In an earlier thread, I described a device which I had made to enable a
radiator to be drained prior to removal by pumping air in through the bleed
hole - thus pushing the contents up into the F&E tank (in a vented system
only, of course) rather than spilling it all over the carpet.

The device consisted of a Schrader valve from a car tyre, soldered into a
1/8" BSP fitting which could be screwed into the radiator in place of the
bleed assembly.

However, not all radiators have a a removeable bleed assembly. Some
rolled-top rads, such as http://www.mills37.plus.com/rolled_top.JPG have the
bleed housing integral with the rad, with only the central pin being
removeable. My devise couldn't be used with such rads.
[The rad in the picture has been outside in the weather for a couple of
years - it isn't one of my best ones!]

I have done a bit more research on bleed pins, and all of mine - regardless
of whether the bleed housing is removeable or integral - seem to have a 2BA
thread. I have now modified my gizmo so that it has a 2BA end to screw into
a radiator in place of the pin rather than in place of the assembly. To do
this, I found a 2BA bolt about 1" long and drilled a 1/16" hole through the
centre of its long axis (pillar drill essential for this!), and then cut the
head off. The bottom end of the Schrader valve, below the works had enough
length, and was just big enough in diameter to allow me to tap a 2BA thread
in it, enabling my drilled headless 2BA bolt to the screwed in. The revised
gizmo now looks like this (with the larger 1/8" BSP fitting surrounding it
now being redundant) http://www.mills37.plus.com/Inflation_tool.jpg

Ideally, the bit which screws into the radiator should have a shaped end -
like the original bleed pin - to fit the conical seat in the housing. In the
absence of a model-maker's lathe, I couldn't do this, but it seals well
enough - albeit not perfectly - on the threads with the use of a bit of PTFE
tape. Here it is when fitted to a radiator.
http://www.mills37.plus.com/fitted_to_rad%20.JPG

If anyone thinks that such a device would be useful, feel free to copy or
improve on the idea.

[I still have *one* rad on which I can't use it. It has the bleed screw on
the *back* rather than the end!]
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Set Square wrote:
In an earlier thread, I described a device which I had made to enable a
radiator to be drained prior to removal by pumping air in through the bleed
hole - thus pushing the contents up into the F&E tank (in a vented system
only, of course) rather than spilling it all over the carpet.

Alternatively, if you've got a wet/dry cleaner, you can switch it into
wet mode, turn it on, then loosen the nuts to allow water to flow out
and be instantly sucked sideways.

"Set Square" wrote in message ...
In an earlier thread, I described a device which I had made to enable a
radiator to be drained prior to removal by pumping air in through the bleed
hole - thus pushing the contents up into the F&E tank (in a vented system
only, of course) rather than spilling it all over the carpet.

The device consisted of a Schrader valve from a car tyre, soldered into a
1/8" BSP fitting which could be screwed into the radiator in place of the
bleed assembly.

However, not all radiators have a a removeable bleed assembly. Some
rolled-top rads, such as http://www.mills37.plus.com/rolled_top.JPG have the
bleed housing integral with the rad, with only the central pin being
removeable. My devise couldn't be used with such rads.
[The rad in the picture has been outside in the weather for a couple of
years - it isn't one of my best ones!]

I have done a bit more research on bleed pins, and all of mine - regardless
of whether the bleed housing is removeable or integral - seem to have a 2BA
thread. I have now modified my gizmo so that it has a 2BA end to screw into
a radiator in place of the pin rather than in place of the assembly. To do
this, I found a 2BA bolt about 1" long and drilled a 1/16" hole through the
centre of its long axis (pillar drill essential for this!), and then cut the
head off. The bottom end of the Schrader valve, below the works had enough
length, and was just big enough in diameter to allow me to tap a 2BA thread
in it, enabling my drilled headless 2BA bolt to the screwed in. The revised
gizmo now looks like this (with the larger 1/8" BSP fitting surrounding it
now being redundant) http://www.mills37.plus.com/Inflation_tool.jpg

Ideally, the bit which screws into the radiator should have a shaped end -
like the original bleed pin - to fit the conical seat in the housing. In the
absence of a model-maker's lathe, I couldn't do this, but it seals well
enough - albeit not perfectly - on the threads with the use of a bit of PTFE
tape. Here it is when fitted to a radiator.
http://www.mills37.plus.com/fitted_to_rad%20.JPG

If anyone thinks that such a device would be useful, feel free to copy or
improve on the idea.

[I still have *one* rad on which I can't use it. It has the bleed screw on
the *back* rather than the end!]

I didn't see the earlier thread which no doubt had much the same
comment of how do you get the gizmo in place without getting water all
over the place from the bleed hole, but then realised that if the
radiator is isolated first then of course there's no pressure !!

Having watched with some amusement my daughter's partner struggle with
a CH system refill after changing a radiator (it's quite good when you
are older and have seen much of it and watch the next generation going
up the same learning curve!), I can well appreciate that this device
could be worth making. I do have the tools - a lathe will be even
better for drilling the 2BA rod - but do wonder whether the time
making the device might exceed the time doing a quick drain down and
refill. One thing that it would be a boon for is removing radiators
when re-decorating though and for that alone I think I will look at
making one.

Thanks

Rob

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Rob Graham wrote:


I didn't see the earlier thread which no doubt had much the same
comment of how do you get the gizmo in place without getting water all
over the place from the bleed hole, but then realised that if the
radiator is isolated first then of course there's no pressure !!

That's right. If you turn off both valves, you can remove the bleed pin
without spilling any water. It best to pump air in with the valves shut,
too - and then crack open a valve and listen to the water being expelled. It
usually takes several goes. You can tell when the rad is empty - because the
last slug of water/air mixture makes a very rude noise as it passes through
the valve!

One thing that it would be a boon for is removing radiators
when re-decorating though and for that alone I think I will look at
making one.

That's precisely what I use it for. It's less useful if the whole system is
being drained. It may take an hour or two to make - but you've then got it
for ever, unless you lose it!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"Set Square" wrote in message ...
In an earlier thread, I described a device which I had made to enable a
radiator to be drained prior to removal by pumping air in through the bleed
hole - thus pushing the contents up into the F&E tank (in a vented system
only, of course) rather than spilling it all over the carpet.

Ideally, the bit which screws into the radiator should have a shaped end -
like the original bleed pin - to fit the conical seat in the housing. In the
absence of a model-maker's lathe, I couldn't do this, but it seals well
enough - albeit not perfectly - on the threads with the use of a bit of PTFE
tape. Here it is when fitted to a radiator.
http://www.mills37.plus.com/fitted_to_rad%20.JPG


Nice one. How bout using a drill as the lathe? An angle grinder makes
an effective cutting/grinding tool, conventional tools arent much good
on a holderless drill lathe.

NT

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
N. Thornton wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier thread, I described a device which I had made to
enable a radiator to be drained prior to removal by pumping air in
through the bleed hole - thus pushing the contents up into the F&E
tank (in a vented system only, of course) rather than spilling it
all over the carpet.

Ideally, the bit which screws into the radiator should have a shaped
end - like the original bleed pin - to fit the conical seat in the
housing. In the absence of a model-maker's lathe, I couldn't do
this, but it seals well enough - albeit not perfectly - on the
threads with the use of a bit of PTFE tape. Here it is when fitted
to a radiator. http://www.mills37.plus.com/fitted_to_rad%20.JPG


Nice one. How bout using a drill as the lathe? An angle grinder makes
an effective cutting/grinding tool, conventional tools arent much good
on a holderless drill lathe.

NT

Possibly. I did rotate the 2BA bolt in a drill chuck, and tried to file a
conical shape on the end - but it wasn't very successful. If you look at the
picture of the original bleed pin, it has quite a complex profile as it
approaches the sharp end - I don't how accurately this would need to be
replicated for it to seal on the conical seat. For example, if the hole in
the rad reduces in diameter near the conical seat, my 2BA thingy wouldn't
actually reach the seat unless that did the same. So I settled for sealing
on the threads instead.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Set Square wrote:

It best to pump air in with the valves shut, too - and then crack
open a valve and listen to the water being expelled.

But you can't start the process that way as the air's got nowhere to go
(unless you attach an external pressure vessel, which would seem a
little OTT).

What do you use for your air supply? - Foot pump, compressor, ...?

It usually takes several goes. You can tell when the rad is empty -
because the last slug of water/air mixture makes a very rude noise as
it passes through the valve!

I'm just wondering whether this might be a good way of disturbing the
sludge, which inevitably collects at the bottom of every radiator, and
distributing it round the system. That would certainly be a Bad Thing.

Nice idea though.

--
Andy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Wade wrote:

Set Square wrote:

It best to pump air in with the valves shut, too - and then crack
open a valve and listen to the water being expelled.

But you can't start the process that way as the air's got nowhere to
go (unless you attach an external pressure vessel, which would seem a
little OTT).

In my experience, there's always *some* air in the top of a radiator, even
when bled, because the bleed screw isn't at the highest point. So you
compress this to start with, and then have more to go at once you have
expelled some of the water.

What do you use for your air supply? - Foot pump, compressor, ...?

Foot pump, operated by hand.


It usually takes several goes. You can tell when the rad is empty -
because the last slug of water/air mixture makes a very rude noise as
it passes through the valve!

I'm just wondering whether this might be a good way of disturbing the
sludge, which inevitably collects at the bottom of every radiator, and
distributing it round the system. That would certainly be a Bad
Thing.

I've never experienced any problems due to this. I think most of the sludge
stays in the rad. You certainly get some coming out when you upend the rad,
having removed it. [You still have to be careful to collect any remaining
water/sludge when undoing the unions - but it's much easier than undoing
them with the rad full of water].
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Alternatively, if you've got a wet/dry cleaner, you can switch it into
wet mode, turn it on, then loosen the nuts to allow water to flow out
and be instantly sucked sideways.

Call me boring, but I just fit draincock type lockshields, so you just
isolate the rad, attach hose, turn the tap and open the bleed valve.
Radiator drained in 2 minutes and not a drop on the floor.

Christian.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote:


Call me boring, but I just fit draincock type lockshields, so you just
isolate the rad, attach hose, turn the tap and open the bleed valve.
Radiator drained in 2 minutes and not a drop on the floor.

Christian.

I think they're a brilliant idea - but I don't have them at the moment, and
can't think of a way of fitting them without draining the rads in some other
way to start with!

Is it fair to assume that they're longer than standard tails - and so
require some pipework adjustments if they're retro-fitted?

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

I think they're a brilliant idea - but I don't have them at the moment,
and
can't think of a way of fitting them without draining the rads in some
other
way to start with!

Well, I did the whole lot at the same time, so the whole system was drained
down. No need to drain individual radiators then.

Is it fair to assume that they're longer than standard tails - and so
require some pipework adjustments if they're retro-fitted?

Nope. Mine were identical to non-draincock types in terms of geometry. The
main problem with them is that they stick out the other way more, which some
(i.e. those who aren't responsible for removing radiators) may find
aesthetically challenging.

Christian.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:34:18 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

I think they're a brilliant idea - but I don't have them at the moment,
and
can't think of a way of fitting them without draining the rads in some
other
way to start with!

Well, I did the whole lot at the same time, so the whole system was drained
down. No need to drain individual radiators then.

Is it fair to assume that they're longer than standard tails - and so
require some pipework adjustments if they're retro-fitted?

Nope. Mine were identical to non-draincock types in terms of geometry. The
main problem with them is that they stick out the other way more, which some
(i.e. those who aren't responsible for removing radiators) may find
aesthetically challenging.

Christian.



You can set the tail so that the hose tail is horizontal, outlet
towards the back.

They are a bit less conspicuous if seen from across the room.and you
can still get the hose onto them.

Ultimately, though, you have to stick up for your rights and remind
"those who aren't responsible for removing radiators" that form over
function is usually not a good thing. Then duck.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

You can set the tail so that the hose tail is horizontal, outlet
towards the back.

I couldn't find a '3 dimensional' type valve. All the ones I saw were in one
plane, so the hose spigot was always going to stick out.

Christian.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:20:08 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

You can set the tail so that the hose tail is horizontal, outlet
towards the back.

I couldn't find a '3 dimensional' type valve. All the ones I saw were in one
plane, so the hose spigot was always going to stick out.

Christian.


Pegler Terrier 367 DLS series.....




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Pegler Terrier 367 DLS series.....

Cheers! (But I'm not redoing all my rads!)

Christian.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:48:39 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Pegler Terrier 367 DLS series.....

Cheers! (But I'm not redoing all my rads!)

Christian.


You're not? I won't tell if you don't :-)


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Set Square" wrote in message ...
[lots of good stuff snipped]

Two points:

1) Before removing the radiator from the wall I have clipped a
child's balloon over each pipe stub to catch any spills.
This helps prevent the black sludge from hitting any carpeting or other
floor covering.
Make sure that you don't puncture the balloon as you slip the neck over
the pipe stub though - perhaps temporary further inflation via the air
pump might give some confidence in the integrity of the seal?

2) It's really useful to learn of other people's home-built tools and
gadgets that they create for specific problems - thanks Set Square!


Mungo