I fitted a new enamel bath a couple of months ago and I've noticed the first
traces of scale forming around the plughole. I checked on the instructions
for both Viakal and Cillit Bang, both of which say not to be used on enamel.
Can anyone recommend something safe? I thought vinegar possibly? - or would
this attack the metal plughole?

John

In article ,
"Nodge" writes:
I fitted a new enamel bath a couple of months ago and I've noticed the first
traces of scale forming around the plughole. I checked on the instructions
for both Viakal and Cillit Bang, both of which say not to be used on enamel.
Can anyone recommend something safe? I thought vinegar possibly? - or would
this attack the metal plughole?

It might attack the enamel same as the commercial descalers.
Enamel may be hard, but its surface is easily attacked by acids,
which takes off the shine which in turn makes it harder to
clean. Use a bathroom cleaner designed for the job which
claims to be safe on enamel.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Nodge wrote:
I fitted a new enamel bath a couple of months ago and I've noticed the first
traces of scale forming around the plughole. I checked on the instructions
for both Viakal and Cillit Bang, both of which say not to be used on enamel.
Can anyone recommend something safe? I thought vinegar possibly? - or would
this attack the metal plughole?

John


Krock Jell

"Old Bill" wrote in message
...
Nodge wrote:
I fitted a new enamel bath a couple of months ago and I've noticed the
first
traces of scale forming around the plughole. I checked on the
instructions
for both Viakal and Cillit Bang, both of which say not to be used on
enamel.
Can anyone recommend something safe? I thought vinegar possibly? - or
would
this attack the metal plughole?

John


Krock Jell

Diet coke works well on enamel baths (phosphoric acid) and as it doesn't
attack drinking glasses (I hope) it won't attack the enamel.

Ian Middleton wrote:
"Old Bill" wrote in message
...

Nodge wrote:

I fitted a new enamel bath a couple of months ago and I've noticed the
first
traces of scale forming around the plughole. I checked on the
instructions
for both Viakal and Cillit Bang, both of which say not to be used on
enamel.
Can anyone recommend something safe? I thought vinegar possibly? - or
would
this attack the metal plughole?

John



Krock Jell


Diet coke works well on enamel baths (phosphoric acid) and as it doesn't
attack drinking glasses (I hope) it won't attack the enamel.



Whether or not acid attacks the bath depends entirely on the composition
of the enamel not the acid.

Old enamels (pre 1970) were designed to be resistant to alkali (such as
the sodium hydroxide found in bleach) but not to acids (Viakal contains
hydrochloric acid IIRC) and as such _any_ acid (source of hydroxonium
ions) will damage it. The rate of damage will depend on the
concentration of the acid and a sufficiently weak acid may not produce
visible damage for quite some time. Old enamels were very good at high
temperatures which is why they were so extensively used.

Modern enamel coatings for things like baths aren't as good at high
temperature but are much more resistant to acids. After all no one cooks
in a bath so why make it good to 250 deg C? My guess would be that if it
is a modern enamel coating it will probably be ok to use mild acids such
as lemon juice and coke but _check a small area first_. If it does take
the shine off the enamel it is expensive to put it back.

The safest way to clean it is just using some elbow grease. It's slow
but it does give good results.

Note: Acids will also attack metal plug holes and generally give them a
dull look over time.

Graham

In message , Ian Middleton
writes
"Old Bill" wrote in message
...
Nodge wrote:
I fitted a new enamel bath a couple of months ago and I've noticed the
first
traces of scale forming around the plughole. I checked on the
instructions
for both Viakal and Cillit Bang, both of which say not to be used on
enamel.
Can anyone recommend something safe? I thought vinegar possibly? - or
would
this attack the metal plughole?

John


Krock Jell

Diet coke works well on enamel baths (phosphoric acid) and as it doesn't
attack drinking glasses (I hope) it won't attack the enamel.

Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for the
job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around a bath
is beyond me.

--
geoff

In message , raden
writes
Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for
the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around a
bath is beyond me.

Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two but:

Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre

that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

raden wrote:

Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around a bath
is beyond me.

Its better than drinking the stuff


--

bof wrote:
In message , raden writes

Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for
the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around
a bath is beyond me.


Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two but:

Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre

that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.


The acids are different in the two, hydrochloric in Viakal and
Phosphoric in cola. So it is comparing apples and oranges somewhat. They
have different "strengths" and therefore will differ in their
effectiveness at removing lime scale.

There are a number of reasons Viakal will probably be better than cola.

The acid in Viakal is much more concentrated. I would expect a pH of
probably 1 or maybe 2 where as cola would probably be more like 6 (maybe
5) since the pH scale is logarithmic this means that Viakal has at worst
(2 and 5) 1000 times more free ions and hence 1000 times more limescale
removing "strength".

The fizzing of the limescale (and perhaps you bath enamel) is the acid
attacking it. The reaction is:

2HCl + CaCO3 -- CaCl2 + H20 + CO2

The resulting salt when using Viakal is CaCl2 which is very soluble in
water and therefore easily washes away. CaPO4 (Calcium Phosphate) which
is the result of using cola is not as soluble and therefore not so
easily removed.

In message , doozer
writes
bof wrote:
In message , raden writes

Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for
the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around
a bath is beyond me.
Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two
but:
Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre
that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.


The acids are different in the two, hydrochloric in Viakal

AIUI Viakal is a mix of Maleic and Sulphamic acids, hydrochloric is
common in brick cleaner.




and Phosphoric in cola. So it is comparing apples and oranges
somewhat. They have different "strengths" and therefore will differ in
their effectiveness at removing lime scale.

There are a number of reasons Viakal will probably be better than cola.

The acid in Viakal is much more concentrated. I would expect a pH of
probably 1 or maybe 2 where as cola would probably be more like 6
(maybe 5) since the pH scale is logarithmic this means that Viakal has
at worst (2 and 5) 1000 times more free ions and hence 1000 times more
limescale removing "strength".

The fizzing of the limescale (and perhaps you bath enamel) is the acid
attacking it. The reaction is:

2HCl + CaCO3 -- CaCl2 + H20 + CO2

The resulting salt when using Viakal is CaCl2 which is very soluble in
water and therefore easily washes away. CaPO4 (Calcium Phosphate) which
is the result of using cola is not as soluble and therefore not so
easily removed.

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

bof wrote:
In message , doozer
writes

bof wrote:

In message , raden
writes

Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for
the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke
around a bath is beyond me.

Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two but:
Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre
that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.


The acids are different in the two, hydrochloric in Viakal


AIUI Viakal is a mix of Maleic and Sulphamic acids, hydrochloric is
common in brick cleaner.


Could well be. I've got some downstairs but it felt like such a long way
to walk just to check I thought I would try relying on the brain. Either
way, Viakal will still be much better at removing limescale.

Any strong acid will remove limescale (such as old battery acid - but
you are on your own if you try that as you will need to dilute it a bit
)). Weak acids will work they will just take a really long time.

"doozer" wrote in message
...

AIUI Viakal is a mix of Maleic and Sulphamic acids, hydrochloric is
common in brick cleaner.


Could well be. I've got some downstairs but it felt like such a long way
to walk just to check I thought I would try relying on the brain. Either
way, Viakal will still be much better at removing limescale.

Any strong acid will remove limescale (such as old battery acid - but you
are on your own if you try that as you will need to dilute it a bit )).
Weak acids will work they will just take a really long time.

Battery acid is sulphuric acid? When it reacts with the calcium scale, it
will produce calcium sulphate, which is insoluble. So I don't recommend it.

Buy a lemon and rub it over the surface.The juice contains citric acid. Or
buy citric acid crystals from the chemist and make up a dilute solution
inwater.

Keith G. Powell

In message , bof
writes
In message , raden
writes
Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for
the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around
a bath is beyond me.

Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two but:

Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre

that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.

Except that lime scale remover will stick to the surface and is
concentrated enough to do some good

A fiver sounds a lot for a litre of limescale remover - 5 litres of conc
phosphoric acid costs less than 20 quid

--
geoff

In message , doozer
writes
bof wrote:
In message , raden writes

Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for
the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around
a bath is beyond me.
Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two
but:
Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre
that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.


The acids are different in the two, hydrochloric in Viakal and
Phosphoric in cola. So it is comparing apples and oranges somewhat.
They have different "strengths" and therefore will differ in their
effectiveness at removing lime scale.

There are a number of reasons Viakal will probably be better than cola.

A word of caution when using HCl, (from experience) you can eat away the
surface of the enamel on an old bath with HCl (although I might have
been a bit enthusiastic with the concentration

--
geoff

In message , No Spam
writes
raden wrote:

Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around a bath
is beyond me.

Its better than drinking the stuff

Yeah, but would you risk buying the stuff in the first place ?


--
geoff

In article ,
raden wrote:
Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for the
job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around a bath
is beyond me.

Dunno - but most heavily advertised cleaning products are a ridiculous
price considering the chemicals they contain?

--
*How do they get the deer to cross at that yellow road sign?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , raden
writes
In message , bof
writes
In message , raden
writes
Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for
the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around
a bath is beyond me.

Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two but:

Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre

that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.

Except that lime scale remover will stick to the surface and is
concentrated enough to do some good

A fiver sounds a lot for a litre of limescale remover - 5 litres of
conc phosphoric acid costs less than 20 quid

Which aisle at Tesco?

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

In article , "bof"
says...
In message , raden
writes
In message , bof
writes
In message , raden
writes
Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for
the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke around
a bath is beyond me.

Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two but:

Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre

that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.

Except that lime scale remover will stick to the surface and is
concentrated enough to do some good

A fiver sounds a lot for a litre of limescale remover - 5 litres of
conc phosphoric acid costs less than 20 quid

Which aisle at Tesco?

Halfords, I believe.

In message , bof
writes
In message , raden
writes
In message , bof
writes
In message , raden
writes
Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool for
the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke
around a bath is beyond me.

Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two but:

Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre

that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.

Except that lime scale remover will stick to the surface and is
concentrated enough to do some good

A fiver sounds a lot for a litre of limescale remover - 5 litres of
conc phosphoric acid costs less than 20 quid

Which aisle at Tesco?

Just next to the hard spirits

--
geoff

In message , raden
writes
In message , bof
writes
In message , raden
writes
In message , bof
writes
In message , raden
writes
Scale remover (available all over the place) is the correct tool
for the job. Why anyone would want to **** about pouring diet coke
around a bath is beyond me.

Hmm, don't know how the % of active chemicals compares in the two but:

Tesco value cola 9.5p/litre
Viakal (limescale remover) £5.36/litre

that's knocking on 60x as expensive vol for vol, maybe I'll give the
cola a go.

Except that lime scale remover will stick to the surface and is
concentrated enough to do some good

A fiver sounds a lot for a litre of limescale remover - 5 litres of
conc phosphoric acid costs less than 20 quid

Which aisle at Tesco?

Just next to the hard spirits

Ta, that explains it, not familiar with that aisle.

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk