In article , Doctor Evil
writes

wrote in message
.. .

Just a point. Underfloor heating
does not use Polybuyelene pipe, as Hep2o
is. It uses santoprene and PEX.

which prompted the reply from Hepworth Plumbing:

Just to clarify, Polybutylene is very widely used for underfloor
heating applications, and for comfort cooling (chilled beams).

Anyone who uses that is a fool, it wasn't initially designed for underfloor
heating, only Hot & Cold plumbing. PEX is the best by far.

I know a site that is being fitted out in Hep2O and the fitters do not like
it. They test it to far higher test pressure than Hep state, because of the
problems they were getting. They have a very high failure rate on first fix.
When they do soldered copper they have it right first time every time, so no
going back to replace fittings and more testing and more time, and more
money.

You are, of course, talking crap John, just about every site uses
plastic as standard now with the visible bits in Copper, its no use
denying this, it is fact. The fitters love it and wouldn't use anything
else, I suggest you get out more and talk to real people instead of
inventing them to suit your fantasies
--
David

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Anything that was over 100% efficiency would produce more power than it
used.

Another one who has not a clue.

It's about time you got yourself an education. The average 15 year old
knows more about physics than you.

--
*Arkansas State Motto: Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Laugh.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mike Hibbert wrote:

It's amazing, I can remember coming on this usenet group to get some
practical advice on DIY rather that a character assasination of
someone
who has helped me out on a couple of occasions.

If you has a fight with IMM, be a man, visit him personally and sort
it
out, otherwise take your childlike spite, and try another ng.

We have much better solutions to his misadvice.

NT

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Anything that was over 100% efficiency would produce more power than
it
used.

Another one who has not a clue.

It's about time

You have not a clue. Condensing boilers can go up to 109% efficiency. It is
clear you were not chastised enough as a child.



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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

You have not a clue. Condensing boilers can go up to 109% efficiency.


Ok. I've seen this figure banded about a fair bit (and not just from IMM
and his aliases) - anyone care to explain in simple terms how this figure
is actually calculated?

I'm assuming that I'm not likely to be getting a negative gas bill if I
install one ;-)

Darren

Doctor Evil wrote:

You have not a clue. Condensing boilers can go up to 109% efficiency.

Go on, explain how, we could do with a laugh.

(BTW, try to explain using the actual energy value for gas and not the
"nett" one that excludes recovery of energy from the water vapour
by-product of combustion)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

dmc wrote:

Ok. I've seen this figure banded about a fair bit (and not just from IMM
and his aliases) - anyone care to explain in simple terms how this figure
is actually calculated?

When you completely burn gas, you create heat plus CO2 and water. The
water will be in its gaseous phase. If you condense the gaseous water
back into liquid water however, you can recover the heat released by the
condensation (i.e. the latent heat of vaporisation).

Historically boiler makers stated efficiency figures based on the
assumption that you could only recover the initial heat from the
combustion process. Thus in effect understating the energy content of
the gas.

Needless to say if you use the understated "nett" calorific value rather
than the gross one when calculating efficiencies on modern HE boilers,
you come out with nonsensical percentages (i.e. over 100%). Some folks
in these parts seem to think this means you are defying the laws of
physics and getting something for nothing.

I'm assuming that I'm not likely to be getting a negative gas bill if I
install one ;-)

Only in Dr. Drivel world... ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

[a nice clear explanation of gross and net calorific values (CVs)]

Can I add that it has always been standard UK practice to quote
efficiency based on gross CV, thus making 100% efficiency figures
completely out of place here? The CV quoted on your gas bill is gross CV.

In some mainland European countries it's traditional to use net CV
figures, with the result that condensing boilers can appear to be more
than 100% efficient. Despite this, the only perpetual motion machine
that has ever been made with (two) condensing (combi) boilers is called IMM.

--
Andy

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

[a nice clear explanation of gross and net calorific values (CVs)]

Can I add that it has always been standard UK practice to quote
efficiency based on gross CV, thus making 100% efficiency figures
completely out of place here? The CV quoted on your gas bill is gross CV.

In some mainland European countries it's traditional to use net CV
figures, with the result that condensing boilers can appear to be more
than 100% efficient. Despite this, the only perpetual motion machine
that has ever been made with (two) condensing (combi) boilers is called
IMM.

WRONG! Stick to being a lecky nerd. The UK states condensing efficiencies
over 100%.




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"dmc" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

You have not a clue. Condensing boilers can go up to 109% efficiency.


anyone care to explain in simple terms how this figure
is actually calculated?

Part L of the 2002 building regulations insists that all domestic boilers be
a minimum efficiency of 78%. Regular non-condensing boilers can only
achieve maximum seasonal efficiencies of 80%. This regulation promoted high
efficiency condensing boilers. An improved minimum seasonal efficiency of
86%, to be introduced in April 2005, now virtually eliminats non-condensing
boilers. But they are permited in exceptional cicumstances, so they have
not gone away.

To make different heating systems comparable, the net calorific value of
fuel is retained as a reference point. This means complete combustion
without extracting the latent heat from condensation has a limit of 100% -
regular non-condensing boilers cannot achieve higher than 100%. This
results in condensing boilers achieving efficiencies above 100%, since the
gross calorific value can be realised through condensation - extracting the
latent heat from the flue exhaust. A theoretical 111% efficiency is
achievable, however because of losses 109% is the maximum. Extracting this
otherwise wasted heat from the exhaust is what makes condensing boilers far
more efficient than regular boilers.

The peak efficiency increase is on average 19% over the best conventional
regular boilers, although state-of-the-art condensing boilers achieve much
higher figures. Seasonal efficiencies of over 92% and peaks of over 100% are
achievable.



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On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 00:33:55 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Just a point. Underfloor heating
does not use Polybuyelene pipe, as Hep2o
is. It uses santoprene and PEX.

which prompted the reply from Hepworth Plumbing:

Just to clarify, Polybutylene is very widely used for underfloor
heating applications, and for comfort cooling (chilled beams).

Anyone who uses that is a fool, it wasn't initially designed for underfloor
heating, only Hot & Cold plumbing. PEX is the best by far.

Irrelevant. The fact is that you posted something in an authorative
manner, presenting it as though it were fact. It was actually
completely false. That your statement above is also phrased as though
it were fact rather than your personal opinion and has been challenged
by at least two people so far, suggests to me that little has changed.

The main point though, is that in January 2000, in the thread I
referenced, you displayed an ignorance and lack of understanding of a
very basic principle of fluid dynamics, yet within a few months you
were presenting yourself to this group as a qualified and experienced
heating engineer.

Therefore, in my opinion, nothing you say on this newsgroup has any
credibility unless it is corroborated by others. I have noted over the
ensuing years that such corroboration rarely occurs.

David

The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

It is a matter of fact that efficiency cannot exceed 100%.

Another one who hasn't a clue about condesning boilers. Have you got bell
wire on your ring mains, like the rest of the trolls.

DrivEl you are an utter moron who doesn't have a clue about at least 90%
of what you claim expertise on. Back in 2000 some kind soul took the
trouble to answer your plea to have Latent Heat explained to you
"simply" but it hasn't registered with you.

Claiming an efficiency of over 100% is just plain dishonest just as was
using the Lower Calorific Value to calculate efficiency in the days
before Condensing Boilers. It is however understandable and the numbers
do add up unlike all the garbage you are constantly posting on subjects
as diverse as the 90% less emissions that the stupid Prius of yours
supposedly puts out though 70 amp loads on "ring mains" being normal to
"average baths" of 80 to 100 litres.

Dave has been using a tag line recently that you would be well advised
to follow. Something along the lines of when you have got yourself in a
hole the first thing to do is stop digging but you won't of course. You
have such a closed mind that the only things that ever get through are
adverts.

--
Roger

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

It is a matter of fact that efficiency cannot exceed 100%.

Another one who hasn't a clue about condesning boilers. Have you got
bell
wire on your ring mains, like the rest of the trolls.

DrivEl you are an utter moron who doesn't have a clue about at least 90%
of what you claim expertise on. Back in 2000 some kind soul took the
trouble to answer your plea to have Latent Heat explained to you
"simply" but it hasn't registered with you.

Moron person, I never asked for anyone to ever explain it to me.

snip inflamatory trolling babble

You should be locked up.



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In message , Doctor Evil
writes

wrote in message
.. .

Just a point. Underfloor heating
does not use Polybuyelene pipe, as Hep2o
is. It uses santoprene and PEX.

which prompted the reply from Hepworth Plumbing:

Just to clarify, Polybutylene is very widely used for underfloor
heating applications, and for comfort cooling (chilled beams).

Anyone who uses that is a fool, it wasn't initially designed for underfloor
heating, only Hot & Cold plumbing. PEX is the best by far.

I know a site that is being fitted out in Hep2O and the fitters do not like
it. They test it to far higher test pressure than Hep state, because of the
problems they were getting. They have a very high failure rate on first fix.
When they do soldered copper they have it right first time every time, so no
going back to replace fittings and more testing and more time, and more
money.

You're avoiding the point, aren't you

DIMM said: "Underfloor heating does not use Polybuyelene pipe"

Mr Hep said: "Polybutylene is very widely used for underfloor heating
applications"

Why do you insist in digging deeper holes for yourself ?

******

--
geoff

"David Shepherd" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 00:33:55 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Just a point. Underfloor heating
does not use Polybuyelene pipe, as Hep2o
is. It uses santoprene and PEX.

which prompted the reply from Hepworth Plumbing:

Just to clarify, Polybutylene is very widely used for underfloor
heating applications, and for comfort cooling (chilled beams).

Anyone who uses that is a fool, it wasn't initially designed for
underfloor
heating, only Hot & Cold plumbing. PEX is the best by far.

Irrelevant.

Asolute crap.

snip trolling drivel



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The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

You have not a clue. Condensing boilers can go up to 109% efficiency. It is
clear you were not chastised enough as a child.

Lower C.V. Higher C.V. Higher/Lower

North Sea Gas 34500 38500 111.6

Kerosene 43300 46200 106.7
Diesel 42700 45400 106.3

Seems dIMM has been agoogling as in another response he quotes the
theoretical maximum as 111%. But he also claims an actual of 109% which
seems to me to be far too close (98%) to the theoretical maximum to be
realisable. You don't get any of the latent heat out if the boiler is
not in condensing mode and that doesn't even start until the return
temperature is low (53C?).

The lower figures for oil might be one reason why oil fired condensing
boilers don't have a high profile. DrivEl of course wouldn't even
consider that his figures apply only to North Sea Gas.

--
Roger

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

You have not a clue. Condensing boilers
can go up to 109% efficiency. It is
clear you were not chastised enough as a child.

Lower

Read my post of this.

snip rubbish



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"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Evil
writes

wrote in message
.. .

Just a point. Underfloor heating
does not use Polybuyelene pipe, as Hep2o
is. It uses santoprene and PEX.

which prompted the reply from Hepworth Plumbing:

Just to clarify, Polybutylene is very widely used for underfloor
heating applications, and for comfort cooling (chilled beams).

Anyone who uses that is a fool, it wasn't initially designed for
underfloor
heating, only Hot & Cold plumbing. PEX is the best by far.

I know a site that is being fitted out in Hep2O and the fitters do not
like
it. They test it to far higher test pressure than Hep state, because of
the
problems they were getting. They have a very high failure rate on first
fix.
When they do soldered copper they have it right first time every time, so
no
going back to replace fittings and more testing and more time, and more
money.

You're avoiding the point, aren't you

DIMM said: "Underfloor heating does
not use Polybuyelene pipe"

Maxie, have got Dim Lin the Oriental enchantress slaving at a site? Maxie,
a Russian was just banged up for slave labouring and all that. Don't you
have any shame?



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The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

DrivEl you are an utter moron who doesn't have a clue about at least 90%
of what you claim expertise on. Back in 2000 some kind soul took the
trouble to answer your plea to have Latent Heat explained to you
"simply" but it hasn't registered with you.

Moron person, I never asked for anyone to ever explain it to me.

snip inflamatory trolling babble

Don't hide behind your multiple personality disorder John. You may have
been wearing your Adam wig back in 2000 but it as still you who posted
the message I have repeated below and no amount of lying will get you
out of that particular hole, so stop digging.

*******************************************
Newsgroups: alt.hvac
From: "Adam" -
Date: 2000/01/13
Subject: Latent Heat

Can anyone explain this simply.

cheers

**************************************

You should be locked up.

Like so many of your ramblings they apply ever so appropriately to you
rather than than the object of your ire.

--
Roger

wrote in message
oups.com...
Mike Hibbert wrote:

It's amazing, I can remember coming on this usenet group to get some
practical advice on DIY rather that a character assasination of
someone
who has helped me out on a couple of occasions.

If you has a fight with IMM, be a man, visit him personally and sort
it
out, otherwise take your childlike spite, and try another ng.

We have much better solutions to his misadvice.

Like running 13 amp through 0.5mm wire. Only on the Internet do you get
this.




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"." wrote in message
...

I know a site that is being fitted out in Hep2O and the fitters do not
like
it. They test it to far higher test pressure than Hep state, because of
the
problems they were getting. They have a very high failure rate on first
fix.
When they do soldered copper they have it right first time every time, so
no
going back to replace fittings and more testing and more time, and more
money.

You are, of course, talking
crap John, just about every site uses
plastic as standard now with the visible
bits in Copper, its no use denying this,
it is fact. The fitters love it

Bertie, fitters hate it and wouldn't have it in their own homes.

snip useless stuff



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The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

snip rubbish

DrivEl you are still being the complete moron.

Unlike the garbage you tend to post much of what you snipped was factual
and calling it rubbish only reinforces the view that you by far the most
stupid person ever to venture onto usenet. But keep on wasting
bandwidth. The original posting remains for others to read and join me
in laughing at the loon who is so stupid he thinks he is clever. When
IQs were handed out I think they made a mistake with you and gave you a
negative one.

--
Roger

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Anyone who uses that is a fool, it wasn't initially designed for
underfloor
heating, only Hot & Cold plumbing. PEX is the best by far.

Oh deare. I have about 500 meters of it under my flor,

Rip it out NOW. PEX is what you want, not some 2nd rate hot and cold piping
that the maker jumped on the bandwagon with, claiming all sorts. PEX man,
PEX!!!! Get that fitted NOW. Be very very frigtened, it will leak and your
foundations will rot.

In the USA they have banned such pipe. Polybutylene plastic pipe, is banned
in the USA because of catastrophic failures.

http://www.polybutylene.com/poly.html

A snip for you:

Throughout the 1980's lawsuits were filed complaining of allegedly defective
manufacturing and defective installation causing hundreds of millions of
dollars in damages. Although the manufacturers have never admitted that poly
is defective, they have agreed to fund the Class Action settlement with an
initial and minimum amount of $950 million. You'll have to contact the
appropriate settlement claim company to find out if you qualify under this
settlement.


"A series of reports have suggested that increased use of choloramines
accelerates corrosion and degradation of some metals and elastomers common
to distribution plumbing and appurtenances.

With regard to elastomers, the study showed that with few exceptions,
solutions of chloramines (either monochloramine or dichloramine) produced
greater material swelling, deeper and more dense surface cracking, a more
rapid loss of elasticity, and greater loss of tensile strength than
equivalent concentrations of free chlorine."
----Steven Reiber, HDR Engineering, American Water Works Association
Research Foundation


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"Roger" wrote in message
k...
realisable. You don't get any of the latent heat out if the boiler is
not in condensing mode and that doesn't even start until the return
temperature is low (53C?).

So for a condensing boiler, are the radiators reset to have about 25 deg C
across them ?

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

DrivEl you are an utter moron who doesn't have a clue about at least
90%
of what you claim expertise on. Back in 2000 some kind soul took the
trouble to answer your plea to have Latent Heat explained to you
"simply" but it hasn't registered with you.

Moron person, I never asked for anyone to ever explain it to me.

snip inflamatory trolling babble

Don't

This man is disturbed. He chases people all over the net and abuses them
with pesdonal amil insults.

Roger, I am being very serious with you. Get yourself sorted out,. Get
help. Please get help.



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"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
realisable. You don't get any of the latent heat out if the boiler is
not in condensing mode and that doesn't even start until the return
temperature is low (53C?).

So for a condensing boiler, are the radiators reset to have about 25 deg C
across them ?

If you can. But modern condensers have load compensation control to ensure
the boiler is always at the lowest return temperautre, so it is OK to have
it on rads sized for a regular boiler. Most of running time a heating
system does not require full output from a boiler. Most of the time it is on
part load. This means that in normal everyday use the rads are oversized
anyway. Only when it is at its maximum design operation (-3 outside) will
the boiler be full on and the rads undersized.



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"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

snip rubbish

D

snip drivel

Roger, get yourself sorted out man.


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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
To make different heating systems comparable, the net calorific value of
fuel is retained as a reference point.

Net. Do you understand what this means? I know you're simply quoting, but
surely one of your claimed experience and qualifications must understand a
little about the subject?

This means complete combustion without extracting the latent heat from
condensation has a limit of 100% - regular non-condensing boilers cannot
achieve higher than 100%. This results in condensing boilers achieving
efficiencies above 100%, since the gross calorific value can be realised
through condensation - extracting the latent heat from the flue exhaust.
A theoretical 111% efficiency is achievable, however because of losses
109% is the maximum. Extracting this otherwise wasted heat from the
exhaust is what makes condensing boilers far more efficient than regular
boilers.

Now give us the genuine figures based on the *real* meaning of efficiency.
As if.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Evil
writes

wrote in message
.. .

Just a point. Underfloor heating
does not use Polybuyelene pipe, as Hep2o
is. It uses santoprene and PEX.

which prompted the reply from Hepworth Plumbing:

Just to clarify, Polybutylene is very widely used for underfloor
heating applications, and for comfort cooling (chilled beams).

Anyone who uses that is a fool, it wasn't initially designed for
underfloor
heating, only Hot & Cold plumbing. PEX is the best by far.

I know a site that is being fitted out in Hep2O and the fitters do not
like
it. They test it to far higher test pressure than Hep state, because of
the
problems they were getting. They have a very high failure rate on first
fix.
When they do soldered copper they have it right first time every time, so
no
going back to replace fittings and more testing and more time, and more
money.

You're avoiding the point, aren't you

DIMM said: "Underfloor heating does
not use Polybuyelene pipe"

Maxie, have got Dim Lin the Oriental enchantress slaving at a site? Maxie,
a Russian was just banged up for slave labouring and all that. Don't you
have any shame?



Since you just avoided answering, I'll repeat it as you're somewhat hard
of thinking

"You're avoiding the point, aren't you

DIMM said: "Underfloor heating does not use Polybuyelene pipe"

Mr Hep said: "Polybutylene is very widely used for underfloor heating
applications"

Why do you insist in digging deeper holes for yourself ?

******"


Can you give a sensible reply to the above for a change


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...

Maxie, have got Dim Lin the Oriental enchantress slaving at a site?
Maxie,
a Russian was just banged up for slave labouring and all that. Don't you
have any shame?

Since you just avoided

Maxie, read my disturbing post on this stuff. BANNED in the USA. Do you
think I would recommend a dodgy product? Maxie, my oh my!



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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
To make different heating systems comparable, the net calorific value of
fuel is retained as a reference point.

Net. Do you understand what this means?

It is clear you don't. And you never will. It's the way you are made.

snip



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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Anything that was over 100% efficiency would produce more power than it
used.


Another one who has not a clue.


It's about time you got yourself an education. The average 15 year old
knows more about physics than you.


What makes you think that Drivel is even a teenager?

I assumed he was about 11 or 12.

John Rumm wrote:

dmc wrote:

Ok. I've seen this figure banded about a fair bit (and not just from IMM
and his aliases) - anyone care to explain in simple terms how this figure
is actually calculated?


When you completely burn gas, you create heat plus CO2 and water. The
water will be in its gaseous phase. If you condense the gaseous water
back into liquid water however, you can recover the heat released by the
condensation (i.e. the latent heat of vaporisation).

Historically boiler makers stated efficiency figures based on the
assumption that you could only recover the initial heat from the
combustion process. Thus in effect understating the energy content of
the gas.

Needless to say if you use the understated "nett" calorific value rather
than the gross one when calculating efficiencies on modern HE boilers,
you come out with nonsensical percentages (i.e. over 100%). Some folks
in these parts seem to think this means you are defying the laws of
physics and getting something for nothing.

Of course, if you consider the atomic energy in the fuel, the efficiency
is about 10 to the minus 500 or something.



I'm assuming that I'm not likely to be getting a negative gas bill if
I install one ;-)


Only in Dr. Drivel world... ;-)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Like running 13 amp through 0.5mm wire. Only on the Internet do you get
this.


My internet manages fine through wire rather less than 0.5mm. Nor does it
need anything like 13 amps.

Do you understand anything electrical?

Does he understand anything? Period?
Bandar Log. That's our John.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Like running 13 amp through 0.5mm wire. Only on the Internet do you get
this.



My internet manages fine through wire rather less than 0.5mm. Nor does it
need anything like 13 amps.

Do you understand anything electrical?

Does he understand anything? Period?
Bandar Log. That's our John.

And here he is, caught in the act again!

http://www.grisby.org/burglar.html

I always though that over 100% was a con trick, now I know better. Thanks for the clear expanation.

Thanks for that, very interesting. I didn't know America had all those problems. I will stick to copper in the future. I have no intention of installing underfloor heating anyway, and if so I will avoid polybutylene pipe. I would hate to rip a cement floor up.

In article , Hands On Hands.On.1k4r
writes

Snip

The peak efficiency increase is on average 19% over the best
conventional
regular boilers, although state-of-the-art condensing boilers achieve
much
higher figures. Seasonal efficiencies of over 92% and peaks of over
100% are
achievable.


I always though that over 100% was a con trick, now I know better.
Thanks for the clear expanation.


Isn't talking to yourself the first sign of madness John?
--
David

In article , Hands On Hands.On.1k4r
writes


"A series of reports have suggested that increased use of choloramines
accelerates corrosion and degradation of some metals and elastomers
common
to distribution plumbing and appurtenances.

With regard to elastomers, the study showed that with few exceptions,
solutions of chloramines (either monochloramine or dichloramine)
produced
greater material swelling, deeper and more dense surface cracking, a
more
rapid loss of elasticity, and greater loss of tensile strength than
equivalent concentrations of free chlorine."
----Steven Reiber, HDR Engineering, American Water Works Association
Research Foundation


Thanks for that, very interesting. I didn't know America had all those
problems. I will stick to copper in the future. I have no intention of
installing underfloor heating anyway, and if so I will avoid
polybutylene pipe. I would hate to rip a cement floor up.

I don't know whether you think you're kidding us or fooling yourself
into thinking somebody else is agreeing with you, either way its one of
the saddest things I have seen on ng's (and that's saying a lot)
--
David

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Like running 13 amp through 0.5mm wire. Only on the Internet do
you get
this.

My internet manages fine through wire rather less than 0.5mm. Nor
does it
need anything like 13 amps.

Do you understand anything electrical?

He doesnt even understand the difference between a recommendation and
describing what survived. If he thinks I at any time *recommended*
doing that he's beyond hope.

At least this thread might save us all some time with this nitwit.


NT