Hi,

Following on from my kettling post.

My father wants the old boiler out and a combi fitting. He had a visit
from a recommended CORGI guy who suggested either a Vokera or
Ravenheat/Biasi for a budget option. I queried Ravenheat but the guy
insists that they were pants but have now improved massively.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Simon.

"Simes" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

Following on from my kettling post.

My father wants the old boiler out and a combi fitting. He had a visit
from a recommended CORGI guy who suggested either a Vokera or
Ravenheat/Biasi for a budget option. I queried Ravenheat but the guy
insists that they were pants but have now improved massively.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Simon.

I have had one for almost 3 years and no problems at all. I have the
ravenheat contract which is £100pa and they do a full and proper service
when the visit.

I'd recommend.

"PJ" wrote in message
...

"Simes" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

Following on from my kettling post.

My father wants the old boiler out and a combi fitting. He had a visit
from a recommended CORGI guy who suggested either a Vokera or
Ravenheat/Biasi for a budget option. I queried Ravenheat but the guy
insists that they were pants but have now improved massively.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Simon.

I have had one for almost 3 years and no problems at all. I have the
ravenheat contract which is £100pa and they do a full and proper service
when the visit.

I'd recommend.

Ravenheat a waste of sheet metal. They are poor boilers. The only one I
would consider is their cheap condensing boiler, but as it is so naff in its
design, there again no thanks.

"Simes" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

Following on from my kettling post.

My father wants the old boiler out and a combi fitting. He had a visit
from a recommended CORGI guy who suggested either a Vokera or
Ravenheat/Biasi for a budget option. I queried Ravenheat but the guy
insists that they were pants but have now improved massively.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Simon.

What is his hot water usage? Does he take frequent baths and requires fast
bath fills? If not then a decent combi is the way. Good simple combi's are
Ferroli Modena and Worcester Bosch Junior at around 11 to 12 litres/min.
Great for frequent showers and a simple designs with no 3-ways valves.

If he wants high flowrates it is cost effective to use two Juniors and
combine the outlets. Worcester will supply a drawing on how to do it. Two
Juniors are available for around £1000 to 1100 depending on what sized units
you buy. They have 24 and 28 kW you could use two 24kW or two 28 kW combi's
or one of each. That is cheaper than the Worcester HighFlow 18 litres/min
floor mounted combi and can deliver about 21.5 litres/min and never run out
of hot water.

Have one combi do the downstairs heating on its own programmer/timer and one
do upstairs. Natural zoning, so you don't have to heat upstairs when you
are not up there. No external zone valves either, and simple wiring up too.
Also if one goes down you will have another combi to give some heat in the
house and DHW too. Combine the outlets for DHW and all the baths you want
very quickly and no waiting. It will do two showers no problem at all. A
win, win, situation.

Ravenheat a waste of sheet metal. They are poor boilers. The only one I
would consider is their cheap condensing boiler, but as it is so naff in
its
design, there again no thanks.


BUT like I said... I have no problems with mine.

Have one combi do the downstairs heating on its own programmer/timer and
one
do upstairs. Natural zoning, so you don't have to heat upstairs when you
are not up there. No external zone valves either, and simple wiring up
too.
Also if one goes down you will have another combi to give some heat in the
house and DHW too. Combine the outlets for DHW and all the baths you want
very quickly and no waiting. It will do two showers no problem at all. A
win, win, situation.

Two boilers?! Double service costs?! Double usage costs?! Naaah, think not.
That is the maddest idea I have ever heard.

When I refurbed my house I pondered for months what system to have.
Unvented... crap at filling baths unless you spend a small fortune.
Potterton HE... crap at filling baths (they run cold at half full!).
Conventional boiler and hot water cylinder... no good at filling baths
either.

In the end I installed a good combi and coupled it up to my existing DHW
cylinder. I run every tap off the combi but the HW cylinder feeds my showers
via a pump. That way I have just one boiler, endless HW at all the taps
(inc. the baths) and a shower that is more powerful than any combi can
possibly provide. A little more expensive to run but well worth while. I
also have the added benefit of storing some water in the loft tanks which is
damn handy if the water supply fails (which it has done twice this year
already!).

"PJ" wrote in message
...

Ravenheat a waste of sheet metal. They are poor boilers. The only one I
would consider is their cheap condensing boiler, but as it is so naff in
its
design, there again no thanks.


BUT like I said... I have no problems with mine.

If only you knew, but please don't get to know as you will worry.

"PJ" wrote in message
...

Have one combi do the downstairs heating
on its own programmer/timer and
one do upstairs. Natural zoning, so you
don't have to heat upstairs when you
are not up there. No external zone valves either,
and simple wiring up too. Also if one goes
down you will have another combi to give
some heat in the house and DHW too.
Combine the outlets for DHW and all the baths
you want very quickly and no waiting. It will
do two showers no problem at all. A
win, win, situation.

Two boilers?!

Yes.

Double service costs?!

The cost of servicing two side by side can be negotiated down.

Double usage costs?!

How? One does upstairs and one does down, and the upstairs will be on not
much of the time. As will the downstairs. As upstairs will be off for most
of the day less fuel is used making this setup very economical.

Naaah, think not.

That's because you can't think well enough.

That is the maddest idea I have ever heard.

You should read what was written. I doubt you would know a good idea from a
bad one.

When I refurbed my house I pondered for
months what system to have.
Unvented... crap at filling baths unless
you spend a small fortune.

Unvented cylinders fill baths super fast.

Potterton HE... crap at filling baths
(they run cold at half full!).

There are high flowrate combi's around, much higher flowrates than the HE.

Conventional boiler and hot water
cylinder... no good at filling baths
either.

Thay are good at filling baths.

In the end I installed a good combi and
coupled it up to my existing DHW
cylinder. I run every tap off the combi
but the HW cylinder feeds my showers
via a pump. That way I have just one boiler,
endless HW at all the taps (inc. the baths)
and a shower that is more powerful than any
combi can possibly provide. A little more
expensive to run but well worth while. I
also have the added benefit of storing some
water in the loft tanks which is
damn handy if the water supply fails (which
it has done twice this year
already!).

This clearly indicates you know nothing of heating and water systems. Using
a combi with a normal tank and cylinder, it is best to have only the shower
off the combi giving high pressure mains pressure showers with silly, noisy,
prone to failing pump, and all other hot outlets off the cylinder. To do
what you did is foolish.

It is best you take note of what I write.

This clearly indicates you know nothing of heating and water systems.
Using
a combi with a normal tank and cylinder, it is best to have only the
shower
off the combi giving high pressure mains pressure showers with silly,
noisy,
prone to failing pump, and all other hot outlets off the cylinder. To do
what you did is foolish.

Sorry but I can't agree. No combi will give a high pressure shower,
especially in winter when the flow rate has to be reduced for effective
water heating. They also rely on high pressure supply which some may not
have! Now I mean high pressure - not good pressure. I have "hotel" pressure
at my showers.

The noisy pump.... yes I'll give you that but to be honest I don't hear it
because I have mine in the cylinder cupboard. I have also had the same pump
for three years and it is used six times a day - it has never failed! AND if
it does that's fine too because at £250 it won't bankrupt me. We have to pay
for using things and at this rate it's cheap!

Some do say that I did it back to front but doing things your way a good
bath fill would empty the hot cylinder leaving the rest of the house
(kitchen, utility, garage, etc.) with no HW until it re-heated. My way
(which incidentally is agreed upon by many) allows any tap to have endless
HW and the cylinder is only used for pumped showers.

I'm not saying you're wrong or I am right. Each to their own. The way I did
it suits me fine and if i had my time over I'd do it the same way.

"PJ" wrote in message
...

This clearly indicates you know nothing
of heating and water systems. Using
a combi with a normal tank and cylinder,
it is best to have only the shower
off the combi giving high pressure mains
pressure showers with no silly,noisy,
prone to failing pump, and all other hot
outlets off the cylinder. To do
what you did is foolish.

Sorry but I can't agree.

It is clear you don't know enough, so taking issue with the lies of is
rather silly.

No combi will give a high pressure shower,
especially in winter when the flow rate
has to be reduced for effective
water heating.

This is absolute nonsense. There are high flowrate combi's that will deliver
high pressure (what the mains delivers) and flow.

They also rely on high pressure
supply which some may not
have!

A number of combi's will operate as low as 0.1 bar pressure and up to 10
bar.

Now I mean high pressure - not good
pressure. I have "hotel" pressure
at my showers.

You could have that if you bought the right combi.

The noisy pump.... yes I'll give you that but
to be honest I don't hear it because I have
mine in the cylinder cupboard. I have also had
the same pump for three years and it is used
six times a day - it has never failed! AND if
it does that's fine too because at £250 it won't
bankrupt me. We have to pay
for using things and at this rate it's cheap!

Putting the £250 plus the extras on top of your combi costs would have got
you an excelent peforming combi.

Some do say that I did it back to
front but doing things your way a good
bath fill would empty the hot cylinder
leaving the rest of the house
(kitchen, utility, garage, etc.) with no HW
until it re-heated.

You install a quick recovery coil cylinder that will re-heat in about 10-15
minutes from cold. As you draw-off water it will be re-heating so re-heat
time will be even less.

My way (which incidentally is agreed
upon by many)

Not by professionals who know what they are on about.

allows any tap to have endless
HW and the cylinder is only used
for pumped showers.

How long does it take to fill the bath?

I'm not saying you're wrong or I
am right. Each to their own.

It is not each to their at all. There is the optimum solution and you are
nowhere near it.

The way I did it suits me fine and
if i had my time over I'd do it the same way.

Only a fool knowingly does the same mistake twice.

You really are an awkward **** aren't you. Do you "know it all"? I'll
respond to your post one final time and then say bye because I just can't do
doing with you're attitude.


"IMM" wrote in message
...

"PJ" wrote in message
...

This clearly indicates you know nothing
of heating and water systems. Using
a combi with a normal tank and cylinder,
it is best to have only the shower
off the combi giving high pressure mains
pressure showers with no silly,noisy,
prone to failing pump, and all other hot
outlets off the cylinder. To do
what you did is foolish.

Sorry but I can't agree.

It is clear you don't know enough, so taking issue with the lies of is
rather silly.

Lies? Oh, right.

This is absolute nonsense. There are high flowrate combi's that will
deliver
high pressure (what the mains delivers) and flow.

FACT: Combi's rely on good incoming pressure to give high output pressure. I
have medium incoming pressure and no combi would ever give me the power
showers I get with a pump.

Now then, If YOU can prove me wrong please name some combi's which would do
what you suggest.



They also rely on high pressure
supply which some may not
have!

A number of combi's will operate as low as 0.1 bar pressure and up to 10
bar.

Yes but low pressure in = low pressure out. Combi's don't make pressure!

Now I mean high pressure - not good
pressure. I have "hotel" pressure
at my showers.

You could have that if you bought the right combi.

So like I say above... name some!


The noisy pump.... yes I'll give you that but
to be honest I don't hear it because I have
mine in the cylinder cupboard. I have also had
the same pump for three years and it is used
six times a day - it has never failed! AND if
it does that's fine too because at £250 it won't
bankrupt me. We have to pay
for using things and at this rate it's cheap!

Putting the £250 plus the extras on top of your combi costs would have got
you an excelent peforming combi.

So like I say above... name some!

Some do say that I did it back to
front but doing things your way a good
bath fill would empty the hot cylinder
leaving the rest of the house
(kitchen, utility, garage, etc.) with no HW
until it re-heated.

You install a quick recovery coil cylinder that will re-heat in about
10-15
minutes from cold. As you draw-off water it will be re-heating so re-heat
time will be even less.

That's 10-15 minutes WITHOUT hot water! That's means the second bath CANNOT
be filled immed. My larger tub would completely empty even a large cylinder
of hot water.


My way (which incidentally is agreed
upon by many)

Not by professionals who know what they are on about.

Well as it happens a college lecturer (a master plumber) OK'd it and gave me
the diagrams for it. He also said "the only way to achieve a good shower is
a combi for taps and a cylinder with pump for showers". Maybe he's thick
too?!

allows any tap to have endless
HW and the cylinder is only used
for pumped showers.

How long does it take to fill the bath?

I've never timed it but not long. 4 minutes perhaps. Personally I can't see
the need for a quicker filling bath anyway. Showers are for speed - baths
for relaxing.


I'm not saying you're wrong or I
am right. Each to their own.

It is not each to their at all. There is the optimum solution and you are
nowhere near it.

Here's the "know it all" attitude again. For MY needs I have the optimum
solution. I can state this because I am more than happy with the whole
set-up. It does exactly what it was intended to do. I NEVER run out of hot
water at the taps or showers, it's cheap to run, has minimum maintenance and
is very reliable. (optimum).

The way I did it suits me fine and
if i had my time over I'd do it the same way.

Only a fool knowingly does the same mistake twice.

OK, I'm a fool. I'm a happy fool though!

So, what are these super performing combi's then? The ones which increase
incoming pressure and give pumped shower performance without a pump? I'm
sure many here would like to know.

"PJ" wrote in message
...

You really are an awkward **** aren't you.

Not at all. Direct and to the point.

Do you "know it all"?

And that I do.

I'll respond to your post one final time
and then say bye because I just can't do
doing with you're attitude.


It is you with the know-it-all amateur attitude. Take not of people who are
infinitely more knowledgeable than you.

This is absolute nonsense. There are high
flowrate combi's that will deliver
high pressure (what the mains delivers) and flow.

FACT: Combi's rely on good incoming pressure
to give high output pressure. I have medium
incoming pressure and no combi would ever
give me the power showers I get with a pump.

What is your pressure? 2 bar? Most pumps are only rated at 2 barish. A
high flow combi on 2 bar mains pressure gives the same performance and no
need for a house shaking troublesome pump. The Alpha CB50 currently on a
thread here would do that.

Now then, If YOU can prove me wrong
please name some combi's which would do
what you suggest.

See above. And that is only one combi, with amny more. Or you could go for
the highest instant water heating in the world; a Takagi at 50 litres per
minute. Not available in the UK yet, and commercial only at 380,000 BTU/hr

They also rely on high pressure
supply which some may not
have!

A number of combi's will operate as low
as 0.1 bar pressure and up to 10
bar.

Yes but low pressure in = low pressure
out. Combi's don't make pressure!

You were making the incorrect point that all combi's only operate on high
pressure, They do not.

Now I mean high pressure - not good
pressure. I have "hotel" pressure
at my showers.

You could have that if you bought the right combi.

So like I say above... name some!

See above

The noisy pump.... yes I'll give you that but
to be honest I don't hear it because I have
mine in the cylinder cupboard. I have also had
the same pump for three years and it is used
six times a day - it has never failed! AND if
it does that's fine too because at £250 it won't
bankrupt me. We have to pay
for using things and at this rate it's cheap!

Putting the £250 plus the extras on top
of your combi costs would have got
you an excelent peforming combi.

So like I say above... name some!

See above.

Some do say that I did it back to
front but doing things your way a good
bath fill would empty the hot cylinder
leaving the rest of the house
(kitchen, utility, garage, etc.) with no HW
until it re-heated.

You install a quick recovery coil cylinder
that will re-heat in about 10-15
minutes from cold. As you draw-off water
it will be re-heating so re-heat
time will be even less.

That's 10-15 minutes WITHOUT hot water!
That's means the second bath CANNOT
be filled immed. My larger tub would
completely empty even a large cylinder
of hot water.

You size the cylinder to suit. 10-15 minutes between baths? Do your baths
take less than 10 minutes?

My way (which incidentally is agreed
upon by many)

Not by professionals who know what
they are on about.

Well as it happens a college lecturer
(a master plumber) OK'd it and gave me
the diagrams for it. He also said "the
only way to achieve a good shower is
a combi for taps and a cylinder with
pump for showers". Maybe he's thick
too?!

Sounds like he is THICK!

allows any tap to have endless
HW and the cylinder is only used
for pumped showers.

How long does it take to fill the bath?

I've never timed it but not long. 4 minutes
perhaps. Personally I can't see the need
for a quicker filling bath anyway. Showers
are for speed - baths for relaxing.

Your combi fills a large bath in 4 minutes? What make and size?

I'm not saying you're wrong or I
am right. Each to their own.

It is not each to their at all. There is the
optimum solution and you are
nowhere near it.

Here's the "know it all" attitude again.
For MY needs I have the optimum
solution.

I doubt that very much on the information you have provided. What is the
pressure and flow of your mains?

I can state this because I am more
than happy with the whole
set-up.

Most people are satisfied with less than the ideal in many aspects of life.

It does exactly what it was intended
to do. I NEVER run out of hot
water at the taps or showers, it's cheap
to run, has minimum maintenance and
is very reliable. (optimum).

The way I did it suits me fine and
if i had my time over I'd do it the same way.

Only a fool knowingly does the same mistake twice.

OK, I'm a fool. I'm a happy fool though!

Ignorance is bliss they say.

So, what are these super performing
combi's then?

See above

The ones which increase
incoming pressure

None increase the incoming pressure, they use the maximum flow and pressure
the mains can give.

and give pumped shower performance
without a pump? I'm
sure many here would like to know.

See above.

I think it's time to tell you to **** off.

And like I said earlier.... bye.

Oh and welcome to my kill file.

"PJ" wrote in message
...

I think it's time to tell you to **** off.

And like I said earlier.... bye.

Oh and welcome to my kill file.

Good, amateur idiotic know-it-allness, put me in your kill file. As I saiud,
when I wite about this topic, take note, lots of note.

In article ,
PJ wrote:
So, what are these super performing combi's then? The ones which increase
incoming pressure and give pumped shower performance without a pump? I'm
sure many here would like to know.

And don't forget - as IMM always does - the cost, for the vast majority of
houses, of uprating both the incoming water main and gas supply for one of
his 'super' combis.

--
*I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
PJ wrote:
So, what are these super performing combi's then? The ones which
increase
incoming pressure and give pumped shower performance without a pump? I'm
sure many here would like to know.

And don't forget - as IMM always does - the cost, for the vast majority of
houses, of uprating both the incoming water main and gas supply for one of
his 'super' combis.

Personally I thinks IMM's a prick and a troll and he has made a welcome
addition to my blocked senders list.

"PJ" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
PJ wrote:

So, what are these super performing combi's then? The ones which
increase
incoming pressure and give pumped shower performance without a pump?
I'm
sure many here would like to know.

And don't forget - as IMM always does - the
cost, for the vast majority of houses, of uprating
both the incoming water main and gas supply for one of
his 'super' combis.

Oh the ignorance of it! The domestic gas supply can cope with 212 cu foot
per hour. Two Junior combi's are well within the range. If the water main
can deliver 22 litres/min, which many millions of them can, then all is
fine.

Stick to twiddling the bass and treble knobs.

Personally I thinks IMM's a prick and a troll
and he has made a welcome
addition to my blocked senders list.

Still bitter at realising you have a crap heating and hot water system?
Only a fool would do what you did.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
And don't forget - as IMM always does - the
cost, for the vast majority of houses, of uprating
both the incoming water main and gas supply for one of
his 'super' combis.

Oh the ignorance of it! The domestic gas supply can cope with 212 cu
foot per hour. Two Junior combi's are well within the range. If the
water main can deliver 22 litres/min, which many millions of them can,
then all is fine.

Another 'if', then? And of course the cost of installing a second boiler -
and the inconvenience of just where to site it means absolutely nothing on
your planet.

Stick to twiddling the bass and treble knobs.

If I ever gave any advice as ridiculous concerning things about about my
profession on here as you constantly do about what you claim to be yours,
I'd not be able to sleep at nights.

Personally I thinks IMM's a prick and a troll and he has made a
welcome addition to my blocked senders list.

Still bitter at realising you have a crap heating and hot water system?
Only a fool would do what you did.

--
*In "Casablanca", Humphrey Bogart never said "Play it again, Sam" *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Still bitter at realising you have a crap heating and hot water system?
Only a fool would do what you did.

Christ, I kill filtered this prick and he still manages to get through. I
think he has his cock in his hand while typing. IMO it would take a fool to
install two boilers in anything but the largest of houses. I mentioned the
idea to a college lecturer (plumbing) who I know and he laughed. I've also
mentioned it to a plumber friend and he laughed too. Hey, maybe we're all
fools!

"PJ" wrote in message
...

Still bitter at realising you have a crap heating and hot water
system?
Only a fool would do what you did.

IMO it would take a fool to
install two boilers in anything but the
largest of houses. I mentioned the
idea to a college lecturer (plumbing)
who I know and he laughed. I've also
mentioned it to a plumber friend and he
laughed too. Hey, maybe we're all
fools!

You are all fools that is clear. The plumbers should stick to drains and
gutters and leave heating to heating engineers.

In message , IMM
writes

"PJ" wrote in message
...

Still bitter at realising you have a crap heating and hot water
system?
Only a fool would do what you did.

IMO it would take a fool to
install two boilers in anything but the
largest of houses. I mentioned the
idea to a college lecturer (plumbing)
who I know and he laughed. I've also
mentioned it to a plumber friend and he
laughed too. Hey, maybe we're all
fools!

You are all fools that is clear. The plumbers should stick to drains and
gutters and leave heating to heating engineers.

.... And you should too
--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"PJ" wrote in message
...

Still bitter at realising you have a crap heating and hot water
system?
Only a fool would do what you did.

IMO it would take a fool to
install two boilers in anything but the
largest of houses. I mentioned the
idea to a college lecturer (plumbing)
who I know and he laughed. I've also
mentioned it to a plumber friend and he
laughed too. Hey, maybe we're all
fools!

You are all fools that is clear. The plumbers should stick to drains and
gutters and leave heating to heating engineers.

... And you should too
--
geoff

Maxie, you are a one. Did you burn yourself today with the soldering iron?

In article ,
IMM wrote:
You are all fools that is clear. The plumbers should stick to drains and
gutters and leave heating to heating engineers.

There's some truth in that. Do you know any?

--
*A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn