will be left by
Santa as he tours the globe, one cold winter night
--
John

Upon reading threads like this one I must ask myself if it is the turning I
enjoy or do I turn so I can better understand and enjoy these entertaining
posts. It's still an open question for me. Thank all of you for the fun.
Bob Tidwell
"Arch" wrote in message
...
I read and hear a lot these days that the ability to produce turned wood
fine art is not an inborn talent and anyone can do it. It just takes
hard work, perseverance and self confidence. Maybe so, but heretofore I
seemed to lack these attributes. They may be inborn themselves and if
so, I didn't inherit them. Just as I'm not a handsome movie star or
singer with a smooth larynx and rough personna or a tall/giant athletic
hero or any other combinaton of 'Genetic Multimillionaire' and notorious
'DNA Celebrity'.

I've been trying to think up some sort of turned wood form that I can
destruct to express my innermost feelings, my angst and anguish, my joys
and jubilations, my longings and laments. Something unique, never to
have been turned and injured before. Something that goes beyond mere
uselessness to serve as a voice for social change and all that. OK, an
artistic bowl.

I thought the long sought for and awaited epiphany had arrived; the
revelation that will make my life's work another small step for man, not
to mention a giant step for my wallet. You previously epiphanized
artists will understand. For the rest of you uninitiated, that's art
speak for "maybe this'll work". I sure hope so. I'm running out of ideas
(plus wood, lacquer and Lori's patience).

What is this Byzantine Abstraction that I've turned? This
Expressionistic, Cubist Modernism. This Impressionism that subtly
reveals hints of Baroque Realism and Pop Art? This Arch Nouveau, this
Romanticism, this 'Ism of 'Isms.

Enough of art speak for now, what oblate objet d' art that will be my
ticket into that august hallowed (hollowed) club did I turn?

Sorry rcw friends, Please forgive me. I'm too overcome to describe this
paragon, this icon of perfection just now. Actually I haven't made it
yet because Lori insists that I turn off rcw and take out the garbage. I
know you fellow artists will understand. For everyone else, there's
craft.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I should be enough to say to yourself "the wood told me what it wanted to
become and I followed it's wishes.


Bob
"Arch" wrote in message
...
I read and hear a lot these days that the ability to produce turned wood
fine art is not an inborn talent and anyone can do it. It just takes
hard work, perseverance and self confidence. Maybe so, but heretofore I
seemed to lack these attributes. They may be inborn themselves and if
so, I didn't inherit them. Just as I'm not a handsome movie star or
singer with a smooth larynx and rough personna or a tall/giant athletic
hero or any other combinaton of 'Genetic Multimillionaire' and notorious
'DNA Celebrity'.

I've been trying to think up some sort of turned wood form that I can
destruct to express my innermost feelings, my angst and anguish, my joys
and jubilations, my longings and laments. Something unique, never to
have been turned and injured before. Something that goes beyond mere
uselessness to serve as a voice for social change and all that. OK, an
artistic bowl.

I thought the long sought for and awaited epiphany had arrived; the
revelation that will make my life's work another small step for man, not
to mention a giant step for my wallet. You previously epiphanized
artists will understand. For the rest of you uninitiated, that's art
speak for "maybe this'll work". I sure hope so. I'm running out of ideas
(plus wood, lacquer and Lori's patience).

What is this Byzantine Abstraction that I've turned? This
Expressionistic, Cubist Modernism. This Impressionism that subtly
reveals hints of Baroque Realism and Pop Art? This Arch Nouveau, this
Romanticism, this 'Ism of 'Isms.

Enough of art speak for now, what oblate objet d' art that will be my
ticket into that august hallowed (hollowed) club did I turn?

Sorry rcw friends, Please forgive me. I'm too overcome to describe this
paragon, this icon of perfection just now. Actually I haven't made it
yet because Lori insists that I turn off rcw and take out the garbage. I
know you fellow artists will understand. For everyone else, there's
craft.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Hey Bob T. If you ever understand any of this please 'splain it to the
rest of us.

Hi Bob D. I did listen, but I think the wood lied about what it wanted
to become.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

(Arch) wrote:

Hey Bob T. If you ever understand any of this please 'splain it to
the rest of us.

Hi Bob D. I did listen, but I think the wood lied about what it
wanted to become.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings





Perhaps 'Artiste' more accurately reflects your approach? )

Though your post appears to be just a wee bit tongue firmly
in cheek, it does touch on a subject for discussion - the
fallacious art vs craft constructed wall.

Following the example set by the marketing campaign
furniture makers took - going from furniture makers
to Studio Furniture ARTISTS - and for some - very
profitably - the AAW (American Association of Wood-
turners) has trended towards ART Turnings and
Studio Turners. It's not about Art OR Craft - it's
about MONEY.

THAT brings in The Critiques - not peer turners - but
people who make a living "critiqueing" things done
by others - and probably couldn't actually do them-
selves. What those folks need is a constant supply
of New And Different and their goal is to "discover"
the Next Andy Warhol of the Turned Art World.
"Unusual", "Ground Breaking", "Seminal", "Thought
Provoking", "Disturbing", "Shocking" and "Evocative"
are the types of things they want to write about
- and make a name for themselves - the primary
goal.

So if you want to become a rich and famous
celebrity turner Artist you must put your
fate in The Critiques hands. That's the
Faustian Bargain.

But if you want to turn things that please
you and maybe some folks you know and
whose opinion you value - turn a lot and
turn all sorts of things. If you find something
that has promise - do more and keep making
each one better than the last, or at least
correcting things that bugged you on the
last piece. If you pay attention your
technique for that particular type of piece
will get progressively better and the form
will get better and better.

The alternative, if generating revenue
to support The Habit is what you're
after - turn bottle stoppers, pens, rolling
pins, nut and fruit bowls, maybe some
spoons or magic wands.

And remember, you're probably your
own worst critic - which isn't a bad
thing if it keeps you wanting to
improve your turning.

babble mode OFF

charlie b

On Feb 9, 12:45 am, charlieb wrote:
Though your post appears to be just a wee bit tongue firmly
in cheek, it does touch on a subject for discussion - the
fallacious art vs craft constructed wall.

It started out tongue in cheek, but it seems to have taken another
turn.

Following the example set by the marketing campaign
furniture makers took - going from furniture makers
to Studio Furniture ARTISTS - and for some - very
profitably - the AAW (American Association of Wood-
turners) has trended towards ART Turnings and
Studio Turners. It's not about Art OR Craft - it's
about MONEY.

I absolutely, 100%, could not agree with you more. Just about all
aspects of woodturning have turned into a marketing machine. Who in
the world would have thought people would be buying $3000 lathes so
frequently that there is a shortage of "The Mustard Monster" from time
to time? Why do some a Sorby gouges cost over $100?

Why do so many take this as a religion now? It used to be just a
bunch o guys turning wood and having fun. Now so many take themselves
SO SERIOUSLY that they start that prattle and blather about "giving
credit to the original artists" and all that other nonsense. Those
threads debating the origin of design, the proper homage being paid,
and the finer points of artistry are so self serving, so sanctimonious
it can make one sick.

Well, it does me, anyway.

Woodturners used to be an exception to the rule about snobbery within
the ranks. No longer. Some of the older fellows remain great guys.
Some of the younger ones are as full of crap as goose.

At the end of the day... look at what you have done. You have made a
round object to probably please yourself, and hopefully others as
well. That's it. No diseases cured, no great altruistic venture
launched.

The alternative, if generating revenue
to support The Habit is what you're
after - turn bottle stoppers, pens, rolling
pins, nut and fruit bowls, maybe some
spoons or magic wands.

I enjoy doing that to feed the tool monster, but it also makes some
people happy. For them, my efforts are gifts. For my family and
friends, I am glad they are happy to get my projects as gifts. For
others that purchase my little goodies, it pleases the entrepreneur in
me to sell something. Kinda of an off handed pat on the back,
especially when they come back or refer others.

I have had an opportunity to talk to a few of the nationally
recognized turners, and I have posted this before. To a person, they
all told me that they couldn't make it if they didn't teach, get a
sponsor, and do demos at clubs, and write articles. Most don't (I am
aware that some do) actually sell enough of their "art" to pay their
bills.

Personally, even with all the guests that we have had at our club and
the demos I have attended through other venues, I haven't found an
exception to the rule.

And remember, you're probably your
own worst critic - which isn't a bad
thing if it keeps you wanting to
improve your turning.

Once again, I agree. I think that most take up woodturning later in
life as a hobby, and they get discouraged because they don't turn the
finest of turnings after a lot of effort. For them it should be a
hobby if they want, not a friggin' popularity contest to see who who
is turning in the newest style proposed by the lathe and tool makers.

babble mode OFF

me too...

Robert

Hey Lobby, Even more accurately ......

Artless!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

These interesting posts remind me of the book out perhaps 20 years ago
called 'The Artist's Way' by Julia Cameron. It was about expressing
something from out of the bowels of one's mind and sometimes what came
out was art.

As I look up over this computer screen I see a work of art. It is a
birch vase with a natural edge. It is full of paper clips, roofing
nails and a safety pin. It was one of the few turned works of art
this artist has ever done and it express nothing as far as he can
tell about what was going on inside of the artists' brain at creation
time. The natural colors stained in the wood itself (not from the
grain) are interesting but have nothing to do with the artist
expressing hidden truths for humanity. Art (assuming it exists) is
in the eye of the beholder and PT Barnum may not have really said one
was born every minute but anyone who sells their works for a little
money should be thankful Barnum was right

(Arch) wrote:


Hey Lobby, Even more accurately ......

Artless!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings





Ever see "The Horse's Mouth"?

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:25:39 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

I read and hear a lot these days that the ability to produce turned wood
fine art is not an inborn talent and anyone can do it. It just takes
hard work, perseverance and self confidence.

Hmm... you're reading and listening in the wrong places again, Arch.. ;-]

Folks with good dexterity can be taught the moves, positions, etc... but not the
creative ability..
They call those folks "machinists".. they can take your turned piece and make
thousands of exact copies, IF they have the original to copy..

Some folks have the gift of song, some can draw or paint, some have an "eye" for
photography, IMHO..
You can learn to do anything better, if the talent to do it at all is there..
But the intuitive gift of "seeing" what a turned object will look like when you
put a piece of wood on the lathe, or how a scene will look after you take a
develop the picture can't be taught, IMO..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mac
I am not sure about the idea that creativity can not be learned. Some of
that, I think, belongs in the realm of similar consideration of a typical
guitar player versus a Segovia. Both could practice for hours on end and
Segovia would still outplay the other by way of talent if not genius. This
does not mean that the other was not a creative and talented player, just
that the levels are different.
Most turning is looking at the piece as it spins and picturing it rotated
90* and not moving, then considering what would happen if a little or a lot
was removed from a certain area in a certain fashion. Experience and
repetition allows a freedom in decision and hopefully a leap of insight and
intuition that results in a finer turning.
Too much of the time turners, in my opinion, look to turnings for creative
inspiration. There are a myriad of round forms out there to consider.
Pottery, ceramics, sculpture, plants, animals, seashells, and lots of other
things come to mind. Asking what makes one deer in my backyard look
different from the others may give insight into line and form that a half
dozen hollow forms just do not.
Art classes are designed to turn out competent artists, not Van Goghs,
except as a spectacular accident. However, a competent artist has learned
somewhat of creativity. Perhaps turners too can learn a bit of creativity.
Besides, if man is created in the image of God the creator, should there not
be a spark of creativity in us? Something calls wood turners to create on
the lathe.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:25:39 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

I read and hear a lot these days that the ability to produce turned wood
fine art is not an inborn talent and anyone can do it. It just takes
hard work, perseverance and self confidence.

Hmm... you're reading and listening in the wrong places again, Arch.. ;-]

Folks with good dexterity can be taught the moves, positions, etc... but
not the
creative ability..
They call those folks "machinists".. they can take your turned piece and
make
thousands of exact copies, IF they have the original to copy..

Some folks have the gift of song, some can draw or paint, some have an
"eye" for
photography, IMHO..
You can learn to do anything better, if the talent to do it at all is
there..
But the intuitive gift of "seeing" what a turned object will look like
when you
put a piece of wood on the lathe, or how a scene will look after you take
a
develop the picture can't be taught, IMO..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

wrote:

snip

I have had an opportunity to talk to a few of the nationally
recognized turners, and I have posted this before. To a person, they
all told me that they couldn't make it if they didn't teach, get a
sponsor, and do demos at clubs, and write articles. Most don't (I am
aware that some do) actually sell enough of their "art" to pay their
bills.

Personally, even with all the guests that we have had at our club and
the demos I have attended through other venues, I haven't found an
exception to the rule.

THAT is the irony of this marketing trend. While it plays up the
"art" and "artists", the folks making the money are the ones
who make and sell the lathes, chucks, turning tools and finishes
and the folks who sell "artists" works, write about them and so
on. What trickles down to the "artist" is all to often not enough
to stay alive on - without supplimenting that income with turning
demos, books, videos and - at the high end - Signature Gouges
and Signature Chisels. And it's a pity that the people who
drive this "industry" are at the bottom of this trickle down
system.

As for some of what is being called "art" - that charred chunk
of wood with the bandsaw facets and the only turning on it
being a concavity - painted red - that was on the cover of
one of the AAW quarterly magazines for example. Well if
that's an example of turning "art" - I sure don't want to head
in that direction. No fun, no challenge - I'll pass.

charlie b

Hey Brother Lobby,

Thanks for the post and reminder about Gulley. I didn't see the picture
show, but I remember reading about his railings and exploits about art.
Maybe rcw ought to nominate an annual Gulley Jimson Honoree or maybe
start up 'The GJ Society' as a special division of COC.

'The Baja Kid', The scalded EMT from frozen Mich. and that guy who
wastes his time shooting nails and cooking BBQ would be good candidates.
Certainly not tramps like you and me or that Mapson guy who brags about
there being no 'e' in whisky.

BTW, we sure enjoy your posts to rcw, keep em coming.

Fraternally, Dunny

Arch,

You've again created a post of genius. I did a quick search for a
definition of an artist and here is what I found:

# a person whose creative work shows sensitivity and imagination
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# The definition of an artist is wide-ranging and covers a broad
spectrum of activities to do with creating art, practising the arts
and/or demonstrating an art. Debate, both historical and present day,
suggests that defining the concept of an artist will continue to be
difficult.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist

# The performer or performing group on a recording.
www.ncb.dk/english/05/faqordliste.html

# "Artist" means a practitioner in the arts, generally recognized as a
professional by critics and peers, who produces works of art and who
is not the architect or an employee of the architectural firm retained
by the contracting agency.[1989, c. 912, §2 (amd).]
janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/27/title27sec452.html

# A practicing fine artist who is not necessarily a resident of the
Kansas City metro area. Generally recognized by critics and peers as a
professional of serious intent and ability .The artist may not be a
member of the project architectural firm.
http://www.bluespringsgov.com/Defaul...efinitions.htm

# Person who creates an aesthetic work or works in a performing art.
http://www.african-american-art-hist.../glossary.html

Most of these definition point to the aesthetic appeal of an object
someone has created and the perceptions others have about that object.
I'll interject a bit of religion here (for those of us who believe in
God), isn't the truly beautiful pieces we "create" only beautiful
because of what the wood itself looks like? Can the so called "artist"
take credit for the colors, grain, or any other natural aspect of the
wood that we use as a medium to create the objects we turn? Many of
the pieces I've seen that are so beautiful only showed me what was
hidden inside the bark. They exposed the patterns that God placed
inside the tree, the burl that was fully of beautiful voids and
character, the pinks, reds, and purples of the plum tree that didn't
come from the fruit itself, the spalted lines in the maple that appear
to have been intriguingly drawn into the object.

So I ask, who can take credit for this beauty? The "artist"? I think
not.

I enjoy selling my pieces, but most of all I enjoy seeing what beauty
nature (God) has created inside that block of firewood. I turn as a
means of relaxing and removing myself from the stress of the world.
Others may have called my work "art", but I choose not to.

That is just my perception and take on the topic. You can agree or
disagree, that is your God given right, and I respect you for it.

I'd make the statement that Arch has the ability of a word artist in
his ability to post such intriguing and thought provoking thoughts to
rcw.

JD

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
Folks with good dexterity can be taught the moves, positions, etc... but
not the
creative ability..
They call those folks "machinists".. they can take your turned piece and
make
thousands of exact copies, IF they have the original to copy..

Don't know much about machine work, do you?

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 01:40:36 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Mac
I am not sure about the idea that creativity can not be learned. Some of
that, I think, belongs in the realm of similar consideration of a typical
guitar player versus a Segovia. Both could practice for hours on end and
Segovia would still outplay the other by way of talent if not genius. This
does not mean that the other was not a creative and talented player, just
that the levels are different.
Most turning is looking at the piece as it spins and picturing it rotated
90* and not moving, then considering what would happen if a little or a lot
was removed from a certain area in a certain fashion. Experience and
repetition allows a freedom in decision and hopefully a leap of insight and
intuition that results in a finer turning.
Too much of the time turners, in my opinion, look to turnings for creative
inspiration. There are a myriad of round forms out there to consider.
Pottery, ceramics, sculpture, plants, animals, seashells, and lots of other
things come to mind. Asking what makes one deer in my backyard look
different from the others may give insight into line and form that a half
dozen hollow forms just do not.
Art classes are designed to turn out competent artists, not Van Goghs,
except as a spectacular accident. However, a competent artist has learned
somewhat of creativity. Perhaps turners too can learn a bit of creativity.
Besides, if man is created in the image of God the creator, should there not
be a spark of creativity in us? Something calls wood turners to create on
the lathe.

I must be the exception to the rule, Darrell.. After a semester of art school,
it was suggested that I was wasting my time..
I can't draw at all and mixing colors eluded me..

Those with "normal" or above drawing skills did fine..


And yes, experience and repetition make you better at refining the form, but not
at visualizing the concept.. I truly think that you're born with that, or you're
not..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:41:37 -0500, (Arch) wrote:


Hey Brother Lobby,

Thanks for the post and reminder about Gulley. I didn't see the picture
show, but I remember reading about his railings and exploits about art.
Maybe rcw ought to nominate an annual Gulley Jimson Honoree or maybe
start up 'The GJ Society' as a special division of COC.

'The Baja Kid', The scalded EMT from frozen Mich. and that guy who
wastes his time shooting nails and cooking BBQ would be good candidates.
Certainly not tramps like you and me or that Mapson guy who brags about
there being no 'e' in whisky.

BTW, we sure enjoy your posts to rcw, keep em coming.

Fraternally, Dunny

Thanks, Arch.. It's been a LOT of years since anyone called me a kid..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

(Arch) wrote:


Hey Brother Lobby,

Thanks for the post and reminder about Gulley. I didn't see the
picture show, but I remember reading about his railings and exploits
about art. Maybe rcw ought to nominate an annual Gulley Jimson Honoree
or maybe start up 'The GJ Society' as a special division of COC.

'The Baja Kid', The scalded EMT from frozen Mich. and that guy who
wastes his time shooting nails and cooking BBQ would be good
candidates. Certainly not tramps like you and me or that Mapson guy
who brags about there being no 'e' in whisky.

BTW, we sure enjoy your posts to rcw, keep em coming.

Fraternally, Dunny


Now there's an Artist: Alec Guiness. Colenel Bogey to Gully Jimson to Obi
Wan Kanobe and everything in between!