I currently have a Y-Plan heating system. The pump and 3-port valve are both
in the airing cuboard with the 3-port valve sitting more or less on top of
the pump. The outlets from the 3-port valve - one to the coil in the
cylinder and the other to the radiators - are horizontal, and are level with
the top indirect coil connection, about half way up the cylinder.

The 3-port valve is showing its age and will soon need replacing. I would
like to convert to an S-Plan system by replacing the 3-port valve with two
2-port valves plus an automatic by-pass. I would also like to insert some
full-bore lever valves to make it easy to isolate each component for
maintenance.

I cannot do this without changing the layout somewhat. There is not enough
horizontal pipe either side of the 3-port valve (to be repaced by a tee) to
insert 2-port valves. So I would like to extend the pipework by a foot or so
above the current level, tee to 2 horizontal branches, and then come down
again vertically with a 2-port valve in each vertical drop. I would, of
course, put a vent pipe with bleed screw at the hightest point.

Can anyone see any problems with this?

TIA.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I currently have a Y-Plan heating system. The pump and 3-port valve are both
in the airing cuboard with the 3-port valve sitting more or less on top of
the pump. The outlets from the 3-port valve - one to the coil in the
cylinder and the other to the radiators - are horizontal, and are level with
the top indirect coil connection, about half way up the cylinder.

The 3-port valve is showing its age and will soon need replacing. I would
like to convert to an S-Plan system by replacing the 3-port valve with two
2-port valves plus an automatic by-pass. I would also like to insert some
full-bore lever valves to make it easy to isolate each component for
maintenance.

I cannot do this without changing the layout somewhat. There is not enough
horizontal pipe either side of the 3-port valve (to be repaced by a tee) to
insert 2-port valves. So I would like to extend the pipework by a foot or so
above the current level, tee to 2 horizontal branches, and then come down
again vertically with a 2-port valve in each vertical drop. I would, of
course, put a vent pipe with bleed screw at the hightest point.

Can anyone see any problems with this?

TIA.

Cheers,
Set Square


The fed to the coil in the cylinder doesn't really need to enter at the bottom
connector you know, so you could lift the branch from the pump higher and place
the zone valves on two different levels all together. That way you can keep the
branch to the rad' circuit where it is, and only swap round the heating coil so
it runs the other way. One TEE and a couple of elbows would do it.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
BigWallop wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I currently have a Y-Plan heating system. The pump and 3-port valve
are both in the airing cuboard with the 3-port valve sitting more or
less on top of the pump. The outlets from the 3-port valve - one to
the coil in the cylinder and the other to the radiators - are
horizontal, and are level with the top indirect coil connection,
about half way up the cylinder.

The 3-port valve is showing its age and will soon need replacing. I
would like to convert to an S-Plan system by replacing the 3-port
valve with two 2-port valves plus an automatic by-pass. I would also
like to insert some full-bore lever valves to make it easy to
isolate each component for maintenance.

I cannot do this without changing the layout somewhat. There is not
enough horizontal pipe either side of the 3-port valve (to be
repaced by a tee) to insert 2-port valves. So I would like to extend
the pipework by a foot or so above the current level, tee to 2
horizontal branches, and then come down again vertically with a
2-port valve in each vertical drop. I would, of course, put a vent
pipe with bleed screw at the hightest point.

Can anyone see any problems with this?

TIA.

Cheers,
Set Square


The feed to the coil in the cylinder doesn't really need to enter at
the bottom connector you know, so you could lift the branch from the
pump higher and place the zone valves on two different levels all
together.

It doesn't! The feed goes into the *top* connection - but this is only half
way up the cylinder. The return comes out of the bottom connection which is
only just above the floor.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
BigWallop wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I currently have a Y-Plan heating system. The pump and 3-port valve
are both in the airing cuboard with the 3-port valve sitting more or
less on top of the pump. The outlets from the 3-port valve - one to
the coil in the cylinder and the other to the radiators - are
horizontal, and are level with the top indirect coil connection,
about half way up the cylinder.

The 3-port valve is showing its age and will soon need replacing. I
would like to convert to an S-Plan system by replacing the 3-port
valve with two 2-port valves plus an automatic by-pass. I would also
like to insert some full-bore lever valves to make it easy to
isolate each component for maintenance.

I cannot do this without changing the layout somewhat. There is not
enough horizontal pipe either side of the 3-port valve (to be
repaced by a tee) to insert 2-port valves. So I would like to extend
the pipework by a foot or so above the current level, tee to 2
horizontal branches, and then come down again vertically with a
2-port valve in each vertical drop. I would, of course, put a vent
pipe with bleed screw at the hightest point.

Can anyone see any problems with this?

TIA.

Cheers,
Set Square


The feed to the coil in the cylinder doesn't really need to enter at
the bottom connector you know, so you could lift the branch from the
pump higher and place the zone valves on two different levels all
together.

It doesn't! The feed goes into the *top* connection - but this is only half
way up the cylinder. The return comes out of the bottom connection which is
only just above the floor.

Cheers,
Set Square


Ah ha !!! With you now. So you really to make a loop that sits behind the hot
water cylinder that will also act a by-pass loop for the whole system as well
then. What orientation is the pump in? If it's standing up on end, with the
inlet and outlet vertical, then you can still take a full loop of 22 mm copper
straight up and make a big loop that sits behind the cylinder. You then take
the indirect coil from a point along the riser pipe from the pump and connect it
to the top most end of the coil the same as it is now.

With another TEE below the one for the water coil, you fit another zone valve
for the central heating loop. One more TEE will take the return from the
by-pass loop behind the cylinder back to the point where the return from the hot
tank is now.

Would that work?

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I currently have a Y-Plan heating system. The pump and 3-port valve are
both
in the airing cuboard with the 3-port valve sitting more or less on top of
the pump. The outlets from the 3-port valve - one to the coil in the
cylinder and the other to the radiators - are horizontal, and are level
with
the top indirect coil connection, about half way up the cylinder.

The 3-port valve is showing its age and will soon need replacing. I would
like to convert to an S-Plan system by replacing the 3-port valve with two
2-port valves plus an automatic by-pass. I would also like to insert some
full-bore lever valves to make it easy to isolate each component for
maintenance.

I cannot do this without changing the layout somewhat. There is not enough
horizontal pipe either side of the 3-port valve (to be repaced by a tee)
to
insert 2-port valves. So I would like to extend the pipework by a foot or
so
above the current level, tee to 2 horizontal branches, and then come down
again vertically with a 2-port valve in each vertical drop. I would, of
course, put a vent pipe with bleed screw at the hightest point.

Can anyone see any problems with this?

- Take the flow from the boiler to the top of the airing cuboard and to the
open vent of the F&E tank.
- Tee off at the top of the airing cuopboard and take the pipe down (the
pump must be on this length half wat from the cylinder to the ceiling, as
this reduces pump niose).
- Directly after the tee insert another tee and take this to the cold feed
of the F&E tank.
- The two tees must be close together.
- The feed tee must be nearst to the pump.
- At the end of this downards length have a bend and insert the CH zone
valve.
- Tee off just before the bend and insert the DHW zone valve, then to the
top of the cylidner coil.

That is it. This is now self venting too and no need for manual air vents
and puim pnoise vastly reduced. More space for maintenance too. Insert the
pressure by-pass valve after the CH zone valve and it must be the last tee
into the boilers return. Sorted.

Use adpters for the pump, not adpters and isolation valves. Put a full bore
valve on:

- The flow just before the pump
- Just after the by-pass valve after the CH zone valve
- Just after the by-pass tee on the return.

Then with 3 valves you can isolate the cylinder, zone valbe, by -pass and
pump.

I would also like to insert some full-bore lever valves to make
it easy to isolate each component for maintenance.

I wouldn't bother. The "wet" part of a 2 port valve is usually pretty
reliable. I wouldn't be convinced that the isolation valves would be any
more so and there are 2 of those to go wrong!

Certainly, the replacement of the wet part of a 2 port valve is sufficiently
infrequently required that a drain down is not an issue.

Christian.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote:

I would also like to insert some full-bore lever valves to make
it easy to isolate each component for maintenance.

I wouldn't bother. The "wet" part of a 2 port valve is usually pretty
reliable. I wouldn't be convinced that the isolation valves would be
any more so and there are 2 of those to go wrong!

Certainly, the replacement of the wet part of a 2 port valve is
sufficiently infrequently required that a drain down is not an issue.

Christian.

Fair enough, but I still want full bore valves either side of the pump
rather than the existing gate valve adapters - so I still need to raise the
level of the tee above that of the existing 3-port valve. Even without
isolation valves, I still can't get 2-port valves on the horizontal pipes
either side of the tee.

So I still need to raise the pipework up higher and then come back down to
the upper inlet on the cylinder (which is about half-way up).

Is this a problem?

Another thing: IMM is telling me that the output from the by-pass valve
needs to last thing tee'd into the boiler return. Is this necessary? It
would be much easier to tee it into the HW return before it disappears under
the floorboards and joins up with the CH return somewhere or other. Is this
a problem - bearing in mind that the by-pass will only operate when both
zone valves are closed, so it can't make water flow backwards round the HW
circuit.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Fair enough, but I still want full bore valves either side of the pump
rather than the existing gate valve adapters -

You can get pump adapters with ball valves instead of gate valves. They
should be considerably more reliable.

Even without isolation valves, I still can't get 2-port valves on the
horizontal pipes either side of the tee.

Go up to the T and then put the valves on the "back down" section. Place a
bleed valve on the top of the loop. It is probably not necessary in use,
though, if sealed pressurised operation is used, as it covers a multitude of
installation sins. However you should still install the valve, in case it
does prove necessary to use it.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Fair enough, but I still want full bore valves either side of the pump
rather than the existing gate valve adapters -

You can get pump adapters with ball valves instead of gate valves. They
should be considerably more reliable.

I have found that most pump adapters and integrated ball valves can't hack
it. There are some good quality full bore versions around, but are
difficult to get hold of.

Even without isolation valves, I still can't get 2-port valves on the
horizontal pipes either side of the tee.


Just had another thought. Would it make it easier to install the DHW zone
valve on the cylinder return connection? There's no reason it has to be on
the flow side. Indeed, it will run 5-10C cooler on the return leg. The
radiator valve can still stay on the flow side or also be moved to the
return side provided no radiators have unusual return locations away from
the main trunk.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Even without isolation valves, I still can't get 2-port valves on the
horizontal pipes either side of the tee.


Just had another thought. Would it make it easier to install the DHW zone
valve on the cylinder return connection? There's no reason it has to be on
the flow side. Indeed, it will run 5-10C cooler on the return leg. The
radiator valve can still stay on the flow side or also be moved to the
return side provided no radiators have unusual return locations away from
the main trunk.

Christian.

What the hell are you all on about? Just do what I suggested. Easy, low
pump noises free flow, self venting, easy to isolate all parts in the airing
cupboard, etc.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Fair enough, but I still want full bore valves either side of the pump
rather than the existing gate valve adapters -

You can get pump adapters with ball valves instead of gate valves. They
should be considerably more reliable.

Are they ******** - just wait until you try to shut one off after about five
years. 9 out of 10 start leaking water around the spindle. I invariably
replace with gate valve type as they might weep a bit when the pump is
removed but at least a slight weep around the spindle can be dealt with by
nipping up the gland.

Arriving at a pump failure job late afternoon and realising the pump has
ball valve unions seriously depresses me!

Are they ******** - just wait until you try to shut one off after about
five
years. 9 out of 10 start leaking water around the spindle.

Strange. I've never seen a gate valve type actually work when required,
whilst the ball types have always been fine. A small sample size, I'll grant
you, though...

Christian.