Hi there,

Somebody told me that when wood is dried in the kiln dry oven and when
finished you take it out. It will not absorp moister from the atmospfeer?
So if I dry Mahogany until 8 or 9% moister and in a moister climate I take
it out the oven it stays 8 - 9%.
Is that correct?

Further more, they same person told me that furniture for Canada has to have
such a low moister level or else it will crack because of dry climate and
extreme differences between summer and winter in there. So furniture with a
14% moister level will crack in there?

Can anybody tell me more about this.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Albert

"Anti-Virus" wrote in message
...
Hi there,

Somebody told me that when wood is dried in the kiln dry oven and when
finished you take it out. It will not absorp moister from the atmospfeer?
So if I dry Mahogany until 8 or 9% moister and in a moister climate I take
it out the oven it stays 8 - 9%.
Is that correct?

Further more, they same person told me that furniture for Canada has to
have
such a low moister level or else it will crack because of dry climate and
extreme differences between summer and winter in there. So furniture with
a
14% moister level will crack in there?

Can anybody tell me more about this.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Albert

I am no expert on this Albert, but wood generally will assume the moisture
level of its surroundings. I believe it is called moisture equilibrium.
Even if it is finished, it will lose or gain moisture to achieve balance
with the ambient moisture content of the air. Wood in the north seesaws
more radically, IMHO, due to the alternate heating and cooling extremes and
the varying moisture in the air.

Leif

All woods absorb or loose moisture from their surroundings, some more
than others.
All wood movement is due to this property. Movement is mostly across
the grain, rather than along it.
This is the reason the floating panel was invented in europe some time
ago, so that panels over 8-10" wide would not crack. In frame and panel
construction, a panel is floating in a groove around the inside edge of
a rail and style frame.
Wether a particular piece of constructed wood will crack or not has
more to do with the joinery techniques, where the wood is prevented by
the joinery from expanding and contracting.
Of course, with the advent of engineered wood, such as plywood and
particle board, large solid panels are possible without allowing for
movement. Since with plywood and particle board the grain runs in
multiple directions, the size is relatively stable. Thus, veneer
covered ply has become popular for furniture with the home woodworker
where large panels are needed.

"Anti-Virus" wrote in message
...
Hi there,

Somebody told me that when wood is dried in the kiln dry oven and when
finished you take it out. It will not absorp moister from the atmospfeer?
So if I dry Mahogany until 8 or 9% moister and in a moister climate I take
it out the oven it stays 8 - 9%.
Is that correct?

Further more, they same person told me that furniture for Canada has to
have
such a low moister level or else it will crack because of dry climate and
extreme differences between summer and winter in there. So furniture with
a
14% moister level will crack in there?

Can anybody tell me more about this.

Gold mine of material here for free.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.htm

Your information will be in chapter three, where tables showing the
Equilibrium Moisture Content (EMC) of woods at a specific Relative Humidity
are located.

"Anti-Virus" wrote in message
...

Further more, they same person told me that furniture for Canada has to
have
such a low moister level or else it will crack because of dry climate and
extreme differences between summer and winter in there. So furniture with
a
14% moister level will crack in there?

Can anybody tell me more about this.
Yes that person is wrong on both counts. Wood will always stabilize to
the moisture level around it.
I live in Southern Ontario and here's an example. I built a solid pine
topped table 30 years ago. The top is 3 10 inch x 2 inch clear pine
boards that started out at 14% M.C. I put breadboard ends on the top
using a mortise and tenon pinned in the center of each end with a 3/8
inch diameter wood dowel. Our humidity varies between 100% in the summer
and 25% in winter with forced air central heating. Brutal!! The next
summer the breadboard ends were 3/8 inch short on each side of the table
for a total difference of 3/4 of an inch! The following winter they were
1/8 inch too long on each side for a total of a 1/4 inch. After 4 years
one of the ends fell off and to my amazement the 3/8 inch dowel was
sheared. This table has about 10 coats of hand rubbed oil base poly on
all surfaces. It is still moving summer to winter and now fluctuates
about 1/4 inch total. The ends are now held on with 3 dowels but the
holes in the tenon are slotted so they can move.
Wood moves and you must design accordingly. Don't trust hearsay but
instead research what the moisture fluctuation is like in the
environment the piece will be used in.

--
Remove no & spam to email

meet me at:
http://peterhyde.bravehost.com/

Thanks for all the help, it really helped me a lot.

Thanks,

Albert

"Anti-Virus" schreef in bericht
...
Hi there,

Somebody told me that when wood is dried in the kiln dry oven and when
finished you take it out. It will not absorp moister from the atmospfeer?
So if I dry Mahogany until 8 or 9% moister and in a moister climate I take
it out the oven it stays 8 - 9%.
Is that correct?

Further more, they same person told me that furniture for Canada has to
have
such a low moister level or else it will crack because of dry climate and
extreme differences between summer and winter in there. So furniture with
a
14% moister level will crack in there?

Can anybody tell me more about this.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Albert

I had a talk with the guy again, he seems to have 38 years experiance in
wooden antique clocks.
He tlod me that if you dry it until 6 - 8% moister, something happends to
the wood structior.
Inside the wood it will no longer become 14% by sucking up from the
atmospheer.
But the surface of the wood will still take some moister in but not the
entire thickness.

Anybody familiar with this?
Thanks.
Albert

In article ,
"Anti-Virus" wrote:

I had a talk with the guy again, he seems to have 38 years experiance in
wooden antique clocks.
He tlod me that if you dry it until 6 - 8% moister, something happends to
the wood structior.
Inside the wood it will no longer become 14% by sucking up from the
atmospheer.
But the surface of the wood will still take some moister in but not the
entire thickness.

Anybody familiar with this?

Albert, this line of thinking goes against all that I've ever read on
the subject. Frankly I've never heard such a thought before.

As I understand it, the wood will absolutely take on or give off
moisture to match the surrounding ambient humidity from the outer
surface all the way to the center. It may take a long time to "refill"
the center portion of kiln-dried stock from very low moisture content,
but given enough time in a higher humidity environment it'll reach
equilibrium eventually. A finish coat will slow that process down but
it's inevitable as far as I know.

One of the advantages of using drier than equilibrium MC for the planned
location is that joints would tighten after it's assembled - if assembly
occurs before the wood regains that is.

Do you have a specific question concerning the application of kiln-dried
vs. air stock? (too lazy to look up your original post)

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:10:44 +0200, "Anti-Virus"
wrote:


I had a talk with the guy again, he seems to have 38 years experiance in
wooden antique clocks.
He tlod me that if you dry it until 6 - 8% moister, something happends to
the wood structior.
Inside the wood it will no longer become 14% by sucking up from the
atmospheer.
But the surface of the wood will still take some moister in but not the
entire thickness.

Anybody familiar with this?

Hmmm, I'm thinking, "Entire woodworking world except for one guy
believes that any wood except maybe petrified wood will freely
exchange moisture with the atmosphere until it reaches
equilibrium...probably the one guy is operating on a combination of
good luck and 'Just-So' story he wrote himself." Not to belittle the
fellow at all, but it's not hard to pass along (or "discover" for
yourself") mis-information. I've worked with wood for over 30 years
and have never heard anything like that. What the heck, maybe _I'm_
wrong.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

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On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:10:44 +0200, Anti-Virus wrote:

I had a talk with the guy again, he seems to have 38 years experiance in
wooden antique clocks.
He tlod me that if you dry it until 6 - 8% moister, something happends to
the wood structior.
Inside the wood it will no longer become 14% by sucking up from the
atmospheer.
But the surface of the wood will still take some moister in but not the
entire thickness.

Anybody familiar with this?
Thanks.
Albert

(Going for the extreme example which illustrates a principle most
clearly.)

Is he saying that tossing the wood into the ocean won't result in the
inside of it eventually regaining moisture? Water is basically thick air
and serves as an extreme example of ambient humidity.

I do not want to cut the guy down, but I'd like to hear from him
what this 'something' that happens to the wood structure is.

Bill

"Owen Lowe" schreef in bericht
news
In article ,
"Anti-Virus" wrote:

I had a talk with the guy again, he seems to have 38 years experiance in
wooden antique clocks.
He tlod me that if you dry it until 6 - 8% moister, something happends
to
the wood structior.
Inside the wood it will no longer become 14% by sucking up from the
atmospheer.
But the surface of the wood will still take some moister in but not the
entire thickness.

Anybody familiar with this?

Albert, this line of thinking goes against all that I've ever read on the
subject. Frankly I've never heard such a thought before.

As I understand it, the wood will absolutely take on or give off moisture
to match the surrounding ambient humidity from the outer
surface all the way to the center. It may take a long time to "refill" the
center portion of kiln-dried stock from very low moisture content,
but given enough time in a higher humidity environment it'll reach
equilibrium eventually. A finish coat will slow that process down but
it's inevitable as far as I know.

One of the advantages of using drier than equilibrium MC for the planned
location is that joints would tighten after it's assembled - if assembly
occurs before the wood regains that is.

Do you have a specific question concerning the application of kiln-dried
vs. air stock? (too lazy to look up your original post)

The original subject was timber (Mahogany) dried until 14%, then made
furniture of it.
After arrival in Canada because of extreme differences between winter &
Summer, it will crack. But also absorb a lot of moister.
But when you dry it 6-8%, it will not crack and only the surface will take
up some moister.
Maybe he also means if you change timer quickly into furniture and finish
it, it will not extend much.
Although you never finish the furniture for 100%. The inside of let say a
partner desk you only finish the parts you see.
So from all your comment I still do not understand what this guy is saying.
Anyway maybe continuing story.

Thanks for all the comment.