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Will
 
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Default Preparing a concrete floor for ceramic tiles.

Hello all

If anyone can give me any advice I would be really grateful... as an
expectant father I am trying to get my house sorted before the
imminent arrival!

Background:

I live in a house that was converted from a farm building sometime in
the last 50-100 years (?) and I want to put ceramic tiles down on the
kitchen and hallway floors. I have pulled up the existing vinyl tiles
that were covering the floor to expose the black adhesive (?) below.
The tiles came up easily and the adhesive below is dry to touch and is
well stuck to the underlying concrete floor.

The concrete floor is very unlevel and has highs and lows as well as
small areas where the concrete has simply crumbled. This is probably a
result of damp (?) as there is no damp proof course (!).

I want to prepare the floor properly so that the ceramic tiels lie
flat and survive for a few years (I really can't afford to have a dpc
fitted so I am trying to get the next best solution).

Proposal:

1. Fill the bigger holes with mortar.
2. Coat the floor with a couple of layers of bitumen paint (to stop
damp getting to adhesive/tiles - the whole floor wont be coated as the
areas under the kitchen units will be left).
3. Then use a leveling compound over the floor part to be tiled.
4. Apply tile adhesive and lay the ceramic tiles.

Questions:

1. Is this a goof solution or is there a better way?

2. Have I got the order above correct? For example, should the bitumen
paint go on the leveling compound?

3. There is a confusing array of products available - water
based/vinyl/latex etc. What types of bitumen/levelling compound/tile
adhesive are compatible? Will they all bond with on another?

Basically any advice you can give would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Will
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Mark S.
 
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Default

On 25 Oct 2004 12:11:15 -0700, (Will)
wrote:

Hello all

If anyone can give me any advice I would be really grateful... as an
expectant father I am trying to get my house sorted before the
imminent arrival!

Background:

I live in a house that was converted from a farm building sometime in
the last 50-100 years (?) and I want to put ceramic tiles down on the
kitchen and hallway floors. I have pulled up the existing vinyl tiles
that were covering the floor to expose the black adhesive (?) below.
The tiles came up easily and the adhesive below is dry to touch and is
well stuck to the underlying concrete floor.

The concrete floor is very unlevel and has highs and lows as well as
small areas where the concrete has simply crumbled. This is probably a
result of damp (?) as there is no damp proof course (!).

I want to prepare the floor properly so that the ceramic tiels lie
flat and survive for a few years (I really can't afford to have a dpc
fitted so I am trying to get the next best solution).

Proposal:

1. Fill the bigger holes with mortar.
2. Coat the floor with a couple of layers of bitumen paint (to stop
damp getting to adhesive/tiles - the whole floor wont be coated as the
areas under the kitchen units will be left).
3. Then use a leveling compound over the floor part to be tiled.
4. Apply tile adhesive and lay the ceramic tiles.

Questions:

1. Is this a goof solution or is there a better way?

2. Have I got the order above correct? For example, should the bitumen
paint go on the leveling compound?

3. There is a confusing array of products available - water
based/vinyl/latex etc. What types of bitumen/levelling compound/tile
adhesive are compatible? Will they all bond with on another?

Basically any advice you can give would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Will



I'll leave the tiling and damp to those better qualified just a note
that if you use any leveling compound at any point avoid the Wickes
homebrand stuff - I've just spent ages redoing the areas I'd used it
on when B&Q were out of their own brand and the Evostick stuff...

Mark S.

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stuart noble
 
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1. Fill the bigger holes with mortar.
2. Coat the floor with a couple of layers of bitumen paint (to stop
damp getting to adhesive/tiles - the whole floor wont be coated as the
areas under the kitchen units will be left).
3. Then use a leveling compound over the floor part to be tiled.
4. Apply tile adhesive and lay the ceramic tiles.


Treat the area with 1pva: 4 water before filling. A general purpose mortar
(Readymix etc) works well.
Forget the bitumen.
Use a latex screed (the one that comes with a liquid additive). I'd cover
the whole floor to 5mm thickness as you won't want damp getting up into the
units. Not the easiest stuff to work with though.
You could skip the screed and rely on the adhesive as a waterproofer but
using it to pack the tiles/level the floor can become expensive and will
take forever to dry. The latex is walkable in a couple of hours.


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The Natural Philosopher
 
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Default

stuart noble wrote:

1. Fill the bigger holes with mortar.
2. Coat the floor with a couple of layers of bitumen paint (to stop
damp getting to adhesive/tiles - the whole floor wont be coated as the
areas under the kitchen units will be left).
3. Then use a leveling compound over the floor part to be tiled.
4. Apply tile adhesive and lay the ceramic tiles.



Treat the area with 1pva: 4 water before filling. A general purpose mortar
(Readymix etc) works well.
Forget the bitumen.
Use a latex screed (the one that comes with a liquid additive). I'd cover
the whole floor to 5mm thickness as you won't want damp getting up into the
units. Not the easiest stuff to work with though.
You could skip the screed and rely on the adhesive as a waterproofer but
using it to pack the tiles/level the floor can become expensive and will
take forever to dry. The latex is walkable in a couple of hours.




I'll take a different tack on this.

First of all stabilsie with PVA. This really does bind loose mortar
together.

Then ether rescreed or use levelling compound. That gets it roughly level.

Forget DPC as teh tiles are water oproo anyway, but use waterproofing in
the grout.

Lay tiles on a fairly thick bed of rapid set, using strings and levels
to get the levels spot on accuarte. Tamp tiles down gently with a rubber
mallet.

Wash off any tile cement immediately on laying. Rapid set mixed stiff is
recommended as it doesn't slump and sets fast enough to be walked on
gently in a couple of hours.

Use quality grout (I swear by Bal, YMMV) and a waterproofing additive:
clean it all immedairely grouted - I use those scrubbing pads and scrub,
wipe and squeesze, and finish off with a shaping tool to make teh grout
look sexy.

If there is a slight damp problem up the walls, cut tiles in half for
skirting, and run them up to at least 4 " above outside ground level. In
general in a solid brick wall this will force the damp to rise, and it
should evaporate outwards raher than inwards.


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Will
 
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I'll leave the tiling and damp to those better qualified just a note
that if you use any leveling compound at any point avoid the Wickes
homebrand stuff - I've just spent ages redoing the areas I'd used it
on when B&Q were out of their own brand and the Evostick stuff...

Mark S.


Thanks Mark. I'll make a point of using another brand! I have read of
a few people having problems with levelling compound... I wonder if it
was wet enough when used??


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Will
 
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Thanks everyone, some realy useful tips and ideas. Luckily I have the
father-in-law coming to help so I will run the options past him and
see what we come up with. It seems my knowledge of adhesives needs to
be expanded....

I let you all know what we decide to do and give some feedback on the
results when its done... hopefully next week! LOL

Thanks again... and keep any other ideas coming as I don't plan to
start the job until this Friday!
  #7   Report Post  
stuart noble
 
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The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...
Lay tiles on a fairly thick bed of rapid set, using strings and levels
to get the levels spot on accuarte.

Fine for the pros. Me, I prefer to pack the tiles individually in my own
time. Rapid set, strings and levels? Sounds stressful to me :-)


  #9   Report Post  
Will
 
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"stuart noble" wrote in message ...
The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...
Lay tiles on a fairly thick bed of rapid set, using strings and levels
to get the levels spot on accuarte.

Fine for the pros. Me, I prefer to pack the tiles individually in my own
time. Rapid set, strings and levels? Sounds stressful to me :-)


LOL... I am definately looking for the low stress option! Thanks for
the tips though, I am now feeling more optimisitic about being able to
do this job. It looks like ensuring I have the correct materials
(mixed to appropriate consistency) is the key... and having the help
of all you kind people!
  #10   Report Post  
stuart noble
 
Posts: n/a
Default


LOL... I am definately looking for the low stress option! Thanks for
the tips though, I am now feeling more optimisitic about being able to
do this job. It looks like ensuring I have the correct materials
(mixed to appropriate consistency) is the key... and having the help
of all you kind people!

IMO the low stress way is to fill the floor roughly first. Use a length of
2x1 to check levels with doorways etc and leave a little more than a tile
thickness gap. Pin another piece of wood to it and you can use it to tamp
the stuff down. It needs to be flat but not necessarily level.




  #11   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
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Default

stuart noble wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...

Lay tiles on a fairly thick bed of rapid set, using strings and levels
to get the levels spot on accuarte.


Fine for the pros. Me, I prefer to pack the tiles individually in my own
time. Rapid set, strings and levels? Sounds stressful to me :-)


I do pack the tils individually, but the strings and levels are what you
need to get the darn things packed right!
  #12   Report Post  
The Natural Philosopher
 
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Default

Will wrote:

"stuart noble" wrote in message ...

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...

Lay tiles on a fairly thick bed of rapid set, using strings and levels
to get the levels spot on accuarte.


Fine for the pros. Me, I prefer to pack the tiles individually in my own
time. Rapid set, strings and levels? Sounds stressful to me :-)



LOL... I am definately looking for the low stress option! Thanks for
the tips though, I am now feeling more optimisitic about being able to
do this job. It looks like ensuring I have the correct materials
(mixed to appropriate consistency) is the key... and having the help
of all you kind people!



And treble the time you think it will take. Its best done slowly, very
carefully, and clean everything at every stage with a wet sponge.

BUT my floors have been commented on as 'as good as or better' than
professional layers. I could not make a living out of it at the speed I
do it tho. With decoration and final finish, perfection counts.
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