When I was a kid, growing up In the tropics, Mango Season was a marker
of every year. We learned which Mango trees had the best mangoes and
developed an eye for when they were at their ripening best. We also came
up with ingenious methods for getting the particular mango we wanted off
that tree and into our salivating mouths. We’d cut long bamboo poles,
fashion a coat hanger “picker” and even adapted a butterfly net to our
contraptions in order the capture our mango and get it to us unbruised
by a fall.

But the BEST mangoes couldn’t be reached from the ground, at least not
by a kid. Adults had devices that could probably do it, but we didn’t
have access to those devices (oh to have had a cherry picker back
then). The alternative was to climb the tree and get the mango we
wanted - from inside. And thus we learned many things - to distinguish
between a branch that would support us and the ones that wouldn’t
(critical when you’re 30 or more feet off the ground), which side of the
tree the mangoes ripened first, where on the tree the best mangos could
usually be found, etc.. We also found tree climbing, even when there
were no mangoes on it, was fun all by itself.

Woodworking is a very broad term, and like a Mango tree, has many
branches (and roots). There are countless mangoes ultimately connecting
back to the woodworking trunk. Following any given branch presents many
forks in the path to a particular perfect mango. Some people follow one
branch to that mango, never doubling back to see where another branch at
the last fork might lead. Others want to explore ALL the main branches
and perhaps go out two or three forks before encountering the place on
the tree they’re comfortable and satisfied with. They are content to
just imagine what that ripe mango out on the end of that branch would
taste like. Then there’s the Curious George monkey, who wants to explore
the WHOLE tree, and dies trying, never finding The Perfect Mango, but
having touched, or tasted as many mangoes as possible.

If you stand back from the woodworking tree and study it a bit before
beginning to climb, you may be able to see the branch or even the mango
you want to get to. But you might not be able to see, or could
overlook, a branch or two or a few choice mangoes that would suit you
better.

So, after all that lead in, and to get back to the subject line, my
question is:

Do you think it’s better to try many areas of woodworking and only then
pursue a particular path

or

Would it be better to read about, and perhaps observe a lot of different
types of woodworking and THEN select one or two to pursue seriously?

Or

Try them all and shoot for “adequate” in most of them?

Personally, I like to try a bit (and then some) of everything and if one
interests me, follow it ‘til it requires more skill and/or abilities
than I’m willing to put out - OR - some other shiny thing catches my
eye.

Is turning your choice mango, or one of the many you enjoy?

Do you dabble in everything or immerse yourself totally in one area of
woodworking?

charlie b

charlie b said:

When I was a kid, growing up In the tropics, Mango Season was a marker

snip of revealing analogy

Do you think it’s better to try many areas of woodworking and only then
pursue a particular path

As with all things in life - everyone makes these determinations for
themselves. Each individual's upbringing and life's experiences
provokes him/her to pursue different paths and techniques for
survival.

As for me, I tend to try everything I can get my hands on. For lack
of time, some things inevitably fall by the wayside. The truly
genuine interests linger on for a lifetime. That is what makes life
so broad, deep, and interesting - the challenge of many things, and
the determination and skill to succeed at each that you attempt. Up
until the point that you die trying or from natural causes - it's a
large part of what makes life worth living.

SWMBO thinks that it is a roller coaster ride that never ends - she
does the same thing every day, at the same time - but that is not a
bad thing, it's just the way it is. She is the trunk of the tree, the
stability that probably keeps me from falling from that far reaching,
but weakened limb to my death.

Do what you feel comfortable with, what you enjoy, and damned the
torpedoes. ;-)

BTW, Enjoyed the story!

Greg G.

charlie b:

Intersting post, and opens up other facets of woodworking as well. I
have been doing general carpentry of all sorts for almost 35 years.

I have built everything from concrete forms to barrister's bookcases.
When I started, it was just at the end of the era where a carpenter had
to know how to do anything
with wood. We made our own jigs on site, made our own trim from time
to time, made doors from scratch (including jambs, stops, and hinges
without templates), paneled walls, framed walls and structures, hung
sheetrock, etc. We regularly made small custom cabinets for kitchens,
bathrooms and the helpers made the cabs in utility areas and put up the
shelves. We even did some simple finishing in those days.

I was pretty much on the job from start to finish. I worked with some
excellent craftsmen along the way that taught me more than I could tell
you in a week about carpentry.

Now, all this time later as a self employed remodeling/repair
contractor, I am not too excited about woodworking. Design, measure,
fit, sand, secure. Yawn. Every once in a while an interesting project
will peak my interest like a new built in or a request for a piece of
furniture to fit in a specific space, but not too often.

But I found a few years ago that I missed the sawdust for fun aspect
that got me into carpentry. So on a lark I got a lathe. I started
having fun again.

I loved it as I saw it as sculpting wood. I started having fun again.
And back in "96/'97 when I got my Jet mini, it was the first time I had
turned since high school shop class, almost 25 years before. Also in
'96/'97 there weren't nearly as many turners and I was able to pay for
my lathe, tools, and goodies by making pens and ornaments and selling
them. Those are now a high school projects for the local shop class.

I have turned several cords of wood, and have even had to rebuild part
of my Jet. I still love turning as it is like no other aspect of my
carpentry business. I am now working on several Christmas projects for
family and friends, as well as a few to sell. I have four lathes, and
at least two of them see service for one thing or another almost all
the time.

I now do some teaching and give demos on different aspects of
woodturning. With my own personal experience as a flat woodworker I
think I have a different look at the spinning of wood, and having
trained many a carpenter over the years has made me a better teacher
than I would be if I was just getting the hang of this one aspect of
woodworking.

It is too much fun to spin the wood, and now most of my flat work is
for clients only. I really feel like anyone that has any interest in
the smell of sawdust, the feel of wood, and the personal drive to make
something should look at all aspects of woodworking.

As a personal opinion, I don't have too much respect for many of the
wood turners in our club as they like to think of themselves of some
kind of classic woodworkers, linked to the ancient craftsmen in their
values, skills, and art. And damn are they snobby. Yet, just a
hundred years ago, a carpenter or cabinet maker had to be proficient at
many aspects of of woodworking. Wood turning is only one aspect of
what woodworkers do and I think your analogy to the mango tree fits
this well.

I can take bowl man out to adjust a door on a shifted frame, and all
his knowledge back to the ancients fail him. I can take spindle guy
out to build a bathroom vanity with half lap doors over
rail/stile/carcass and get out the skill saw, router and sander and he
will be lost.

It is not lost on me that most of the finest turners I have met turn
out to be the nicest, most generous people you could meet. Even our
guest demonstrators are usually great guys. The absolutely best
turners in our club (except one... there's always one...) have invited
me to their houses so I can check out their setups or check out a tool
or technique. They have stayed late after our meetings to show me
something, or now on occasion when they have a question for me.

The tree of what we do is indeed quite large. There is no end to what
you can do with wood and imagination. And if you please yourself, that
is certainly enough. I believe you should go wherever your heart
desires, do what you want, and when you are suffieciently pleased with
your results and your skills in a certain area, move onto the next
project, whatever that might be.

A turned ornament, a birdhouse with the grandkids or nieces/nephews, a
new coffee table, a new deck, a new front door, a tree house, new
kitchen cabs.... I say "jump in, the water's fine!"

Robert

said:

charlie b:

Intersting post, and opens up other facets of woodworking as well.

snip of life's experiences

A turned ornament, a birdhouse with the grandkids or nieces/nephews, a
new coffee table, a new deck, a new front door, a tree house, new
kitchen cabs.... I say "jump in, the water's fine!"

Hear, Hear!

Hey, what are YOU doing in here? You're supposed to be over in the
wRec. ;-)


Greg G.

"charlie b" wrote in message
...
Do you think it's better to try many areas of woodworking and only then
pursue a particular path


I'm totally immersed in whichever aspect of woodworking I'm doing at the
moment. Last week it was moldings for a new kitchen floor at my daughter's,
couple weeks before it was cabinets for displaying collectables. In between
it's cleaning my shop so I can turn, then cleaning it so I can make cope and
mold doors when the son-in-law comes over.

Nothing you learn is ever wasted. We're analog wired between the ears, so
knowledge is applied to circumstance by analogy, same way it's learned. For
instance, some extol sharpening jigs for the repeatability of the pattern,
which, by analogy seems they are creating something especially suitable for
machine mounting in another jig to cut material of uniform consistency and
pattern. Those cutters on the copy jigs and CNC devices are quite precise.

Others see the wood as different from species to species, or even piece to
piece, much less in orientation on the lathe, and infer that the same tool
or pattern is not required, and may not even be the best at angle X or with
wood Y. They are castigated because they don't do it the way someone else's
hero does it.

Oh well, Krenov likes wooden planes, I like iron, and yet LN also makes 'em
out of bronze. Some love their sanders, I like to slide a nice antique
corrugated sole Stanley #4 up and down the board and let it be. It's pretty
obvious that there are many roads, though you can take but one at a time.
I'd like to try them all. Money may limit my options, but my mind never
will.

Time, of course will run out. Today I'll devote some of it to that hundred
pound cherry burl my neighbor dropped off yesterday.

charlie b wrote:

Charlie, are you by any chance a philosopher by trade?

Do you dabble in everything or immerse yourself totally in one area of
woodworking?

Being a good Baptist, I come down solidly on the side of total
immersion. No sprinklers here!

Chuck
You wrote
"Being a good Baptist, I come down solidly on the side of total
immersion. No sprinklers here!'

I was waiting for someone to chime in with that, being a Baptist pastor
myself. Personally, I tend to dabble at the side with various aspects of
wood working but immerse myself in the turning.

Speaking of immersion, we had a baptism outdoors on October 16. Here in Nova
Scotia that is genuine fall weather and the pond had come up a good foot
with the cold rain of two weeks previous. The fire from scraps of turnings,
not to mention a few mistakes, felt good afterward.


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Good post Charlie, and Greg's, Robert's
and George's responses would make interesting threads in themselves.

I don't like mangos, probably due to the lingering turpentine taste from
eating wild fruit years ago, but if mangos ornament rcw and make the ng
the better for them I'll try and eat some cultured ones. At least, I'll
make some chutney and turn some mate' cups from the hurricane kill.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I go for "immersion".

Whether it's whitewater canoeing, backpacking, motorcycles, archery,
sometimes my work, woodturning, etc.etc.etc. It just seems that whatever is
my interest is at this moment then it's my passion. Creates a depth of
appreciation for the "thing" that can't be achieved with a 'just visiting'
approach.

And, if I move on to other interests instead of staying with it all my life
(dabbling?), then that's fine because I've increased my experience base, my
store of memories, and my ability to bring those experiences to the next
"thing". This creates personal depth and might even develop wisdom.

It's a case of exploration in depth. Maybe achieving a level of 8 or 9 but
not spending your life in order to achieve a level of 10. General goal is to
be in the top 10% of anything. Beyond that the diminishing returns are
considered a poor investment of time, resources, energy.

Thank God not everyone feels this way. For the greatest advances have been
by the few who strive for the 10.1 level.

In the microcosm of woodturning specifically I intend to dabble and explore
bowl turning until a passion within that form starts. So, it's always dabble
with an open, adventurous mind; then immerse; dabble; then immerse; and so
on.

TomNie





"charlie b" wrote in message
...
When I was a kid, growing up In the tropics, Mango Season was a marker
of every year. We learned which Mango trees had the best mangoes and
developed an eye for when they were at their ripening best. We also came
up with ingenious methods for getting the particular mango we wanted off
that tree and into our salivating mouths. We'd cut long bamboo poles,
fashion a coat hanger "picker" and even adapted a butterfly net to our
contraptions in order the capture our mango and get it to us unbruised
by a fall.

But the BEST mangoes couldn't be reached from the ground, at least not
by a kid. Adults had devices that could probably do it, but we didn't
have access to those devices (oh to have had a cherry picker back
then). The alternative was to climb the tree and get the mango we
wanted - from inside. And thus we learned many things - to distinguish
between a branch that would support us and the ones that wouldn't
(critical when you're 30 or more feet off the ground), which side of the
tree the mangoes ripened first, where on the tree the best mangos could
usually be found, etc.. We also found tree climbing, even when there
were no mangoes on it, was fun all by itself.

Woodworking is a very broad term, and like a Mango tree, has many
branches (and roots). There are countless mangoes ultimately connecting
back to the woodworking trunk. Following any given branch presents many
forks in the path to a particular perfect mango. Some people follow one
branch to that mango, never doubling back to see where another branch at
the last fork might lead. Others want to explore ALL the main branches
and perhaps go out two or three forks before encountering the place on
the tree they're comfortable and satisfied with. They are content to
just imagine what that ripe mango out on the end of that branch would
taste like. Then there's the Curious George monkey, who wants to explore
the WHOLE tree, and dies trying, never finding The Perfect Mango, but
having touched, or tasted as many mangoes as possible.

If you stand back from the woodworking tree and study it a bit before
beginning to climb, you may be able to see the branch or even the mango
you want to get to. But you might not be able to see, or could
overlook, a branch or two or a few choice mangoes that would suit you
better.

So, after all that lead in, and to get back to the subject line, my
question is:

Do you think it's better to try many areas of woodworking and only then
pursue a particular path

or

Would it be better to read about, and perhaps observe a lot of different
types of woodworking and THEN select one or two to pursue seriously?

Or

Try them all and shoot for "adequate" in most of them?

Personally, I like to try a bit (and then some) of everything and if one
interests me, follow it 'til it requires more skill and/or abilities
than I'm willing to put out - OR - some other shiny thing catches my
eye.

Is turning your choice mango, or one of the many you enjoy?

Do you dabble in everything or immerse yourself totally in one area of
woodworking?

charlie b

Chuck
How is this for some carving? Rev Isaiah Wallace, who was on our Home
Mission Board back in the 1800's, was preaching revival meetings at a lumber
camp outside Meductic, New Brunswick. Twelve men desired to be baptized and
Rev Wallace agreed. This was in January when 20 degrees below 0 Celcius was
not uncommon. They cut a "baptismal grave" in the ice 6 feet long x 3 feet
wide and 3 feet deep. Steps were carved into one end. That must have been
some ice because they then had to wait while the water seaped in to fill the
"grave." Wallace stood in the water and baptized each of the twelve in turn.
No contest from me. Not only does it make the pond in October seem pretty
nice, but a heated baptistry could be heaven on earth.
Then a little wood turning to warm the soul.


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:39:58 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

For some reason, my ISP isn't picking up Google posts, including my
own!

"Being a good Baptist, I come down solidly on the side of total
immersion. No sprinklers here!'

I was waiting for someone to chime in with that, being a Baptist pastor
myself. Personally, I tend to dabble at the side with various aspects of
wood working but immerse myself in the turning.

I remembered that. That was partly for your benefit...figured you
could relate. : )

Speaking of immersion, we had a baptism outdoors on October 16. Here in Nova
Scotia that is genuine fall weather and the pond had come up a good foot
with the cold rain of two weeks previous. The fire from scraps of turnings,
not to mention a few mistakes, felt good afterward.

YoW-zaah! That sounds a might nippy! It's a wonder you don't lose
prospective dunkees to the Episcopalians if you do many in the "fall"
months. Well, since we had snow right around then, I can certainly
relate to the "fall" weather. Yesterday, though, it was in the
mid-60s and today...who knows, it might be snowing again before
nightfall.

I tend, however, to immerse myself in whatever I'm doing at the
moment, be it turning, leather work, silversmithing, stone carving,
you name it. I don't have the room for flatwork of any size, so tend
more to the disciplines that don't require much space.

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

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Chuck wrote:
charlie b wrote:

Charlie, are you by any chance a philosopher by trade?


Do you dabble in everything or immerse yourself totally in one area of
woodworking?


Being a good Baptist, I come down solidly on the side of total
immersion. No sprinklers here!


I suspect that he is a wayward engineer.


--
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
who have not got it.” George Bernard Shaw

Chuck wrote:

Charlie, are you by any chance a philosopher by trade?

and Will R guessed:

I suspect that he is a wayward engineer.


Well I was trained to be a Chemical Engineer, turned
out to be a long range transportation planner with
50,000+ hours playing with mainframes, then minis
trying to advise elected "decision makers" on big
land use and transportation facilities decisions.
(an acre of bare dirt in The Golden Triangle of
Silly Cone Valley goes for a million to a million
and a half (an acre is 43,560 square feet - that's
a square 212 x 212 feet) a typical freeway
interchange starts at 50-60 million, a freeway
lane goes for 1- 1.5 million a lane mile.

But I was born with one of those Left AND Right
Brain brains so I can add and subtract as well
as draw a straight line. A warped sense of humour
and an appreciation of the absurd developed over
time. Can't spell worth a damn though. Other than
that, humility is the only thing keeping me from
being perfect.

My main role in woodworking is to act as the
example of what NOT to do or to make others
who think they're the only one who's ever done
something dumb feel better. Even have an
OOPS! section on my woodworking site

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/OOPS/OOPS1.html

charlie b