One of my concerns as a former teacher is the lack of industrial arts
teaching in our present school system. Perhaps you are fortunate to still
live in an area where the trades are respected enough to be part of the
formal secondary school system. Not in most of our schools in Canada. Budget
cuts have cost us our table saws, our drill presses and our wood lathes.
While this has meant some bargains for purchasers of used equipment, it has
been a real loss for our children and a trial for our teachers.
Not all children are destined for greatness in computer science or further
academia; not all are future doctors, lawyers, or other white collar
workers. Some like to get their hands dirty with some auto grease or
sawdust; some flour or fabric; some paint and plumbing adhesive. If you take
a child with little interest in history and math and remove their outlet in
learning wood turning or auto repair, you remove the opportunity to teach
some of that history and math and create a frustrated child at the same
time. Frustrated children create frustrated teachers, trust me on this one!
In a saner day we taught industrial arts and home economics. One of the
courses taught in some schools was wood turning. One text book use was
Milton and Wohlers "A Course in Woodturning", 1919. The text is available
online from Project Gutenberg and I have now reformatted it and placed it on
my web site as well. I hope you enjoy it for the historic context and also
because there is a lot to learn here. Over the next year of so I need to
update a lot of it for today's hobby turners but there is some great stuff
here. I hope you enjoy it.
http://aroundthewoods.com/book1/preface.html

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:BYPoh.139721$hn.117987@edtnps82...
.. One text book use was
Milton and Wohlers "A Course in Woodturning", 1919. The text is available
online from Project Gutenberg and I have now reformatted it and placed it
on my web site as well. I hope you enjoy it for the historic context and
also because there is a lot to learn here. Over the next year of so I need
to update a lot of it for today's hobby turners but there is some great
stuff here. I hope you enjoy it.
http://aroundthewoods.com/book1/preface.html


Got the one from Gutenberg a while back. Good source.

As to teaching, I think I taught as many kids fractions, Physics, and Botany
in the shop as their classroom teachers did. Used to end up helping with
other homework when I had an "open shop" for a couple hours after school for
kids who wanted to work on projects, too. Sometimes all it takes is that
one different analogy or that one visualization to turn the "off" switch to
"on."

When it happens, two lives are brightened.

Hi Darrel, A good post and a worthy addition to your fine web site. I
noticed you wrote 'trades' instead of 'crafts'. I've never heard a
competent carpenter or plumber or any other tradesman refer to himself
as a craftsman. As with the arts and professions, some tradesmen assume
the mantle of 'Master Craftsman' for status or to advance their
business. The ultimate was one of my professors who on being asked why
he wasn't 'board certified' answered "who could test me?" Anyway,
tradesmen are much in demand here and the good ones are treated with a
respect that approaches deference.

Probably most schools could afford to budget for shop space, tools and
teachers, but not to budget for out of control liability risks.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Thanks George. When I taught math, half the class sounded like carpentry
101. Measurement, angle, geometry, line, rise, run... all the basics. Makes
you wonder why we do not have a place in school to apply so the stuff stays.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"George" wrote in message
. ..

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:BYPoh.139721$hn.117987@edtnps82...
. One text book use was
Milton and Wohlers "A Course in Woodturning", 1919. The text is available
online from Project Gutenberg and I have now reformatted it and placed it
on my web site as well. I hope you enjoy it for the historic context and
also because there is a lot to learn here. Over the next year of so I
need to update a lot of it for today's hobby turners but there is some
great stuff here. I hope you enjoy it.
http://aroundthewoods.com/book1/preface.html


Got the one from Gutenberg a while back. Good source.

As to teaching, I think I taught as many kids fractions, Physics, and
Botany in the shop as their classroom teachers did. Used to end up
helping with other homework when I had an "open shop" for a couple hours
after school for kids who wanted to work on projects, too. Sometimes all
it takes is that one different analogy or that one visualization to turn
the "off" switch to "on."

When it happens, two lives are brightened.

Arch
My nephew is a smart lad who did not like high school. When he graduated
(just) he decided to try a welding course. Not only did he find a hidden
talent but he also started to enjoy the academic subjects at the same time.
Having finished his first year he was been hired by a company at $26.00 an
hour plus all the over time he wants. Their stipulations are he has to
complete the second year of the course, which they will pay for, and then
committ to a 2 year further term with them, at a raise. When he finishes the
course he is getting married and then the company is moving him and his
bride to Alberta to work. Sounds like high regard to me. Why do degrees
sound so much better to folks who should know better?

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"Arch" wrote in message
...
Hi Darrel, A good post and a worthy addition to your fine web site. I
noticed you wrote 'trades' instead of 'crafts'. I've never heard a
competent carpenter or plumber or any other tradesman refer to himself
as a craftsman. As with the arts and professions, some tradesmen assume
the mantle of 'Master Craftsman' for status or to advance their
business. The ultimate was one of my professors who on being asked why
he wasn't 'board certified' answered "who could test me?" Anyway,
tradesmen are much in demand here and the good ones are treated with a
respect that approaches deference.

Probably most schools could afford to budget for shop space, tools and
teachers, but not to budget for out of control liability risks.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Another fine contribution to everyone. The PG site was new to me - thanks.

TomNie

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:EXSoh.124230$YV4.7710@edtnps89...
Why do degrees
sound so much better to folks who should know better?

Well, time was a degree was an indication of an education. Now, of course,
many college programs are closer to trade training. Trades help you do,
education helps you understand what you're doing, and perhaps even why it
works.

"George" wrote in
:


"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:EXSoh.124230$YV4.7710@edtnps89...
Why do degrees
sound so much better to folks who should know better?

Well, time was a degree was an indication of an education. Now, of
course, many college programs are closer to trade training. Trades
help you do, education helps you understand what you're doing, and
perhaps even why it works.


First to Darrell: Well said. I agree wholeheartedly.

Second, I may be part of a very small community that:
1. Completed my apprentiship as a carpenter and worked in the craft
for many years.
2. At night completed my baccalaureate degree before my kids, ( A
personal goal)
3. Liked going to school so much that I competed my Master's about
three years later.

I have all three sheepskins hanging on my office wall and all are
equally important to me personally and professionally.

There was a time, when I was a young journeyman, that my paycheck took
care of my family. When I got to be a foreman, life was good and we could
afford some of the "extras". Today, as I sit in an office and look out at
the youngsters working their tails off for a wage that barely covers the
essentials and forces many of the married folks to have their partners
work just to keep their heads above water, I am amazed that there isn't a
revolution in the making. There are of course many reasons, weak or non
existent unions, illegal immigration depressing wages, folks willing to
do the job for a lesser wage or benefit package, just to name few. This
is consistent with the American war on the middle class, and the push to
make the workers put out more product for less wages so the CEO's and
bureaucrats can get their goodies.

Just today, I had a meeting with a sales person trying to sell me kitchen
caabinets for a condo project that are made in China and shipped to the
US. The sales person guaranteed that he could beat the American price by
40%. Huuurmmph. I'll be damned if I am going to contribute to my
neighbors and fellow workers by taking a cheaper price now and pay for it
years later when society is split between the very rich and the poor
working class and the middle class be hanged.

Sorry for venting, but the day of the tradesman is being supplented by
the importer and broker. Damn it all.

My pleasure.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
Another fine contribution to everyone. The PG site was new to me - thanks.

TomNie

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote:

One of my concerns as a former teacher is the lack of industrial arts
teaching in our present school system. Perhaps you are fortunate to still
live in an area where the trades are respected enough to be part of the
formal secondary school system. Not in most of our schools in Canada. Budget
cuts have cost us our table saws, our drill presses and our wood lathes.
While this has meant some bargains for purchasers of used equipment, it has
been a real loss for our children and a trial for our teachers.
Not all children are destined for greatness in computer science or further
academia; not all are future doctors, lawyers, or other white collar
workers. Some like to get their hands dirty with some auto grease or
sawdust; some flour or fabric; some paint and plumbing adhesive. If you take
a child with little interest in history and math and remove their outlet in
learning wood turning or auto repair, you remove the opportunity to teach
some of that history and math and create a frustrated child at the same
time. Frustrated children create frustrated teachers, trust me on this one!
In a saner day we taught industrial arts and home economics. One of the
courses taught in some schools was wood turning. One text book use was
Milton and Wohlers "A Course in Woodturning", 1919. The text is available
online from Project Gutenberg and I have now reformatted it and placed it on
my web site as well. I hope you enjoy it for the historic context and also
because there is a lot to learn here. Over the next year of so I need to
update a lot of it for today's hobby turners but there is some great stuff
here. I hope you enjoy it.
http://aroundthewoods.com/book1/preface.html

In my life I found that the eyes, the brain and the hands are strongly
linked. The human species probably developed there intelligence by making
tools and using themin order to make living more comfortable.
For me, sound thinking comes from working with my hands, (like
woodturning;-)

--
Gerard

Darrell Feltmate wrote:
One of my concerns as a former teacher is the lack of industrial arts
teaching in our present school system.

Darrell, a very worthy effort, indeed.

Bill



--
It will, I believe, be everywhere found, that as the clergy are, or are
not what they ought to be, so are the rest of the nation.
Jane Austen (1775 - 1817), Mansfield Park
http://nmwoodworks.com


---
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Virus Database (VPS): 0702-0, 01/09/2007
Tested on: 1/10/2007 3:15:46 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:30:28 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Why do degrees sound so much better to folks who should know better?

Probably because they are too scared of working ?

On the radio or idiot box, nobody refers to going to the workshop,
factory or shop == always going to the office snobbery ?? I
am better than you attitude ? lack of intelligence ( most likely ) ?

My "office" was a corner of my laboratory with a desk where I did the
paperwork, the real work was the AAS and other test equipment where
the product was analysed for quality.
That was 11 years ago, since retiring I have passed my amateur
radio licence, improved my woodturning, metalwork & cabinetmaking
skills and completely built the interior of my last house and now have
lots to do on this one. Priority - remake kitchen, extend woodwork
shed, enclose patio and make timber deck instead of concrete slabs,
after ground is prepared and seatainer delivered convert it to a
metalworking shop
Alan, in Gosnells, Western Oz.
VK6 YAB VKS 737 - W 6174

Last year there was a long runnign commentary in Wood Shop News
magazine, and it all centered about the demise of the woodshop, auto,
and welding classes in the highschools. For me, if I had woodshop
available to me, that would have been one class other than PE that I
would have gotten straight A's in. No, they won't reach everyone, but
you probably will have the same number of students going into those
careers as the other classes.
robo hippy
Test Tickle wrote:
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:24:14 -0600, Karl B
wrote:

"George" wrote in
:


"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:EXSoh.124230$YV4.7710@edtnps89...
Why do degrees
sound so much better to folks who should know better?

Well, time was a degree was an indication of an education. Now, of
course, many college programs are closer to trade training. Trades
help you do, education helps you understand what you're doing, and
perhaps even why it works.


First to Darrell: Well said. I agree wholeheartedly.

Second, I may be part of a very small community that:
1. Completed my apprentiship as a carpenter and worked in the craft
for many years.
2. At night completed my baccalaureate degree before my kids, ( A
personal goal)
3. Liked going to school so much that I competed my Master's about
three years later.

I have all three sheepskins hanging on my office wall and all are
equally important to me personally and professionally.

There was a time, when I was a young journeyman, that my paycheck took
care of my family. When I got to be a foreman, life was good and we could
afford some of the "extras". Today, as I sit in an office and look out at
the youngsters working their tails off for a wage that barely covers the
essentials and forces many of the married folks to have their partners
work just to keep their heads above water, I am amazed that there isn't a
revolution in the making. There are of course many reasons, weak or non
existent unions, illegal immigration depressing wages, folks willing to
do the job for a lesser wage or benefit package, just to name few. This
is consistent with the American war on the middle class, and the push to
make the workers put out more product for less wages so the CEO's and
bureaucrats can get their goodies.

Just today, I had a meeting with a sales person trying to sell me kitchen
caabinets for a condo project that are made in China and shipped to the
US. The sales person guaranteed that he could beat the American price by
40%. Huuurmmph. I'll be damned if I am going to contribute to my
neighbors and fellow workers by taking a cheaper price now and pay for it
years later when society is split between the very rich and the poor
working class and the middle class be hanged.

Sorry for venting, but the day of the tradesman is being supplented by
the importer and broker. Damn it all.


Well said. Very well said indeed.

tt

Darrell Feltmate wrote:


because there is a lot to learn here. Over the next year of so I need to
update a lot of it for today's hobby turners but there is some great stuff
here. I hope you enjoy it.
http://aroundthewoods.com/book1/preface.html

He got it eight when he said "woodturning embodies both the work and
play elements."

Notice the spindle turning tools are much shorter than the ones we use
today.

Thanks for putting this in an easy to read format.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Ambition is a poor excuse for not
having the good sense to be lazy.

"Arch" wrote in message
...
snip

Probably most schools could afford to budget for shop space, tools and
teachers, but not to budget for out of control liability risks.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


Not in Palm Beach County. It seems like they want to cut every class
that is not considered `academic'; when my daughter was in middle school,
the parents and kids had to protest to get the school to keep offering the
Band class. I think (not sure) that the only high schools offering any kind
of `Shop' class are Charter schools.

When I was in high school O' So Many Ages Past (1975), I was planning to
be an engineer and most of my classes were the ones to help me get ready for
college - the only non-academic classes I took were Band and Electronics. I
didn't even think about taking a `Shop' class - they were just for the kids
who were not going on to college (because they couldn't get high enough
grades for college). Burned my self out in college, dropped out, worked
retail for 12 years, went to a Tech school for my A.A. and became a CAD Tech
for an engineering company. Did some woodworking over the years, with what
I picked up from my Dad (who was a farmer, who told me to never become a
farmer) and stumbled into Woodturning a couple of years ago thru a class at
WoodCraft.

Being smarter now (I hope) than I was back then, I REGRET that I never
took Wood Shop. To have been taught the proper way to use all the tools
would have been great - there are so many things I don't know about
woodworking. And the kids who took those courses weren't dumb, they were
just looking for something different than college. So please consider this
my apology to all the `Shop' kids I might have looked down on back then. And
I hope the school systems will come to their senses and go back to offering
all of those classes - we (society) need them.

Tom S.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 07:22:28 -0500, Tom S wrote:

"Arch" wrote in message
...
snip

Probably most schools could afford to budget for shop space, tools and
teachers, but not to budget for out of control liability risks.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


Not in Palm Beach County. It seems like they want to cut every class
that is not considered `academic'; when my daughter was in middle school,
the parents and kids had to protest to get the school to keep offering the
Band class. I think (not sure) that the only high schools offering any kind
of `Shop' class are Charter schools.

When I was in high school O' So Many Ages Past (1975), I was planning to
be an engineer and most of my classes were the ones to help me get ready for
college - the only non-academic classes I took were Band and Electronics. I
didn't even think about taking a `Shop' class - they were just for the kids
who were not going on to college (because they couldn't get high enough
grades for college). Burned my self out in college, dropped out, worked
retail for 12 years, went to a Tech school for my A.A. and became a CAD Tech
for an engineering company. Did some woodworking over the years, with what
I picked up from my Dad (who was a farmer, who told me to never become a
farmer) and stumbled into Woodturning a couple of years ago thru a class at
WoodCraft.

Being smarter now (I hope) than I was back then, I REGRET that I never
took Wood Shop. To have been taught the proper way to use all the tools
would have been great - there are so many things I don't know about
woodworking. And the kids who took those courses weren't dumb, they were
just looking for something different than college. So please consider this
my apology to all the `Shop' kids I might have looked down on back then. And
I hope the school systems will come to their senses and go back to offering
all of those classes - we (society) need them.

There's a political objection to shop classes you know. One of the
principles of educational theory (as explained to me by someone with a PhD
in education) is that any teacher can teach any subject--it's knowing the
techniques of teaching that count, not knowing the subject.

When they take someone who has no knowledge of working with tools and
attempt to put this theory into practice in a shop class, somebody gets
hurt. Hence the shop teacher has to have some expertise, and that shows
that the educational emperor wears no clothes, so we can't have that.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

So what are we supposed to do when the roof leaks if we can not repair it
ourselves? Get a computer tech or a business manager to fix it? When someone
has to work on my plumbing or electrical or for that matter my car brakes, I
want them trained and trained well, not to mention smart.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 07:22:28 -0500, Tom S wrote:

"Arch" wrote in message
...
snip

Probably most schools could afford to budget for shop space, tools and
teachers, but not to budget for out of control liability risks.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


Not in Palm Beach County. It seems like they want to cut every class
that is not considered `academic'; when my daughter was in middle school,
the parents and kids had to protest to get the school to keep offering
the
Band class. I think (not sure) that the only high schools offering any
kind
of `Shop' class are Charter schools.

When I was in high school O' So Many Ages Past (1975), I was planning
to
be an engineer and most of my classes were the ones to help me get ready
for
college - the only non-academic classes I took were Band and Electronics.
I
didn't even think about taking a `Shop' class - they were just for the
kids
who were not going on to college (because they couldn't get high enough
grades for college). Burned my self out in college, dropped out, worked
retail for 12 years, went to a Tech school for my A.A. and became a CAD
Tech
for an engineering company. Did some woodworking over the years, with
what
I picked up from my Dad (who was a farmer, who told me to never become a
farmer) and stumbled into Woodturning a couple of years ago thru a class
at
WoodCraft.

Being smarter now (I hope) than I was back then, I REGRET that I
never
took Wood Shop. To have been taught the proper way to use all the tools
would have been great - there are so many things I don't know about
woodworking. And the kids who took those courses weren't dumb, they were
just looking for something different than college. So please consider
this
my apology to all the `Shop' kids I might have looked down on back then.
And
I hope the school systems will come to their senses and go back to
offering
all of those classes - we (society) need them.

There's a political objection to shop classes you know. One of the
principles of educational theory (as explained to me by someone with a PhD
in education) is that any teacher can teach any subject--it's knowing the
techniques of teaching that count, not knowing the subject.

When they take someone who has no knowledge of working with tools and
attempt to put this theory into practice in a shop class, somebody gets
hurt. Hence the shop teacher has to have some expertise, and that shows
that the educational emperor wears no clothes, so we can't have that.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

O, they will cut shop, band and anything else they can but not Football too
many $$$$ involed
"Tom S" wrote in message
...

"Arch" wrote in message
...
snip

Probably most schools could afford to budget for shop space, tools and
teachers, but not to budget for out of control liability risks.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


Not in Palm Beach County. It seems like they want to cut every class
that is not considered `academic'; when my daughter was in middle school,
the parents and kids had to protest to get the school to keep offering the
Band class. I think (not sure) that the only high schools offering any
kind
of `Shop' class are Charter schools.

When I was in high school O' So Many Ages Past (1975), I was planning
to
be an engineer and most of my classes were the ones to help me get ready
for
college - the only non-academic classes I took were Band and Electronics.
I
didn't even think about taking a `Shop' class - they were just for the
kids
who were not going on to college (because they couldn't get high enough
grades for college). Burned my self out in college, dropped out, worked
retail for 12 years, went to a Tech school for my A.A. and became a CAD
Tech
for an engineering company. Did some woodworking over the years, with
what
I picked up from my Dad (who was a farmer, who told me to never become a
farmer) and stumbled into Woodturning a couple of years ago thru a class
at
WoodCraft.

Being smarter now (I hope) than I was back then, I REGRET that I never
took Wood Shop. To have been taught the proper way to use all the tools
would have been great - there are so many things I don't know about
woodworking. And the kids who took those courses weren't dumb, they were
just looking for something different than college. So please consider this
my apology to all the `Shop' kids I might have looked down on back then.
And
I hope the school systems will come to their senses and go back to
offering
all of those classes - we (society) need them.

Tom S.