Typical Sunday night saga!

I have a Potterton Profile boiler situated
in my garage which provides heat for my
CH and HW (Gravity fed).

I have tinkered many times with my CH/HW
system adding and replacing parts etc and
have always managed to get her fired up with
no hassles.

This time she just hums (fan presumably) but
no pilot light nor fire-up occurs!

Gas, power, demand and water is there (at least
I'm sure that water is there because the pump in
the airing cupboard sounds like it's pumping water)
and, in fact I never shut the system down... I just
turned the programmer to "off" the other day
as it was hot and I didn't want it kicking in come
the morning!

The model is either a 30e, 40e, 50e, 60e or 80e
the manual covers all and I can't be arsed to go
down while writing this
I'm starting to be convinced that something has
gone in the boiler itself such as the Overheat
thermostat and was wondering if anyone here
can offer up some suggestions before I call in
am engineer?

I've tried the manual reset button but that hasn't
had any effect although it doesn't seem to have
a satisfying click to the button when pushed...
should it?

Appreciate any pointers.

cheers
deano.

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 11:16:41 -0700, Dean Heighington wrote:

Typical Sunday night saga!

I have a Potterton Profile boiler situated
in my garage which provides heat for my
CH and HW (Gravity fed).

I have tinkered many times with my CH/HW
system adding and replacing parts etc and
have always managed to get her fired up with
no hassles.

This time she just hums (fan presumably) but
no pilot light nor fire-up occurs!

Gas, power, demand and water is there (at least
I'm sure that water is there because the pump in
the airing cupboard sounds like it's pumping water)
and, in fact I never shut the system down... I just
turned the programmer to "off" the other day
as it was hot and I didn't want it kicking in come
the morning!

The model is either a 30e, 40e, 50e, 60e or 80e
the manual covers all and I can't be arsed to go
down while writing this
I'm starting to be convinced that something has
gone in the boiler itself such as the Overheat
thermostat and was wondering if anyone here
can offer up some suggestions before I call in
am engineer?

I've tried the manual reset button but that hasn't
had any effect although it doesn't seem to have
a satisfying click to the button when pushed...
should it?

The reset button, I beleive will only go in with a click when it has
previously popped out. I'm not sure but I think the fan would also be dead in
that case aswell.

When the fan has run for a few seconds the APS should flick over to start
the rest of the ignition switch.

The chances are that this switch has failed, or its supply tube inlets are
blocked.

The manual is downloadable (I would expect) and that should help you to
track down the fault.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message news:

The reset button, I beleive will only go in with a click when it has
previously popped out. I'm not sure but I think the fan would also be dead in
that case aswell.

When the fan has run for a few seconds the APS should flick over to start
the rest of the ignition switch.

The chances are that this switch has failed, or its supply tube inlets are
blocked.

The manual is downloadable (I would expect) and that should help you to
track down the fault.

Hi Ed.

When I turn the Thermostat knob to off and then back on again,
the humming (fan) starts immediately and then there is an
audible click... this is the point where previously, the next sound
was the pilot light click and then the roar of the burners. Now,
I only seem to get the initial click after the fan hum!

Could this be blocked jets? The heating has been off for a while
because of the Summer heat!

With regards the downloadable manual, is there somewhere you
know that I can get this? I have tried the Potterton website and
they only seem to have the "User's Guide" which I already have!

Thanks for your help.

Dean.

I've tried the manual reset button but that hasn't
had any effect although it doesn't seem to have
a satisfying click to the button when pushed...
should it?

Appreciate any pointers.

cheers
deano.

Does the fan stay on permanently, or does it cycle on/off?

I had a problem with my Potterton Profile, the fan would kick in, it would
click, then just after the point it would normally light, the fan would go
off, it would wait a couple of seconds, then repeat until it was turned off.
It turned out to be the control board (well, something on it anyway!)

I replaced the board, and we had heat!

Before I replaced the board, I found sharply banging the bottom of the plate
the board was mounted on *** just when it should be lighting "fixed" it -
but this needed to be done every time it wanted to light!

***This board does carry mains voltage, so be careful if tinkering with it
all switched on!***

Sparks...

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:16:07 +0100, Sparks wrote:



I've tried the manual reset button but that hasn't
had any effect although it doesn't seem to have
a satisfying click to the button when pushed...
should it?

Appreciate any pointers.

cheers
deano.

Does the fan stay on permanently, or does it cycle on/off?

I had a problem with my Potterton Profile, the fan would kick in, it would
click, then just after the point it would normally light, the fan would go
off, it would wait a couple of seconds, then repeat until it was turned off.
It turned out to be the control board (well, something on it anyway!)

I replaced the board, and we had heat!

Before I replaced the board, I found sharply banging the bottom of the plate
the board was mounted on *** just when it should be lighting "fixed" it -
but this needed to be done every time it wanted to light!

***This board does carry mains voltage, so be careful if tinkering with it
all switched on!***

Sparks...

This is because the relay does not swich over in response to the APS.
Hitting it might just give it the help it needs. The OP would have
mentioned the on-off-on-off cycling as its so distictive.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 02:00:14 -0700, Dean Heighington wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message news:

The reset button, I beleive will only go in with a click when it has
previously popped out. I'm not sure but I think the fan would also be dead in
that case aswell.

When the fan has run for a few seconds the APS should flick over to start
the rest of the ignition switch.

The chances are that this switch has failed, or its supply tube inlets are
blocked.

The manual is downloadable (I would expect) and that should help you to
track down the fault.

Hi Ed.

When I turn the Thermostat knob to off and then back on again,
the humming (fan) starts immediately and then there is an
audible click... this is the point where previously, the next sound
was the pilot light click and then the roar of the burners. Now,
I only seem to get the initial click after the fan hum!

Could this be blocked jets? The heating has been off for a while
because of the Summer heat!

With regards the downloadable manual, is there somewhere you
know that I can get this? I have tried the Potterton website and
they only seem to have the "User's Guide" which I already have!

Thanks for your help.



The manual is on their web site (it is for the 40eL and 80eL models but
these are essentially identical to any of the profile range).

It includes a fault fininding flow chart (p32) but it is better to know how the
sequence works and identify the problem yourself.

Profiles have a two stage ignition.
First a small pilot jet is opened (after the fan is proved OK by the APS)
This is ignited with a series of sparks.
Upon satisfcatory flame detection the main gas valve is opened.

Sounds like the fan and APS are doing the stuff.
So are there any sparks? NO - ivestigate spark problems. YES investigate
gas/ignition problems.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In message .uk, Ed
Sirett writes
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:16:07 +0100, Sparks wrote:



I've tried the manual reset button but that hasn't
had any effect although it doesn't seem to have
a satisfying click to the button when pushed...
should it?

Appreciate any pointers.

cheers
deano.

Does the fan stay on permanently, or does it cycle on/off?

I had a problem with my Potterton Profile, the fan would kick in, it would
click, then just after the point it would normally light, the fan would go
off, it would wait a couple of seconds, then repeat until it was turned off.
It turned out to be the control board (well, something on it anyway!)

I replaced the board, and we had heat!

Before I replaced the board, I found sharply banging the bottom of the plate
the board was mounted on *** just when it should be lighting "fixed" it -
but this needed to be done every time it wanted to light!

***This board does carry mains voltage, so be careful if tinkering with it
all switched on!***

Sparks...

This is because the relay does not swich over in response to the APS.
Hitting it might just give it the help it needs. The OP would have
mentioned the on-off-on-off cycling as its so distictive.

It's normally due to a capacitor drying out, or a zener diode failing

It can only get worse once it starts happening

"If in doubt, give it a clout" technology isn't really applicable here

Of course, it could also be an APS failure

(Back after a hard drive crash)

--
geoff

In message , Dean
Heighington writes
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message news:

The reset button, I beleive will only go in with a click when it has
previously popped out. I'm not sure but I think the fan would also be dead in
that case aswell.

When the fan has run for a few seconds the APS should flick over to start
the rest of the ignition switch.

The chances are that this switch has failed, or its supply tube inlets are
blocked.

The manual is downloadable (I would expect) and that should help you to
track down the fault.

Hi Ed.

When I turn the Thermostat knob to off and then back on again,
the humming (fan) starts immediately and then there is an
audible click... this is the point where previously, the next sound
was the pilot light click and then the roar of the burners. Now,
I only seem to get the initial click after the fan hum!

When you say fan hum, is it actually turning?

Fans usually "hum" when the part which holds the bearing in place
breaks.

However ....

The click sounds like the APS is actually changing over

which would indicate that the fan is working

Ring me tomorrow on 01923 229224, I'll see if I can home in on the
problem


Could this be blocked jets? The heating has been off for a while
because of the Summer heat!

Can you hear the spark trying to ignite the pilot ?

a repeated click at about 1 / second


With regards the downloadable manual, is there somewhere you
know that I can get this? I have tried the Potterton website and
they only seem to have the "User's Guide" which I already have!

Thanks for your help.

Dean.

--
geoff

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message news:
I've tried the manual reset button but that hasn't
had any effect although it doesn't seem to have
a satisfying click to the button when pushed...
should it?

The reset button, I beleive will only go in with a click when it has
previously popped out. I'm not sure but I think the fan would also be dead in
that case aswell.

When the fan has run for a few seconds the APS should flick over to start
the rest of the ignition switch.

The chances are that this switch has failed, or its supply tube inlets are
blocked.

The manual is downloadable (I would expect) and that should help you to
track down the fault.

Thanks Ed
I'll get the manual next free period and have a study.
Will probably be back here at some stage to confirm
fault identification or with more questions.

raden wrote in message ...
Fans usually "hum" when the part which holds the bearing in place
breaks.

However ....

The click sounds like the APS is actually changing over

which would indicate that the fan is working

Ring me tomorrow on 01923 229224, I'll see if I can home in on the
problem

Geoff (?)
Have only just seen your reply [sorry - hectic schedule of
work/life balance ]
When I next get some free time, this will be my subject of
study, I'll get hold of the profile manual and if I can't fathom
this myself, would it be OK to still call you for some assistance?

Many thanks,

Dean.

In message , Dean
Heighington writes
raden wrote in message
...
Fans usually "hum" when the part which holds the bearing in place
breaks.

However ....

The click sounds like the APS is actually changing over

which would indicate that the fan is working

Ring me tomorrow on 01923 229224, I'll see if I can home in on the
problem

Geoff (?)
Have only just seen your reply [sorry - hectic schedule of
work/life balance ]
When I next get some free time, this will be my subject of
study, I'll get hold of the profile manual and if I can't fathom
this myself, would it be OK to still call you for some assistance?

Of course
--
geoff

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message news:
This is because the relay does not swich over in response to the APS.

APS?
Automatic Protection System (Switch) ??

d.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message news:
This is because the relay does not swich over in response to the APS.

APS?
Automatic Protection System (Switch) ??

d.

raden wrote in message ...

When you say fan hum, is it actually turning?

Fans usually "hum" when the part which holds the bearing in place
breaks.

You got it right first time!
The fan was humming, but not spinning.
I removed the front panel which made this obvious
and so I took the fan out and connected it to a flex
with a 3amp plug and switched this on... the fan spun
for about 5 seconds and then seized up and made
the humming I'd heard earlier.

A quick trip to my local Plumb Center (and £102+VAT
later - which I did think was extortionate - but worth it
due to convenience) and the problem is solved!

Thanks for all the help from all who posted here.

Dean.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:41:48 -0700, Dean Heighington wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message news:
This is because the relay does not swich over in response to the APS.

APS?
Automatic Protection System (Switch) ??

No: Air Pressure Switch.

It is a simple differential pressure switch (usually and in this case a
changeover microswitch). The differential pressure is caused by the correct
operation of the fan. It is operated by pressures in the order of a few millibars.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In message , Dean
Heighington writes
raden wrote in message
...

When you say fan hum, is it actually turning?

Fans usually "hum" when the part which holds the bearing in place
breaks.

You got it right first time!
The fan was humming, but not spinning.
I removed the front panel which made this obvious
and so I took the fan out and connected it to a flex
with a 3amp plug and switched this on... the fan spun
for about 5 seconds and then seized up and made
the humming I'd heard earlier.

A quick trip to my local Plumb Center (and £102+VAT
later - which I did think was extortionate - but worth it
due to convenience) and the problem is solved!

Next time look at my website

www.cetltd.com

--
geoff

In message , Dean
Heighington writes
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message news:
This is because the relay does not swich over in response to the APS.

APS?
Automatic Protection System (Switch) ??

Air Pressure Switch
--
geoff

replying to Dean Heighington, Visitor wrote:
You got it right first time!

Hi. I have the identical problem. When I took off the front cover off, the
fan show no life at all. I did what you did, took fan off and connected to
some flex with 3amp fuse. Nothing happened. Have I the same problem that
its the fan? Grateful for your response.


--

In article s.com,
Visitor scribeth thus
replying to Dean Heighington, Visitor wrote:
You got it right first time!

Hi. I have the identical problem. When I took off the front cover off, the
fan show no life at all. I did what you did, took fan off and connected to
some flex with 3amp fuse. Nothing happened. Have I the same problem that
its the fan? Grateful for your response.



If all else fails then give Geoff a call...


http://www.cetltd.com/
--
Tony Sayer