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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Pulling the electric co's fuse...
I'm shortly going to be tackling a rewiring job (before Part b*******y P
comes in!) and will need to replace the CU (or rather, install one - the current system has about five separately switched circuits all wired in to the meter via Henley blocks). Unfortunately, although the electric co replaced the meter last week (changed from economy 7), they didn't fit a main isolator switch, which I find bizarre and would have thought was almost negligent under the circumstances, but there we go... anyway, I'll probably start by fitting an isolator switch to the existing system, for which I will need to yank the fuse. I'm not unduly worried about doing this, but never having done it before, or seen it done, I don't want want to make a boo-boo. Is it just a case of ensuring there's no load on any of the circuits, and then, well, just pulling the fuse out with insulated pliers or something? Anything to watch out for, or to be aware of!? I gather from the uk.d-i-y archives that Breaking the Electric Company Seal is not an issue! Thanks David |
#2
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:24:43 GMT, "Lobster"
wrote: I'm not unduly worried about doing this, but never having done it before, or seen it done, I don't want want to make a boo-boo. Is it just a case of ensuring there's no load on any of the circuits, and then, well, just pulling the fuse out with insulated pliers or something? Anything to watch out for, or to be aware of!? I gather from the uk.d-i-y archives that Breaking the Electric Company Seal is not an issue! Thanks David Just ensure that there is no load and pull it out,thats it,done... |
#3
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"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message
news On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:24:43 GMT, "Lobster" wrote: I'm not unduly worried about doing this, but never having done it before, or seen it done, I don't want want to make a boo-boo. Is it just a case of ensuring there's no load on any of the circuits, and then, well, just pulling the fuse out with insulated pliers or something? Anything to watch out for, or to be aware of!? I gather from the uk.d-i-y archives that Breaking the Electric Company Seal is not an issue! Thanks David Just ensure that there is no load and pull it out,thats it,done... Sometimes you have to give them a good tug though, and just remember the bottom terminal of the fuse holder is still live! Alex |
#4
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, tarquinlinbin wrote:
I'm not unduly worried about doing this, but never having done it before, or seen it done, I don't want want to make a boo-boo. Is it just a case of ensuring there's no load on any of the circuits, and then, well, just pulling the fuse out with insulated pliers or something? Anything to watch out for, or to be aware of!? I gather from the uk.d-i-y archives that Breaking the Electric Company Seal is not an issue! Just ensure that there is no load and pull it out,thats it,done... yup, and no need for insulated pliers either, assuming you have the standard type with a large lump of plastic attached. Just remember that one of the terminals exposed will be live. It is usually rather badly shrouded - it would be easy to stick your whole finger in there, and is probably fused at hunreds an hunreds of amps. -- Alistair Riddell - BOFH Microsoft - because god hates us |
#5
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:05:27 +0000, Alex (YMG) wrote:
"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message news On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:24:43 GMT, "Lobster" wrote: I'm not unduly worried about doing this, but never having done it before, or seen it done, I don't want want to make a boo-boo. Is it just a case of ensuring there's no load on any of the circuits, and then, well, just pulling the fuse out with insulated pliers or something? Anything to watch out for, or to be aware of!? I gather from the uk.d-i-y archives that Breaking the Electric Company Seal is not an issue! Thanks David Just ensure that there is no load and pull it out,thats it,done... Sometimes you have to give them a good tug though, and just remember the bottom terminal of the fuse holder is still live! And only protected by a VERY big fuse at the substation. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html |
#6
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:35:05 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:
And only protected by a VERY big fuse at the substation. Sometimes also a 300A fuse in a link box in the street. When they go bang, it's spectacular - usually invoving nearby hedges catching fire... Timbo -- Tim Southerwood Website: http://www.dionic.net/ |
#7
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In article ,
Lobster wrote: Is it just a case of ensuring there's no load on any of the circuits, and then, well, just pulling the fuse out with insulated pliers or something? Don't use pliers, etc, you might well break the fuse carrier. Fingers will do. -- *If we weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made of meat? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:05:27 GMT, "Alex \(YMG\)"
wrote: Just ensure that there is no load and pull it out,thats it,done... Sometimes you have to give them a good tug though, and just remember the bottom terminal of the fuse holder is still live! Alex When I watched the man change my meter he slipped a protective blank over the bottom terminal. As such a thing would be next to impossible to obtain, anybody any ideas on a home made one? MJ |
#9
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wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:05:27 GMT, "Alex \(YMG\)" wrote: Just ensure that there is no load and pull it out,thats it,done... Sometimes you have to give them a good tug though, and just remember the bottom terminal of the fuse holder is still live! Alex When I watched the man change my meter he slipped a protective blank over the bottom terminal. As such a thing would be next to impossible to obtain, anybody any ideas on a home made one? MJ Take the cartridge fuse out of the holder and put the holder back in. This protects the whole mains part of the headend to stop anything from getting in. |
#11
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In article ,
wrote: When I watched the man change my meter he slipped a protective blank over the bottom terminal. As such a thing would be next to impossible to obtain, anybody any ideas on a home made one? Stretch some gaffer tape over the body if you are really that worried. -- He who laughs last, thinks slowest. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#12
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In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes: When I recently changed my CU - which also involved a fair bit of 'building' work after removing the old one and meter etc - I wired in a gash 13 amp RCD twin socket direct to the header for lights and a drill. So I stole some electricity... I have done this by reconnecting the tails to the old CU after removing it (make sure connectors at other end are tight too), and wiring a temporary socket to one of the fuse ways. This requires that the tails enter the CU on the surface with enough slack and not from the rear. Next time round, I bought an electric drill first. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#13
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In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote: When I recently changed my CU - which also involved a fair bit of 'building' work after removing the old one and meter etc - I wired in a gash 13 amp RCD twin socket direct to the header for lights and a drill. So I stole some electricity... I have done this by reconnecting the tails to the old CU after removing it (make sure connectors at other end are tight too), and wiring a temporary socket to one of the fuse ways. This requires that the tails enter the CU on the surface with enough slack and not from the rear. To clarify, my riser and header are in the cellar, but the meter and fusebox at the top of the cellar stairs. The SWA cable between them was routed the easiest way rather than the neatest, and I wanted to sort this too. The meter board mounted on brick had got an ancient fuse, couple of henly blocks, extra switch fuse for the cooker, and looked a real mess. I dry lined that part of the wall and concealed all the cables. Next time round, I bought an electric drill first. Presume you mean cordless? I've got several of those, but wanted good lighting, as there's little natural light there. -- *Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#14
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:43:01 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
strung together this: When I recently changed my CU - which also involved a fair bit of 'building' work after removing the old one and meter etc - I wired in a gash 13 amp RCD twin socket direct to the header for lights and a drill. We used to do this on building sites to avoid having to struggle with the genny. Once all of the other trades, most of whom couldn't wire a plug, on the site cottoned onto the idea there were some 'interesting' alternatives to our relatively safe method(!) of doing it. After that the leccy board started sealing the cutouts up once they were fitted and covering them with tape, labels, notices, seals and whatever else they had in the back of the van! -- SJW A.C.S. Ltd Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject |
#15
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In article ,
Lurch wrote: We used to do this on building sites to avoid having to struggle with the genny. Once all of the other trades, most of whom couldn't wire a plug, on the site cottoned onto the idea there were some 'interesting' alternatives to our relatively safe method(!) of doing it. After that the leccy board started sealing the cutouts up once they were fitted and covering them with tape, labels, notices, seals and whatever else they had in the back of the van! Yes - it's rather open to abuse. ;-) I had made tentative arrangements to just run an extension from a neighbour's house, but was worried about leaving it overnight. My heating can run off a car battery, and I've got a portable radio so I'd not come to any harm for a day - even without any mains electricity. ;-) As it happens, having pre-fabricated as much as I could, I only had things disconnected for a few hours. -- *If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#16
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In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes: In article , Andrew Gabriel wrote: Next time round, I bought an electric drill first. Presume you mean cordless? Yes;-) lighting, as there's little natural light there. I have a 15 year old 7Ah SLA battery (was pensioned off from an alarm system years ago), which still seems to have all it's original capacity. I use it to operate a 12V fluorescent lamp for such purposes. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#17
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...
In article , Lobster wrote: Is it just a case of ensuring there's no load on any of the circuits, and then, well, just pulling the fuse out with insulated pliers or something? Don't use pliers, etc, you might well break the fuse carrier. Fingers will do. from the ERG39 course advice also wear a full facial visor and insulated gloves when removing the RECs fuse carrier from the cutout. The board also had leather patches used to cover over the exposed live terminal inside the cutout whilst working. Jon. |
#18
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"Lobster" wrote in message ... I'm shortly going to be tackling a rewiring job (before Part b*******y P comes in!) and will need to replace the CU (or rather, install one - the current system has about five separately switched circuits all wired in to the meter via Henley blocks). Unfortunately, although the electric co replaced the meter last week (changed from economy 7), they didn't fit a main isolator switch, which I find bizarre and would have thought was almost negligent under the circumstances, but there we go... anyway, I'll probably start by fitting an isolator switch to the existing system, for which I will need to yank the fuse. I'm not unduly worried about doing this, but never having done it before, or seen it done, I don't want want to make a boo-boo. Is it just a case of ensuring there's no load on any of the circuits, and then, well, just pulling the fuse out with insulated pliers or something? Anything to watch out for, or to be aware of!? I gather from the uk.d-i-y archives that Breaking the Electric Company Seal is not an issue! Try pulling the fuse without cutting the seal first. I managed to get it out far enough on the slack in the seal to cut the circuit. But obviously make sure you don't lean on it and push it back in whilst holding a live end. |
#19
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wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:05:27 GMT, "Alex \(YMG\)" wrote: Just ensure that there is no load and pull it out,thats it,done... Sometimes you have to give them a good tug though, and just remember the bottom terminal of the fuse holder is still live! Alex When I watched the man change my meter he slipped a protective blank over the bottom terminal. As such a thing would be next to impossible to obtain, anybody any ideas on a home made one? MJ Very easy to obtain. www.insulatedtools.co.uk part no 03080 or 03081 about £3 each plus vat and delivery |
#20
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When I watched the man change my meter he slipped a protective blank
over the bottom terminal. As such a thing would be next to impossible to obtain, anybody any ideas on a home made one? Stretch some gaffer tape over the body if you are really that worried. I just folded a piece of cardboard around the body and taped it in place - dont suppose it matters as long as you cover the terminals well. |
#21
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Stephen Dawson wrote:
www.insulatedtools.co.uk Interesting... what's a 'police probe'[*] for? [*]http://www.insulatedtoolsshop.co.uk/...Mark_1_78.html -- Andy |
#22
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"Andy Wade" wrote in message
... Stephen Dawson wrote: www.insulatedtools.co.uk Interesting... what's a 'police probe'[*] for? [*] http://www.insulatedtoolsshop.co.uk/...Mark_1_78.html OMG - I don't think I want to know!! |
#23
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"Andy Wade" wrote in message ... Stephen Dawson wrote: www.insulatedtools.co.uk Interesting... what's a 'police probe'[*] for? [*]http://www.insulatedtoolsshop.co.uk/...Mark_1_78.html -- Andy When I popped in to the factory I asked the same question. It evolved after a policeman on a search was electrocuted during a search of undergrowth. |
#24
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:25:52 +0000, Andy Wade
wrote: Stephen Dawson wrote: www.insulatedtools.co.uk Interesting... what's a 'police probe'[*] for? Especially without a Megger to go with it. [*]http://www.insulatedtoolsshop.co.uk/...Mark_1_78.html -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#25
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In message , Andy Hall
writes On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:25:52 +0000, Andy Wade wrote: Stephen Dawson wrote: www.insulatedtools.co.uk Interesting... what's a 'police probe'[*] for? Especially without a Megger to go with it. Or the KY -- geoff |
#26
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:04:19 GMT, "Stephen Dawson"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:05:27 GMT, "Alex \(YMG\)" wrote: Just ensure that there is no load and pull it out,thats it,done... Sometimes you have to give them a good tug though, and just remember the bottom terminal of the fuse holder is still live! Alex When I watched the man change my meter he slipped a protective blank over the bottom terminal. As such a thing would be next to impossible to obtain, anybody any ideas on a home made one? MJ Very easy to obtain. www.insulatedtools.co.uk part no 03080 or 03081 about £3 each plus vat and delivery Just the job. Thanks. Further to those who suggested removing the fuse or blanking the space with tape, I actually wanted something to cover just the live end whilst leaving the tail end accessible. I nearly had a heart attack once when I almost unscrewed the screw too much and I thought it was going to drop on to the live terminal. MJ |
#27
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"Mike" wrote snip Unfortunately, although the
electric co replaced the meter last week (changed from economy 7), they didn't fit a main isolator switch, which I find bizarre and would have thought was almost negligent under the circumstances, but there we go... anyway, I'll probably start by fitting an isolator switch to the existing system, for which I will need to yank the fuse. I'm not unduly worried about doing this, but never having done it before, or seen it done, I don't want want to make a boo-boo. snip I live in West Yorks and I asked the elec co (NPower) to come and do it. They didn't charge and weren't concerned about anything beyond their fuse. Antony |
#28
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Mike wrote:
Try pulling the fuse without cutting the seal first. I managed to get it out far enough on the slack in the seal to cut the circuit. But obviously make sure you don't lean on it and push it back in whilst holding a live end. No!! NNNNN-OOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Really, truly, no. Money-grubbing shareholder-value-only meanies though you may want to consider them, your Regional Electricity Company would a thousand million times rather you disconnected the load (i.e. turned the main switch on your CU firmly OFF), snipped through the seal, and pulled the fuse simply and safely right out, than tit about jiggling it "almost" out just to keep the seal intact. Keep the fuse in your pocket or in some other way away from the socket-wot-you-pulled-it-from the whole time you're working on the circuits; and keep the load very definitely OFF when you replace the fuse! (If you don't immediately understand why this is important, DON'T touch that fuse - get the electricity co. to disconnect and reconnect, or pay a few tenners over to someone who does.) Jiggling the fuseholder "just out of contact" runs at least two significant risks. The main one is that you haven't isolated the downstream stuff (meter/CU tails) properly - there could be as little as a couple of tenths of a millimeter gap doing the "isolation", and a passing rumbling HGV could be all it needs to reenergise the downstream conductors. Not remotely "safe working"! The subsidiary risk is that you end up, after your timid titting about, with a fuse carrier half-in/half-out, making poor contact, which causes enough heating and sparking under a heavier load to lead to a fire. You'd be unlucky to get just the "right" degree of poor contact to let enough current through to the load but lose enough to heat up the main fuse area dangerously, but relying on luck isn't smart. Stefek |
#29
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"Lobster" wrote in message ...
I'm shortly going to be tackling a rewiring job (before Part b*******y P comes in!) and will need to replace the CU (or rather, install one - the current system has about five separately switched circuits all wired in to the meter via Henley blocks). Snip Thanks for all the feedback - really helpful. So, next step, then... I've been looking at sourcing an isolator switch to interpose between the lecky meter and my Henley blocks, which will enable to me to isolate the whole system to work on it, and also fit the new CU. However, these switches do appear to be pretty expensive (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WY110M.html - 87 GBP + vat) when really I only want this for the interim period until rewiring is complete. So I'm now thinking - would it be acceptable to buy my new CU, and then connect my Henley blocks direct to the main switch in the CU (ie, is that possible? safe?), thereby using that to isolate all 5 separate circuits of my old system instead, while rewiring the house? Thanks David |
#31
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On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:16:42 UTC, Lurch
wrote: No need for all that. One of these http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HGV302.html with a 100A DP switch in, the same as you would get as a main incomer for the CU which I can't see on TLC, but your local electrical wholesaler will have them on the shelf, with the enclosures. Exactly what I did, except I got them both from CPC! -- Bob Eager begin a new life...dump Windows! |
#32
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"Lurch" wrote in message
... On 28 Nov 2004 14:15:00 -0800, (Lobster) strung together this: I've been looking at sourcing an isolator switch to interpose between the lecky meter and my Henley blocks, which will enable to me to isolate the whole system to work on it, and also fit the new CU. However, these switches do appear to be pretty expensive (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WY110M.html - 87 GBP + vat) when really I only want this for the interim period until rewiring is complete. No need for all that. One of these http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HGV302.html with a 100A DP switch in, the same as you would get as a main incomer for the CU which I can't see on TLC, but your local electrical wholesaler will have them on the shelf, with the enclosures. thanks for this - has answered a question that I was about to post about isolators. went into the local electrical warehouse pricing up a new CU, and asked about price of isolators at same time. "ooh, 100A isolator, hmm, they're pricey - about £100 or so" was the answer, but it seems all I need is a 2 way enclosure and a 100A DP main CU isolator switch which works out a fraction of the price. whatever my timing of the upgrade to CU is, I reckon I'll fit an isolator before christmas, just in case the leccy companies decide to get cute & start questioning broken fuse seals post part P (although I dont' think that they'll be any more bothered, the cynic in me thinks that the gvt might pressure them to do so in an attempt to enforce pt P)... -- Richard Sampson mail me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk |
#33
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Lurch wrote in message . ..
On 28 Nov 2004 14:15:00 -0800, (Lobster) strung together this: I've been looking at sourcing an isolator switch to interpose between the lecky meter and my Henley blocks, which will enable to me to isolate the whole system to work on it, and also fit the new CU. However, these switches do appear to be pretty expensive (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WY110M.html - 87 GBP + vat) when really I only want this for the interim period until rewiring is complete. No need for all that. One of these http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HGV302.html with a 100A DP switch in, the same as you would get as a main incomer for the CU which I can't see on TLC, but your local electrical wholesaler will have them on the shelf, with the enclosures. Great, thanks - that's more like it! What if I do want to get my meter resealed afterwards... if I ring up the elec co and ask them to do it, could I potentially get myself into deep do-do - ie better to keep my head down? If I say, 'oh my electrician fitted the new CU and said I needed to call you to get it resealed' would that be considered normal and OK? Or will they just be amazed that someone's asking them to do it, full stop? It's just that as the new meter was fitted only last week at my request, I can't blame some previous householder for having broken the seal, as I otherwise could. Cheers David |
#34
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"Lurch" wrote:
No need for all that. One of these http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HGV302.html with a 100A DP switch in, the same as you would get as a main incomer for the CU which I can't see on TLC, but your local electrical wholesaler will have them on the shelf, with the enclosures. Wickes have them - about £14. Only one screw on each of the connecting points - they need tightening up now and then. Al |
#35
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In article ,
Lobster wrote: What if I do want to get my meter resealed afterwards... if I ring up the elec co and ask them to do it, could I potentially get myself into deep do-do - ie better to keep my head down? If I say, 'oh my electrician fitted the new CU and said I needed to call you to get it resealed' would that be considered normal and OK? Or will they just be amazed that someone's asking them to do it, full stop? It's just that as the new meter was fitted only last week at my request, I can't blame some previous householder for having broken the seal, as I otherwise could. I pulled the fuses when I rewired many years ago, and the seals have never been replaced. Even when they changed the meter... -- *Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#36
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#37
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
... In article , Lobster wrote: So I'm now thinking - would it be acceptable to buy my new CU, and then connect my Henley blocks direct to the main switch in the CU (ie, is that possible? safe?), thereby using that to isolate all 5 separate circuits of my old system instead, while rewiring the house? Isn't it possible to simply change the CU in one go? Modern ones are pretty safe to work on 'live' afterwards if you just take a little care. Well, yes, except when I said I would be *replacing* the CU, that was a slight exaggeration, in that there's no CU to replace... The configuration is: Meter - Henley blocks - 5 separate, grotty old fused switches of different vintages, and each of which I think is still providing power to different areas of the house (not investigated that yet!). So I thought, OK, fit the new CU, then connect the Henley blocks direct to the CU's main switch in order to preserve the existing circuits while I fully rewire the place in parallel; and the CU main switch will serve to cut off all power to the house (old and new circuits) in one go. I'm not going to disturb any of the old circuitry downstream of the Henleys as some of it looks pretty iffy, ie I'm not wiring the old circuits directly into separate fuseways, even temporarily. So is that reasonable...? David |
#38
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In message , Lobster
writes What if I do want to get my meter resealed afterwards... if I ring up the elec co and ask them to do it, could I potentially get myself into deep do-do - ie better to keep my head down? If I say, 'oh my electrician fitted the new CU and said I needed to call you to get it resealed' would that be considered normal and OK? Or will they just be amazed that someone's asking them to do it, full stop? If you want it resealed, IME its best to take the "My electrician told me to phone you" line, otherwise you may get an ear-full from the call centre droid (I did). When the guy called round, he effectively said I shouldn't have told them, as they would then want to make a charge etc. Anyway, having seen the neat professional job I did, he said he'd try to get any charges waived, which must have worked as I never got a bill. -- Steve |
#39
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Lobster wrote:
Well, yes, except when I said I would be *replacing* the CU, that was a slight exaggeration, in that there's no CU to replace... The configuration is: Meter - Henley blocks - 5 separate, grotty old fused switches of different vintages, and each of which I think is still providing power to different areas of the house (not investigated that yet!). So I thought, OK, fit the new CU, then connect the Henley blocks direct to the CU's main switch in order to preserve the existing circuits while I fully rewire the place in parallel; and the CU main switch will serve to cut off all power to the house (old and new circuits) in one go. I'm not going to disturb any of the old circuitry downstream of the Henleys as some of it looks pretty iffy, ie I'm not wiring the old circuits directly into separate fuseways, even temporarily. So is that reasonable...? If you're progressing in phases like this, I'd rather buy one CU with possibly more ways than you think you'll want in the final install (there are frequently good offers on preloaded CUs+MCBs at many suppliers - both the mail-order-to-anyone and your local leccy trade counter). Then, rather than trying to take tails off the main switch of the CU to the existing Henley blocken, give each old switchfuse a temporary (but safe!) feed with a new bit of T&E appropriate to the load (6mmsq should be good for all) from an appropriately-rated CU way. Since you're sensibly not re-using the existing final circuit wiring, your new circuits will in general run from different ways in the MCB, though there might be a couple where you want to keep the existing division of circuits which your switchfusen have. HTH - Stefek |
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