Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small T's
coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would indicate
where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Cheers.

In article .com,
"Dundonald" says...
Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small T's
coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would indicate
where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Yes.

On 28 Jan 2005 13:25:02 -0800, "Dundonald"
wrote:

Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small T's
coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would indicate
where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Cheers.


Yes it does.

--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 28 Jan 2005 13:25:02 -0800, "Dundonald"
wrote:

Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small T's
coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would indicate
where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Cheers.


Yes it does.

That's very interesting.

Our deed plans don't show such marks. The text says that the fences are the
shared responsibility of adjoining neighbours.

As it happens we haven't any problems at the moment and since we'd rather
have fences as we want them we've replaced them. But I can see that it could
be a problem for some ... the marks are ideal. When did they begin to be
used?

Mary

--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:24:06 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On 28 Jan 2005 13:25:02 -0800, "Dundonald"
wrote:

Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small T's
coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would indicate
where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Cheers.


Yes it does.

That's very interesting.

Our deed plans don't show such marks. The text says that the fences are the
shared responsibility of adjoining neighbours.

That could be a reason for absence of Ts.


As it happens we haven't any problems at the moment and since we'd rather
have fences as we want them we've replaced them. But I can see that it could
be a problem for some ... the marks are ideal. When did they begin to be
used?

Quite a long time. IIRC, they were on the plan of an early c.20
house we had at one point.



Mary

--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:24:06 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On 28 Jan 2005 13:25:02 -0800, "Dundonald"
wrote:

Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small T's
coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would indicate
where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Cheers.


Yes it does.

That's very interesting.

Our deed plans don't show such marks. The text says that the fences are the
shared responsibility of adjoining neighbours.

Do these deeds specify "fences"? My "property" doesn't actually become
mine for just over three years and I CBA to call upon the Building
Society to check details. One fence between me and my immediate
next-door neighbour was a _hedge_ until a couple of decades ago, when
it became difficult to manage and we went "fence".

As it happens, I get on well with all (three) of my immediate
neighbours, and we readily share the cost of maintenance on an equal
basis.

Oddly, I did a search of the Land Registry (LR) site and (for a fee!)
got some info about my property. Just across the footpath past my
house there's a grass verge. The LR plot seems to show (although
dimensions aren't shewn) this verge, and half of the road, as mine.

I'm not saying too much, as obviously the LA maintain the road, and
mow the grass of the verge... :-)

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 28 Jan 2005 13:25:02 -0800, "Dundonald"
wrote:

Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of
my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small
T's
coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would
indicate
where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Cheers.


Yes it does.

That's very interesting.

Our deed plans don't show such marks. The text says that the fences
are the
shared responsibility of adjoining neighbours.

As it happens we haven't any problems at the moment and since we'd
rather
have fences as we want them we've replaced them. But I can see that
it could
be a problem for some ... the marks are ideal. When did they begin to
be
used?

Don't know exactly but the date on my leasehold paper is 1981.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 28 Jan 2005 13:25:02 -0800, "Dundonald"
wrote:

Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small
T's
coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would
indicate
where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Cheers.


Yes it does.

Thanks!
--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Mary Fisher wrote:

SNIP
Our deed plans don't show such marks. The text says that the fences are the
shared responsibility of adjoining neighbours.

As it happens we haven't any problems at the moment and since we'd rather
have fences as we want them we've replaced them. But I can see that it could
be a problem for some ... the marks are ideal. When did they begin to be
used?

Mary


Not sure about a beginning of the idea, but I worked in a surveyors
office in the late 70's and it was common practice then, and in evidence
on earlier plans (istr, but it was a long time ago)

They indicate the "ownership" of the boundary, again I _think_
regardless of what it's made of.

Dundonald wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

On 28 Jan 2005 13:25:02 -0800, "Dundonald"
wrote:


Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small

T's

coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would

indicate

where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Cheers.


Yes it does.


Thanks!

--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


A bit of an aside, also I expect most of you know, but as from the end
of this month you can contact the Land registry and for £1 get the deeds
to any property. I plan to get my next doors neighbours to see if the
boundaries etc match mine.

In article , "Mary
Fisher" says...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 28 Jan 2005 13:25:02 -0800, "Dundonald"
wrote:

Evening,

can someone please help this numpty. I'm looking at a diagram of my
property inside the leasehold papers. I'm looking to confirm which
boundary wall I am responsible for. I can see what look like small T's
coming off of boundary lines. Can someone confirm this would indicate
where responsibility lies? For example, if the T comes off the
boundary line and in to my property this would indicate my
responsiblity?

Cheers.


Yes it does.

That's very interesting.

Our deed plans don't show such marks. The text says that the fences are the
shared responsibility of adjoining neighbours.

As it happens we haven't any problems at the moment and since we'd rather
have fences as we want them we've replaced them. But I can see that it could
be a problem for some ... the marks are ideal. When did they begin to be
used?

Before 1931, judging by the deeds to my place.

It really is nothing like as simple as many would believe. Take a look at
this site
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/ and http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/ for a
much more detailed account.

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
....
A bit of an aside, also I expect most of you know, but as from the end of
this month you can contact the Land registry and for £1 get the deeds to
any property. I plan to get my next doors neighbours to see if the
boundaries etc match mine.

From experience, Land Registry does not always get the boundaries right. The
Industrial Estate my business is based on has had a long running problem,
because the LR boundary was placed on the wrong side of a thick line used to
denote the boundaries on the original plans lodged with them. It does not
help that the original plans have now disappeared (a long story involving
the previous owner and large sums of money gone missing somewhere in the
chain between the purchasers of the factories, a deceased developer, the
preious owner's solicitor and the previous owner).

Colin Bignell

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
....
Oddly, I did a search of the Land Registry (LR) site and (for a fee!)
got some info about my property. Just across the footpath past my
house there's a grass verge. The LR plot seems to show (although
dimensions aren't shewn) this verge, and half of the road, as mine.

That is not uncommon, particularly in older properties. However, if the road
and footpath have been adopted by the Council, you no longer have any rights
over that land, nor responsibilities for it.

Colin Bignell

In article , "Peter Crosland"
says...
It really is nothing like as simple as many would believe. Take a look at
this site
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/ and http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/ for a
much more detailed account.

Responsibility for boundaries is as simple as has been stated - what
can be complicated is determining the position of a disputed
boundary.

Here there is no info on the deeds concerning boundary fences or walls,
the deeds solely mark where the land ends, with fairly coarse
resolution.

I guess it is basically upto us to communicate, and the sensible thing
would be to share costs for fence replacement when due. Does this sound
right?


NT

Responsibility for boundaries is as simple as has been stated - what
can be complicated is determining the position of a disputed
boundary.

Sorry Rob but you are quite wrong. It is very common for the deeds or Land
Registry to be anything but clear on that.

wrote:

Here there is no info on the deeds concerning boundary fences or walls,
the deeds solely mark where the land ends, with fairly coarse
resolution.

I guess it is basically upto us to communicate, and the sensible thing
would be to share costs for fence replacement when due. Does this sound
right?


NT

I agree, but at times the boundary is a high retaining wall, which if
fails could cause considerable damage. Also very expensive to repair.
Determining the responsibility for that could be essential.

In article , "Peter Crosland"
says...
Responsibility for boundaries is as simple as has been stated - what
can be complicated is determining the position of a disputed
boundary.

Sorry Rob but you are quite wrong. It is very common for the deeds or Land
Registry to be anything but clear on that.

I said that where the original deeds carry the "T" marks then that
determines responsibility for maintaining the boundary - what could
be unclear about that?

Sorry Rob but you are quite wrong. It is very common for the deeds or
Land
Registry to be anything but clear on that.

I said that where the original deeds carry the "T" marks then that
determines responsibility for maintaining the boundary - what could
be unclear about that?

The fact that it is a strong presumption but not definitive proof. As with
so many things to do with boundaries the whole circumstances need to be
considered not just one part in isolation.

Peter Crosland

Our deed plans don't show such marks. The text says that the fences are
the
shared responsibility of adjoining neighbours.

Mary



I didn't know that was possible. Sounds like a recipe for conflict to me.
Its fine when you get on with your neighbour but people move on.

How do the deeds word it? There must be some allocation of
responsibility surely? I have a very old house and of course there
are no 'T' marks (what a good idea) but the plans are clearly marked
to show ownership and responsibility for the boundaries. None of them
mine, I'm pleased to say, as there are quite a lot of them.

Peter Scott

In article , nightjar
writes

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
...
A bit of an aside, also I expect most of you know, but as from the end of
this month you can contact the Land registry and for £1 get the deeds to
any property. I plan to get my next doors neighbours to see if the
boundaries etc match mine.

From experience, Land Registry does not always get the boundaries right. The
Industrial Estate my business is based on has had a long running problem,
because the LR boundary was placed on the wrong side of a thick line used to
denote the boundaries on the original plans lodged with them. It does not
help that the original plans have now disappeared (a long story involving
the previous owner and large sums of money gone missing somewhere in the
chain between the purchasers of the factories, a deceased developer, the
preious owner's solicitor and the previous owner).

Colin Bignell

If you ask LR they will tell you that boundaries can only be determined
in a Court of Law, your property plan is just a good starting point.

--
David

"." wrote in message
...
In article , nightjar
writes

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
...
A bit of an aside, also I expect most of you know, but as from the end
of
this month you can contact the Land registry and for £1 get the deeds to
any property. I plan to get my next doors neighbours to see if the
boundaries etc match mine.

From experience, Land Registry does not always get the boundaries right.
The
Industrial Estate my business is based on has had a long running problem,
because the LR boundary was placed on the wrong side of a thick line used
to
denote the boundaries on the original plans lodged with them. It does not
help that the original plans have now disappeared (a long story involving
the previous owner and large sums of money gone missing somewhere in the
chain between the purchasers of the factories, a deceased developer, the
preious owner's solicitor and the previous owner).

Colin Bignell

If you ask LR they will tell you that boundaries can only be determined
in a Court of Law, your property plan is just a good starting point.

In this case, they were determined by LR and incorrectly at that.

Colin Bignell

In article , nightjar
writes

"." wrote in message
.. .
In article , nightjar
writes

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
...
A bit of an aside, also I expect most of you know, but as from the end
of
this month you can contact the Land registry and for £1 get the deeds to
any property. I plan to get my next doors neighbours to see if the
boundaries etc match mine.

From experience, Land Registry does not always get the boundaries right.
The
Industrial Estate my business is based on has had a long running problem,
because the LR boundary was placed on the wrong side of a thick line used
to
denote the boundaries on the original plans lodged with them. It does not
help that the original plans have now disappeared (a long story involving
the previous owner and large sums of money gone missing somewhere in the
chain between the purchasers of the factories, a deceased developer, the
preious owner's solicitor and the previous owner).

Colin Bignell

If you ask LR they will tell you that boundaries can only be determined
in a Court of Law, your property plan is just a good starting point.

In this case, they were determined by LR and incorrectly at that.

LR stated categorically where the boundary was? that goes against all
the warnings on their website and could be challenged. The thick line
that LR use to denote boundaries is very vague, dimensions are better or
as they explained to me natural boundaries are also good though its not
easy to determine exactly where the boundary is in regard to ditches,
ponds and roads etc.
--
David

"Broadback" wrote:
A bit of an aside, also I expect most of you know, but as from the end of
this month you can contact the Land registry and for £1 get the deeds to
any property. I plan to get my next doors neighbours to see if the
boundaries etc match mine.

You can already.
www.landregisteronline.gov.uk

Al

wrote in message
oups.com...
Here there is no info on the deeds concerning boundary fences or walls,
the deeds solely mark where the land ends, with fairly coarse
resolution.

I guess it is basically upto us to communicate, and the sensible thing
would be to share costs for fence replacement when due. Does this sound
right?

Sounds eminently reasonable.
If only there were more people like you.

Al

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:34:05 +0000, . wrote:


LR stated categorically where the boundary was? that goes against all
the warnings on their website and could be challenged. The thick line
that LR use to denote boundaries is very vague, dimensions are better or
as they explained to me natural boundaries are also good though its not
easy to determine exactly where the boundary is in regard to ditches,
ponds and roads etc.

I picked up a title plan from the land registry this morning (see
http://www.puppet-head.co.uk/plan.jpg snipped version), better than I
thought, the last one I've seen was some multiply faxed copy from the
solicitor, on which you could hardly make out the street.

Think they need a thinner red pen though! If there wasn't other properties
the same shape I would have missed quite a lot.

Steve

Steve Peake wrote:


I picked up a title plan from the land registry this morning (see
http://www.puppet-head.co.uk/plan.jpg snipped version), better than I
thought, the last one I've seen was some multiply faxed copy from the
solicitor, on which you could hardly make out the street.

Think they need a thinner red pen though! If there wasn't other properties
the same shape I would have missed quite a lot.

Steve
If done properly, and it looks like it has been, the red line should be
on the INSIDE of the printed line.