Hi,

Does anyone know if building regulations requires you to have a hand
rail/banister or wall on both sides of a staircase?
As i have just removed a stud wall separating our stairs from another
room and now it is an open gap (which we would like to keep this way).
The other wall still exists and has a hand rail.
How do I contact someone from buildling regulations to come and
inspect it and does it cost anything?

Thanks,
Muse, UK

"Muse" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

Does anyone know if building regulations requires you to have a hand
rail/banister or wall on both sides of a staircase?
As i have just removed a stud wall separating our stairs from another
room and now it is an open gap (which we would like to keep this way).
The other wall still exists and has a hand rail.
How do I contact someone from buildling regulations to come and
inspect it and does it cost anything?

Thanks,
Muse, UK

I think staircases are covered by part K...

[looks at odpm website]

have a look at this:-

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...ents/page/odpm
_breg_600500.pdf

(http://tinyurl.com/2p7zl)

Neil

As i have just removed a stud wall separating our stairs from another
room and now it is an open gap (which we would like to keep this way).
The other wall still exists and has a hand rail.

This is absolutely not acceptable. It may result in severe liability
judgements if a visitor or child is hurt.

There are two issues here, handrails and guarding. You only need 2 handrails
if the stairs are more than 1 metre wide, which is probably not the case.
However, you need guarding if there is a drop greater than 600mm. This is
clearly needed. Generally the guarding would incorporate a handrail. So, in
summary, you can get away with one handrail, but it has to be on the room
side, not the wall side.

The guarding will consist of a handrail at between 900mm and 1000mm from the
tread. Beneath this rail must be guarded such that no object (sphere) of
100mm could be inserted through it. This is to stop babies and children
crawling through and being trapped or falling to their death. The
construction must be difficult to climb for a young child. This basically
means you may not use horizontal rails. You can use vertical banisters,
rails angled with the stair rising, or a solid wall.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
As i have just removed a stud wall separating our stairs from another
room and now it is an open gap (which we would like to keep this way).
The other wall still exists and has a hand rail.

This is absolutely not acceptable. It may result in severe liability
judgements if a visitor or child is hurt.

There are two issues here, handrails and guarding. You only need 2
handrails
if the stairs are more than 1 metre wide, which is probably not the case.
However, you need guarding if there is a drop greater than 600mm. This is
clearly needed. Generally the guarding would incorporate a handrail. So,
in
summary, you can get away with one handrail, but it has to be on the room
side, not the wall side.

The guarding will consist of a handrail at between 900mm and 1000mm from
the
tread. Beneath this rail must be guarded such that no object (sphere) of
100mm could be inserted through it. This is to stop babies and children
crawling through and being trapped or falling to their death. The
construction must be difficult to climb for a young child. This basically
means you may not use horizontal rails. You can use vertical banisters,
rails angled with the stair rising, or a solid wall.

What about those complicated wrought iron swirls which just ASK to be
climbed?

Our children couldn't and our grandchildren can't be kept from climbing on
and sliding down our banister. Not could I when I visited my aunt who lived
in this house (when I ws a child). We panelled the banisters for a short
while but the children couldn't grip with their legs and didn't feel safe so
we removed them. They looked awful anyway and prevented light from reaching
the hall. That was potentially dangerous.

I'm sure the regs are felt to be essential by those who make them but where
do you stop? I've been in houses with kiddie-safe gates at top and bottom of
stairs - when the youngest child was five. I tripped on the frame of the
gate, that was potentially dangerous.

We should all live on one level?

Mary

Christian.

What about those complicated wrought iron swirls which just ASK to be
climbed?

That's between you and the BCO. Make sure you put the kettle on before
he/she arrives.

Our children couldn't and our grandchildren can't be kept from
climbing on and sliding down our banister.

Sounds fantastic. When do I get an invite? ;-)

I'm sure the regs are felt to be essential by those who make them but
where do you stop? I've been in houses with kiddie-safe gates at top
and bottom of stairs - when the youngest child was five.

Ouch. I would say 6 months to around the 3 year mark might be more
reasonable, myself, depending very much on the individuals involved, of
course.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
What about those complicated wrought iron swirls which just ASK to be
climbed?

That's between you and the BCO. Make sure you put the kettle on before
he/she arrives.

I don't have them (I wish!) No, I see them in lots of public places, museums
especially.

Our children couldn't and our grandchildren can't be kept from
climbing on and sliding down our banister.

Sounds fantastic. When do I get an invite? ;-)

I'm here most of the time. But it's too short to be a thrill when you're
big, I don't do it any more.

I'm sure the regs are felt to be essential by those who make them but
where do you stop? I've been in houses with kiddie-safe gates at top
and bottom of stairs - when the youngest child was five.

Ouch. I would say 6 months to around the 3 year mark might be more
reasonable, myself, depending very much on the individuals involved, of
course.

The trip factor is still there ... :-(

Mary

The trip factor is still there ... :-(

You can buy types without a trip bar. Indeed, I regard this as an essential
feature, especially at the top of the stairs.

Christian.

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...

What about those complicated wrought iron swirls which just ASK to be
climbed?

That's between you and the BCO. Make sure you put the kettle on before
he/she arrives.


I don't have them (I wish!) No, I see them in lots of public places, museums
especially.

Our children couldn't and our grandchildren can't be kept from
climbing on and sliding down our banister.

Sounds fantastic. When do I get an invite? ;-)


I'm here most of the time. But it's too short to be a thrill when you're
big, I don't do it any more.

I'm sure the regs are felt to be essential by those who make them but
where do you stop? I've been in houses with kiddie-safe gates at top
and bottom of stairs - when the youngest child was five.

Ouch. I would say 6 months to around the 3 year mark might be more
reasonable, myself, depending very much on the individuals involved, of
course.


The trip factor is still there ... :-(


Actually, single runs of more than a flor are deprecated, if not
disallowed I think.

The ideal staircase is short flights, landings and a change in direction.

Having climmbed the pyramid at Chichen Itza, with about 40 lbs of camera
equipment and only a rope to hold onto, with the pitch and step size
well outside regulations, I can only say I agree with the regs. Second
time I went there She refused to climb em, and, having done so once, I
didn't bother either.



Mary

Christian McArdle wrote:

There are two issues here, handrails and guarding. You only need 2 handrails
if the stairs are more than 1 metre wide, which is probably not the case.
However, you need guarding if there is a drop greater than 600mm. This is
clearly needed. Generally the guarding would incorporate a handrail. So, in
summary, you can get away with one handrail, but it has to be on the room
side, not the wall side.

The guarding will consist of a handrail at between 900mm and 1000mm from the
tread. Beneath this rail must be guarded such that no object (sphere) of
100mm could be inserted through it. This is to stop babies and children
crawling through and being trapped or falling to their death. The
construction must be difficult to climb for a young child. This basically
means you may not use horizontal rails. You can use vertical banisters,
rails angled with the stair rising, or a solid wall.

How is it that so many "designer" homes, often of the type shown
on TV or in the glossies, completely ignore these requirements?
I've lost count of the number of times I have had a dig in the
ribs from SWMBO for muttering *Building Regs" on seeing them.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

How is it that so many "designer" homes, often of the type shown
on TV or in the glossies, completely ignore these requirements?

I know. They either don't get certificates, remove them after the
certificate or bribe the BCO.

Christian.

How is it that so many "designer" homes, often of the type shown
on TV or in the glossies, completely ignore these requirements?

The do look the business sometimes...
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mark.orme/stairs.html
I'm sure any 10 year old would happily take up the challenge to jump to the
sofa. Risk management IMO is an essential part of child development.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

"Toby" wrote in message
...
How is it that so many "designer" homes, often of the type shown
on TV or in the glossies, completely ignore these requirements?

The do look the business sometimes...
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mark.orme/stairs.html

Oh nice :-)

I'm sure any 10 year old would happily take up the challenge to jump to
the
sofa. Risk management IMO is an essential part of child development.

I couldn't agree more.

Mary

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
How is it that so many "designer" homes, often of the type shown
on TV or in the glossies, completely ignore these requirements?
I've lost count of the number of times I have had a dig in the
ribs from SWMBO for muttering *Building Regs" on seeing them.

Too true. We'd love to do something like these, often new-built properties
and therefore definitely seen by a BCO but my BCO even measures the
head-height to a half mm !

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:20:59 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
Chris J Dixon randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

How is it that so many "designer" homes, often of the type shown
on TV or in the glossies, completely ignore these requirements?
I've lost count of the number of times I have had a dig in the
ribs from SWMBO for muttering *Building Regs" on seeing them.

I do the same (although the only SWMBO is the cat, and she isn't
really paying attention).

Ironically, you CAN rip out a stair, guarding and all in an existing
dwelling without having to replace it with anything which is no worse
than the existing, and not fall foul of the Building Regulations.
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

Hugo Nebula wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:20:59 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
Chris J Dixon randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:


How is it that so many "designer" homes, often of the type shown
on TV or in the glossies, completely ignore these requirements?
I've lost count of the number of times I have had a dig in the
ribs from SWMBO for muttering *Building Regs" on seeing them.


I do the same (although the only SWMBO is the cat, and she isn't
really paying attention).

Ironically, you CAN rip out a stair, guarding and all in an existing
dwelling without having to replace it with anything which is no worse
than the existing, and not fall foul of the Building Regulations.


I am not at all sure that is true. If making a 'material alteration' you
are required to esnure that the alteration is to standards. If you
merely repair iot, then thats true. But putting a new staircase in - it
HAS to comply IMHO.

Staircase design was the biggest bugbear of my house in fact. I had to
move the fireplaces off center to accomodate the main one. The second
staircase going up to a low half storey under the eaves could only go up
the house center, to meet height requirements, and ended up as a virtual
spiral. You can bend the rules to breaking point with a slightly narrow
staircase that winds. It uses the absolute miniumum of floor area.

It seems that you can have plenty of low ceilings in rooms, but not in
staircases :-)

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:37:25 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named The
Natural Philosopher randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

I am not at all sure that is true. If making a 'material alteration' you
are required to esnure that the alteration is to standards.

An alteration is only material if it adversely affects a Relevant
Requirement (currently Part A- structure, Part B- fire safety and Part
M- access & facilities for disabled people), or a controlled service
or fitting (drainage and waste disposal, combustion appliances, and
for dwellings, replacement windows or central heating boilers,
vessels, etc). Part K is not a relevant requirement, so if the work
consists wholly of replacing a stair, it is not controlled.

If it is being altered as part of other work (an extension or
structural alteration) then it should be made no worse than
previously.
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

"Christian McArdle" wrote
| As i have just removed a stud wall separating our stairs from
| another room and now it is an open gap (which we would like
| to keep this way).
| The other wall still exists and has a hand rail.
| There are two issues here, handrails and guarding.

Third issue - protection of the staircase in the event of fire?

Guarding might be met with a glass bannister.

As an aside, I have come across an increasing number of staircases and
walkways which are not (visually) 'solid'. In one building, the walkways are
metal grille and the sides are a mix of tensioned wires and glass. The lift
is also glass. In another (actually a bridge) the sides are of clear glass
with no top rail.

I wonder whether there is any consideration given under Part M (as it is in
E&W) and the Disability Discrimination Act towards vertigo sufferers? I have
a friend who suffers from vertigo and she finds this type of building
extremely difficult to use. In one case she has to have a porter accompany
here from one side of a library to another because of the walkway
construction. These are all recent public buildings so should comply with
any regs going.

Owain