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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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12.99 battery drills in rober dyas
I spent 20 agonising minutes yesterday in the shop trying to work out
if a Bosch psr1440 for =A349 was better value than the unknown make drill for =A312.99. ( forget what it's called Ajo.. somthing) Anyway I went for the cheapo one and it seems ok. What specifically are you paying for with Bosch I wander ? ( Apart from the advertising and the extra battery ) I guess I could get 2 Ajo.. ones if I need a spare battery! Simon |
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#2
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#3
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:55:46 +0000, Grunff wrote:
This has really been done to death. The difference is very large indeed. In summary, your Ajo will have: - Crap batteries - Poor speed control - Much lower torque - Crap chuck - Battery charger which will batteries quickly They're the main points. Didn't the advertising standards authority recently do a study and concluded Lidl cordless drills were equivalent to Bosch but far cheaper? sPoNiX |
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#5
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- Crap batteries
possibly, although they were both NiCd cells, I would't be suprised if they are standard tagged cells that can be replaced. - Poor speed control I tried it this morning. it's got proper electronic, variable speed contol. Seems ok to my ( non expert) hands! - Much lower torque hmm, well I tried screwing a small woodscrew in, also you can't hold the chuck and stop it spinning. ( not that this is any test I guess ! ) - Crap chuck maybee.. If it works I suppose I don't care though since If it breaks / slips it goes back to the shop . |
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#6
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- Crap batteries
possibly, although they were both NiCd cells, I would't be suprised if they are standard tagged cells that can be replaced. Both battery packs seemed to weigh the same as well (?) - Poor speed control I tried it this morning. it's got proper electronic, variable speed control. Seems ok to my ( non expert) hands! - Much lower torque hmm, well I tried screwing a small woodscrew in, also you can't hold the chuck and stop it spinning. ( not that this is any test I guess ! ) - Crap chuck maybee.. If it works I suppose I don't care though since If it breaks / slips it goes back to the shop . - Battery charger which will batteries quickly It says 5 hr charge max.. although it's obviously a cheap and cheerful charger.. I don't know if batteries preffer being charged quickly or slowly anyway All things considered I guess you get what you pay for, it suprises me that they don't put some of these points on the packaging to enable people to compare . I'm quite happy with it though, considering what it cost and what I need it for. |
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#8
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wrote in message
ups.com... I spent 20 agonising minutes yesterday in the shop trying to work out if a Bosch psr1440 for £49 was better value than the unknown make drill for £12.99. ( forget what it's called Ajo.. somthing) Anyway I went for the cheapo one and it seems ok. What specifically are you paying for with Bosch I wander ? ( Apart from the advertising and the extra battery ) I guess I could get 2 Ajo.. ones if I need a spare battery! Simon I got a cheapie drill/driver from woollies yesterday for £9.99 - reduced from £30, I know it won't be great but it will be good to have kicking about. I can have my good drill in action and have that with a different size drill/driver bit in it. A good example is when building kitchen cabinets..... poor drill has pilot hole drill in it and the good drill has screwdriver bit. Paul |
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#9
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#11
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#12
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#13
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I might get the Bosch one as well anyway ( I'm like that )
;-) |
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#14
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#15
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In article .com,
wrote: possibly, although they were both NiCd cells, I would't be suprised if they are standard tagged cells that can be replaced. Both battery packs seemed to weigh the same as well (?) I'm afraid not all Ni-Cads are the same. Decent quality replacements are likely to cost more than the entire drill... -- *Atheism is a non-prophet organization. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#16
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Andy Dingley wrote:
Probably no different. A drill for £49 with a Bosch nametag on it is still pretty low-end. I'm afraid I don't agree at all. In addition to my lovely 18v Makita, I own 2 other cordless drills. One is a 10 year old Bosch 7.2v, the other is an 8 year old 14.4V StrongArm (what nuTool used to be). The Bosch still works. Battery life isn't what it used to be, but it's still useful. The StrongArm is all but useless, the battery capacity is next to nothing, the chuck is knackered and the forward/reverse switch doesn't stay in place. The Bosch cost me £60 back then, which was a lot of money for me as a poor student. The StrongArm was about £20. -- Grunff |
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#17
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wrote in message ups.com... I spent 20 agonising minutes yesterday in the shop trying to work out if a Bosch psr1440 for £49 was better value than the unknown make drill for £12.99. ( forget what it's called Ajo.. somthing) Anyway I went for the cheapo one and it seems ok. What specifically are you paying for with Bosch I wander ? ( Apart from the advertising and the extra battery ) I guess I could get 2 Ajo.. ones if I need a spare battery! Simon The cheap drills on the market can be quite adequate for occasional use, but if you are going to use them on a regular basis may not have the durability of say Makita or Bosch. We use drills of various types from SDS to Combi's day in day out, and in my experience Bosch or Makita seem to outlast everything else. We have used Dewalt in the past but find they are as unreliable as most of the cheap stuff. So if you want something that will last I would recommend you pay the extra for the Bosch. |
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#18
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"Kaiser" wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... I spent 20 agonising minutes yesterday in the shop trying to work out if a Bosch psr1440 for £49 was better value than the unknown make drill for £12.99. ( forget what it's called Ajo.. somthing) Anyway I went for the cheapo one and it seems ok. What specifically are you paying for with Bosch I wander ? ( Apart from the advertising and the extra battery ) I guess I could get 2 Ajo.. ones if I need a spare battery! Simon The cheap drills on the market can be quite adequate for occasional use, but if you are going to use them on a regular basis may not have the durability of say Makita or Bosch. We use drills of various types from SDS to Combi's day in day out, and in my experience Bosch or Makita seem to outlast everything else. We have used Dewalt in the past but find they are as unreliable as most of the cheap stuff. So if you want something that will last I would recommend you pay the extra for the Bosch. I have found Bosch unreliable. Makita is v good. I would rather have a Wickes (made by Kress) drill any time than Bosch or DeWalt. |
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#19
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"Grunff" wrote in message ... Andy Dingley wrote: Probably no different. A drill for £49 with a Bosch nametag on it is still pretty low-end. I'm afraid I don't agree at all. In addition to my lovely 18v Makita, I own 2 other cordless drills. One is a 10 year old Bosch 7.2v, the other is an 8 year old 14.4V StrongArm (what nuTool used to be). The Bosch still works. Battery life isn't what it used to be, but it's still useful. The StrongArm is all but useless, the battery capacity is next to nothing, the chuck is knackered and the forward/reverse switch doesn't stay in place. The Bosch cost me £60 back then, which was a lot of money for me as a poor student. The StrongArm was about £20. Seems the strong Arm was better value. |
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#20
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In article ,
Kaiser wrote: I have found Bosch unreliable. Makita is v good. I would rather have a Wickes (made by Kress) drill any time than Bosch or DeWalt. You must be in a minority, most sites I've worked on they use Bosch, Makita or Dewalt and occasionally Metabo power tools... don't think I've ever seen a Wickes drill on site. Yes. It's one of IMM's little foibles that he thinks real pros use cheap power tools. Each time I visit a building site - and I visit quite a few in connection with my work - I look out for them. Still looking. Of course they're all in London where perhaps the tradesman have more sense than those he says he works with. Indeed I'd say they'd have to be pretty misguided to let him anywhere near real work. -- *What boots up must come down * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#21
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:28:41 +0000, Grunff wrote:
The Bosch cost me £60 back then, which was a lot of money So it was more expensive, and also made 10 years ago ? How do you think it would stack up against a current Bosch ? My point is not that your drill isn;t a good one, but that a 40-something current Bosch isn't much to shout about. -- Smert' spamionam |
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#22
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"Kaiser" wrote
| "IMM" wrote | [snip dribble] | You must be in a minority, IMM usually is. | ... don't think I've ever seen a Wickes drill on site. How long d'you think IMM would last on site then? Owain |
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#23
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Kaiser wrote: I have found Bosch unreliable. Makita is v good. I would rather have a Wickes (made by Kress) drill any time than Bosch or DeWalt. You must be in a minority, most sites I've worked on they use Bosch, Makita or Dewalt and occasionally Metabo power tools... don't think I've ever seen a Wickes drill on site. Yes. It's snip drivel misinformation not worth reading |
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#24
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Andy Dingley wrote:
The Bosch cost me £60 back then, which was a lot of money So it was more expensive, and also made 10 years ago ? How do you think it would stack up against a current Bosch ? Good question. A while back, I bought an 18V green Bosch, which was definitely poor compared to the competition. That was ~£120. But I don't have any experience of lower priced current Bosch drills. My point is not that your drill isn;t a good one, but that a 40-something current Bosch isn't much to shout about. I'd still hope it would be a whole load better than the ultra cheapies. But maybe that isn't the case anymore. -- Grunff |
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#25
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"Kaiser" wrote in message ... "IMM" wrote in message ... "Kaiser" wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... I spent 20 agonising minutes yesterday in the shop trying to work out if a Bosch psr1440 for £49 was better value than the unknown make drill for £12.99. ( forget what it's called Ajo.. somthing) Anyway I went for the cheapo one and it seems ok. What specifically are you paying for with Bosch I wander ? ( Apart from the advertising and the extra battery ) I guess I could get 2 Ajo.. ones if I need a spare battery! Simon The cheap drills on the market can be quite adequate for occasional use, but if you are going to use them on a regular basis may not have the durability of say Makita or Bosch. We use drills of various types from SDS to Combi's day in day out, and in my experience Bosch or Makita seem to outlast everything else. We have used Dewalt in the past but find they are as unreliable as most of the cheap stuff. So if you want something that will last I would recommend you pay the extra for the Bosch. I have found Bosch unreliable. Makita is v good. I would rather have a Wickes (made by Kress) drill any time than Bosch or DeWalt. You must be in a minority, most sites I've worked on they use Bosch, Makita or Dewalt and occasionally Metabo power tools... don't think I've ever seen a Wickes drill on site. I have seen all those, and Wickes drills too. DeWalt are expensive crap. |
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#26
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I think we are all missing the point here. Big difference between
'made cheaply' and cheaply made'. We now have mass production, electronics, high grade plastics, JIT manufacturing, bulk purchasing and cheap oriental labour. Bosch etc used to make huge margins on power tools. I mea HUGE. Bosch sales reps used to have annual sales conferences in Spain, any car they wanted and open ended expense accounts. Now they meet in Watford, drive a basic Mondeo and have strict cost controls. I work for a multi national manufacturer of high pressure cleaners. Once we made chassis, heat exchangers, steel work etc in house in Denmark. Now the same 'non critical' components are made in Estonia, Bulgaria etc at approx 50% of the cost for exactly the same item. Rough guide IMO. If something is 90% cheaper, it probably is crap. If it's 50% cheaper it may well be exactly the same quality. Dave |
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#27
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I think we are all missing the point here. Big difference between
'made cheaply' and cheaply made'. We now have mass production, electronics, high grade plastics, JIT manufacturing, bulk purchasing and cheap oriental labour. Bosch etc used to make huge margins on power tools. I mea HUGE. Bosch sales reps used to have annual sales conferences in Spain, any car they wanted and open ended expense accounts. Now they meet in Watford, drive a basic Mondeo and have strict cost controls. I work for a multi national manufacturer of high pressure cleaners. Once we made chassis, heat exchangers, steel work etc in house in Denmark. Now the same 'non critical' components are made in Estonia, Bulgaria etc at approx 50% of the cost for exactly the same item. Rough guide IMO. If something is 90% cheaper, it probably is crap. If it's 50% cheaper it may well be exactly the same quality. Dave |
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#28
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , IMM wrote: You must be in a minority, most sites I've worked on they use Bosch, Makita or Dewalt and occasionally Metabo power tools... don't think I've ever seen a Wickes drill on site. I have seen all those, and Wickes drills too. DeWalt are expensive crap. Perhaps snip drivel Misinformation not worth reading |
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#29
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Kaiser wrote:
You must be in a minority, most sites I've worked on they use Bosch, Makita or Dewalt and occasionally Metabo power tools... don't think I've ever seen a Wickes drill on site. I recently bought a Metabo 12 volt cordless for just under £100, I chose this specifically because I needed a lot of torque for driving big (6mm x 100 and 8mm x 120) screws into fence posts. The Metabo was about the cheapest cordless I could find with torque at or around the 50nM area. It's the first 'professional' or 'non DIY/cheapie' cordless that I've bought. I already have an old Skil, a Ferm 24v 'combi' and a cheap 9.6 volt green Bosch. After having had the Metabo for a few months now and comparing it with the 'cheap' tools I have my thoughts are as follows:- It is better and nicer to use, but whether it's four times better (that's the price differential) I'm not sure. The speed control etc. is somewhat better but not really a huge amount different. The thing I really, really like about it is the 'one handed' chuck, brilliant! (The Bosch chuck is particularly bad) In general now if I take one cordless to a job it's the Metabo but having several is still very useful to avoid bit changes etc. If one needs something specific (like the high torque I wanted) then it may only be available in a more expensive 'professional' tool. -- Chris Green |
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#30
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"IMM" wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , IMM wrote: You must be in a minority, most sites I've worked on they use Bosch, Makita or Dewalt and occasionally Metabo power tools... don't think I've ever seen a Wickes drill on site. I have seen all those, and Wickes drills too. DeWalt are expensive crap. Perhaps snip drivel Misinformation not worth reading How can a *question* be "misinformation" ? [ Dave asked - "Perhaps you'd give details of a site you've seem where the tradesmen use domestic cheap tools? " ] I don't expect the moron who is IMM to answer that question, he will just snip it as drivel or 'misinformation' !.... |
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#31
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "IMM" wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , IMM wrote: You must be in a minority, most sites I've worked on they use Bosch, Makita or Dewalt and occasionally Metabo power tools... don't think I've ever seen a Wickes drill on site. I have seen all those, and Wickes drills too. DeWalt are expensive crap. Perhaps snip drivel Misinformation not worth reading How can a *question* be "misinformation" ? It is clear the question is drivel. |
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#32
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"IMM" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "IMM" wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , IMM wrote: You must be in a minority, most sites I've worked on they use Bosch, Makita or Dewalt and occasionally Metabo power tools... don't think I've ever seen a Wickes drill on site. I have seen all those, and Wickes drills too. DeWalt are expensive crap. Perhaps snip drivel Misinformation not worth reading How can a *question* be "misinformation" ? It is clear the question is drivel. [ Dave asked "Perhaps you'd give details of a site you've seem where the tradesmen use domestic cheap tools? ] It might or might not be, but how is a question "misinformation" ? A question is not information, only the answer is - perhaps the answer was going to be drivel ?.... |
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#33
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:00:38 GMT, (s--p--o--n--i--x) wrote: On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:59:06 GMT, (s--p--o--n--i--x) wrote: Didn't the advertising standards authority recently do a study and concluded Lidl cordless drills were equivalent to Bosch but far cheaper? My mistake..they compared Lidl and Bosch chainsaws. Their criteria for comparison were less than clear it seems. What was the criteria? |
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#34
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On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:25:56 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:00:38 GMT, (s--p--o--n--i--x) wrote: On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:59:06 GMT, (s--p--o--n--i--x) wrote: Didn't the advertising standards authority recently do a study and concluded Lidl cordless drills were equivalent to Bosch but far cheaper? My mistake..they compared Lidl and Bosch chainsaws. Their criteria for comparison were less than clear it seems. What was the criteria? A small subset of the features. However, B&Q didn't phrase their complaint very well and focussed on only four of the features not the whole product so it's partly their fault. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#35
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In article ,
:::Jerry:::: wrote: How can a *question* be "misinformation" ? It is clear the question is drivel. [ Dave asked "Perhaps you'd give details of a site you've seem where the tradesmen use domestic cheap tools? ] It might or might not be, but how is a question "misinformation" ? A question is not information, only the answer is - perhaps the answer was going to be drivel ?.... I'm afraid the obvious answer is IMM has made this up - yet again. A true pro will use pro tools. It may not matter to an amateur if his shed tools break down and have to be replaced - even for free. But it does to someone making their living out of them - they'd be the laughing stock of their colleagues. -- *Women like silent men; they think they're listening. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#36
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In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote: the last-but-one Fine Woodworking magazine had a very good multi-drill review of high and medium end drills Can you have a medium end? ;-) |
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#37
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You're probably getting a better drill with the Bosch but you'll
certainly be paying a premium for the name. |
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#38
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , :::Jerry:::: wrote: How can a *question* be "misinformation" ? It is clear the question is drivel. [ Dave asked "Perhaps you'd give details of a site you've seem where the tradesmen use domestic cheap tools? ] It might or might not be, but how is a question "misinformation" ? A question is not information, only the answer is - perhaps the answer was going to be drivel ?.... I'm afraid snip drivel Not worth reading.. |
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#39
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"IMM" wrote in message ... snip several attempts to get IMM to answer a simple question snip drivel Not worth reading.. I think we can all make up our minds just who is talking drivel.... |
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#40
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ... "IMM" wrote in message ... snip several attempts to get IMM to answer a simple question snip drivel Not worth reading.. I think we can all make up our minds just who is talking drivel.... I'm sure we can. |
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