I can't help wondering, and would be interested in anyone else's views,

1. Are shower pumps used anywhere else in Europe or is it another quirk of
our UK low pressure stored water heritage?
2. If this is a niche market why do we put up with such high prices for what
is basically an induction motor and some mouldings and seals?
3. Why are they always specified as this or that Bar rating when this is
meaningless without a corresponding flow at given pressure.
4. Do the manufacturers complex warranties actually mean anything? Perhaps
their failure costs are factored into the selling price.

Flame away

Peter wrote:

3. Why are they always specified as this or that Bar rating when this is
meaningless without a corresponding flow at given pressure.

The output pressure of fluid pumps is traditionally quoted in head of
water - the head of water the pump will support with a zero pressure input.

Picture your pump sitting on the ground. The inlet is connected to a
large tank of negligible height sitting next to the pump. The outlet is
connected to a clear vertical tube. Turn the pump on. How far does the
water go up the vertical tube before it stops? That's the head. 30' of
water ~ 1 bar.

The other important property is pumping rater - this changes as the back
pressure changes.

--
Grunff

"Peter" wrote in message
.. .
I can't help wondering, and would be interested in anyone else's views,

1. Are shower pumps used anywhere else in Europe or is it another quirk of
our UK low pressure stored water heritage?

Predominantly UK & Ireland.

2. If this is a niche market why do we put up with such high prices for
what
is basically an induction motor and some mouldings and seals?

Don't buy one. Use the water company's pumps via the mains.

3. Why are they always specified as this or that Bar rating when this is
meaningless without a corresponding flow at given pressure.
4. Do the manufacturers complex warranties actually mean anything? Perhaps
their failure costs are factored into the selling price.

They mean not much under law. If you had a failure 1 week after a guarantee
expired, a court would go in your favour. I think "fit for purpose" is the
term.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:16:16 GMT, "Peter"
wrote:

I can't help wondering, and would be interested in anyone else's views,

1. Are shower pumps used anywhere else in Europe or is it another quirk of
our UK low pressure stored water heritage?

Not as far as I know. The stored arrangement that we have does
mean that a shower, if properly connected, will maintain a flow
independent of the supply pressure.

2. If this is a niche market why do we put up with such high prices for what
is basically an induction motor and some mouldings and seals?

The prices don't strike me as particularly high. You can buy a
good quality pump from Stuart Turner or you can buy junk from the DIY
store and pay less.


3. Why are they always specified as this or that Bar rating when this is
meaningless without a corresponding flow at given pressure.

The rating is at zero flow and represents the equivalent of a head of
water that the pump will create. The data sheet should then have
graphs of pressure/flow.


4. Do the manufacturers complex warranties actually mean anything? Perhaps
their failure costs are factored into the selling price.

I tend not to screw around with warranties unless they are simple and
virtually unconditional, preferring to buy a good quality product.

I then expect a good lifetime and if I don't get it use persuasion of
the supplier backed up with the suggestion of legal measures if
necessary.

Difficulties come with the cheap products where people expect a lot
and there are all sorts of weasel words in what appear to be
attractive warranties.

Caveat Emptor, and Nil Illegitimis Carborundum just like anything
else.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:16:16 GMT, "Peter"
wrote:

I can't help wondering, and would be interested in anyone else's views,

1. Are shower pumps used anywhere else in Europe or is it another quirk of
our UK low pressure stored water heritage?

Not as far as I know. The stored arrangement that we have does
mean that a shower, if properly connected, will maintain a flow
independent of the supply pressure.

2. If this is a niche market why do we put up with such high prices for what
is basically an induction motor and some mouldings and seals?

The prices don't strike me as particularly high. You can buy a
good quality pump from Stuart Turner or you can buy junk from the DIY
store and pay less.


3. Why are they always specified as this or that Bar rating when this is
meaningless without a corresponding flow at given pressure.

The rating is at zero flow and represents the equivalent of a head of
water that the pump will create. The data sheet should then have
graphs of pressure/flow.


4. Do the manufacturers complex warranties actually mean anything? Perhaps
their failure costs are factored into the selling price.

I tend not to screw around with warranties unless they are simple and
virtually unconditional, preferring to buy a good quality product.

I then expect a good lifetime and if I don't get it use persuasion of
the supplier backed up with the suggestion of legal measures if
necessary.

Difficulties come with the cheap products where people expect a lot
and there are all sorts of weasel words in what appear to be
attractive warranties.

Caveat Emptor, and Nil Illegitimis Carborundum just like anything
else.


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

I'm curious to know how many years service can be expected of a shower
pump. Ours is just over 3 years old now and has given trouble free
service, apart from the flow switches, which I've by-passed. The unit is
a Salamander with 1.5 bar pressure output.

They mean not much under law. If you had a failure 1 week after a
guarantee
expired, a court would go in your favour. I think "fit for purpose" is
the
term.

Not quite. It would be under "satisfactory quality" (which replaced
merchantable quality a while back). Obviously, the pump is fit for purpose
(when it works) as it pumps water, which is its purpose. A fit for purpose
claim would be because when you opened the box, you got a thermostatic
radiator valve rather than a pump. That obviously would not be fit for the
purpose of pumping water.

Christian.

I'm curious to know how many years service can be expected of a shower
pump.

I'd think that you might start getting difficulties after 3 years for a
pump. You'd might have to put together a pretty convincing case that there
was a serious manufacturing defect, not just the results of years of scale
or corrosion.

Christian.

In message , Jason
writes
Andy Hall wrote in message
...
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:16:16 GMT, "Peter"
wrote:

I can't help wondering, and would be interested in anyone else's views,

1. Are shower pumps used anywhere else in Europe or is it another quirk of
our UK low pressure stored water heritage?

Not as far as I know. The stored arrangement that we have does
mean that a shower, if properly connected, will maintain a flow
independent of the supply pressure.

2. If this is a niche market why do we put up with such high prices for what
is basically an induction motor and some mouldings and seals?

The prices don't strike me as particularly high. You can buy a
good quality pump from Stuart Turner or you can buy junk from the DIY
store and pay less.


3. Why are they always specified as this or that Bar rating when this is
meaningless without a corresponding flow at given pressure.

The rating is at zero flow and represents the equivalent of a head of
water that the pump will create. The data sheet should then have
graphs of pressure/flow.


4. Do the manufacturers complex warranties actually mean anything? Perhaps
their failure costs are factored into the selling price.

I tend not to screw around with warranties unless they are simple and
virtually unconditional, preferring to buy a good quality product.

I then expect a good lifetime and if I don't get it use persuasion of
the supplier backed up with the suggestion of legal measures if
necessary.

Difficulties come with the cheap products where people expect a lot
and there are all sorts of weasel words in what appear to be
attractive warranties.

Caveat Emptor, and Nil Illegitimis Carborundum just like anything
else.


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

I'm curious to know how many years service can be expected of a shower
pump. Ours is just over 3 years old now and has given trouble free
service, apart from the flow switches, which I've by-passed. The unit is
a Salamander with 1.5 bar pressure output.

My Newteam pump (sold under several brands, Shower Force etc), lasted
about 7 years, then I had to replace the motor brushes (Jan this year I
think). Spares readily available from the manufacturer. Still going OK
now.

--
Steve