Among woodturners these days there's a lot of wringing of hands and
gnashing of teeth about stealing ideas from mother nature, antiquity and
each other. We on rcw have remained relatively quiet, but
we have issues too. Don't we have the same right to weep, wail, agonize
and deplore these awful crimes?

I think so and I'm gonna exercise my right.


Established turners have their protective cliques to provide security.
Turners just coming into their own have their protective claques to
provide mutual praise and thanksgiving. Beginners who pose no threat and
have naught to protect are welcomed and urged to turn onward and upward.


Just you remember Mr Beginner, not to sell anything that resembles a
turning that somebody posted on a net forum or published and republished
ad nauseum in magazines or DVDs, even if it was once openly and proudly
displayed in some club's instant gallery. Certainly you better remember
not to sell something that you paid someone to teach you how to turn.


What about my group? Those of us whose innovative minds and creative
artistry originated the tacky bowl and ugly candle stick. We are sick &
tired of being copied just because the public bought and used our
miserable originals in happy ignorance for years. Our awful work has
been copied and plagiarized all too often and it hurts. You people who
copy our bad work and make even worse derivitives know who you are and
you ought to be ashamed.


I forgot to copyright my original ugly bowl and awful candle stick and
even though they were my originals, now hundreds of turners are turning
ugly and awful work every day. Some are even uglier and sell better than
mine, but tacky, ugly and awful is easily recognized as a copy of an
original 'Arch'. Even if my work was the first to be awful, the plagiary
is clearly obvious and it's just not fair.


I, along with my fellow wallowers in unceasing plagiary postings echo
the words of the old song, "There, I've said it again" .....and I
suspect that we'll say it again and again and ....and again!


As usual, I am mistaken and my subject line is in error. I'm not
honestly and truly sick & tired of discussing plagiarism. Like a few
others I heard of, I really wanted to bring it up and moan about it one
more time. Next week I hope to revisit "art vs craft" in some depth. I
know it's hard to wait, but please try to be patient and I'll reward you
later with a thorough and unabridged review of "freehand versus
sharpening jigs". Oh, the joys of an uncensored forum!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Oct 26, 1:22 pm, (Arch) wrote:

Among woodturners these days there's a lot of wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth about stealing ideas from mother nature, antiquity and each other.

This seems to crop up now and again, and this subject has been burning
down the house over at WoodCentral. I was reading it before I came
back over here and apparently Ellis has decided to delete some of the
the threads.

As always, some are so proud of their own highly held personal
opinions they are astonished when someone challeges or disagrees. So
lots of hurt feelings, defensive postings, and ****ed off people.

Pretty benign stuff, really. I raised the idea of what it would be
like to start that thread up on an unmoderated venue (here) and see
how folks respond when they don't have to behave. No takers. We all
know how fast things get out of hand here sometimes, but those folks
like the safety of those closely moderated venues.

Lightweights! ;^)

Robert

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 26, 1:22 pm, (Arch) wrote:

Among woodturners these days there's a lot of wringing of hands and
gnashing of teeth about stealing ideas from mother nature, antiquity and
each other.


As always, some are so proud of their own highly held personal
opinions they are astonished when someone challeges or disagrees. So
lots of hurt feelings, defensive postings, and ****ed off people.

Sort of like some people being so proud of their "originality" in expression
that they think they deserve everlasting adulation.

Lots of pretty pictures of anemones out there, but when it says Vincent in
the corner, the price goes up. Sign your stuff, that's what makes it unique
and desirable - to some. Most of the stuff involved in the discussion is
uglier than it ought to be anyway.

Arch,

Great stuff! I almost pee'd my pants I was laughing so hard. Keep
stiring.

Larry

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:28:35 GMT, "George" wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 26, 1:22 pm, (Arch) wrote:

Among woodturners these days there's a lot of wringing of hands and
gnashing of teeth about stealing ideas from mother nature, antiquity and
each other.


As always, some are so proud of their own highly held personal
opinions they are astonished when someone challeges or disagrees. So
lots of hurt feelings, defensive postings, and ****ed off people.

Sort of like some people being so proud of their "originality" in expression
that they think they deserve everlasting adulation.

Lots of pretty pictures of anemones out there, but when it says Vincent in
the corner, the price goes up. Sign your stuff, that's what makes it unique
and desirable - to some. Most of the stuff involved in the discussion is
uglier than it ought to be anyway.

Sort of like Al Gore inventing the Internet?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:22:26 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

Hey Arch... It might be time for another safety warning...
Something about the danger of too much pressure of the tongue against the inner
cheek?


Among woodturners these days there's a lot of wringing of hands and
gnashing of teeth about stealing ideas from mother nature, antiquity and
each other. We on rcw have remained relatively quiet, but
we have issues too. Don't we have the same right to weep, wail, agonize
and deplore these awful crimes?

I think so and I'm gonna exercise my right.


Established turners have their protective cliques to provide security.
Turners just coming into their own have their protective claques to
provide mutual praise and thanksgiving. Beginners who pose no threat and
have naught to protect are welcomed and urged to turn onward and upward.


Just you remember Mr Beginner, not to sell anything that resembles a
turning that somebody posted on a net forum or published and republished
ad nauseum in magazines or DVDs, even if it was once openly and proudly
displayed in some club's instant gallery. Certainly you better remember
not to sell something that you paid someone to teach you how to turn.


What about my group? Those of us whose innovative minds and creative
artistry originated the tacky bowl and ugly candle stick. We are sick &
tired of being copied just because the public bought and used our
miserable originals in happy ignorance for years. Our awful work has
been copied and plagiarized all too often and it hurts. You people who
copy our bad work and make even worse derivitives know who you are and
you ought to be ashamed.


I forgot to copyright my original ugly bowl and awful candle stick and
even though they were my originals, now hundreds of turners are turning
ugly and awful work every day. Some are even uglier and sell better than
mine, but tacky, ugly and awful is easily recognized as a copy of an
original 'Arch'. Even if my work was the first to be awful, the plagiary
is clearly obvious and it's just not fair.


I, along with my fellow wallowers in unceasing plagiary postings echo
the words of the old song, "There, I've said it again" .....and I
suspect that we'll say it again and again and ....and again!


As usual, I am mistaken and my subject line is in error. I'm not
honestly and truly sick & tired of discussing plagiarism. Like a few
others I heard of, I really wanted to bring it up and moan about it one
more time. Next week I hope to revisit "art vs craft" in some depth. I
know it's hard to wait, but please try to be patient and I'll reward you
later with a thorough and unabridged review of "freehand versus
sharpening jigs". Oh, the joys of an uncensored forum!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Arch:

You've honed your Don't Just Step In IT - Jump In With Both Feet skills
close to perfection. I suspect you will be hearing from Dave Barry,
and maybe even Mort Sahl (for the younger crowd - Google "Mort
Sahl") - or their lawyers - about Satire Infringement Law. A Cease
and Desist order is probably already in the mail.

With all the chatter on the subject, does anyone know of an actual
case of a turner filing a law suit to prevent another turner from
"copying" their work? I suspect the issue of copywright and patent
infringement might come up with some of the tools, chisels and
gouges - but forms and techniques?

There seems to be a simple solution to "protecting your work"
- sign AND date your pieces. A little "pyrography" set up, or
one of those vibrating engravers don't cost much and take less
than a minute to use. Then - as insurance, put a drop of 2 pound
cut shellac somewhere in an out of the way place on the piece
and, while it's tacky, press your fingerprint into it. Should it
ever be necessary to prove that you, and you alone, made or
didn't make a specific piece . . .

A "studio jeweler" named Bob Wintson did "limited editions" of
his unique style jewelry and sold them by placing ads in Arizona
Highways. He was making good money this way - in addition to
giving group and private lessons and showing his work in various
galleries in Arizona and New Mexico.

After a while a friend showed him an ad in another art magazine
selling pieces that looked very much like Bob's work - at 1/10th
the price. Bob sent in his order - and check - for one of those
pieces and quickly verified that someone who'd bought the
"original" (actually a copy of the original but called one of a
"limited edition") had made a rubber mold of it and was selling
knock offs - and not good knock offs at that.

So he filed a law suit against the knock off "artist".

In court, said "artist" claimed that he had similar training
lived in a similar environment and therefore had similar
inspiration for his "limited edition" pieces. He claimed that
it should not be surprising that he could create pieces
very similar to Mr. Winston's pieces.

Lacking irrefutable proof that the designs were exclusively
his, the judge ruled against Mr. Wintson.

In his next series of limited edition jewelry, Bob added a
little soft wax to a spot on each piece and impressed
his fingerprint into it. With lost wax casting EVERYTHING
in the wax comes out in the cast metal piece. And if
you make a rubber mold of the original (the easiest way
to make multiples for a "limited edition") every detail,
including the fingerprint, is in the cast metal copies.

Mr. Winston then placed his usual add in Arizona Highways
and waited for orders. He kept track of the names,
addresses, etc., of every purchaser of that series,
looking specifically for orders from the area of the
"supsected" knock off artist. Then he looked for The
Ad. When he found it he ordered a "limited edition"
piece from "artist".

Sure enough, the piece he received had his fingerprint
right where he knew it to be.

This time, when the knock off artist began his "similar
training, similar environment - therefore similar designs"
routine, Mr. Winston asked how the knock off artist
was able to have a fingerprint identical to Mr. Winston's
AND to place it in exactly the same location as Mr.
Winston's originals

The knock off artist found another line of work.

So - if you're concerned about someone selling a
knock off as one of your original pieces - which is
a valid issue - sign and date your work. If you want
a little insurance - ue the shellac/fingerprint trick.

And Arch - thanks for the chuckle.

charlie b