Is it OK to reroute 3/4 of my roof's rain water down the foul water pipe
instead of down the surface water pipe?

My top floor flat has a dual water drainage system - FW and SW.
It has a double roof with a valley gutter between them, and two gutters at
the front and rear behind parapets.
Rain water from the centre valley and front gutters goes down drainpipes
inside my flat to the rear gutter and then it all goes through the parapet
down to ground at the back of the building.

The pipes are enclosed in massive plasterboard box sections running the
length of the flat and are not only taking up lots of space, but develop
leaks occasionally. When this happens, it's a real task to open them up,
repair the leaks and then replaster and paint them.

The SW pipe goes right next to the FW pipe at the centre valley, and
draining the SW from centre and front roof planes into the FW would mean I
could get rid of half of the pipe.

I know it's a mortal sin to connect FW to a SW drain, but how about the
other way around?
Cheers.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
S lo wrote:

Is it OK to reroute 3/4 of my roof's rain water down the foul water
pipe instead of down the surface water pipe?

My top floor flat has a dual water drainage system - FW and SW.
It has a double roof with a valley gutter between them, and two
gutters at the front and rear behind parapets.
Rain water from the centre valley and front gutters goes down
drainpipes inside my flat to the rear gutter and then it all goes
through the parapet down to ground at the back of the building.

The pipes are enclosed in massive plasterboard box sections running
the length of the flat and are not only taking up lots of space, but
develop leaks occasionally. When this happens, it's a real task to
open them up, repair the leaks and then replaster and paint them.

The SW pipe goes right next to the FW pipe at the centre valley, and
draining the SW from centre and front roof planes into the FW would
mean I could get rid of half of the pipe.

I know it's a mortal sin to connect FW to a SW drain, but how about
the other way around?
Cheers.

Many older properties have only one combined drainage system for FW and SW.
The idea of separating them for newer properties is that it cuts down on the
sewage treatment works capacity required - because SW can go straight into a
river without needing to be treated.

If you put SW into a FW system, it will get treated unnecessarily - but that
is about all. Some water boards give a discount on your water rates if your
surface water *doesn't* go into the FW system. If you currently get this
discount, you'll no longer qualify for it if you do what you propose - and
if the water board finds out! You're unlikely to end up in prison - for this
at any rate! g?
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Cheers,
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S lo wrote:
Is it OK to reroute 3/4 of my roof's rain water down the foul water pipe
instead of down the surface water pipe?

My top floor flat has a dual water drainage system - FW and SW.
It has a double roof with a valley gutter between them, and two gutters at
the front and rear behind parapets.
Rain water from the centre valley and front gutters goes down drainpipes
inside my flat to the rear gutter and then it all goes through the parapet
down to ground at the back of the building.

The pipes are enclosed in massive plasterboard box sections running the
length of the flat and are not only taking up lots of space, but develop
leaks occasionally. When this happens, it's a real task to open them up,
repair the leaks and then replaster and paint them.

The SW pipe goes right next to the FW pipe at the centre valley, and
draining the SW from centre and front roof planes into the FW would mean I
could get rid of half of the pipe.

I know it's a mortal sin to connect FW to a SW drain, but how about the
other way around?
Cheers.


20+ years ago, you could apply for an "easement" to allow this on new
builds and alterations via building control. It wasn't automatically
allowed, but nor was it always rejected. I'm not sure what the
situation is now.

Andrew

20+ years ago, you could apply for an "easement" to allow this on new
builds and alterations via building control. It wasn't automatically
allowed, but nor was it always rejected. I'm not sure what the situation
is now.

A couple of years ago our BDC officer said it was fine to do it. He said
that before they didnt allow it but as the water company automatically
charge for surface water disposal and you now have to apply for the rebate
that they felt it was now perfectly fair.

Sam

I know it's a mortal sin to connect FW to a SW drain, but how about the
other way around?
Cheers.


20+ years ago, you could apply for an "easement" to allow this on new
builds and alterations via building control. It wasn't automatically
allowed, but nor was it always rejected. I'm not sure what the
situation is now.

I'm not an expert on such matters, but have been looking into similar things
myself recently. I can't see anything in building regs which specifically
says you CAN'T run SW to a FW drain, however reading between the lines I
doubt it would pass building regs, if inspected - I doubt the water board
would be too happy either. Building regs says surface water can run into a
drainage system, whereby a rainwater drainage system: "carries the flow of
rainwater from the roof to an outfall (a soakaway, a watercourse, a surface
water or a combined sewer)...".

I suppose the biggest risk is the FW sewer overflowing in torrential rain.

Andy

Pecanfan wrote:
I know it's a mortal sin to connect FW to a SW drain, but how about the
other way around?
Cheers.



20+ years ago, you could apply for an "easement" to allow this on new
builds and alterations via building control. It wasn't automatically
allowed, but nor was it always rejected. I'm not sure what the
situation is now.


I suppose the biggest risk is the FW sewer overflowing in torrential rain.

Andy


That, and that it cost real money to 'clean up' the rainwater in the
sewage system. Hence your waterboard would rather it went somewhere
else. Quite reasonably IMHO. Thats not to say it is a viable option in
difficult circumstances like the OP describes.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:52:24 -0000, Pecanfan wrote:

I'm not an expert on such matters, but have been looking into similar things
myself recently. I can't see anything in building regs which specifically
says you CAN'T run SW to a FW drain, however reading between the lines I
doubt it would pass building regs, if inspected - I doubt the water board
would be too happy either. Building regs says surface water can run into a
drainage system, whereby a rainwater drainage system: "carries the flow of
rainwater from the roof to an outfall (a soakaway, a watercourse, a surface
water or a combined sewer)...".

I suppose the biggest risk is the FW sewer overflowing in torrential rain.

It is permissible, but only as a third choice, where the other options
aren't "reasonably practicable".
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_600283-05.hcsp#P1601_100217

Andrew Chesters wrote:

S lo wrote:

Is it OK to reroute 3/4 of my roof's rain water down the foul water pipe
instead of down the surface water pipe?

My top floor flat has a dual water drainage system - FW and SW.
It has a double roof with a valley gutter between them, and two
gutters at
the front and rear behind parapets.
Rain water from the centre valley and front gutters goes down drainpipes
inside my flat to the rear gutter and then it all goes through the
parapet
down to ground at the back of the building.

The pipes are enclosed in massive plasterboard box sections running the
length of the flat and are not only taking up lots of space, but develop
leaks occasionally. When this happens, it's a real task to open them up,
repair the leaks and then replaster and paint them.

The SW pipe goes right next to the FW pipe at the centre valley, and
draining the SW from centre and front roof planes into the FW would
mean I
could get rid of half of the pipe.

I know it's a mortal sin to connect FW to a SW drain, but how about the
other way around?
Cheers.


20+ years ago, you could apply for an "easement" to allow this on new
builds and alterations via building control. It wasn't automatically
allowed, but nor was it always rejected. I'm not sure what the
situation is now.

Its depreacted - most BCO's will not allow it. However some may. Its not
against regs per se, but it is a local issue.

Andrew

"S lo" wrote in message
...
Is it OK to reroute 3/4 of my roof's rain water down the foul water pipe
instead of down the surface water pipe?

My top floor flat has a dual water drainage system - FW and SW.
It has a double roof with a valley gutter between them, and two gutters at
the front and rear behind parapets.
Rain water from the centre valley and front gutters goes down drainpipes
inside my flat to the rear gutter and then it all goes through the parapet
down to ground at the back of the building.

The pipes are enclosed in massive plasterboard box sections running the
length of the flat and are not only taking up lots of space, but develop
leaks occasionally. When this happens, it's a real task to open them up,
repair the leaks and then replaster and paint them.

The SW pipe goes right next to the FW pipe at the centre valley, and
draining the SW from centre and front roof planes into the FW would mean I
could get rid of half of the pipe.

I know it's a mortal sin to connect FW to a SW drain, but how about the
other way around?
Cheers.



By your description of how this system has been plumbed, it would say that
the sewer system to your property is not to be used as a combine system for
both foul water and rain/surface drainage. Because of this, it sounds as
though you're stuck with trying to find another appropriate route for the
rain water system if you want to re-gain the space that it is taking up in
your flat.

A visit to your local council office to find out more info' of what is
possible might an idea though. You might get a surprise, you never know.

I'm not an expert on such matters, but have been looking into similar
things
myself recently. I can't see anything in building regs which
specifically
says you CAN'T run SW to a FW drain, however reading between the lines I
doubt it would pass building regs, if inspected - I doubt the water
board
would be too happy either. Building regs says surface water can run
into a
drainage system, whereby a rainwater drainage system: "carries the flow
of
rainwater from the roof to an outfall (a soakaway, a watercourse, a
surface
water or a combined sewer)...".

I suppose the biggest risk is the FW sewer overflowing in torrential
rain.

It is permissible, but only as a third choice, where the other options
aren't "reasonably practicable".

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...s/page/odpm_br
eg_600283-05.hcsp#P1601_100217

Is this not clarified by point b.i. below that though - where it qualifies a
sewer as "a surface water or a combined sewer" - i.e. no mention of a foul
water sewer, so therefore it wouldn't meet regs?

Andy

S lo wrote:

Is it OK to reroute 3/4 of my roof's rain water down the foul water pipe
instead of down the surface water pipe?



I'm intrigued by the replies. We have only FW sewers and, in theory,
soakaways (although I cannot find them). For various reasons I want to
re-route the disposal path of my surface water so asked the local
authority about discharging it into the FW system. A very firm 'under
no circumstances' was the reply. Reason being that the FW system is
designed to cope with only the FW and will not accommodate SW as well.
They also pointed me towards the relevant legislation which promised
very big fines (IIRC the maximum was £30K) for running SW into a FW
system - this was about 4 years ago and I'm afraid I cannot remember the
actual detail.

Richard

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