I am needing to purchase a new bandsaw blade. I have had good luck
with the timberwolf 3tpi x 1/2" blades but they dont seem to last very
long. I mainly use my Grizzly G1019 (w/ riser) bandsaw for cutting
blanks before mounting on my jet 1236. I do trim most of the blanks
with a chainsaw before making round on bandsaw. So there is still some
bark which is probably dulling the blade. I mainly use green wood that
is about 6" deep or less.

So what are everyone thoughts on carbide blades for rounding blanks.

Here is the one I was looking at purchasing.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H6998
At $53 if it would out last two timberwolf blades it would be more
economical.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Steve Massman

Steve
I get regular bandsaw blades from http://tufftooth.com/ and find both the
blades and the service excellent. They also have silicon steel blades
similar to the Timber Wolf and these are excellent as well. I sharpen my
blades a la Steve Russell and find that i get about three sharpenings per
blade before metal fatigue sets in on my 72" blade.
If you do go the carbide route it would be nice to know how it works out.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"massmans" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am needing to purchase a new bandsaw blade. I have had good luck
with the timberwolf 3tpi x 1/2" blades but they dont seem to last very
long. I mainly use my Grizzly G1019 (w/ riser) bandsaw for cutting
blanks before mounting on my jet 1236. I do trim most of the blanks
with a chainsaw before making round on bandsaw. So there is still some
bark which is probably dulling the blade. I mainly use green wood that
is about 6" deep or less.

So what are everyone thoughts on carbide blades for rounding blanks.

Here is the one I was looking at purchasing.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H6998
At $53 if it would out last two timberwolf blades it would be more
economical.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Steve Massman

I concur with Darrell. The problem with me is when I am not careful I break
the blade when I get around blanks.
I soon learned that (with my band saw) the base of the blank has to be
square with the blade. Otherwise the blade binds and breaks.
Replacing a broken carbide blade is more expensive than a metal one.
When selecting a carbide blade I would inquire about the teeth configuration
to cut green wood. For the average band saw a 4 skip tooth works good.
That is 4 teeth per inch with one racker. A large band saw work fine with a
3 teeth per inch with one racker.
Let us know how you make out with the carbide blade.

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:QqLrh.162771$YV4.95102@edtnps89...
Steve
I get regular bandsaw blades from http://tufftooth.com/ and find both the
blades and the service excellent. They also have silicon steel blades
similar to the Timber Wolf and these are excellent as well. I sharpen my
blades a la Steve Russell and find that i get about three sharpenings per
blade before metal fatigue sets in on my 72" blade.
If you do go the carbide route it would be nice to know how it works out.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"massmans" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am needing to purchase a new bandsaw blade. I have had good luck
with the timberwolf 3tpi x 1/2" blades but they dont seem to last very
long. I mainly use my Grizzly G1019 (w/ riser) bandsaw for cutting
blanks before mounting on my jet 1236. I do trim most of the blanks
with a chainsaw before making round on bandsaw. So there is still some
bark which is probably dulling the blade. I mainly use green wood that
is about 6" deep or less.

So what are everyone thoughts on carbide blades for rounding blanks.

Here is the one I was looking at purchasing.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H6998
At $53 if it would out last two timberwolf blades it would be more
economical.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Steve Massman

I am lucky to have a Lennox blade dealer here in town, and can get
anything that I need from him. For general bowl blank roughing a
bimetal blade works best. They last a lot longer than other blades.
While I haven't used anything else, I have several friends who have
switched to them and this is what they have told me. They are a utility
blade and good for rough work. I do have a carbide tipped blade that
costs about double what a bimetal blade does (150 inch by 1 1/4 blade
$75 to $180). I did use one for bowl blanks for a while just to see how
they did. They work fine, but don't seem to last any longer. They are
made for resawing board stock, and the dealer said that they are a must
have if you are planning to resaw your own veneers. I can get a surface
that needs almost no sanding with them, but are overkill for bowls.
robo hippy



wrote:
I concur with Darrell. The problem with me is when I am not careful I break
the blade when I get around blanks.
I soon learned that (with my band saw) the base of the blank has to be
square with the blade. Otherwise the blade binds and breaks.
Replacing a broken carbide blade is more expensive than a metal one.
When selecting a carbide blade I would inquire about the teeth configuration
to cut green wood. For the average band saw a 4 skip tooth works good.
That is 4 teeth per inch with one racker. A large band saw work fine with a
3 teeth per inch with one racker.
Let us know how you make out with the carbide blade.

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:QqLrh.162771$YV4.95102@edtnps89...
Steve
I get regular bandsaw blades from http://tufftooth.com/ and find both the
blades and the service excellent. They also have silicon steel blades
similar to the Timber Wolf and these are excellent as well. I sharpen my
blades a la Steve Russell and find that i get about three sharpenings per
blade before metal fatigue sets in on my 72" blade.
If you do go the carbide route it would be nice to know how it works out.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"massmans" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am needing to purchase a new bandsaw blade. I have had good luck
with the timberwolf 3tpi x 1/2" blades but they dont seem to last very
long. I mainly use my Grizzly G1019 (w/ riser) bandsaw for cutting
blanks before mounting on my jet 1236. I do trim most of the blanks
with a chainsaw before making round on bandsaw. So there is still some
bark which is probably dulling the blade. I mainly use green wood that
is about 6" deep or less.

So what are everyone thoughts on carbide blades for rounding blanks.

Here is the one I was looking at purchasing.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H6998
At $53 if it would out last two timberwolf blades it would be more
economical.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Steve Massman

wrote in message
news
I concur with Darrell. The problem with me is when I am not careful I
break the blade when I get around blanks.
I soon learned that (with my band saw) the base of the blank has to be
square with the blade. Otherwise the blade binds and breaks.

Note that the blade will be square with any flat base. It's tip and pinch
that get you. Suggestions for flattening if you're not the best with a
chainsaw include scrub/jack/block planes, or perhaps you might want to lay
the piece flat on its broad face on the drillpress table and make stopped,
overlapping Forstner bores for parallel, it that's what you're after.

I find a circle cutting jig to be an excellent way to do round things, as it
keeps you from the other blade-destroyer, turning the blank/blade while not
cutting. No choice but to cut with the jig.

Steve, I know you asked about carbide bandsaw blades, but for green wood
how often do you need to interpose a bandsaw between your chain saw and
a tool that's made for making wood round ...the lathe?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

While it isn't a necessity, a big bandsaw for preping blanks saves huge
amounts of time. As a production turner, I had to have one. It cuts the
log up faster, you parallel top and bottom, and a better circle. This
means that you can start turning at higher speeds, and there is less
roughing to do. It has cut my prep and turning time almost in half. The
bandsaw does a much better job than a chainsaw. You don't need carbide
blades for bowl blanks.
robo hippy
Arch wrote:
Steve, I know you asked about carbide bandsaw blades, but for green wood
how often do you need to interpose a bandsaw between your chain saw and
a tool that's made for making wood round ...the lathe?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Thanks for all the help. My main need to is to get bigger logs round
so that i can put them on my limited Jet 1236. It doesnt do well with
large octagons blanks.

I will look into resharpening and also staying with timberwolf blades.


Steve

Hi Steve

But if you want to make larger turnings, you should maybe get a larger
lathe, or saw the corners of the octagonal blanks one more time with
your chain saw while you are at it anyway, ;-)))))

But seriously, if the above isn't in the cards, ( I seldom use my band
saw for making bowl blanks, but I do sometimes), use the silicon steel
bands, that are thicker than normal .032" 4 TPI 1/2" wide, the blades
have a wider set and they are called the "turner/carver bands" by the
makers,(where I get them from) but you need wheels that are larger than
12" I think it is, I was paying something like 15 cents an inch, and
for that price it is pretty hard to do better with carbide teeth bands
IMO.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


massmans wrote:
I am needing to purchase a new bandsaw blade. I have had good luck
with the timberwolf 3tpi x 1/2" blades but they dont seem to last very
long. I mainly use my Grizzly G1019 (w/ riser) bandsaw for cutting
blanks before mounting on my jet 1236. I do trim most of the blanks
with a chainsaw before making round on bandsaw. So there is still some
bark which is probably dulling the blade. I mainly use green wood that
is about 6" deep or less.

So what are everyone thoughts on carbide blades for rounding blanks.

Here is the one I was looking at purchasing.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H6998
At $53 if it would out last two timberwolf blades it would be more
economical.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Steve Massman

I have used the carbide blades for resawing and cutting blanks. I will only
use it on something that I know for sure doesn't have rocks in it. I was
making venier from a madrona burl and had the misfortune to find a rock in
it, or rather the blade did and as it was a 3/4 it could not be resharpened.
They are costly. Stick with the bimetals.

Brian

On 18 Jan 2007 08:23:33 -0800, "robo hippy"
wrote:

I am lucky to have a Lennox blade dealer here in town, and can get
anything that I need from him. For general bowl blank roughing a
bimetal blade works best. They last a lot longer than other blades.
While I haven't used anything else, I have several friends who have
switched to them and this is what they have told me. They are a utility
blade and good for rough work. I do have a carbide tipped blade that
costs about double what a bimetal blade does (150 inch by 1 1/4 blade
$75 to $180). I did use one for bowl blanks for a while just to see how
they did. They work fine, but don't seem to last any longer. They are
made for resawing board stock, and the dealer said that they are a must
have if you are planning to resaw your own veneers. I can get a surface
that needs almost no sanding with them, but are overkill for bowls.
robo hippy

I spent a lot of time in front of industrial bandsaws over the years,
and the conclusion I came to was the same as above- the Lennox
bi-metal blades will cut almost as long and just as well as carbide
tipped, and cost less. They're just plain tough, and if they can cut
steel 24 hours a day for a week or better, I can't imagine that there
are many woods that are going to hurt them much!

Hi Prometheus

The problem with the bi-metal blades is to many TPI and not enough set
on them for sawing wet wood, they'll bind up and do just not work well
sawing wet wood I found, the once or twice I tried sawing wood on my
saw with the Bi-metal in place, also most BI-metal bands are wider than
thicker than the wood bands, they need more power and bigger wheel
sizes.
One other thing that does make a big difference is the saw speed in
metal sawing or wood sawing, where the wood sawing blades feed at
approx. 10X the speed of steel blades, as speed goes up so does the
friction and heat, but if you can find some bi-metal bands that do have
the 3 or 4 TPI with a good wide set than it might be more economical to
use one of those.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum22.html

Prometheus wrote:
On 18 Jan 2007 08:23:33 -0800, "robo hippy"
wrote:

I am lucky to have a Lennox blade dealer here in town, and can get
anything that I need from him. For general bowl blank roughing a
bimetal blade works best. They last a lot longer than other blades.
While I haven't used anything else, I have several friends who have
switched to them and this is what they have told me. They are a utility
blade and good for rough work. I do have a carbide tipped blade that
costs about double what a bimetal blade does (150 inch by 1 1/4 blade
$75 to $180). I did use one for bowl blanks for a while just to see how
they did. They work fine, but don't seem to last any longer. They are
made for resawing board stock, and the dealer said that they are a must
have if you are planning to resaw your own veneers. I can get a surface
that needs almost no sanding with them, but are overkill for bowls.
robo hippy

I spent a lot of time in front of industrial bandsaws over the years,
and the conclusion I came to was the same as above- the Lennox
bi-metal blades will cut almost as long and just as well as carbide
tipped, and cost less. They're just plain tough, and if they can cut
steel 24 hours a day for a week or better, I can't imagine that there
are many woods that are going to hurt them much!

On 19 Jan 2007 11:02:23 -0800, "
wrote:

Hi Prometheus

The problem with the bi-metal blades is to many TPI and not enough set
on them for sawing wet wood, they'll bind up and do just not work well
sawing wet wood I found, the once or twice I tried sawing wood on my
saw with the Bi-metal in place, also most BI-metal bands are wider than
thicker than the wood bands, they need more power and bigger wheel
sizes.
One other thing that does make a big difference is the saw speed in
metal sawing or wood sawing, where the wood sawing blades feed at
approx. 10X the speed of steel blades, as speed goes up so does the
friction and heat, but if you can find some bi-metal bands that do have
the 3 or 4 TPI with a good wide set than it might be more economical to
use one of those.

Speed may be a big factor, now that you mention it- but TPI doesn't
really need to be.

There were two common tooth sets that I've used in steel fabrication-
2-3 and 3-4. Each used an alternating tooth count, as I'm sure you
can guess by the designation, 2 tpi on one inch, and 3 on the next.
The 2-3s gave a fairly rough finish on metal, but would be pretty good
for wood, and IIRC, they had a fairly good set to them- I do recall
turning off the coolant and sawing large oak beams a couple of times
for things like rebuilding the loading dock after a careless truck
driver managed to rip off the bumpers, and building heavy shop stands.
It was a mess to clean the chips out of a saw with a coolant tray, but
it ripped through those massive beams like they were paper.

That being said, they *were* wide and thick- you've got a point there.
The ones I've used had a kerf of .063", and were 1.25" wide. That
1/16" kerf did not reflect the simple thickness of the blade- it was
due to the set of the teeth. The blades themselves were .032" thick,
and the rest was set. Just for comparison, the carbide toothed blades
had a kerf of over .125" Even if they were sharper, that's still
quite a lot more material to remove.

But you've got to have some pretty big wheels in the bandsaw to run
those suckers- perhaps my thinking was incorrect when I assumed that
Lennox makes smaller versions for other saws. I think, but do not
recall for certain, that they do make similar blades with a thinner
band for the smaller cut-off saws, which are not that different from a
vertical wood bandsaw. Then again, my somewhat hazy recollection (the
smaller cutoffs were secondary only) is of 3/4" wide bands with a
slightly finer tooth count- perhaps 5-6. If that's the biggest bite
they've got, they may not work for resawing- but in any case, I'd
still go for the bi-metals over carbide bandsaw blades in a heartbeat!

Thinking back on this made me recall one other thing about bandsaw
blades I never really considered in the wood shop. The Lennox
bi-metal blades were "self sharpening"- that isn't to say that they
stayed perpetually sharp, but rather that they required a much lighter
feed pressure and slower band speed when they were installed new for
the first 10 cubic inches (in steel) of the material cut. Ignoring
that break-in procedure reduced the life of the blade by almost %75.
I don't know if the same logic applies to wood bandsaws, but it may be
worth a little investigation. Hard to say how a guy might slow down
the band speed with a saw that has only one speed, but it's certainly
not difficult to reduce the feed rate for the first (100?) cubic
inches of hardwood cut, and it might help the blades last longer and
cut better.

I have used the 3-4 carbide on wood and the finish was outstanding. I did a
bunch of fine boxes that required very little sanding.

Brian

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
Thinking back on this made me recall one other thing about bandsaw
blades I never really considered in the wood shop. The Lennox
bi-metal blades were "self sharpening"- that isn't to say that they
stayed perpetually sharp, but rather that they required a much lighter
feed pressure and slower band speed when they were installed new for
the first 10 cubic inches (in steel) of the material cut. Ignoring
that break-in procedure reduced the life of the blade by almost %75.
I don't know if the same logic applies to wood bandsaws, but it may be
worth a little investigation. Hard to say how a guy might slow down
the band speed with a saw that has only one speed, but it's certainly
not difficult to reduce the feed rate for the first (100?) cubic
inches of hardwood cut, and it might help the blades last longer and
cut better.

Some even recommend such a procedure. Notably the ones I purchased from
Woodworkers' Supply when they had a deal on 'em. Never seen it elsewhere.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:17:28 GMT, "George" wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
.. .
Thinking back on this made me recall one other thing about bandsaw
blades I never really considered in the wood shop. The Lennox
bi-metal blades were "self sharpening"- that isn't to say that they
stayed perpetually sharp, but rather that they required a much lighter
feed pressure and slower band speed when they were installed new for
the first 10 cubic inches (in steel) of the material cut. Ignoring
that break-in procedure reduced the life of the blade by almost %75.
I don't know if the same logic applies to wood bandsaws, but it may be
worth a little investigation. Hard to say how a guy might slow down
the band speed with a saw that has only one speed, but it's certainly
not difficult to reduce the feed rate for the first (100?) cubic
inches of hardwood cut, and it might help the blades last longer and
cut better.

Some even recommend such a procedure. Notably the ones I purchased from
Woodworkers' Supply when they had a deal on 'em. Never seen it elsewhere.

The only place I ever even thought about it was on industrial metal
bandsaws, but I don't imagine it would hurt anything to apply the same
practice to the woodworking blades. I'll have to remember that the
next time I swap blades out myself.

A slow cut for the first while does make sense. (muse, muse, muse). When a
blade is new or newly sharpened, it cuts faster than the old, dull one.
Hense the temptation is to move the wood through quickly. However, a band
saw blade like all other saws, is designed to clear sawdust from the cut.
The gullets act as dust carriers to move the dust through the cut and then
deposit it at the other end. I presume that a fast push through with a sharp
blade would generate a lot of sawdust but not sufficient time to clear it
all. This would generate heat that would shorten the effective time of the
sharpening. I think that blades tend to have a good sharp time, a much
longer effective time (sharp enought) and a sudden "sharpen me" time or at
least a period where we sit back and say "I should do something about that
blade before it breaks."

Remember: the time to replace the blade is 15 minutes of cutting before you
did.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

This is a real head scratcher for me Leo, all I have ever used are bi
metal blades, and the only time I have any trouble with them is when
they are dull. I use 1/2 inch by 3 tpi on my small saw (PM industrial
1hp ), and a 1 1/4 inch blade with about 3/4 inch spaces between teeth.
Maybe they make bimetal wood and metal blades.
robo hippy
wrote:
Hi Prometheus

The problem with the bi-metal blades is to many TPI and not enough set
on them for sawing wet wood, they'll bind up and do just not work well
sawing wet wood I found, the once or twice I tried sawing wood on my
saw with the Bi-metal in place, also most BI-metal bands are wider than
thicker than the wood bands, they need more power and bigger wheel
sizes.
One other thing that does make a big difference is the saw speed in
metal sawing or wood sawing, where the wood sawing blades feed at
approx. 10X the speed of steel blades, as speed goes up so does the
friction and heat, but if you can find some bi-metal bands that do have
the 3 or 4 TPI with a good wide set than it might be more economical to
use one of those.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum22.html

Prometheus wrote:
On 18 Jan 2007 08:23:33 -0800, "robo hippy"
wrote:

I am lucky to have a Lennox blade dealer here in town, and can get
anything that I need from him. For general bowl blank roughing a
bimetal blade works best. They last a lot longer than other blades.
While I haven't used anything else, I have several friends who have
switched to them and this is what they have told me. They are a utility
blade and good for rough work. I do have a carbide tipped blade that
costs about double what a bimetal blade does (150 inch by 1 1/4 blade
$75 to $180). I did use one for bowl blanks for a while just to see how
they did. They work fine, but don't seem to last any longer. They are
made for resawing board stock, and the dealer said that they are a must
have if you are planning to resaw your own veneers. I can get a surface
that needs almost no sanding with them, but are overkill for bowls.
robo hippy

I spent a lot of time in front of industrial bandsaws over the years,
and the conclusion I came to was the same as above- the Lennox
bi-metal blades will cut almost as long and just as well as carbide
tipped, and cost less. They're just plain tough, and if they can cut
steel 24 hours a day for a week or better, I can't imagine that there
are many woods that are going to hurt them much!

You are probably right about the metal and wood bi-metal blades, and I
should have maybe been more specific in that I was talking about the
metal sawing bi-metal blades, that I use on my band saw, I have hung a
second motor plus a jack shaft on my band saw, to bring the speed of
the blade down to be able to saw metal on my band saw.
And those metal sawing blades need more beam strength and are thicker
as well, TPI are many more than 3 or 4, however I would expect that
there are blades with that number of TPI, but the Idea that there be at
least 3 teeth in the piece that is cut, would indicate the piece to be
at more than 1" thick, seems slow going with that few cutting edges,
but there are of course exceptions.
The metal sawing blades have mostly 12 or many more TPI.
The silicon steel instead of bi-metal is I think a result of the use of
smaller wheels and less HP, bi-metal are normally made with just the
front edge of the band being harder, the rest just more flexible steel,
making thus the name BI-METAL, however that harder edge is still
vulnerable to breaking, shortening the life of the band, silicon steel
has added wear resistance build in and is less likely to break, making
it the better choice for smaller saws IMO.
And as almost always there are exceptions, like very abrasive wood
etc., just my 2cents

My setup for sawing metal on a wood bandsaw
http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum22.html

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

robo hippy wrote:
This is a real head scratcher for me Leo, all I have ever used are bi
metal blades, and the only time I have any trouble with them is when
they are dull. I use 1/2 inch by 3 tpi on my small saw (PM industrial
1hp ), and a 1 1/4 inch blade with about 3/4 inch spaces between teeth.
Maybe they make bimetal wood and metal blades.
robo hippy
wrote:
Hi Prometheus

The problem with the bi-metal blades is to many TPI and not enough set
on them for sawing wet wood, they'll bind up and do just not work well
sawing wet wood I found, the once or twice I tried sawing wood on my
saw with the Bi-metal in place, also most BI-metal bands are wider than
thicker than the wood bands, they need more power and bigger wheel
sizes.
One other thing that does make a big difference is the saw speed in
metal sawing or wood sawing, where the wood sawing blades feed at
approx. 10X the speed of steel blades, as speed goes up so does the
friction and heat, but if you can find some bi-metal bands that do have
the 3 or 4 TPI with a good wide set than it might be more economical to
use one of those.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum22.html

Prometheus wrote:
On 18 Jan 2007 08:23:33 -0800, "robo hippy"
wrote:

I am lucky to have a Lennox blade dealer here in town, and can get
anything that I need from him. For general bowl blank roughing a
bimetal blade works best. They last a lot longer than other blades.
While I haven't used anything else, I have several friends who have
switched to them and this is what they have told me. They are a utility
blade and good for rough work. I do have a carbide tipped blade that
costs about double what a bimetal blade does (150 inch by 1 1/4 blade
$75 to $180). I did use one for bowl blanks for a while just to see how
they did. They work fine, but don't seem to last any longer. They are
made for resawing board stock, and the dealer said that they are a must
have if you are planning to resaw your own veneers. I can get a surface
that needs almost no sanding with them, but are overkill for bowls.
robo hippy

I spent a lot of time in front of industrial bandsaws over the years,
and the conclusion I came to was the same as above- the Lennox
bi-metal blades will cut almost as long and just as well as carbide
tipped, and cost less. They're just plain tough, and if they can cut
steel 24 hours a day for a week or better, I can't imagine that there
are many woods that are going to hurt them much!

On 20 Jan 2007 13:11:14 -0800, "
wrote:

You are probably right about the metal and wood bi-metal blades, and I
should have maybe been more specific in that I was talking about the
metal sawing bi-metal blades, that I use on my band saw, I have hung a
second motor plus a jack shaft on my band saw, to bring the speed of
the blade down to be able to saw metal on my band saw.
And those metal sawing blades need more beam strength and are thicker
as well, TPI are many more than 3 or 4, however I would expect that
there are blades with that number of TPI, but the Idea that there be at
least 3 teeth in the piece that is cut, would indicate the piece to be
at more than 1" thick, seems slow going with that few cutting edges,
but there are of course exceptions.
The metal sawing blades have mostly 12 or many more TPI.

Ah, now I see what you're talking about- those hacksaw-type blades you
can get for the bandsaw. As far as I know, those are for making nicer
cuts in things like sheet metal. What I was referring to are blades
for cutting off pipe or solid stock on a horizontal hydraulic or
gravity-fed bandsaw. In the case I was referring to, a higher tooth
count will give a nicer edge, but takes forever to cut anything- the
standard is a much lower TPI, and they can rip right though most
metals very quickly compared to what you're describing- though I am
thinking that if you were to put on on a vertical bandsaw and tried to
use it to cut thin metal, it would be a dangerous situation. Not bad
if you're resawing wood, though.

The silicon steel instead of bi-metal is I think a result of the use of
smaller wheels and less HP, bi-metal are normally made with just the
front edge of the band being harder, the rest just more flexible steel,
making thus the name BI-METAL, however that harder edge is still
vulnerable to breaking, shortening the life of the band, silicon steel
has added wear resistance build in and is less likely to break, making
it the better choice for smaller saws IMO.
And as almost always there are exceptions, like very abrasive wood
etc., just my 2cents

You may certainly be right there- a small woodshop bandsaw is not the
same thing as a big saw in a metal shop. Despite what I've said about
it in this thread, I just use the cheap bands they sell at Farm and
Fleet- they hold up well enough for the price, and I only have to
change them once or twice a year in any case. *But* I do not do any
resawing with my little 10" delta.

Prometheus

Yes I am aware of those saws and have used them, but in the maintenance
shop though we used upright band saws that you used to saw hand held
pieces, and used those blades with a high number of teeth, but I got
trained a long time ago with power hacksaws and you certainly would not
put any course tooth blade in for sawing pipes or other thin stuff, as
the teeth would be ripped right out the blade, that's where the 3 teeth
minimum in the material was taken as a rule of thumb, all those saws
where gravity saws, where a sliding weight was used to put more or less
pressure on the blade, I still have a thick fat nail on my left big toe
to remember one of those weights by, as a 3 or 4 year old, going in our
shop, against the rule, but there were always people and things going
on, so a real magnet for a little guy, however one time when I passed
by the power hacksaw just when a not properly clamped weight fell down
it landed on my toe, and got as a result a fat nail on that toe, got a
licking too for being in the shop when I wasn't supposed to be, I
learned some things the hard way.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo




Prometheus wrote:
On 20 Jan 2007 13:11:14 -0800, "
wrote:

You are probably right about the metal and wood bi-metal blades, and I
should have maybe been more specific in that I was talking about the
metal sawing bi-metal blades, that I use on my band saw, I have hung a
second motor plus a jack shaft on my band saw, to bring the speed of
the blade down to be able to saw metal on my band saw.
And those metal sawing blades need more beam strength and are thicker
as well, TPI are many more than 3 or 4, however I would expect that
there are blades with that number of TPI, but the Idea that there be at
least 3 teeth in the piece that is cut, would indicate the piece to be
at more than 1" thick, seems slow going with that few cutting edges,
but there are of course exceptions.
The metal sawing blades have mostly 12 or many more TPI.

Ah, now I see what you're talking about- those hacksaw-type blades you
can get for the bandsaw. As far as I know, those are for making nicer
cuts in things like sheet metal. What I was referring to are blades
for cutting off pipe or solid stock on a horizontal hydraulic or
gravity-fed bandsaw. In the case I was referring to, a higher tooth
count will give a nicer edge, but takes forever to cut anything- the
standard is a much lower TPI, and they can rip right though most
metals very quickly compared to what you're describing- though I am
thinking that if you were to put on on a vertical bandsaw and tried to
use it to cut thin metal, it would be a dangerous situation. Not bad
if you're resawing wood, though.

The silicon steel instead of bi-metal is I think a result of the use of
smaller wheels and less HP, bi-metal are normally made with just the
front edge of the band being harder, the rest just more flexible steel,
making thus the name BI-METAL, however that harder edge is still
vulnerable to breaking, shortening the life of the band, silicon steel
has added wear resistance build in and is less likely to break, making
it the better choice for smaller saws IMO.
And as almost always there are exceptions, like very abrasive wood
etc., just my 2cents

You may certainly be right there- a small woodshop bandsaw is not the
same thing as a big saw in a metal shop. Despite what I've said about
it in this thread, I just use the cheap bands they sell at Farm and
Fleet- they hold up well enough for the price, and I only have to
change them once or twice a year in any case. *But* I do not do any
resawing with my little 10" delta.

On 20 Jan 2007 23:56:14 -0800, "
wrote:

Prometheus

Yes I am aware of those saws and have used them, but in the maintenance
shop though we used upright band saws that you used to saw hand held
pieces, and used those blades with a high number of teeth, but I got
trained a long time ago with power hacksaws and you certainly would not
put any course tooth blade in for sawing pipes or other thin stuff, as
the teeth would be ripped right out the blade, that's where the 3 teeth
minimum in the material was taken as a rule of thumb, all those saws
where gravity saws, where a sliding weight was used to put more or less
pressure on the blade,

You know, I've never actually seen a power hacksaw in action, though
I've thought about trying to make something of the sort from time to
time, as a less expensive option than a bandsaw for pipe and angle
iron cutting, and less labor-intensive option than hand sawing (my
current method.) Would I be far off the mark in assuming that they
operate with a reciprocal action by attaching each end of the blade to
a cam wheel, with the downstroke applying the cutting force and
forward momentum, and the upstroke pulling the blade up and back? Did
they swivel on a single pivot, or ride on a pair of posts?

Far as the thin stuff goes, you are of course correct- the corse tooth
counts are for thicker material. There was a rule of thumb for blade
selection, though I am not sure that I can remember it correctly any
more- IIRC, 2-3 was for thicknesses greater than 1", 3-4 was for
..375"-1", and a finer tooth count was called for with anything
thinner. We never cut less than .375" thicknesses, though- and most
things were cut from several bars or tubes laid next to one another
and tack welded at the far end, making a 2-3 blade effective for
almost everything.

I still have a thick fat nail on my left big toe
to remember one of those weights by, as a 3 or 4 year old, going in our
shop, against the rule, but there were always people and things going
on, so a real magnet for a little guy, however one time when I passed
by the power hacksaw just when a not properly clamped weight fell down
it landed on my toe, and got as a result a fat nail on that toe, got a
licking too for being in the shop when I wasn't supposed to be, I
learned some things the hard way.

I've learned a lot of things the hard way, but luckily, no major foot
injuries. These days, I wear steel toes at all times, even when not
in the shop- though unfortunately, I've never had them save my toes.
Everything that ever fell on my feet has landed right on the top,
where the protection isn't!

Prometheus I'll try to give a very basic layout of a power hacksaw, you
can draw it out and see how this would work, but as a car engine is a
simple basic idea, building a good one is not very simple, and this
applies to most machine building, the size, weight, and shape,
direction of saw stroke forward and backwards etc. would make a big
difference in a good working saw and a no good one.

So think of a basic hand held hacksaw frame, add a wide long tail to
that(vertical wide) draw a long rather wide slot in that, in the slot
sits the driving shaft(so the tail is able to go back and forth), on
the front of that shaft, is a circular disk, on the disk is a stud
(sits in a slot in the disk to be able to change the length of the
stroke, but disregard that now for simplicities sake), there is also a
stud on the hacksaw frame, a arm connects the two studs, so now as the
disk turns around the arm will pull or push the frame, so thats the
basics.
Of course there is a frame where the hacksaws tail slides in,(with
adjustable gibs for wear) and on that part is a larger hollow shaft
connected with bearings for that drive shaft, than that whole assembly
is able to pivot up and down so as to make the saw able to go down
while sawing and lifted up for the placement of work pieces under the
blade, there are stops so the whole frame does not fall down when the
saw has cut al the way through the work piece, than there's a clamping
setup that's able to swivel, and etc. etc.

Build one yourself is of course possible, but rather involved, I do
know of a plan with drawings and dimensions, almost a "hand held" plan,
it is in "The shop wisdom of Frank McLean" by Village Press Inc.
Traverse City, Michigan.
Lee Valley used to carry it, but not anymore I think, a good book to
have with a bunch of good ideas and basic shop knowledge. You might be
able to get your hands on one, and I think it would serve you well, in
what you are planning to do.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Prometheus wrote:
On 20 Jan 2007 23:56:14 -0800, "
wrote:

Prometheus

Yes I am aware of those saws and have used them, but in the maintenance
shop though we used upright band saws that you used to saw hand held
pieces, and used those blades with a high number of teeth, but I got
trained a long time ago with power hacksaws and you certainly would not
put any course tooth blade in for sawing pipes or other thin stuff, as
the teeth would be ripped right out the blade, that's where the 3 teeth
minimum in the material was taken as a rule of thumb, all those saws
where gravity saws, where a sliding weight was used to put more or less
pressure on the blade,

You know, I've never actually seen a power hacksaw in action, though
I've thought about trying to make something of the sort from time to
time, as a less expensive option than a bandsaw for pipe and angle
iron cutting, and less labor-intensive option than hand sawing (my
current method.) Would I be far off the mark in assuming that they
operate with a reciprocal action by attaching each end of the blade to
a cam wheel, with the downstroke applying the cutting force and
forward momentum, and the upstroke pulling the blade up and back? Did
they swivel on a single pivot, or ride on a pair of posts?

Far as the thin stuff goes, you are of course correct- the corse tooth
counts are for thicker material. There was a rule of thumb for blade
selection, though I am not sure that I can remember it correctly any
more- IIRC, 2-3 was for thicknesses greater than 1", 3-4 was for
.375"-1", and a finer tooth count was called for with anything
thinner. We never cut less than .375" thicknesses, though- and most
things were cut from several bars or tubes laid next to one another
and tack welded at the far end, making a 2-3 blade effective for
almost everything.

I still have a thick fat nail on my left big toe
to remember one of those weights by, as a 3 or 4 year old, going in our
shop, against the rule, but there were always people and things going
on, so a real magnet for a little guy, however one time when I passed
by the power hacksaw just when a not properly clamped weight fell down
it landed on my toe, and got as a result a fat nail on that toe, got a
licking too for being in the shop when I wasn't supposed to be, I
learned some things the hard way.

I've learned a lot of things the hard way, but luckily, no major foot
injuries. These days, I wear steel toes at all times, even when not
in the shop- though unfortunately, I've never had them save my toes.
Everything that ever fell on my feet has landed right on the top,
where the protection isn't!

Hello Darrell,

Glad to hear you're still using my bandsaw blade sharpening protocol and
that it has helped you a wee bit. :-) It has saved me several thousand
dollars over the years and I still use it regularly. I routinely get about
8-10 sharpenings on my steel bands with the abrasive wheels (150" bands) and
about 15-20 on the carbide bands with diamond wheels.

For those who may not know about my resharpening protocol for bandsaw
blades, point your browser to the following URL for the article:

http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com...aw-blades.html

If any of you have woodturning websites, you may wish to add a link to this
page to help visitors to your site take advantage of this time and money
saving protocol.

The protocol works equally well on steel and carbide bands and I have used
it many times on both types of bands. Of course, with carbide bands, you
need to use diamond disks to resharpen the carbide teeth.

If you have questions, or if I can assist you in any way, please do not
hesitate to contact me. Take care and all the best to you and yours!


On 1/18/07 8:24 AM, in article QqLrh.162771$YV4.95102@edtnps89, "Darrell
Feltmate" wrote:

Steve I get regular bandsaw blades from http://tufftooth.com/ and find both
the blades and the service excellent. They also have silicon steel blades
similar to the Timber Wolf and these are excellent as well. I sharpen my
blades a la Steve Russell and find that i get about three sharpenings per
blade before metal fatigue sets in on my 72" blade. If you do go the carbide
route it would be nice to know how it works out.

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

Website: www.woodturningvideosplus.com

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment

Thanks Steve. The protocol works a treat. My small bandsaw uses 72" blades
and metal fatigue sets in after the first 3 or 4 sharpenings and the blade
finally breaks, but that is still a lot more cutting per blade and the saw
has no trouble with 5" of maple.
___
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"Steve Russell" wrote in message
...
Hello Darrell,

Glad to hear you're still using my bandsaw blade sharpening protocol and
that it has helped you a wee bit. :-) It has saved me several thousand
dollars over the years and I still use it regularly. I routinely get about
8-10 sharpenings on my steel bands with the abrasive wheels (150" bands)
and
about 15-20 on the carbide bands with diamond wheels.

For those who may not know about my resharpening protocol for bandsaw
blades, point your browser to the following URL for the article:

http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com...aw-blades.html

If any of you have woodturning websites, you may wish to add a link to
this
page to help visitors to your site take advantage of this time and money
saving protocol.

The protocol works equally well on steel and carbide bands and I have used
it many times on both types of bands. Of course, with carbide bands, you
need to use diamond disks to resharpen the carbide teeth.

If you have questions, or if I can assist you in any way, please do not
hesitate to contact me. Take care and all the best to you and yours!


On 1/18/07 8:24 AM, in article QqLrh.162771$YV4.95102@edtnps89, "Darrell
Feltmate" wrote:

Steve I get regular bandsaw blades from http://tufftooth.com/ and find
both
the blades and the service excellent. They also have silicon steel blades
similar to the Timber Wolf and these are excellent as well. I sharpen my
blades a la Steve Russell and find that i get about three sharpenings per
blade before metal fatigue sets in on my 72" blade. If you do go the
carbide
route it would be nice to know how it works out.

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

Website: www.woodturningvideosplus.com

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:f7fth.179473$hn.72757@edtnps82...
My small bandsaw uses 72" blades and metal fatigue sets in after the first
3 or 4 sharpenings and the blade finally breaks, but that is still a lot
more cutting per blade and the saw has no trouble with 5" of maple.

Changed the blade on my 14 Delta yesterday, and as I went to fold and
compact the old blade it snapped. For grins I bent it again elsewhere and
it snapped with a quarter inch between bands.

Work-hardening, metal fatigue, corrosion can all take their toll. Be
careful while you're being economical. New one's a Suffolk, as the bargain
bands are now gone.

On 21 Jan 2007 20:21:57 -0800, "
wrote:

Prometheus I'll try to give a very basic layout of a power hacksaw, you
can draw it out and see how this would work, but as a car engine is a
simple basic idea, building a good one is not very simple, and this
applies to most machine building, the size, weight, and shape,
direction of saw stroke forward and backwards etc. would make a big
difference in a good working saw and a no good one.

Oh, I usually do okay. I'm a big believer in building in room for
adjustments. And, I generally assume some degree of failure is going
to occur in a prototype so that if it does, I'm prepared, and if it
doesn't, I'm extra pleased.

So think of a basic hand held hacksaw frame, add a wide long tail to
that(vertical wide) draw a long rather wide slot in that, in the slot
sits the driving shaft(so the tail is able to go back and forth), on
the front of that shaft, is a circular disk, on the disk is a stud
(sits in a slot in the disk to be able to change the length of the
stroke, but disregard that now for simplicities sake), there is also a
stud on the hacksaw frame, a arm connects the two studs, so now as the
disk turns around the arm will pull or push the frame, so thats the
basics.

Gotcha. Similar to what I had in mind, with that "tail" being the bit
that makes the difference.

Of course there is a frame where the hacksaws tail slides in,(with
adjustable gibs for wear) and on that part is a larger hollow shaft
connected with bearings for that drive shaft, than that whole assembly
is able to pivot up and down so as to make the saw able to go down
while sawing and lifted up for the placement of work pieces under the
blade, there are stops so the whole frame does not fall down when the
saw has cut al the way through the work piece, than there's a clamping
setup that's able to swivel, and etc. etc.

Sounds good- thanks for the detailed description!

Build one yourself is of course possible, but rather involved, I do
know of a plan with drawings and dimensions, almost a "hand held" plan,
it is in "The shop wisdom of Frank McLean" by Village Press Inc.
Traverse City, Michigan.
Lee Valley used to carry it, but not anymore I think, a good book to
have with a bunch of good ideas and basic shop knowledge. You might be
able to get your hands on one, and I think it would serve you well, in
what you are planning to do.

If that doesn't pan out, and I hit a snag or two, I believe Lindsay
press has a couple of plans on offer as well. Far as it being
involved goes, that doesn't bother me a bit- I have the most fun when
my brain has a little strain on it.

Maybe a different tool - SawzAll bayonet saw - with "demolition"
blades. Cut to close to round - on the driveway. Easy to clean
up, blades a lot cheaper and a whole lot quicker to change. You
don't need perfect rounds, that's what roughing gouges do.

charlie b

You know, Charlie makes a lot of sense. I hardly ever use the bandsaw on
bowls over 8" diam. I just use the chain saw to know off the corners and
then fine it up if necessary. I can get a 15" chainsawn bowl blank over the
bed of my 15" lathe and still turn it without hitting obstructions so that
is plenty "round" for me. I have an electric for inside the shop (-14* C
plus windchill to -30 the other day) and my Stihl for outdoors. I find it
easier and safer than a bandaw.
___
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"charlie b" wrote in message
...
Maybe a different tool - SawzAll bayonet saw - with "demolition"
blades. Cut to close to round - on the driveway. Easy to clean
up, blades a lot cheaper and a whole lot quicker to change. You
don't need perfect rounds, that's what roughing gouges do.

charlie b

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 06:31:06 -0800, charlie b
wrote:

Maybe a different tool - SawzAll bayonet saw - with "demolition"
blades. Cut to close to round - on the driveway. Easy to clean
up, blades a lot cheaper and a whole lot quicker to change. You
don't need perfect rounds, that's what roughing gouges do.

Ick. I did that for a while before I got my chainsaw- and while it
did work, I don't think I'll be repeating that chore anytime soon.
Better off sticking with the chainsaw, since you've already got it out
and all.