I've been playing with different ways to make a static
turning actually have some movement - Super Egg
shape, ball and socket swiveled finials and other
ball and socket swivel joint applications. Stumbled
on another possibility. I needed a small diameter,
inconspicous way to connect a counter weight to
a ball and socket swivel finial. Hit a nearby hobby
shop - mainly RC cars and planes, looking for some
1/16th inch steel rod. Found springy "rods" down
to 0.015". Got some 0.020 and 0.025" 3 foot lengths
(60-70 cents each) but didn't have any twist drills
that small. for another $13.95 I got a set of 10 that
go down to the 0.020" size. Was amazed to find
that my tail stock jacobs chuck actually closes down
that fine. Made some "tear drop" shapes maybe 3/8"
diameter at their fattest and drilled into both the
rounded end and the pointy end, inserted the "rod" and
watched them bounce.

So now I'm working on clusters of tear drops on
springy "rods" as dynamic "finials" for a lidded box.
Also want to try using them horizontally around
the sides of a bowl. With some delicate balance
adjustments may be able to mount them on an
upside down "socket" and balance it on the end
of a small ball topped finial. This springy thing
has possibilities.

Any ideas?

charlie b

charlieb wrote:

So now I'm working on clusters of tear drops on
springy "rods" as dynamic "finials" for a lidded box.
Also want to try using them horizontally around
the sides of a bowl. With some delicate balance
adjustments may be able to mount them on an
upside down "socket" and balance it on the end
of a small ball topped finial. This springy thing
has possibilities.

Any ideas?

charlie b

What's one good idea worth to ya, Charlie? How about six?

;-)

Make a loose ball & socket. Give the matching faces of the ball & socket
a hard finish of some sort (or make them from a very hard wood) so as to
minimize friction. Attach several of these sproingy things to the finial
upright resting in the socket. Make the weight of the sproingy be
beneath the center of gravity for the ball so that it is self-righting.
Total mass of the sproingy things must exceed total mass of the ball +
finial upright. Should end up with the thin finial pointer dancing
around, pointing skyward.

Bonus idea 1:
Mount the sproingy things so that they hit a drum head or xylophone when
jostled. Make the wire part long enough to allow the hammer head to hit
any of several notes. More complicated. But also more noticeable.

Bonus idea 2:
Mount the weights at a mid point of an arc of spring wire (metal guitar
string?)resting just above the top of a hollow form. Use two or more
arcs. Cross them through each other.

Bonus idea 3:
Same as #2 except the arcs reach from anchor points at the bottom & top
so that the weight only reacts to lateral movement sufficiently to
strike the sides.

Bonus idea 4:
Mount the sproingy things on the inside of a hollow form in a hidden
location so that it tattles when it is moved. Hide the mounting holes
with Inlace.
____________________
---/----------------
/ /
/ /
/ |
/ |
/ / \
/ \-/
/
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
\
_______________________________________________

Oh .. one more only slightly related to your original 'sproingy'
premise: Turn a hollow form. Cut away 1/2-3/4 of the wood (use your
imagination for the pattern). Insert radiometer or suspend sheets of
gold leaf. Add lid with static finial. The radiometer will respond to
light striking it; the gold leaf will respond to both VERY tiny wind
currents and changing electrical charges. A speaker coil without a cone
placed nearby might be enough to stir stuff up ... might not. Try the
ionizer off one of those cheapy 'air purifiers'. Add an interior light
so the show continues after dark.

No charge ... but I reserve the right to exercise these ideas, too.

Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000730-4, 04/05/2007
Tested on: 4/6/2007 3:22:18 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Charlie, My daughter once sent me some turned bottle stoppers from
Italy. They had a floppy spring ~ 1-1/2 in. long X ~1/16 dia. glued in
the top with a brightly colored wood ball on the end. Some were like
grapes, some cherries, some olives. I 'plagiarized' a few and though no
one admitted to wanting one, everyone tilted them back and forth to
watch the ball bounce.

I also made a few 'Humpty Dumpty's with weighted round bottoms copied
from some long forgotten article. Probably others here did too and will
remember. ?

I tried suspending marbles and shiny ball bearings, even small sleigh
bells in inside-out turnings. Sadly, they were 'involuntary one-offs'
never to be repeated.

There used to be a well known restaurant in Chicago whose signature was
building and dressing caesar salads in a large spinning wooden salad
bowl at your table. I often thought of turning a large salad bowl with
some sort of integral weighted lazy susan to keep it spinning. I never
did, but if I had I'd have called it the "round-tuit bowl" and maybe
made my fortune. Arragh! Probably not!

Thanks for challenging us with fresh ideas.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:53:40 -0700, charlieb
wrote:

I've been playing with different ways to make a static
turning actually have some movement - Super Egg
shape, ball and socket swiveled finials and other
ball and socket swivel joint applications. Stumbled
on another possibility. I needed a small diameter,
inconspicous way to connect a counter weight to
a ball and socket swivel finial. Hit a nearby hobby
shop - mainly RC cars and planes, looking for some
1/16th inch steel rod. Found springy "rods" down
to 0.015". Got some 0.020 and 0.025" 3 foot lengths
(60-70 cents each) but didn't have any twist drills
that small. for another $13.95 I got a set of 10 that
go down to the 0.020" size. Was amazed to find
that my tail stock jacobs chuck actually closes down
that fine. Made some "tear drop" shapes maybe 3/8"
diameter at their fattest and drilled into both the
rounded end and the pointy end, inserted the "rod" and
watched them bounce.

So now I'm working on clusters of tear drops on
springy "rods" as dynamic "finials" for a lidded box.
Also want to try using them horizontally around
the sides of a bowl. With some delicate balance
adjustments may be able to mount them on an
upside down "socket" and balance it on the end
of a small ball topped finial. This springy thing
has possibilities.

Any ideas?

If it's movement you're after, have you considered taking some of the
elements from your chain design and modifying them to allow a ball
bearing (or several) to roll along a channel where the joints in the
two halves of your cups come together?

While that might not be such a useful thing on an articulated chain,
it might make for a neat child's toy, such as a rattle or ball- or
even just something to sit on a desk to be played with every so often.

If you were, for instance, to make two smallish bowls that had mating
lips that would allow you to glue them together (just like the chain
parts), you could turn that channel on the outside of those mating
parts so that it made a taurus with a slot on the outside edge of the
ring when the two parts were glued together. That slot would allow
you to see the ball or balls inside, and they could roll freely inside
the edge.

Add a little rice or something to the center before gluing, and you'd
have sound as well. As a ball, and not a rattle, it might make for
some interesting wobbly rolling, though I have not tried it out. It
just seemed like something that might be up your alley in your quest
for movement!

Prometheus wrote:

If it's movement you're after, have you considered taking some of the
elements from your chain design and modifying them to allow a ball
bearing (or several) to roll along a channel where the joints in the
two halves of your cups come together?


| | LID
| +---------+
| |
+--+
+-+ +-+
| | ( ) | | BALL BEARING(S) IN GROOVE
+---+ +----+ |
| | BOX

While that might not be such a useful thing on an articulated chain,
it might make for a neat child's toy, such as a rattle or ball- or
even just something to sit on a desk to be played with every so often.

If you were, for instance, to make two smallish bowls that had mating
lips that would allow you to glue them together (just like the chain
parts), you could turn that channel on the outside of those mating
parts so that it made a taurus with a slot on the outside edge of the
ring when the two parts were glued together. That slot would allow
you to see the ball or balls inside, and they could roll freely inside
the edge.

| |
| ___ | LID
/ / \ |
+--+ +--+ Inside of Piece
Ball +---+
+--+( ) | |
\ \___/ | BOX
| |

Add a little rice or something to the center before gluing, and you'd
have sound as well. As a ball, and not a rattle, it might make for
some interesting wobbly rolling, though I have not tried it out. It
just seemed like something that might be up your alley in your quest
for movement!

Now you've got me thinking about bearings. You can get "guide
bearings" for router bits, Why not make a piece with spinning
disks between the Top and the Bottom . Center shaft on dowel
attached to the Lid, disks pressed onto the outside of the bearing.
The owner could rearrange the disks to form different patterns.
Add "springy" mounted "vanes" to catch the wind and have them
spin horizontaly. Depending on how the vanes were orientated
on each disk you cuold get a turbine effect - air flow from one
blowing down onto the next.

OR - use them like a safe's tumblers for some kind of puzzle box
locking mechanism.

MAGNETS! You can buy rare earth disk magnets. Mount opposite
polarities - one in the bottom of the foot of a piece, the other
in a hole in the base under the piece with some sort of lip to
contain horizontal movement while allowing rotation and some
tipping / rocking. No friction so nothing to slow down rotation.

So many possible ways to get actual movement and yet most
turnings are STATIC. Why?

More ideas for ways to add actual movement to a piece?

charlie b

charlieb wrote:

So many possible ways to get actual movement and yet most
turnings are STATIC. Why?

More ideas for ways to add actual movement to a piece?

charlie b

Because a salad that's moving is not a good sign?

Bill


--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000731-0, 04/06/2007
Tested on: 4/7/2007 5:34:16 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 10:29:48 -0700, charlieb
wrote:

| |
| ___ | LID
/ / \ |
+--+ +--+ Inside of Piece
Ball +---+
+--+( ) | |
\ \___/ | BOX
| |


That's the one I was describing.

Now you've got me thinking about bearings. You can get "guide
bearings" for router bits, Why not make a piece with spinning
disks between the Top and the Bottom . Center shaft on dowel
attached to the Lid, disks pressed onto the outside of the bearing.
The owner could rearrange the disks to form different patterns.
Add "springy" mounted "vanes" to catch the wind and have them
spin horizontaly. Depending on how the vanes were orientated
on each disk you cuold get a turbine effect - air flow from one
blowing down onto the next.

Why not? Well, because that's an awfully expensive way to do that!


I would think that nylon washers from any given hardware store would
be plenty, and allow you to have a little more control over the size
of the dowel you were using.

OR - use them like a safe's tumblers for some kind of puzzle box
locking mechanism.

Take a look at this, if you're interested in that-

http://home.howstuffworks.com/inside-lock.htm

It should give you some good ideas. (That's an awfully neat site
overall, really- a little light on details, but excellent for getting
the gears turning.)

MAGNETS! You can buy rare earth disk magnets. Mount opposite
polarities - one in the bottom of the foot of a piece, the other
in a hole in the base under the piece with some sort of lip to
contain horizontal movement while allowing rotation and some
tipping / rocking. No friction so nothing to slow down rotation.

So many possible ways to get actual movement and yet most
turnings are STATIC. Why?

That's an easy one- lack of need, motivation, or imagination. Since
most guys who engage in a hobby like this are rarely guilty of the
second two, I'd guess most just aren't that concerned about adding
movement to the pieces. Ocassionaly, there's a little bit of elitist
behavior in craft and trade work as well, as you've no doubt noticed.
If it doesn't fit the general scheme what they've seen in a museum or
gallery, some guys won't bother with it. (Though that does not seem to
ring very true for most of the regular posters on this particular
group.)

There is also a big mental "gap" (for lack of a better term) between
thinking about making an object that is stationary and one that has
moving parts. I found that one out firsthand as I have been building
my metal lathe- while the individual parts are all relatively simple
(The most complex machining op I've had to do is mill two slots for
feed screws,) the guys I work with seem to think the project is
something so difficult that no one should even consider attempting it.

Kind of funny when you think about it, considering we make parts that
will be moving when they're installed by the customer all day long-
they're just not accustomed to assembling things, I guess.

More ideas for ways to add actual movement to a piece?

If you're looking to add a little flatwork as well, the addition of
cams can make some amazing little toys. I know you've seen the
wind-powered lawn decorations that feature a wooden puppet sawing a
log at least once (Or at least, I hope you have- they used to be all
over the place, but I haven't seen one in a while.)

There are also plans availible for crafting wooden clocks. While I
believe those are intended for scroll sawyers, a guy with a lathe
could turn the gear blanks and then hob wooden gears with a cutter
mounted in a drill chuck in the spindle and a shop-made dividing head-
it's not as hard as it may sound, if you've got a protractor and a
drill press. (One day I'm going to take some time out from everything
else and make myself one of those clocks- they're awfully neat.
Especially if you made each gear from a different piece of exotic
scrap and left them exposed!)

With a little planning, a guy could also make a coin-sorter on a wood
lathe without too much trouble. You know, the kind where you turn a
disc, and the change falls into tubes with the correctly sized hole.
That one comes with an extra engineering freebie- if you go to most
discount stores, they sell those made out of clear lexan so that you
can see the thing working. Easy enough to copy, if a guy were so
inclined.

On the topic of coins, a guy could also make a bank similar (though
smaller in scale) to those charity collection baskets that are a big
plasic cone that allows you to roll a coin on edge down a channel on
the rim so you can watch it roll in a spiral down to the hole for the
box. With a few nicely turned spindles to support the rim, that could
be a pretty classy change dish for a desk.

Hardwood dowels and drilled holes are your friends, too- a lot of
things can be made with a comination of levers and pivot points.

I guess the point is that there are all sorts of things a guy can make
that move- as always, necessity ends up dictating what a person is
likely to do. A lot of things that are made of metal can be
replicated in wood, but it usually requires a good deal of scaling up
to account for the differences in material strength- and that includes
machinery (I've got a homemade flex-arm in my shop made of hard maple
for drilling plumb holes with my hand drill when things won't fit
under the drill press, and it works great.) Some random web searches
are bound to come up with any number of websites made by people who
have done just about anything you could imagine- ranging from the
sublime to the absurd. It's amazing what a determined person can
accomplish!

Keep it up, and have fun!

Hi Prometheus

As they say, nothing new in this world, it's all been done before.

Couple links here for some' "movement" and for inspiration, if anyone
does run out of it. ;-)))

http://delmano.com/exhibitions/2007/...sSchreiber.htm

http://www.siegfriedschreiber.de/en/...s/mowento.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

On Apr 6, 9:46 pm, Prometheus wrote:
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:53:40 -0700, charlieb
wrote:



I've been playing with different ways to make a static
turning actually have some movement - Super Egg
shape, ball and socket swiveled finials and other
ball and socket swivel joint applications. Stumbled
on another possibility. I needed a small diameter,
inconspicous way to connect a counter weight to
a ball and socket swivel finial. Hit a nearby hobby
shop - mainly RC cars and planes, looking for some
1/16th inch steel rod. Found springy "rods" down
to 0.015". Got some 0.020 and 0.025" 3 foot lengths
(60-70 cents each) but didn't have any twist drills
that small. for another $13.95 I got a set of 10 that
go down to the 0.020" size. Was amazed to find
that my tail stock jacobs chuck actually closes down
that fine. Made some "tear drop" shapes maybe 3/8"
diameter at their fattest and drilled into both the
rounded end and the pointy end, inserted the "rod" and
watched them bounce.

So now I'm working on clusters of tear drops on
springy "rods" as dynamic "finials" for a lidded box.
Also want to try using them horizontally around
the sides of a bowl. With some delicate balance
adjustments may be able to mount them on an
upside down "socket" and balance it on the end
of a small ball topped finial. This springy thing
has possibilities.

Any ideas?

If it's movement you're after, have you considered taking some of the
elements from your chain design and modifying them to allow a ball
bearing (or several) to roll along a channel where the joints in the
two halves of your cups come together?

While that might not be such a useful thing on an articulated chain,
it might make for a neat child's toy, such as a rattle or ball- or
even just something to sit on a desk to be played with every so often.

If you were, for instance, to make two smallish bowls that had mating
lips that would allow you to glue them together (just like the chain
parts), you could turn that channel on the outside of those mating
parts so that it made a taurus with a slot on the outside edge of the
ring when the two parts were glued together. That slot would allow
you to see the ball or balls inside, and they could roll freely inside
the edge.

Add a little rice or something to the center before gluing, and you'd
have sound as well. As a ball, and not a rattle, it might make for
some interesting wobbly rolling, though I have not tried it out. It
just seemed like something that might be up your alley in your quest
for movement!

On 7 Apr 2007 19:53:39 -0700, "
wrote:

Hi Prometheus

As they say, nothing new in this world, it's all been done before.

Couple links here for some' "movement" and for inspiration, if anyone
does run out of it. ;-)))

http://delmano.com/exhibitions/2007/...sSchreiber.htm

http://www.siegfriedschreiber.de/en/...s/mowento.html

Wow.

Those are some rediculously expensive bowls!

Any of you guys sell turnings at those prices, or is that just some
guy's overinflated ego? Personally, I think I'd feel sort of bad if I
charged $150 for a piece like that.

wrote:
Hi Prometheus

As they say, nothing new in this world, it's all been done before.

Couple links here for some' "movement" and for inspiration, if anyone
does run out of it. ;-)))

http://delmano.com/exhibitions/2007/...sSchreiber.htm

http://www.siegfriedschreiber.de/en/...s/mowento.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


To be entirely honest, I'm having trouble imagining this as 71"
http://www.siegfriedschreiber.de/en/..._and_yang.html

But I wish I had his photographer (or photography skills).

http://www.siegfriedschreiber.de/en/...cent_moon.html
"This semicircular vessel gradually becomes thinner towards its edges to
the point of being almost translucent."

It's a bowl, fer cryin' out loud! Look in my catalog and you'll see a
box elder pedestal bowl that isn't 'almost' translucent ... it bloody
well IS translucent.

Sheesh ... I gotta find a better photographer and jack my prices up ...
WAAAY up!

Bill

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000731-0, 04/06/2007
Tested on: 4/8/2007 3:43:56 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Prometheus wrote:

Those are some rediculously expensive bowls!

Any of you guys sell turnings at those prices, or is that just some
guy's overinflated ego? Personally, I think I'd feel sort of bad if I
charged $150 for a piece like that.


Go through the gallery ... Schrieber is the modest one. Bud Latven & Bin
Pho both burn a hole in a $20,000 bill.

Bill

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000731-0, 04/06/2007
Tested on: 4/8/2007 4:03:42 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Bill in Detroit writes:

It's a bowl, fer cryin' out loud!

That's the problem. You should be selling "Meditation Objects." :-)


--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 04:03:41 -0400, Bill in Detroit
wrote:

Prometheus wrote:

Those are some rediculously expensive bowls!

Any of you guys sell turnings at those prices, or is that just some
guy's overinflated ego? Personally, I think I'd feel sort of bad if I
charged $150 for a piece like that.


Go through the gallery ... Schrieber is the modest one. Bud Latven & Bin
Pho both burn a hole in a $20,000 bill.

So what you're saying is that instead of actually working, I should
probably just start making simple bowls out of unremarkable maple and
cashing in, eh?

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
Any of you guys sell turnings at those prices, or is that just some
guy's overinflated ego? Personally, I think I'd feel sort of bad if I
charged $150 for a piece like that.


Go through the gallery ... Schrieber is the modest one. Bud Latven & Bin
Pho both burn a hole in a $20,000 bill.

So what you're saying is that instead of actually working, I should
probably just start making simple bowls out of unremarkable maple and
cashing in, eh?

Or learn how to forge. Lots of people can make a picture look like Starry
Night, but it's that "Vincent" in the corner that costs.

Bruce Barnett wrote:

That's the problem. You should be selling "Meditation Objects." :-)



If I bought one of those things I would sure have a lot to meditate about.

Prometheus wrote:

Go through the gallery ... Schrieber is the modest one. Bud Latven & Bin
Pho both burn a hole in a $20,000 bill.

So what you're saying is that instead of actually working, I should
probably just start making simple bowls out of unremarkable maple and
cashing in, eh?


Yeah, at those prices I think I could squeak by on a couple sales a
month until I could build the business a little. ;-)

Oh, and holly, too. You have to be able to work in a wide variety of
unremakarble woods.

(Although I can finally see what all the hullabaloo about lignum vitae
is about ... I'd never seen the grain in that big of a piece before. So
maybe you could make a couple candle stick kits or something from it, eh?)


Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000731-1, 04/08/2007
Tested on: 4/9/2007 2:02:42 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Bruce Barnett wrote:
Bill in Detroit writes:

It's a bowl, fer cryin' out loud!

That's the problem. You should be selling "Meditation Objects." :-)



I'm going to call mine a "Universal Entropy Collector" or a "Micro
Syncretion Disk" (if it warps, change the name to "Syncretion Ovoid with
Tears" and put a couple of those black rocks called "Apache Tears" in
it, and sell it to the gubmint.;-)

It's all in the name ... I think I'm all done selling bowls for a
living. ;-)

Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000731-1, 04/08/2007
Tested on: 4/9/2007 2:06:47 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/T...culation7.html