Different turners will use different ways to decide what they want a
turning to be, but I think it would be interesting to see how rcw's
turners approach designing a turning. I wonder if the way you plan and
design a form correlates with your background? I mean whether you are
an architect, engineer, machinist, farmer, artist. poet or what. I hope
you will vote
and discuss your reasons, whether or not you know what they are or why.


Do you plan and make exact drawings with measurements of the piece you
plan to turn or do you make rough sketches of the piece you expect to
turn? Maybe you do as I usually do, 'draw and sketch' on the spinning
wood with gouge, skew and scraper unsure of what it will turn out to be
instead of putting pen, rule and protractor to paper before hand.

I realize that the size of a blank generally determines whether the
turning will be a miniature or a bottle stopper or a salad bowl or a
baseball bat, but within these general constraints, how many of you let
a blank's size and cost control your design parameters whether on paper,
in your head or 'sketching' with your gouge?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch wrote:
Different turners will use different ways to decide what they want a
turning to be, but I think it would be interesting to see how rcw's
turners approach designing a turning. I wonder if the way you plan and
design a form correlates with your background? I mean whether you are
an architect, engineer, machinist, farmer, artist. poet or what. I hope
you will vote
and discuss your reasons, whether or not you know what they are or why.


Do you plan and make exact drawings with measurements of the piece you
plan to turn or do you make rough sketches of the piece you expect to
turn? Maybe you do as I usually do, 'draw and sketch' on the spinning
wood with gouge, skew and scraper unsure of what it will turn out to be
instead of putting pen, rule and protractor to paper before hand.

I realize that the size of a blank generally determines whether the
turning will be a miniature or a bottle stopper or a salad bowl or a
baseball bat, but within these general constraints, how many of you let
a blank's size and cost control your design parameters whether on paper,
in your head or 'sketching' with your gouge?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I seldom plan ahead. sometimes a bad area requires more to
be turned off and then I have to think what I can do with
what's left.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Any wire cut to length will be too short.

"Arch" wrote: (clip)discuss your reasons, whether or not you know (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Arch, see what quoting out of context can do?

I have known some very good turners who insist that a dimensioned scale
drawing is a necessary first step for every turning. I just let the wood
talk to me as I am cutting. I also do wrought iron work, and it is amazing
how many times a partially finished item starts looking better than the
design I had in mind when I started. Besides, I do this stuff for
relaxation, and detailed planning doesn't relax me.

Arch wrote:
Different turners will use different ways to decide what they want a
turning to be,
Arch ... there AIN'T no one like you! (LOL!)

I'll start with a rough mental picture. Sometimes it gets edited by a
run of beautiful grain, a void or an embedded piece of metal. Sometimes
an unseen crack turns a nice-sized bowl blank into a dozen pen blanks,
of which two or three have enough grain to mess with. Sometimes an
over-zealous turner makes a platter from a completed bowl. (Two minutes
ago it had already reached its minimum thickness. ;-)

No drawings. Certainly nothing more detailed than a paper napkin sketch
unless I am looking to duplicate (nearly) something that wants to be a
"set" ... such as single candlestick that turned out nice will usually
challenge me to make another.

Sometimes I will start out with a photo of someone else's work ... but
that is mostly done as a training exercise. At one time or another, I've
probably been 'inspired' by about 1/2 the galleries posted in signature
lines to try to make something 'like' a piece in a photo.

I don't do dimensional take offs. I seldom have the sort of wood
available that was originally used. I just look at a photo for a sense
of proportions or a technical challenge (2 or 3+ piece hollow forms, for
example.)

The one 2 piece hollow form I made launched during buffing. So I can't
show you. But it WAS really nice ... the flagship of my work so far.

Bill
--
Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one
rascal less in the world.
Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)
http://nmwoodworks.com

I attempt to use all the wood available when turning a bowl,and I don't know
for sure when I start to turn how much that's going to be. Once I think I
have everything available, I attempt to, slightly, adjust the dimensions to
fashion a pleasing form. Some forms are more 'pleasing' than others.


"Arch" wrote in message
...
Different turners will use different ways to decide what they want a
turning to be, but I think it would be interesting to see how rcw's
turners approach designing a turning. I wonder if the way you plan and
design a form correlates with your background? I mean whether you are
an architect, engineer, machinist, farmer, artist. poet or what. I hope
you will vote
and discuss your reasons, whether or not you know what they are or why.


Do you plan and make exact drawings with measurements of the piece you
plan to turn or do you make rough sketches of the piece you expect to
turn? Maybe you do as I usually do, 'draw and sketch' on the spinning
wood with gouge, skew and scraper unsure of what it will turn out to be
instead of putting pen, rule and protractor to paper before hand.

I realize that the size of a blank generally determines whether the
turning will be a miniature or a bottle stopper or a salad bowl or a
baseball bat, but within these general constraints, how many of you let
a blank's size and cost control your design parameters whether on paper,
in your head or 'sketching' with your gouge?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Do you plan and make exact drawings with measurements of the piece you
plan to turn

Definitely, but only when I'm doing my segmented pieces. I start with
an exact idea of what I want the piece to look like. I draw the cross
section to exact scale and shade it in. If it still looks good I'll
make one or more "prototypes" out of scraps to make sure it's what I
want and often to try subtle variations in shape. Sometimes working
on the "prototypes" helps in defining problems in the construction
process that need to be addressd. I use wood ranging in price from
expensive to grossly exorbitant for these pieces and I can't afford to
waste even a small amount. I also feel I owe it to the tree to take
some care.

or do you make rough sketches of the piece you expect to
turn?

Yes, as a first step on a new idea.

Maybe you do as I usually do, 'draw and sketch' on the spinning
wood

Yes, when I'm working on roughing out blocks that came straight from a
tree. I cut the log up to get the best grain rather than the most
blanks. I will look at each blank and try to envision all the
options, at least the ones that my limited imagination can see. Then
I'll pick the one that I think best shows the grain and that appeals
to me. I also consider if I have a reasonable chance of turning that
shape to completion. If there is nothing special about the grain I
might try something that I have a fair chance of failing at just for
the practice.

For me, there are 3 basic ways, in increasing difficulty:
1. I make a lot of bowls with the same basic form and allow a certain
influence by the wood itself.
2. I make sketches with idea or concept as a starting point, search
for the best fitting wood and if its a "dry wood" project, I make an
exact drawing, often using just plain maple. With wet woods, there is
no use in exact drawings, because because it will chance its shape,
such as holly.
3. With the wood in charge, I just follow its directions, using the
most whimsical wood I can find such as crotches and burls, which are
seldom without holes, bark inclusions, nails, stones or rotten spots.
As always, don't mind my english.

Dutchturner Chris

It depends entirely on what I'm making.

If I'm making a large bowl from a crotch of a tree, I rarely draw
anything (except some circles with compasses to find the right center)
until I've turned it round, remove chain saw marks and have a look at
the grain and the general shape of what's left, then I take it off,
set it down on a table and try to make an accurate sketch and decide
what curvature and foot will look best. Afternoon light and a beer
help a lot at this point. I find this sketching process to be the
crucial difference between a truly elegant and beautiful piece and a
somewhat klunky looking present for someone that will appreciate it.

If it has some great surface features I want to include in a natural
edge, I will often spend a lot of time working out where the center
and bottom plane should be, and after doing a bunch of geometric
constructions directly on the log, I'll mount it at what I think is
the correct center with a few screws, then turning it by hand, see if
the features on the natural edg lie where I want. if not, I make
careful measurements and re-set the face plate, sometimes with wedges
if the angle of the base plane is off. This can go on a couple times
if it's really hard.

For example this one:
http://treecycler.org/gallery/main.p...&g2_itemId=157
was a monster piece of olive that has a completely continuous natural
edge, even continuous with the hole in the surface, and that took a
couple mountings to get it right (I first glued a large flat piece of
ash onto the bottom so I could turn the off center bowls inside). It
was hard because of the irregular shape and you can see where there
was an unavoidable chain saw cut which I planed flat (luckily the
natural edge was still continuous around the outside, though it
narrows down to about 1/16" wide at the lower right edge).

Some others, such as these Frankenstein bowls
http://treecycler.org/gallery/main.p...74&g2_pa ge=1
I will first choose the center for a natural edge, turn it round, then
spend a lot of time sketching before I add pieces of wood to span
gaps. Adding the dovetail joints, I don't usually draw, it's more of a
process of examining the grain and seeing what will be sound enough to
take the dovetail and just will give a pleasing look. These are not
drawn quite as much when I add the extra wood when I join two burls
together. Instead I just use my hands to feel in empty space where the
already turned surface will be in the pieces of wood will end up,
holding them together by hand and turning the lathe by hand to see
where the second burl will get cut.

The multi axis bowls and vases I will draw in much greater detail
before I turn, even down to which centers will be turned in what order
and which cuts will be done now or later, after mounting on other
centers and then coming back again to the original center. There is
sometimes a lot of jig building that goes on for them and wedges and
more geometric constructions in 3D with the wood propped up on the
bench, using a large square (or two) to mark where different centers
ought to be to get the features I want.

If it's a matched set of things, I have a detailed drawing with some
specific dimensions that have to match.

I laughed when I read this one, Arch. Being a tad on the squeaky
side, I usually try to conserve all the wood on the piece that I can.
If it is big enough to be a plate, then you better believe it's gonna
be a plate, not a saucer.

I do make different things that require that I plan what I am doing.
For those things I look for specific pieces of wood, or for the pieces
of wood I have set back with those projects in mind.

I don't always have much time to turn, so when I do it can be a while
between sessions. So if I find I am having problems with a certain
tool (say the bowl gouge) in normal use, or maybe it just isn't as
comfortable as it should be, I will turn as many small bowls as it
takes to get my hand back.

Otherwise when I am turning just for the fun of turning, I decide on
the fly what I would like to do. It gives me a chance to work with
different tools, and to explore different techniques, not to mention
shapes and designs. Some of those pieces aren't even finished. They
hold "stuff" in the shop like my glues and finishes. Some meet an
untimely end in the pit if I don't like them at all.

I am thinking of turning an art deco piece that would require some
inside out turning, and that one I will have to plan for. But for the
small bowl and the 10" vase I made this weekend, they just kinda came
out of the log on their own.

Robert

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:20:45 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

Different turners will use different ways to decide what they want a
turning to be, but I think it would be interesting to see how rcw's
turners approach designing a turning. I wonder if the way you plan and
design a form correlates with your background? I mean whether you are
an architect, engineer, machinist, farmer, artist. poet or what. I hope
you will vote
and discuss your reasons, whether or not you know what they are or why.


Do you plan and make exact drawings with measurements of the piece you
plan to turn or do you make rough sketches of the piece you expect to
turn? Maybe you do as I usually do, 'draw and sketch' on the spinning
wood with gouge, skew and scraper unsure of what it will turn out to be
instead of putting pen, rule and protractor to paper before hand.

I do both. But I only plan segemented turnings, or when I am
repairing something for someone and need to make a duplicate or an
existing part.

When it's just wood on the lathe, and I'm just doing it for fun, I
"sketch", as you so aptly put it.

My background is split about 50/50 between machinist and carpenter-
depending on which one I'm doing to pay the bills (machinist now, and
as much as I like building things, I think that's how it's going to
stay), I generally do the other in my spare time for extra money and
to make sure I don't forget everything I've worked to learn over the
years. But my apprenticeship was as a machinist (knife sharpener),
and I'm probably more inclined to view things through that lens.

I realize that the size of a blank generally determines whether the
turning will be a miniature or a bottle stopper or a salad bowl or a
baseball bat, but within these general constraints, how many of you let
a blank's size and cost control your design parameters whether on paper,
in your head or 'sketching' with your gouge?

Cost? I don't recall ever turning anything but free wood, but maybe
that's just me. As far as size goes, I usually try to get the biggest
piece I can out of the wood on the machine, but sometimes I whittle a
big hunk of wood down to almost nothing hunting after that bit of
grain that is "just right".

Late to this one.

I tend to do "series" stuff. I'll get into finials for a while and
turn a bunch. I'll run variations of one that is interesting,
often refining a combination of profiles 'til there's no change
I can come up with that will improve things. Then I started
hollowing / piercing some parts of the finials using small
dental burs.

Currently I'm into "capsule" shaped lidded boxes - with finials.
Found the proportions that looked right by the fourth or
fifth one. Then started playing with adding internal lids and
finials. When I had that down I started adding a contrasting
wood "base". Think I'll start sculpting areas next, or maybe
experiement with texturing.

Because relatively small turnings don't require much wood
and can be done quicker than bowls and larger hollow forms
I can evolve from a basic idea and in subsequent pieces, refine
it to the "n"th degree or until it gets boring.

When I've taken an idea to the point where I really like it
THEN I may do some scaled drawings to see if there are
any underlying proportions to be discovered. If there are,
I may try applying those proportions to something else.
The drawings and notes go in a design folder for future
reference / inspiration.

Keeping digital images of what I've done is handy too.
With PhotoShop I can tweek the proportions, try different
combinations of parts, change the color of the wood etc.
If I find an interesting look I'll try it in wood.

I sometimes take an image of a piece I've found and bring
it into a drawing program. One one "layer" I'll put a red
line with the slope being tall version of "the golden ratio"
and a green line with the slope being the wide version of
the golden ratio. I can then slide either line over the image
of the piece and see if the line intersects any control points
in the piece. Can do the same sort of things with lines
based on Thirds or Fifths. Searching for patterns/
proportions can be useful. In furniture, "graduated"
drawer heights can take a Ho-Hum design up a notch.

On some pieces it can be the base / foot that makes or
breaks a piece. It can be something subtle which lifts
the piece off whatever it's sitting on - just enough to
make the piece appear to float - just a little. Or it could
be a barely noticeable bead or slight upswept lip which
makes the piece more interesting but not consciously
noticable.

Ideas are everywhere. The nice thing about turning
is that you can explore many avenues and approaches
- for very little cost in time or materials.

charlie b