Hi,

I've just bought a house and tried to connect a washing machine today. The
plumbing includes valves a little like these (http://tinyurl.com/4lwpw) but
straight, not angled.

Unfortunately, there is some leaking, even if the taps are turned off and
the washing machine's hoses are connected (with the supplied filter
washers).

My theory is that:

a. the valves are inherently faulty (given that the taps aren't 100%
effective on them)
b. the valves haven't been correctly fitted to the copper piping (I can't
see any PTFE tape on them, but I don't know whether this is correct).

Does this sound right?

Thanks,
John.

JM wrote:
Hi,

I've just bought a house and tried to connect a washing machine today. The
plumbing includes valves a little like these (http://tinyurl.com/4lwpw) but
straight, not angled.

Unfortunately, there is some leaking, even if the taps are turned off and
the washing machine's hoses are connected (with the supplied filter
washers).

Is there leaking if the hoses are not actually connected, and the taps are
turned off?
If so, this is definately a fault.
In general, the rule for this sort of thing is to if, when it leaks a bit
on assembly, after you've tightened it up, open it up and examine the
seating surfaces of the washer/... for debris or flashing from the mould.
Smooth it flat, if it's not quite flat.
Then reassemble, and give it another tighten.
Grab the body of the valve in a pair of mole-grips or something, and
you can then really tighten the plastic bit.
Putting the plastic connector in boiling water for a couple of minutes
first can make it easier.

Ian Stirling wrote:
JM wrote:
Hi,

I've just bought a house and tried to connect a washing machine
today. The plumbing includes valves a little like these
(http://tinyurl.com/4lwpw) but straight, not angled.

Unfortunately, there is some leaking, even if the taps are turned
off and the washing machine's hoses are connected (with the supplied
filter washers).

Is there leaking if the hoses are not actually connected, and the
taps are turned off?
If so, this is definately a fault.

Yes - the leaking occurs whether the hoses are connected or not, and whether
the taps are on or off.

The leakage appears to be both from the joint between the pipe and the
valve, and from the end of the valve (i.e.after the tap).

In general, the rule for this sort of thing is to if, when it leaks a
bit on assembly, after you've tightened it up, open it up and examine
the seating surfaces of the washer/... for debris or flashing from
the mould. Smooth it flat, if it's not quite flat.
Then reassemble, and give it another tighten.
Grab the body of the valve in a pair of mole-grips or something, and
you can then really tighten the plastic bit.
Putting the plastic connector in boiling water for a couple of minutes
first can make it easier.

I might get someone in to do it as I need a gas cooker installing (plus,
I've not got any experience of plumbing!). It's not 'must be done today'
urgent as we've not moved in yet and the water has in the meantime been
turned off at the supply.

Cheers for the fast response!

John.

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:30:35 +0100, "JM" wrote:

Yes - the leaking occurs whether the hoses are connected or not, and whether
the taps are on or off.

The leakage appears to be both from the joint between the pipe and the
valve, and from the end of the valve (i.e.after the tap).

If it's leaking before the valve, then that's a bad compression
fitting. It can be caused by the pipe being poorly cut (and
distorted), re-using an old olive, jointing onto painted pipe, or just
being cack-handed at fitting them.

The fix is to take the valve off and re-fit it, doing it carefully
this time. You'll need a new olive.

The valve shouldn't leak internally, but especially for high pressure
cold water, it wouldnt be the first one to do so.


You don't need any PTFE tape. It won't help.

Every time I disconnect a washing machine, I also replace the rubber
washers in the flexible hoses. They go hard with age and although they
keep a good seal when undisturbed, they usually leak when they go back
on. They don't always do it, but I prefer to just do a job once.
--
Smert' spamionam

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:30:35 +0100, "JM" wrote:

Yes - the leaking occurs whether the hoses are connected or not, and whether
the taps are on or off.

The leakage appears to be both from the joint between the pipe and the
valve, and from the end of the valve (i.e.after the tap).

If it's leaking before the valve, then that's a bad compression
fitting. It can be caused by the pipe being poorly cut (and
distorted), re-using an old olive, jointing onto painted pipe, or just
being cack-handed at fitting them.

The fix is to take the valve off and re-fit it, doing it carefully
this time. You'll need a new olive.

The valve shouldn't leak internally, but especially for high pressure
cold water, it wouldnt be the first one to do so.

http://www.screwfix.com/
http://www.toolstation.com/

I believe toolstation are still doing free delivery, so that might be
the best way - simply order two valves free postage, should come to
only a couple of quid.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:30:35 +0100, "JM" wrote:

Yes - the leaking occurs whether the hoses are connected or not, and
whether the taps are on or off.

The leakage appears to be both from the joint between the pipe and
the valve, and from the end of the valve (i.e.after the tap).

If it's leaking before the valve, then that's a bad compression
fitting. It can be caused by the pipe being poorly cut (and
distorted), re-using an old olive, jointing onto painted pipe, or just
being cack-handed at fitting them.

The fix is to take the valve off and re-fit it, doing it carefully
this time. You'll need a new olive.

I may well simply buy a couple of new valves just to be sure - they're just
a couple of quid each at Focus (just round the corner from me) and I'm a bit
concerned that the taps on the valves aren't that effective on the current
ones..

The pipes themselves aren't painted, so it'll be one of the other 3 options.

The valve shouldn't leak internally, but especially for high pressure
cold water, it wouldnt be the first one to do so.


You don't need any PTFE tape. It won't help.

Good to know.

Every time I disconnect a washing machine, I also replace the rubber
washers in the flexible hoses. They go hard with age and although they
keep a good seal when undisturbed, they usually leak when they go back
on. They don't always do it, but I prefer to just do a job once.

It's a brand-new washing machine (I've been renting up to now) which came
with all the appropriate hoses, washers, etc. so I expect that they are OK.

Cheers,
John.

On 24 Oct 2004 14:16:22 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

Grab the body of the valve in a pair of mole-grips or something, and
you can then really tighten the plastic bit.

Whoa! Do not REALLY tighten the hose connectors! Nip them up, yes, but
don't do an Arnold Swarzeneggar on them or you will be sorry.

If you attempt to apply too much pressure on the plastic bit what
happens (frequently) is that the plastic bit breaks physically, and
the drip turns into a flood.

In cases where the washing machine hose(s) do not make a good seal on
the tap and everything else is in order, the solution is usually to
replace the washing machine hoses. This has worked for me on a couple
of occasions - so I carry spare hoses in my plumbing kit now.

Have you tried replacing the rubber washer that sits between the hose
and the tap? These cost a few pence and aren't really re-usable if
you've had them in place for a while.

Andrew

Andrew McKay wrote:
On 24 Oct 2004 14:16:22 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

Grab the body of the valve in a pair of mole-grips or something, and
you can then really tighten the plastic bit.

Whoa! Do not REALLY tighten the hose connectors! Nip them up, yes, but
don't do an Arnold Swarzeneggar on them or you will be sorry.

If you attempt to apply too much pressure on the plastic bit what
happens (frequently) is that the plastic bit breaks physically, and
the drip turns into a flood.

The installation instructions for the machine (http://tinyurl.com/5bru9)
specifically advise against using tools to tighten the connectors so that
sounds right to me.

In cases where the washing machine hose(s) do not make a good seal on
the tap and everything else is in order, the solution is usually to
replace the washing machine hoses. This has worked for me on a couple
of occasions - so I carry spare hoses in my plumbing kit now.

Have you tried replacing the rubber washer that sits between the hose
and the tap? These cost a few pence and aren't really re-usable if
you've had them in place for a while.

It's a new machine so that shouldn't be an issue.

John.

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:19:29 +0100, "JM" wrote:

The installation instructions for the machine (http://tinyurl.com/5bru9)
specifically advise against using tools to tighten the connectors so that
sounds right to me.

I use tools to tighten these up (and more often, to unscrew them !).
However I'm using a curved jaw wrench of the right size. If you can
apply enough _even_ compression to get a grip, yet still hold the nut
circular, then you can apply quite some force without damage.

OTOH, if you go at it with flat-jawed Moles from opposite sides, you
distort the thing. Then it breaks in no time at all. If you're really
lucky you get to break the plastic valve body on the input side of the
machine.
--
Smert' spamionam

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:19:29 +0100, "JM" wrote:

The installation instructions for the machine (http://tinyurl.com/5bru9)
specifically advise against using tools to tighten the connectors so that
sounds right to me.

I use tools to tighten these up (and more often, to unscrew them !).
However I'm using a curved jaw wrench of the right size. If you can
apply enough _even_ compression to get a grip, yet still hold the nut
circular, then you can apply quite some force without damage.

OTOH, if you go at it with flat-jawed Moles from opposite sides, you
distort the thing. Then it breaks in no time at all. If you're really
lucky you get to break the plastic valve body on the input side of the
machine.

Sorry I wasn't clear.
I'm not happy applying as much torque as I can get on the plastic, with
just hands and a bit of towel, when the compression seal on the valve
is taking all that torque.
I was just meaning to restrain the valve from turning.

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:19:29 +0100, "JM" wrote:

If you attempt to apply too much pressure on the plastic bit what
happens (frequently) is that the plastic bit breaks physically, and
the drip turns into a flood.

The installation instructions for the machine (http://tinyurl.com/5bru9)
specifically advise against using tools to tighten the connectors so that
sounds right to me.

A pair of gas pliers can be used to nip up the connection, but don't
ever apply lots of pressure to the tightening is the secret. Just hand
tight and a smidgen more is all that is needed.

Have you tried replacing the rubber washer that sits between the hose
and the tap? These cost a few pence and aren't really re-usable if
you've had them in place for a while.

It's a new machine so that shouldn't be an issue.

Fair do's. The ones I have had problems with have been machines where
the supply has been disconnected, and reconnecting has resulted in a
minor drip which wouldn't go away. I have had to go to the extreme of
replacing the entire hot/cold feeds - they seem to get a bit fixed in
their ways after they've been installed for some time and won't adapt
to their new fitting.

Andrew

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:52:55 +0100, "JM" wrote:

Hi,

I've just bought a house and tried to connect a washing machine today. The
plumbing includes valves a little like these (http://tinyurl.com/4lwpw) but
straight, not angled.

Unfortunately, there is some leaking, even if the taps are turned off and
the washing machine's hoses are connected (with the supplied filter
washers).

My theory is that:

a. the valves are inherently faulty (given that the taps aren't 100%
effective on them)
b. the valves haven't been correctly fitted to the copper piping (I can't
see any PTFE tape on them, but I don't know whether this is correct).

Does this sound right?

Hi,

If the valves leak from the spindle then they are faulty, but it could
be the compression joints or the washing machine connections instead.

If this is the case, try some leak sealer on the olive when assembling
the compression joint, and a smear of leak sealer on both sides of the
washer of the washing machine connection. Fernox leak sealer seems to
have a good reputation for this sort of thing.

cheers,
Pete.