My Boiler is on its last legs - had our annual service today and the British Gas Crook, sorry, Man said spare parts were no longer available etc etc

So I'm preparing for the worst. We currently have a vented(?) system - cold water tank in the loft and hot water cylinder in the Airing cupboard upstairs. Boiler itself is downstairs in the kitchen. We have an ensuite with a Shower cubicle - thermostatic shower valve fed by an Aqualisa pump from a hot and cold feed from cylinder/cold tank.
In the main bathroom, I have a power shower fed form the same hot and cold tanks.

Seems as if opinion is certainly skewed towards Combi systems - question (finally) is....will I need to replace my Showers (v v problematic) or can they run with a new combi system or similar. I'd plan to do as much DIY as poss - prep work and flushing etc etc - what do people think I should do?

Very grateful as ever

Alex

My Boiler is on its last legs - had our annual service today and the
British Gas Crook, sorry, Man said spare parts were no longer available
etc etc

Same old. Keep the old boiler until it starts going wrong. Unless it is
particularly old and inefficient, it is more environmentally friendly to
waste a little gas and save on a lot of manufacturing processes (with
horrible PCBs etc.).

Seems as if opinion is certainly skewed towards Combi systems -
question (finally) is....will I need to replace my Showers (v v
problematic) or can they run with a new combi system or similar.

If you're happy with the shower performance and don't mind the noise/space
of the pumped tanked system, keep them. There will be much less plumbing to
do and your system will almost certainly have superior bath filling
performance.

High flow rate combis suitable for multiple simultaneous showers are much
more expensive than the simple modulating system boiler you would need to
run your existing hot water system. Standard rate combis are well priced,
but aren't brilliant running two showers.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
et...
My Boiler is on its last legs - had our annual service today and the
British Gas Crook, sorry, Man said spare parts were no longer available
etc etc

Same old. Keep the old boiler until it starts going wrong. Unless it is
particularly old and inefficient, it is more environmentally friendly to
waste a little gas and save on a lot of manufacturing processes (with
horrible PCBs etc.).

Seems as if opinion is certainly skewed towards Combi systems -
question (finally) is....will I need to replace my Showers (v v
problematic) or can they run with a new combi system or similar.

If you're happy with the shower performance and don't mind the noise/space
of the pumped tanked system, keep them. There will be much less plumbing
to
do and your system will almost certainly have superior bath filling
performance.

High flow rate combis suitable for multiple simultaneous showers are much
more expensive than the simple modulating system boiler you would need to
run your existing hot water system. Standard rate combis are well priced,
but aren't brilliant running two showers.

Simple, use two combi's.



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High flow rate combis suitable for multiple simultaneous showers are much
more expensive than the simple modulating system boiler you would need to
run your existing hot water system. Standard rate combis are well priced,
but aren't brilliant running two showers.

Simple, use two combi's.

Which, by definition, doubles the price.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
High flow rate combis suitable for multiple simultaneous showers are
much
more expensive than the simple modulating system boiler you would need
to
run your existing hot water system. Standard rate combis are well
priced,
but aren't brilliant running two showers.

Simple, use two combi's.

Which, by definition, doubles the price.

Doubles the price of smaller low priced units. Two W-B Juniors can be had
for around £1,000 and will deliver approx 20 litres/min. Look around for a
20 l/min combi and see what the prices are.

But it gives you so much more and highly cost effective. One combi does one
shower, one the other, with one not robbing the other, combine the two for
the bath to give a high flow. One does upstairs heating and one does
downstairs heating, both with their own stat/programmers. Two totally
independent systems. You can have the rad temperatures low upstairs and high
downstairs as well. If one combi drops out there is always heat in the house
and hot water (great bonus). No large cylinder taking up space and making
the place look like a school boiler room, just small neat white boxes on the
wall saving space. One poster has already done this with great success.

The only disadvantage is that there are two service costs. With two boilers
side by side a deal can be struck to reduce this.



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Doubles the price of smaller low priced units. Two W-B Juniors can be had
for around £1,000 and will deliver approx 20 litres/min. Look around for
a
20 l/min combi and see what the prices are.

Or you could just keep the existing system and spend 500 quid on a single
boiler, forget all the combi nonsense (with attendent expensive/time
consuming replumbing) and have 80 litres/min.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote:

If you're happy with the shower performance and don't mind the noise/space
of the pumped tanked system, keep them. There will be much less plumbing to
do and your system will almost certainly have superior bath filling
performance.

Superior bath filling performance - absolutely, why anyone would ever
want a combi escapes me, I can get up turn on the taps, have a ****,
clean my teeth and halfway through a shave the full size bath is
overflowing with steaming hot water. Wonderful. (and the tank still
has enough for the old woman to have her long shower)

Using a combi on a warm day in the middle of a once in 500 years
heatwave it would struggle to fill a 5 gallon bucket of bath
temperature water in a similar time (despite the manufacturers claims)

A few words for combi's

"cheap ****e from europe suitable for smelly frogs"
"the slowest way to run a bath - ever"
"the crappiest shower you ever had"
"a step back to the dark ages"

--

"No Spam" wrote in message
...
"Christian McArdle" wrote:

If you're happy with the shower performance and don't mind the
noise/space
of the pumped tanked system, keep them. There will be much less plumbing
to
do and your system will almost certainly have superior bath filling
performance.

Superior bath filling performance - absolutely, why anyone would ever
want a combi escapes me, I can get up turn on the taps, have a ****,
clean my teeth and halfway through a shave the full size bath is
overflowing with steaming hot water. Wonderful. (and the tank still
has enough for the old woman to have her long shower)

Using a combi on a warm day in the middle of a once in 500 years
heatwave it would struggle to fill a 5 gallon bucket of bath
temperature water in a similar time (despite the manufacturers claims)

A few words for combi's

"cheap ****e from europe suitable for smelly frogs"
"the slowest way to run a bath - ever"
"the crappiest shower you ever had"
"a step back to the dark ages"

You obviously haven't a clue what you are on about. read this.....and read
it properly...

Here is a run down on combi's:

Firstly, a combi is a "combination" of the heating and water system in one
case, eliminating external tanks and cylinders, and generally supply hot
water at high main pressure. To confuse a little, some can run at very low
pressures and even off tanks. Generally most are fed from the mains. It is
generally a matter of mounting the boiler and connect up the pipes. The
expert designers have done the hard work for you and put all in one case.

Types of combi:

1) The Infinitely Continuous Combi -

Heats cold mains water instantly as it runs through the combi. It never runs
out of hot water. This is the most common type of combi, generally having
lower flowrates than Nos 2 & 3 below. The largest flow rate instant combi is
a two bathroom model, 22 litres/min ECO-Hometec. Being a condenser it is
very economical too. http://www.eco-hometec.co.uk

2) Unvented Cylinder Combi -

An unvented cylinder is a similar to a conventional cylinder but run off the
high-pressure cold mains. A combi with an integral unvented cylinder has
approx 60 litre cylinder heated to approx 80C, with a quick recovery coil
that takes all the boilers output. A fast acting cylinder thermostat ensures
the boiler pumps heat into the cylinder ASAP with a recovery rate from cold
around 5-8 mins (Ariston claim 8 mins). The 80C water is blended down to
about 45-50C. e.g's, Ariston Genus 27 Plus, Glow Worm, Powermax, Alpha
CD50.

3) Infinately Continuous/Unvented cylinder combi -

An example being the Alpha CD50, a combination of both having a two stage
flowrate, of high flowrate when using the stored water with an automatic
flow regulator switching in to reduce flow to an infinately continuous
flowrate of approx 13-14 litres/min.
http://www.alpha-boilers.com/products/CD50.html

4) Heat Bank Combi -

Incoming water is instantly heated running through a plate heat exchanger
(as is most instantaneous combi's) that takes its heat from a "domestic hot
water only" store of water at approx 80C (instantaneous combi's take the
heat from a heat-exchanger heater via the burner). A fast acting thermostat
ensures the boiler pumps all of its heat into the store ASAP with a recovery
rate about 5-8 mins from cold. The 80C water is blended down to about
45-50C. They are generally two stage flow rates, in that when the thermal
store is exhausted it reverts to what the burner can produce, which is
approx 11-12 litre/minute. e.g. Vokera & Worcester floor standing models
(standard washing machine sizes).

N.B. The heat bank is a variation of a thermal store, but is "not" a thermal
store in the conventional sense in that a coil carrying cold mains water
runs though a store of hot water kept at about 80C. Heat-banks are far more
efficient and give higher flowrates than conventional coiled thermal stores.
The stainless steel plate heat-exchangers do not scale up so easily.

5) Combined Primary Storage Unit

(Not classed as a combi, but a derivative of a combi, but still a one box
solution, so still in the same family)

These are a combination of a large thermal store, or heat bank, and boiler
in one casing. The units are large (larger than standard washing machine
size) and floor mounted. The heating is taken off the thermal store, which
in many cases the DHW taken off the store using a plate heat-exchanger
(heat-bank). Unlike the Heat-bank in 3) above the thermal store supplies
heating "and" DHW, giving the "combined" to the title. They are available
from 1 to 2.5 bathroom models. Gledhill do an excellent condensing
version, the Gulfsream 2000. http://www.gledhill.net

Nos. 2), 3), 4) & 5) have high flowrates. No. 1 "generally" has low
flowrates but there are always exceptions and some can be high - e.g. the
ECO-Hometec infinitely continuous combi, actually has a very high flowrate.
Nos 2), 3), 4) & 5) use stored water, but in different ways. Unlike No. 1
"some" versions will eventually run cold, but that takes quite a time, hence
some are referred to as "two bathroom" models, having the ability to fill
two baths with very fast recovery rates. As hot water is being drawn off
the high rating burner is also reheating. Very rare do these combi's run
out of hot water in average use. When taking one shower the burner may be
re-heating faster than what can be drawn-off. No. 3) above uses stored
water but will not run out of hot water (high and low flowrates). Most
versions of No. 4) above are two stage flowrate models (high and low
flowrates) and will also not run out of hot water.

There are combi models that give hot water and heating simultaneously as
Combined Primary Storage Units do. Most don't as they are hot water
priority.



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"Doctor Evil" wrote:

Here is a run down on combi's:

snipped endless drivel

I read it, a turd no matter how dressed up is still a turd.


--

"No Spam" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Evil" wrote:

Here is a run down on combi's:

snipped endless drivel

I read it, a turd no matter how dressed up is still a turd.

....and an uniformed idiot, is still ....well.....an uninformed idiot. Sad
but true.


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"alexbartman" wrote in message
...

My Boiler is on its last legs - had our annual service today and the
British Gas Crook, sorry, Man said spare parts were no longer available
etc etc

So I'm preparing for the worst. We currently have a vented(?) system -
cold water tank in the loft and hot water cylinder in the Airing
cupboard upstairs. Boiler itself is downstairs in the kitchen. We
have an ensuite with a Shower cubicle - thermostatic shower valve fed
by an Aqualisa pump from a hot and cold feed from cylinder/cold tank.
In the main bathroom, I have a power shower fed form the same hot and
cold tanks.

Seems as if opinion is certainly skewed towards Combi systems -
question (finally) is....will I need to replace my Showers (v v
problematic) or can they run with a new combi system or similar. I'd
plan to do as much DIY as poss - prep work and flushing etc etc - what
do people think I should do?

Fit a high flow combi and remove the pump. Check with the mixer makers if
it is a high pressure model. Some can have the cartridge replaced from high
to low pressure.



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In article ,
alexbartman wrote:
My Boiler is on its last legs - had our annual service today and the
British Gas Crook, sorry, Man said spare parts were no longer available
etc etc

Standard sales pitch. There's a very good chance the most needed spares
are still available - as it sounds like a basic boiler.

Of course if you *depend* on having a BG service contract there's nothing
you can do about these lies.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"alexbartman" wrote in message
...

My Boiler is on its last legs - had our annual service today and the
British Gas Crook, sorry, Man said spare parts were no longer available
etc etc

So I'm preparing for the worst. We currently have a vented(?) system -
cold water tank in the loft and hot water cylinder in the Airing
cupboard upstairs. Boiler itself is downstairs in the kitchen. We
have an ensuite with a Shower cubicle - thermostatic shower valve fed
by an Aqualisa pump from a hot and cold feed from cylinder/cold tank.
In the main bathroom, I have a power shower fed form the same hot and
cold tanks.

Seems as if opinion is certainly skewed towards Combi systems -
question (finally) is....will I need to replace my Showers (v v
problematic) or can they run with a new combi system or similar. I'd
plan to do as much DIY as poss - prep work and flushing etc etc - what
do people think I should do?



What's the make & model and is there actually anything wrong with it to
warrant replacement or is it just BG "looking after their customers" by
suggesting replacement?



--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk