We would like to install an electric power shower in our bathroom. The
location is on the wall of the cupboard where the hot water tank resides
with pipes right behind the wall and high wattage electric to the immersion
heater.

Would this be a major plumbing job? DIY able? If we got a Plumber in what
would the ball aprk cost be?

Ta

In message 2UKkc.18$XV3.1@newsfe1-win,
"Franglais" wrote:

We would like to install an electric power shower in our bathroom. The
location is on the wall of the cupboard where the hot water tank resides
with pipes right behind the wall and high wattage electric to the immersion
heater.

Would this be a major plumbing job? DIY able? If we got a Plumber in what
would the ball aprk cost be?


Do you mean a pumped shower (i.e. using stored hot water), or an
electrically heated shower?

Electrically speaking, in either case you will not be able to use the
supply to the immersion heater in order to feed the shower. The
immersion should be powered from its own circuit, probably be fused at
15A or 16A for a heater rated at perhaps 13A (3kW). In theory this would
allow you to attach a small load such as a shower pump, but the IEE
doesn't like it and specifically says that fixed heaters such as
immersions should be supplied from their own dedicated circuits. The
supply to a pump is quite small however and can quite properly be taken
from a spur on your sockets circuit.

If you mean an electrically heated shower then these take a *lot* more
power than an immersion heater and are fed from their own dedicated
circuit, usually rated between 30A (7kW) and 45A (10kW). They must also
be fed via an RCD.

In the case of a shower pump, the electrical work is relatively easy and
probably quite minor assuming the ring circuit isn't too far away from
the location of the pump. In the case of an electrically heated shower
the need to run a hefty bit of cable (6mmsq or 10mmsq) and to provide a
suitable supply will make the electrical work much more onerous.

As for the plumbing, electrically heated showers just need a good cold
feed. Pumped showers may need a bit more, but plumbing isn't my strong
point. There have been several threads here *very* recently (in the last
fortnight or so) containing advice on this issue - search for "essex
flange" and you should turn up several interesting discussions.

HTH

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... I worked in a petshop and people kept asking how big I'll get.

Martin Angove wrote in message ...
search for "essex flange" and you should turn up several interesting
discussions.

Especially if you don't restrict your search to uk.d-i-y !!! ;-)

"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
In message 2UKkc.18$XV3.1@newsfe1-win,
"Franglais" wrote:

We would like to install an electric power shower in our bathroom. The
location is on the wall of the cupboard where the hot water tank resides
with pipes right behind the wall and high wattage electric to the
immersion
heater.

Would this be a major plumbing job? DIY able? If we got a Plumber in
what
would the ball aprk cost be?

£150 - £300

Do you mean a pumped shower (i.e. using stored hot water), or an
electrically heated shower?

Electrically speaking, in either case you will not be able to use the
supply to the immersion heater in order to feed the shower. The
immersion should be powered from its own circuit, probably be fused at
15A or 16A for a heater rated at perhaps 13A (3kW). In theory this would
allow you to attach a small load such as a shower pump, but the IEE
doesn't like it and specifically says that fixed heaters such as
immersions should be supplied from their own dedicated circuits. The
supply to a pump is quite small however and can quite properly be taken
from a spur on your sockets circuit.

If you mean an electrically heated shower then these take a *lot* more
power than an immersion heater and are fed from their own dedicated
circuit, usually rated between 30A (7kW) and 45A (10kW). They must also
be fed via an RCD.

In the case of a shower pump, the electrical work is relatively easy and
probably quite minor assuming the ring circuit isn't too far away from
the location of the pump. In the case of an electrically heated shower
the need to run a hefty bit of cable (6mmsq or 10mmsq) and to provide a
suitable supply will make the electrical work much more onerous.

Either will require the supply to be protected by an RCD.


As for the plumbing, electrically heated showers just need a good cold
feed. Pumped showers may need a bit more, but plumbing isn't my strong
point. There have been several threads here *very* recently (in the last
fortnight or so) containing advice on this issue - search for "essex
flange" and you should turn up several interesting discussions.

If your cold water storage tank is in the attic a floor or so above the HW
cylinder you probably don't need an Essex (or other type of) flange but can
simply take your hot water feed from the pipework low down e.g. tee off from
the feed to the hot tap of the bath or basin. The cold water supply will
need to be from the tank in the attic too and if there isn't currently a
tapping on that tank for this (i.e. if the bath's cold supply is direct from
the mains) then you'll need to arrange the supply from a separate tapping on
the tank. This tapping should be an inch or so lower than that feeding the
hot water cylinder, but still a couple of inches above the bottom of the
tank. You may have to swap over the hot and (new) cold tappings to achieve
this.

It's not a major plumbing job, but can be a bit fiddly. 'DIY-able' depends
on your skills, resources and experience: if you've only ever put up shelves
you'll probably have trouble, if you've fitted a WC or changed taps at the
back of a sink or bath you'll probaly find it OK.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message news:85emc.201$oQ4.71@newsfe1-win...
"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
In message 2UKkc.18$XV3.1@newsfe1-win,
"Franglais" wrote:

We would like to install an electric power shower in our bathroom. The
location is on the wall of the cupboard where the hot water tank resides
with pipes right behind the wall and high wattage electric to the
immersion
heater.

Would this be a major plumbing job? DIY able? If we got a Plumber in
what
would the ball aprk cost be?

£150 - £300

Do you mean a pumped shower (i.e. using stored hot water), or an
electrically heated shower?

Electrically speaking, in either case you will not be able to use the
supply to the immersion heater in order to feed the shower. The
immersion should be powered from its own circuit, probably be fused at
15A or 16A for a heater rated at perhaps 13A (3kW). In theory this would
allow you to attach a small load such as a shower pump, but the IEE
doesn't like it and specifically says that fixed heaters such as
immersions should be supplied from their own dedicated circuits. The
supply to a pump is quite small however and can quite properly be taken
from a spur on your sockets circuit.

If you mean an electrically heated shower then these take a *lot* more
power than an immersion heater and are fed from their own dedicated
circuit, usually rated between 30A (7kW) and 45A (10kW). They must also
be fed via an RCD.

In the case of a shower pump, the electrical work is relatively easy and
probably quite minor assuming the ring circuit isn't too far away from
the location of the pump. In the case of an electrically heated shower
the need to run a hefty bit of cable (6mmsq or 10mmsq) and to provide a
suitable supply will make the electrical work much more onerous.

Either will require the supply to be protected by an RCD.

Does it say that in the regs?

MBQ

In message ,
(MBQ) wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote in message news:85emc.201$oQ4.71@newsfe1-win...
"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...

[big snip]

If you mean an electrically heated shower then these take a *lot* more
power than an immersion heater and are fed from their own dedicated
circuit, usually rated between 30A (7kW) and 45A (10kW). They must also
be fed via an RCD.

In the case of a shower pump, the electrical work is relatively easy and
probably quite minor assuming the ring circuit isn't too far away from
the location of the pump. In the case of an electrically heated shower
the need to run a hefty bit of cable (6mmsq or 10mmsq) and to provide a
suitable supply will make the electrical work much more onerous.

Either will require the supply to be protected by an RCD.

Does it say that in the regs?


It depends :-)

Electrically heated showers are fixed electrical appliances in the zones
(zone 1 usually) and therefore must be supplied via an RCD.

Electrically pumped showers *may* be in the zones - where the pump is
part of the wall unit / mixer - or may be completely outside the zones
as in the case of a separate pump in (for example) the airing cupboard
with only the tap/mixer inside the shower. In the former case the supply
must be via RCD, in the latter case it isn't necessary.

Note that in the case of a pumped shower where the supply for the pump
is a fused spur from a sockets circuit, there may already be a suitable
RCD on the sockets circuit and no additional device is needed.

If you've never heard of bathroom zoning, there have been discussions on
this group about it several times, try a search.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... Does Windows 3.1 come with a Hard Drive?

According to my on site guide, Zone 1 SELV allowed, Water heaters, showers,
shower pumps allowed. other fixed equipment that can not reasonably be
located elsewhere allowed if protected by a 30mA RCD.

loz34

"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
In message ,
(MBQ) wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news:85emc.201$oQ4.71@newsfe1-win...
"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...

[big snip]

If you mean an electrically heated shower then these take a *lot*
more
power than an immersion heater and are fed from their own dedicated
circuit, usually rated between 30A (7kW) and 45A (10kW). They must
also
be fed via an RCD.

In the case of a shower pump, the electrical work is relatively easy
and
probably quite minor assuming the ring circuit isn't too far away
from
the location of the pump. In the case of an electrically heated
shower
the need to run a hefty bit of cable (6mmsq or 10mmsq) and to
provide a
suitable supply will make the electrical work much more onerous.

Either will require the supply to be protected by an RCD.

Does it say that in the regs?


It depends :-)

Electrically heated showers are fixed electrical appliances in the zones
(zone 1 usually) and therefore must be supplied via an RCD.

Electrically pumped showers *may* be in the zones - where the pump is
part of the wall unit / mixer - or may be completely outside the zones
as in the case of a separate pump in (for example) the airing cupboard
with only the tap/mixer inside the shower. In the former case the supply
must be via RCD, in the latter case it isn't necessary.

Note that in the case of a pumped shower where the supply for the pump
is a fused spur from a sockets circuit, there may already be a suitable
RCD on the sockets circuit and no additional device is needed.

If you've never heard of bathroom zoning, there have been discussions on
this group about it several times, try a search.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
... Does Windows 3.1 come with a Hard Drive?

Martin Angove wrote in message ...
In message ,
(MBQ) wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote in message news:85emc.201$oQ4.71@newsfe1-win...
"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...

[big snip]

If you mean an electrically heated shower then these take a *lot* more
power than an immersion heater and are fed from their own dedicated
circuit, usually rated between 30A (7kW) and 45A (10kW). They must also
be fed via an RCD.

In the case of a shower pump, the electrical work is relatively easy and
probably quite minor assuming the ring circuit isn't too far away from
the location of the pump. In the case of an electrically heated shower
the need to run a hefty bit of cable (6mmsq or 10mmsq) and to provide a
suitable supply will make the electrical work much more onerous.

Either will require the supply to be protected by an RCD.

Does it say that in the regs?


It depends :-)

Electrically heated showers are fixed electrical appliances in the zones
(zone 1 usually) and therefore must be supplied via an RCD.

Electrically pumped showers *may* be in the zones - where the pump is
part of the wall unit / mixer - or may be completely outside the zones
as in the case of a separate pump in (for example) the airing cupboard
with only the tap/mixer inside the shower. In the former case the supply
must be via RCD, in the latter case it isn't necessary.

Note that in the case of a pumped shower where the supply for the pump
is a fused spur from a sockets circuit, there may already be a suitable
RCD on the sockets circuit and no additional device is needed.

If you've never heard of bathroom zoning, there have been discussions on
this group about it several times, try a search.


I understand the principle of zoning.

I was questioning the emphatic "will require". Your answer clarifies
that it should be "may require" depending on circumstances.

MBQ