Doctor Evil wrote:

A CU is deemed to be outside the scope of DIY. It is very much an involved

"Deemed" by who?

aspect and demands careful work. Everyone knows you don't have trailing
leads and sockets should be in appropriate places. If outside DIY then you
get the pro in and pay.

There is in reality very little "outside of DIY" given the range of
skills and level of knowledge of some DIYers.

Following your logic, a professional sparks would be "deemed" unable to
change his own CU on the grounds that the membership to the appropriate
guild would belong to his employer and not him - hence he is suddenly
deemed not competent to do a job he was competent to do yesterday, and
will be again tommorow.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Evil wrote:

In principle from a holistic view, Part P is right. The nitty gritty aspects
is all subjective. Once DIYers know what they can and can't do, and get
around some aspects, all will settle down.

Your entire rational for making that statement seems to be driven by two
things:

1) Is is a view contrary to pretty well all the other posters on this
ng, and hence affords you the greatest opportunity to argue. Which we
know you enjoy.

2) Given your stated undying love and affection for Blair, Prescott et
al, you feel you must remain "on message". Perhaps you also have a
Milbank controlled pager.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

In principle from a holistic view, Part P is right. The nitty gritty
aspects
is all subjective. Once DIYers know what they can and can't do, and get
around some aspects, all will settle down.

Your entire rational for making that statement seems to be driven by two
things:

1) Is is a view contrary to pretty well all the other posters on this
ng, and hence affords you the greatest opportunity to argue. Which we
know you enjoy.



ah.

"Never wrestle with a pig - you both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it".

or even

"Never argue with an idiot - he'll beat you down to his level and then win
on experience"


--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:35:58 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Doctor Evil wrote:

In principle from a holistic view, Part P is right. The nitty gritty aspects
is all subjective. Once DIYers know what they can and can't do, and get
around some aspects, all will settle down.

Your entire rational for making that statement seems to be driven by two
things:

1) Is is a view contrary to pretty well all the other posters on this
ng, and hence affords you the greatest opportunity to argue. Which we
know you enjoy.

2) Given your stated undying love and affection for Blair, Prescott et
al, you feel you must remain "on message". Perhaps you also have a
Milbank controlled pager.


..... attached to his 'testatikas'......



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:35:58 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Doctor Evil wrote:

In principle from a holistic view, Part P is right. The nitty gritty aspects
is all subjective. Once DIYers know what they can and can't do, and get
around some aspects, all will settle down.

Your entire rational for making that statement seems to be driven by two
things:

1) Is is a view contrary to pretty well all the other posters on this
ng, and hence affords you the greatest opportunity to argue. Which we
know you enjoy.

2) Given your stated undying love and affection for Blair, Prescott et
al, you feel you must remain "on message". Perhaps you also have a
Milbank controlled pager.

3) Liking to put down the abilities of others and assuming a least
common denominator of what they want to do.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

RichardS wrote:

"Never wrestle with a pig - you both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it".

Or the alternative, "Never try to to teach a pig to sing, it will only
upset the pig and frustrate you"

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:13:53 +0100, Tony Bryer wrote:


SNIP

Privately owned dwellings may go uninspected from decade to decade.

Yup. One of my questions when doing a "Landlords'" is "Is this the first
time you are letting the property?". Because if it is then there is
likely to be quite a few things that will need doing to brings things up
to standard.


I don't even dare do that Ed - if its a landlords and a "new" one on my
books I use a fine tooth comb. Only if its one of my previous jobs can I
hope to not have additional work in rectifying things.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:08:24 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


The aim of Part P is to keep cowboys out. It is geared for the pro to do
the work,

Under Part P a skilled and experienced professional industrial
electrician cannot move a light fitting in his kitchen. A commercial
electrician working every day on shop and office installations cannot
put an extra ring main in his house.

A college lecturer with many years of both industrial and commercial
electrical experience cannot now move a socket in his kitchen.
However, one of his first year part time students, employed by an
NICEIC company, who has neither experience nor knowledge is perfectly
entitled to do the work and self certify it as competently done.

How exactly does this raise standards?

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

In article .uk, Ed
Sirett wrote:
Yup. One of my questions when doing a "Landlords'" is "Is this the first
time you are letting the property?". Because if it is then there is
likely to be quite a few things that will need doing to brings things up
to standard.

As in not good enough or as in potentially dangerous?

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:04:21 +0000, John wrote:


"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:13:53 +0100, Tony Bryer wrote:


SNIP

Privately owned dwellings may go uninspected from decade to decade.

Yup. One of my questions when doing a "Landlords'" is "Is this the first
time you are letting the property?". Because if it is then there is
likely to be quite a few things that will need doing to brings things up
to standard.


I don't even dare do that Ed - if its a landlords and a "new" one on my
books I use a fine tooth comb. Only if its one of my previous jobs can I
hope to not have additional work in rectifying things.

I think we are saying the same thing.
I should add that the next sentence is "Quite a few things may take
a lot to put right."


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:31:16 +0100, Tony Bryer wrote:

In article .uk, Ed
Sirett wrote:
Yup. One of my questions when doing a "Landlords'" is "Is this the first
time you are letting the property?". Because if it is then there is
likely to be quite a few things that will need doing to brings things up
to standard.

As in not good enough or as in potentially dangerous?

There is a spectrum of faults which are bundled into "Immediately
Dangerous" which implies a fail for that appliance or even the entire
installation. "At Risk" and "Not to current standards" are less serious
but most landlords would want to see these items fixed because
a) If anything goes wrong it's down to them - and there would be severe
penalties involved.
b) An observant tenant might reasonably complain about the items
on the 'ticket' and cause trouble.

I generally don't do work for the 'Rachmans' but if I had trouble then I
would probably only get a result by upping the seriousness to 'ID'.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 17:10:04 +0100, Peter Parry wrote:

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:08:24 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


The aim of Part P is to keep cowboys out. It is geared for the pro to do
the work,

Under Part P a skilled and experienced professional industrial
electrician cannot move a light fitting in his kitchen. A commercial
electrician working every day on shop and office installations cannot
put an extra ring main in his house.

A college lecturer with many years of both industrial and commercial
electrical experience cannot now move a socket in his kitchen.
However, one of his first year part time students, employed by an
NICEIC company, who has neither experience nor knowledge is perfectly
entitled to do the work and self certify it as competently done.

How exactly does this raise standards?

I think you have just about summed up the entire problem. The net effect
of this legislation will be the opposite of the original intention.
I wonder just how big the 'under the counter' market for electrical work
is going to be?



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Andy Hall wrote:

They most certainly can't claim that they didn't know. They most
certainly did.



It's a total shambles and Prescott should resign. Actually he should
resign anyway.


Why? Has he been at somebody else's wife? Seems to be almost the only
reason these days! Incompetence in government is now the norm for all
parties.

Regards
Capitol

Bob Eager wrote:
No. It's to make sure no work is done without taxes etc. being paid.

You jest? What are taxes? Think how effective mobile phone and asbo
legislation has been!

Regards
Capitol

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
You are still missing the point, Part P is un-enforceable, it will not
stop the 'cowboy' builder / DIYer,

Or the householder saying, "Fred, will you please put some new points
in my kitchen for cash?"

It ain't gonna work!!

Regards
Capitol

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:33:22 UTC, Capitol
wrote:



Bob Eager wrote:
No. It's to make sure no work is done without taxes etc. being paid.

You jest? What are taxes? Think how effective mobile phone and asbo
legislation has been!

I didn't say it was effective. It was however part of the agenda. Look
back in this group a few months...

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

RichardS wrote:

"Never wrestle with a pig - you both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it".

or even

"Never argue with an idiot - he'll beat you down to his level and then win
on experience"


Do not teach pig to sing, it is useless and annoys pig.

--
David Clark

$message_body_include ="PLES RING IF AN RNSR IS REQIRD"

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 21:43:33 +0100, Capitol wrote:



:::Jerry:::: wrote:
You are still missing the point, Part P is un-enforceable, it will not
stop the 'cowboy' builder / DIYer,

Or the householder saying, "Fred, will you please put some new points
in my kitchen for cash?"

It ain't gonna work!!

Regar

Example: A while ago if you need a new number plate for your vehicle (say
the old one got cracked and fell off). You went to a shop/garage and said
make me a plate.

Now you need to go along with proof off identity, proof of address and the
V5. Then you can have your number plate, after filling in various forms.

If you are the late Mr. R Cray you go along and say "Make me a couple of
plates any number you choose." and will get the reply "Yes sir!"

The net effect of the above, Part P and all the rest of it is this. It
makes the good guys do more paper work it has no effect whatever on the
bad guys.

In a similar vein CORGI offer their members a simple and cheap way of
notifying (and self-certifying) replacment heat producing
appliances to the LA (Part J & L) . They will be carrying out random
inspections (with the owners permission and an opportunity for the
installer to be present) on a small sample of these jobs.
Now that will keep the professionals honest for sure, but the cowboys
won't appear on the radar!


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:56:16 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
"Doctor Evil" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

The council do not check, they get someone else to check and charge you the
cost of the submission and the check. The councils had adequate warning of
what was to happen and 99% of them did nothing. So, it is best to have a
self certified electrician to check it out and sign it off.

It was expected that a lot more electricians would become members of
the various trade bodies and certification schemes so that there would
be not as much need for Building Control to become involved. The
regulations and the self-certification scheme were also being written
and re-written right up to the date of implementation; indeed,
amendments to the guidance were issued on the first working day of the
new year, the day after it came into force.

Councils have been told (off) by the ODPM that they are not allowed to
vary the charge whether or not the work involves notifiable electrical
work.
--
Hugo Nebula
'What you have to ask yourself is,"if no-one on the internet wants
a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"'

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:05:56 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named Andy
Hall randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

The contractor needs to have done the work in order to self certify
it. How can he do that legally if part was not done by him?

That's more to do with NICEIC's rules than anything contained in the
Approved Document.

The legislation is poorly drafted as a result of government
incompetence and doesn't have the latitude that is in comparable
legislation relating to other areas of building regulation.

To be fair, the legislation itself is reasonably clear and
straightforward; all work should comply with BS7671, and there are a
number of locations and types of installations where that work is
'notifiable'. It's the confusion surrounding the self-certification
schemes and who is and isn't a 'competent person' that's causing most
of the problems.
--
Hugo Nebula
'What you have to ask yourself is,"if no-one on the internet wants
a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"'

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 00:55:33 +0100, Hugo Nebula
wrote:

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:05:56 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named Andy
Hall randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

The contractor needs to have done the work in order to self certify
it. How can he do that legally if part was not done by him?

That's more to do with NICEIC's rules than anything contained in the
Approved Document.

What about the Approved Document paragraph 0.8 though?

***************

0.8 It is not necessary to give prior
notification of proposals to carry out electrical
installation work to building control bodies in
the following circumstances:

a. The proposed installation work is
undertaken by a person2 who is a
competent person registered with an
electrical self-certification scheme
authorised by the Secretary of State.
In these cases the person is
responsible for ensuring compliance
with BS 7671: 2001 and all relevant
Building Regulations. On completion
of the work, the person ordering the
work should receive a signed Building
Regulations self-certification
certificate, and the relevant building
control body should receive a copy of
the information on the certificate. The
person ordering the work should also
receive a duly completed Electrical
Installation Certificate as or similar to
the model in BS 76713 (see
paragraphs 1.6 to 1.12). As required
by BS 7671, the certificate must be
made out and signed by the
competent person or persons who
carried out the design, construction,
inspection and testing work. Copies
of relevant BS 7671: 2001 model
forms are shown in Appendix B.

****************

The pieces I note from this a

"The proposed installation work is undertaken by a person who is a
competent person registered with an electrical self-certification
scheme.... "

"As required by BS7671, the certificate must be made out and signed by
the competent person or persons who carried out the design,
construction, inspection and testing work"


In other words, to meet the self certification criteria, *all* aspects
of the work have to be done by a competent person or persons. It
doesn't say that a non approved person can do one bit and a competent
person can do another, unless I'm missing something.








The legislation is poorly drafted as a result of government
incompetence and doesn't have the latitude that is in comparable
legislation relating to other areas of building regulation.

To be fair, the legislation itself is reasonably clear and
straightforward; all work should comply with BS7671, and there are a
number of locations and types of installations where that work is
'notifiable'. It's the confusion surrounding the self-certification
schemes and who is and isn't a 'competent person' that's causing most
of the problems.


.... and passing the policing of self certification to commercially
interested organisations....



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

The pieces I note from this a
[...]
In other words, to meet the self certification criteria, *all* aspects
of the work have to be done by a competent person or persons. It
doesn't say that a non approved person can do one bit and a competent
person can do another, unless I'm missing something.

But does "person" here mean a 'proper person' (== a human being) or a
'legal person' (== a human being OR a body corporate)? If the latter
you can have untrained vandals doing the actual work (supposedly) under
the supervision of one competent proper person. The rest should need no
further explanation...

--
Andy

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 09:18:55 +0100, Andy Wade
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

The pieces I note from this a
[...]
In other words, to meet the self certification criteria, *all* aspects
of the work have to be done by a competent person or persons. It
doesn't say that a non approved person can do one bit and a competent
person can do another, unless I'm missing something.

But does "person" here mean a 'proper person' (== a human being) or a
'legal person' (== a human being OR a body corporate)? If the latter
you can have untrained vandals doing the actual work (supposedly) under
the supervision of one competent proper person. The rest should need no
further explanation...

It's another case of incompetent drafting as far as I can see.

If you search through the Approved Document, the word "competent" is
always associated with "person" as "competent person" apart from a
couple of places at the end where "competent electrician" is used.

In this, the terms "competent person" and "competent person self
certification scheme" have a very particular meaning i.e. competent
person being defined as member of a competent person self
certification scheme".

Normally in a legal document such as a contract, such a description is
capitalised to avoid ambiguity.

In the Statutory Instruments relating to Part P and the Approved
Document and follow on documents , they have used the term "competent
person" and associated it with "competent person self-certification
scheme. They haven't used "competent" in any other way.

They should probably have capitalised the words and said "Competent
Person or Persons" or even "Competent Person or Competent Persons" to
avoid ambiguity. However, there is nothing to suggest that anything
else was meant.

Who knows whether either would stand up in a court of law.....

Perhaps it should be a requirement the government ministers be
Competent Persons. However, I haven't met many who are.






--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:13:53 +0100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

No deterrent at all IMO. No doubt you could use the Freedom of
Information Act to find out how many people have been prosecuted for
failure to comply with Building Regulations - my guess would be that
it is a few hundred a year at most. Has anyone been prosecuted for a
DIY window replacement since 2002 - my Wickes has plenty of windows
and I doubt whether more than a few of those bought are installed
following a notification to the LA.

As I'm now past the deadline for prosecution I'll confess to having done
just this. Just as with Part P and the general population, it never
occured to me that I needed to *tell* anyone that I was taking out a
nasty set of sliding patio doors that tended to fall off the runners and
nearly kill people and replacing them with a set of opening ones that
didn't. So I just did it.
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

Andy Hall wrote:

If the project
started or "started" before the end of 2004, then you can
legitimately, or according to your conscience say no because part P
didn't apply on commencement.

I think that Wickes may still have some of their 100m drums of 2.5 T+E
cable that is date stamped '2004'. Something that might persuade an
inspection that the work started in 2004.

I expect you'd have a harder job if the cable is dated stamped 2005!

All my kitchen wiring is either undated or 2004 vintage. I have simply
updated the sockets ;-)

My local wholesaler has said that they can get me 2004 armoured cable in
the pre-harmonisation colours for the end of garden woodstore light.
Very accomodating.

Richard


--
Real email address is RJSavage at BIGFOOT dot COM

The information contained in this post
may not be published in, or used by

http://www.diyprojects.info

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Appears so. As long as you don't switch on the power and the tester
does that then you can do what the hell you like anywhere. If there is
parts that need inspecting, but you have tiled over, take a digital
photo of the work with time stamp.


You're making things up.

Where is the basis for that suggestion in the legislation or the
published guidelines?

John obviously doesn't know how to set the date on his camera either. So
assumes others wouldn't know how to alter it to anything they wanted it to
read.

--
*Tell me to 'stuff it' - I'm a taxidermist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ed Sirett wrote in message on.co.uk...
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 21:43:33 +0100, Capitol wrote:



:::Jerry:::: wrote:
You are still missing the point, Part P is un-enforceable, it will not
stop the 'cowboy' builder / DIYer,

Or the householder saying, "Fred, will you please put some new points
in my kitchen for cash?"

It ain't gonna work!!

Regar

Example: A while ago if you need a new number plate for your vehicle (say
the old one got cracked and fell off). You went to a shop/garage and said
make me a plate.

Now you need to go along with proof off identity, proof of address and the
V5. Then you can have your number plate, after filling in various forms.

If you are the late Mr. R Cray you go along and say "Make me a couple of
plates any number you choose." and will get the reply "Yes sir!"

or take it for an MOT and the station will order one for you with no
paperwork or get the stick on bits and make it yourself.......
HTH Phil

Ed Sirett wrote in message on.co.uk...
Example: A while ago if you need a new number plate for your vehicle (say
the old one got cracked and fell off). You went to a shop/garage and said
make me a plate.

Now you need to go along with proof off identity, proof of address and the
V5. Then you can have your number plate, after filling in various forms.

Trouble is most car accessory shops found it wasn't worth the
effort and chucked in making number plates. Someone at work
needed one for a trailer, and was advised by a couple of the
shops to order it from France or Belgium (I don't recall which
country it was), which is apparently what many people tend to
do now.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Appears so. As long as you don't switch on the power and the tester
does that then you can do what the hell you like anywhere. If there is
parts that need inspecting, but you have tiled over, take a digital
photo of the work with time stamp.

You're making things up.

Where is the basis for that suggestion in the legislation or the
published guidelines?

....our intergalactic cabering space cadet....thinks yet again....

John obviously doesn't know how
to set the date on his camera either. So
assumes others wouldn't know how to
alter it to anything they wanted it to
read.

.........yes he said that...he did....most people would never say such
things....but most are not cabering space cadets......Do his cabers have
time stamps?..............



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Trouble is most car accessory shops found it wasn't worth the
effort and chucked in making number plates. Someone at work
needed one for a trailer, and was advised by a couple of the
shops to order it from France or Belgium (I don't recall which
country it was), which is apparently what many people tend to
do now.


IIRC Scotland and NI can supply what you want by mail order!

Regards
Capitol

In message , Capitol
writes


Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Trouble is most car accessory shops found it wasn't worth the
effort and chucked in making number plates. Someone at work
needed one for a trailer, and was advised by a couple of the
shops to order it from France or Belgium (I don't recall which
country it was), which is apparently what many people tend to
do now.


IIRC Scotland and NI can supply what you want by mail order!

I know a place nearby where I can get plates made up no probs.

A couple of months ago I crunched an MG's front number plate with my tow
bar. I got a replacement without any documentation for him
--
geoff

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 00:45:19 +0100, Hugo Nebula wrote:



Councils have been told (off) by the ODPM that they are not allowed to
vary the charge whether or not the work involves notifiable electrical
work.

I bow to you superior knowledge in this matter. I was told by one of the
councils there would be additional charges, but I see they were simply
conning me.

If that is the case then this changes the whole situation. I
think the idea that you could get all you work (up to a full rewire of a
small house) inspected and certified for £117.50 would be quite popular
with many pros who do electrics as part of their day to day activities.

Indeed Part P would become totally unworkable as the BCO became inundated.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In article ,
raden wrote:
IIRC Scotland and NI can supply what you want by mail order!

I know a place nearby where I can get plates made up no probs.

A couple of months ago I crunched an MG's front number plate with my tow
bar. I got a replacement without any documentation for him

My old SD1 front plate got crunched by my next door neighbour. He was very
sorry ;-) and offered to pay. Went down to the local Halfords and they
made a new one which I paid for in cash - no questions asked.

--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Evil wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

This is exactly like the six stages of a project:

1 - Enthusiasm
2 - Disillusionment
3 - Panic
4 - Hunt the guilty
5 - Blame the innocent
6 - Reward for those who had nothing to do with it

Lord Hall, I have ran many projects and never had any of those 6
above.

That thought would scare me.

All on time and on budget.

Unusual for building projects to have 6 in a row ontime and on budget.
And when people like yourself are involved it is a miracle if one per
lifetime comes in on time and on budget.

Every time you make these claims you unwittingly tell us just how much
drevil you talk. Another one for the drevil drivel thread.


NT

In message .com,
writes
Doctor Evil wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

This is exactly like the six stages of a project:

1 - Enthusiasm
2 - Disillusionment
3 - Panic
4 - Hunt the guilty
5 - Blame the innocent
6 - Reward for those who had nothing to do with it

Lord Hall, I have ran many projects and never had any of those 6
above.

That thought would scare me.

All on time and on budget.

Unusual for building projects to have 6 in a row ontime and on budget.
And when people like yourself are involved it is a miracle if one per
lifetime comes in on time and on budget.

Every time you make these claims you unwittingly tell us just how much
drevil you talk. Another one for the drevil drivel thread.

I reckon somebody decked him for being a **** when he was a kid at
school, and he's never been right since

--
geoff

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 02:01:41 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named Andy
Hall randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 00:55:33 +0100, Hugo Nebula
wrote:

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:05:56 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named Andy
Hall randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

The contractor needs to have done the work in order to self certify
it. How can he do that legally if part was not done by him?

That's more to do with NICEIC's rules than anything contained in the
Approved Document.

What about the Approved Document paragraph 0.8 though?

I'm sorry. I misread your original post as saying that the contractor
needs to have done the work to _certify_ it. Although the bit you
quote doesn't make it obvious that the person or co. that designs,
installs, inspects or tests the work has to be the same.
--
Hugo Nebula
'What you have to ask yourself is,"if no-one on the internet wants
a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"'

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message .com,
writes
Doctor Evil wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

This is exactly like the six stages of a project:

1 - Enthusiasm
2 - Disillusionment
3 - Panic
4 - Hunt the guilty
5 - Blame the innocent
6 - Reward for those who had nothing to do with it

Lord Hall, I have ran many projects and never had any of those 6
above.

That thought would scare me.

All on time and on budget.

Unusual for building projects to have 6 in a row ontime and on budget.
And when people like yourself are involved it is a miracle if one per
lifetime comes in on time and on budget.

Every time you make these claims you unwittingly tell us just how much
drevil you talk. Another one for the drevil drivel thread.

I reckon somebody decked him for being a **** when he was a kid at
school, and he's never been right since

Maxie! Refrain! No one would dare do a thing. Maxie, everything I do is on
time and on budget.



_________________________________________
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In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message .com,
writes
Doctor Evil wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

This is exactly like the six stages of a project:

1 - Enthusiasm
2 - Disillusionment
3 - Panic
4 - Hunt the guilty
5 - Blame the innocent
6 - Reward for those who had nothing to do with it

Lord Hall, I have ran many projects and never had any of those 6
above.

That thought would scare me.

All on time and on budget.

Unusual for building projects to have 6 in a row ontime and on budget.
And when people like yourself are involved it is a miracle if one per
lifetime comes in on time and on budget.

Every time you make these claims you unwittingly tell us just how much
drevil you talk. Another one for the drevil drivel thread.

I reckon somebody decked him for being a **** when he was a kid at
school, and he's never been right since

Maxie! Refrain! No one would dare do a thing. Maxie, everything I do is on
time and on budget.

It probably is if you don't do anything.

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message .com,
writes
Doctor Evil wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

This is exactly like the six stages of a project:

1 - Enthusiasm
2 - Disillusionment
3 - Panic
4 - Hunt the guilty
5 - Blame the innocent
6 - Reward for those who had nothing to do with it

Lord Hall, I have ran many projects and never had any of those 6
above.

That thought would scare me.

All on time and on budget.

Unusual for building projects to have 6 in a row ontime and on budget.
And when people like yourself are involved it is a miracle if one per
lifetime comes in on time and on budget.

Every time you make these claims you unwittingly tell us just how much
drevil you talk. Another one for the drevil drivel thread.

I reckon somebody decked him for being a **** when he was a kid at
school, and he's never been right since

Maxie! Refrain! No one would dare do a thing. Maxie, everything I do is
on
time and on budget.

It probably is if you don't do anything.

That was very profound Maxie, very profound. Maxie, so all your projects
are on T&B?



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message .com,
writes
Doctor Evil wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

This is exactly like the six stages of a project:

1 - Enthusiasm
2 - Disillusionment
3 - Panic
4 - Hunt the guilty
5 - Blame the innocent
6 - Reward for those who had nothing to do with it

Lord Hall, I have ran many projects and never had any of those 6
above.

That thought would scare me.

All on time and on budget.

Unusual for building projects to have 6 in a row ontime and on budget.
And when people like yourself are involved it is a miracle if one per
lifetime comes in on time and on budget.

Every time you make these claims you unwittingly tell us just how much
drevil you talk. Another one for the drevil drivel thread.

I reckon somebody decked him for being a **** when he was a kid at
school, and he's never been right since

Maxie! Refrain! No one would dare do a thing. Maxie, everything I do is
on
time and on budget.

It probably is if you don't do anything.

That was very profound Maxie, very profound. Maxie, so all your projects
are on T&B?

You made the claim, ******** as usual I suppose



--
geoff