UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
M Gaffar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boiler size sufficient or not?

Calling on the knowledge of any plumbers out there.

I am about to have an extension done and am looking for some guidance on
whether my current boiler will be able to cope with the extra
additions. I appreciate people may not be able to give me a definitive
answer but something along the lines of
a) definitely need bigger boiler
b) may be sufficient but need plumber to do calculations and confirm
c) should be ok
d) more than enough

The current setup is;
3 bed semi, boiler is vaillant model no. vcw gb 242 eh, nominal input
101030 BTU(28.8KW), nominal output 81900 BTU (24KW), burner press mbar
5.1

Front room 15ft by 11.9ft with standard double panel radiator
Lounge 20.5ft by 11.8ft with standard double panel radiator and patio
door to garden
kitchen 15.5ft by 7.5ft no radiator
Bedroom 1 & 2 12ft by 11ft with standard double panel radiators, Bed 3
8ft by 7ft with standard double panel radiator
bathroom 6.5ft by 6.5ft with standard single panel radiator
entrance hallway with standard double panel radiator

After extension, in addition to the above there will be
new downstairs toilet and basin
radiator in kitchen (15ft by 13ft) (approx 6000 BTU)
radiator in study (10ft by 5.8ft) downstairs (approx 2000BTU)
radiators in bedroom 4 and 5 (10ft by 5.8ft & 15ft by 5.8ft) (approx
1400BTU & 2000 BTU)
ensuite shower room (6ft by 6ft) with radiator (approx 1400BTU), shower
may be electric, not decided
larger bedroom 2 (extended by further 9ft by 8 ft)

Any comments/advice appreciated

Thanks
BS


  #2   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:14:34 +0000 (UTC), M Gaffar
wrote:

Calling on the knowledge of any plumbers out there.

I am about to have an extension done and am looking for some guidance on
whether my current boiler will be able to cope with the extra
additions. I appreciate people may not be able to give me a definitive
answer but something along the lines of
a) definitely need bigger boiler
b) may be sufficient but need plumber to do calculations and confirm
c) should be ok
d) more than enough

The current setup is;
3 bed semi, boiler is vaillant model no. vcw gb 242 eh, nominal input
101030 BTU(28.8KW), nominal output 81900 BTU (24KW), burner press mbar
5.1

Front room 15ft by 11.9ft with standard double panel radiator
Lounge 20.5ft by 11.8ft with standard double panel radiator and patio
door to garden
kitchen 15.5ft by 7.5ft no radiator
Bedroom 1 & 2 12ft by 11ft with standard double panel radiators, Bed 3
8ft by 7ft with standard double panel radiator
bathroom 6.5ft by 6.5ft with standard single panel radiator
entrance hallway with standard double panel radiator

After extension, in addition to the above there will be
new downstairs toilet and basin
radiator in kitchen (15ft by 13ft) (approx 6000 BTU)
radiator in study (10ft by 5.8ft) downstairs (approx 2000BTU)
radiators in bedroom 4 and 5 (10ft by 5.8ft & 15ft by 5.8ft) (approx
1400BTU & 2000 BTU)
ensuite shower room (6ft by 6ft) with radiator (approx 1400BTU), shower
may be electric, not decided
larger bedroom 2 (extended by further 9ft by 8 ft)

Any comments/advice appreciated

Thanks
BS


It is much easier if you stick to one system of units (which should be
SI, so dumping deprecated BTUs, feet etc. and using metres and watts.)
It's very easy to make mistakes otherwise.


A simple solution would be to download the radiator calculation
programs from the Barlo radiators web site, or I can email you the
Myson one.

You need to know the wall and window materials and types because this
makes a huge difference.

Plug the numbers in and it will give you heat loss per room.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #3   Report Post  
burbeck
 
Posts: n/a
Default

hi
try this http://www.idhe.org.uk/calculator.html
regards
bob
  #4   Report Post  
Set Square
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
M Gaffar wrote:

Calling on the knowledge of any plumbers out there.

I am about to have an extension done and am looking for some guidance
on whether my current boiler will be able to cope with the extra
additions. I appreciate people may not be able to give me a
definitive answer but something along the lines of
a) definitely need bigger boiler
b) may be sufficient but need plumber to do calculations and confirm
c) should be ok
d) more than enough

The current setup is;
3 bed semi, boiler is vaillant model no. vcw gb 242 eh, nominal input
101030 BTU(28.8KW), nominal output 81900 BTU (24KW), burner press mbar
5.1

Front room 15ft by 11.9ft with standard double panel radiator
Lounge 20.5ft by 11.8ft with standard double panel radiator and patio
door to garden
kitchen 15.5ft by 7.5ft no radiator
Bedroom 1 & 2 12ft by 11ft with standard double panel radiators, Bed 3
8ft by 7ft with standard double panel radiator
bathroom 6.5ft by 6.5ft with standard single panel radiator
entrance hallway with standard double panel radiator

After extension, in addition to the above there will be
new downstairs toilet and basin
radiator in kitchen (15ft by 13ft) (approx 6000 BTU)
radiator in study (10ft by 5.8ft) downstairs (approx 2000BTU)
radiators in bedroom 4 and 5 (10ft by 5.8ft & 15ft by 5.8ft) (approx
1400BTU & 2000 BTU)
ensuite shower room (6ft by 6ft) with radiator (approx 1400BTU),
shower may be electric, not decided
larger bedroom 2 (extended by further 9ft by 8 ft)

Any comments/advice appreciated

Thanks
BS


My hunch is that it's ok - unless the house is very poorly insulated.

To be sure, it needs calculating properly - using the appropriate U values
for all walls, windows, floors, ceilings, etc. The U values are heavily
dependent on the type of wall construction, glazing, and standards of
insulation employed.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #5   Report Post  
Christian McArdle
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I am about to have an extension done and am looking for some guidance on
whether my current boiler will be able to cope with the extra
additions.


It also depends on the insulation. However, if it is an old house with poor
insulation and you are bolting on a new insulated extension to building
regulations, it is actually possible that the total heating requirement goes
down, as the entire extension is actually less leaky than the old
uninsulated wall.

In any case, 24kW should be enough for any semi-detached. Combi boilers (and
modern system ones) are generally sized to provide sufficient hot water
capacity. The heating capacity is usually a fraction of the output power. If
it isn't, the correct procedure is not to replace the boiler, but to improve
your insulation. This would be vastly cheaper in materials and would save a
fortune in energy costs, far more even than the benefit of replacing a
traditional with a condensing boiler.

If you've got an uninsulated cavity, even better. Don't even consider
failing to insulate the cavity whilst you're having the work done. The final
resulting building will probably require less than half the heating of the
previous poorly insulated house.

Christian.




  #6   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
et...
I am about to have an extension done and am looking for some guidance on
whether my current boiler will be able to cope with the extra
additions.


It also depends on the insulation. However, if it is an old house with

poor
insulation and you are bolting on a new insulated extension to building
regulations, it is actually possible that the total heating requirement

goes
down, as the entire extension is actually less leaky than the old
uninsulated wall.

In any case, 24kW should be enough for any semi-detached. Combi boilers

(and
modern system ones) are generally sized to provide sufficient hot water
capacity. The heating capacity is usually a fraction of the output power.

If
it isn't, the correct procedure is not to replace the boiler, but to

improve
your insulation. This would be vastly cheaper in materials and would save

a
fortune in energy costs, far more even than the benefit of replacing a
traditional with a condensing boiler.

If you've got an uninsulated cavity, even better. Don't even consider
failing to insulate the cavity whilst you're having the work done. The

final
resulting building will probably require less than half the heating of the
previous poorly insulated house.


Half?

The whole existing loft would need thicker insulation. Insulating a cavity
in what is now an internal wall. will help, not a great deal. It will
prevent cold air circulating between the house and extension from the other
cavities.

Best have cavity wall insulation all cavities if doing an extension anyway,
with 1 foot of insulation in the loft.



  #7   Report Post  
Christian McArdle
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you've got an uninsulated cavity, even better. Don't even consider
failing to insulate the cavity whilst you're having the work done. The
final resulting building will probably require less than half the heating
of the previous poorly insulated house.


Half?

The whole existing loft would need thicker insulation. Insulating a

cavity
in what is now an internal wall. will help, not a great deal.


Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I meant cavity insulating the entire
original house, not just the dividing wall.

Christian.


  #8   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default



"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
M Gaffar wrote:

Calling on the knowledge of any plumbers out there.

I am about to have an extension done and am looking for some guidance
on whether my current boiler will be able to cope with the extra
additions. I appreciate people may not be able to give me a
definitive answer but something along the lines of
a) definitely need bigger boiler
b) may be sufficient but need plumber to do calculations and confirm
c) should be ok
d) more than enough

The current setup is;
3 bed semi, boiler is vaillant model no. vcw gb 242 eh, nominal input
101030 BTU(28.8KW), nominal output 81900 BTU (24KW), burner press mbar
5.1

Front room 15ft by 11.9ft with standard double panel radiator
Lounge 20.5ft by 11.8ft with standard double panel radiator and patio
door to garden
kitchen 15.5ft by 7.5ft no radiator
Bedroom 1 & 2 12ft by 11ft with standard double panel radiators, Bed 3
8ft by 7ft with standard double panel radiator
bathroom 6.5ft by 6.5ft with standard single panel radiator
entrance hallway with standard double panel radiator

After extension, in addition to the above there will be
new downstairs toilet and basin
radiator in kitchen (15ft by 13ft) (approx 6000 BTU)
radiator in study (10ft by 5.8ft) downstairs (approx 2000BTU)
radiators in bedroom 4 and 5 (10ft by 5.8ft & 15ft by 5.8ft) (approx
1400BTU & 2000 BTU)
ensuite shower room (6ft by 6ft) with radiator (approx 1400BTU),
shower may be electric, not decided
larger bedroom 2 (extended by further 9ft by 8 ft)

Any comments/advice appreciated

Thanks
BS


My hunch is that it's ok - unless the house is very poorly insulated.

To be sure, it needs calculating properly - using the appropriate U values
for all walls, windows, floors, ceilings, etc. The U values are heavily
dependent on the type of wall construction, glazing, and standards of
insulation employed.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


Thanks for all the replies, The feeling seems to be it should be able to
cope
as is confirmed by the useful website link posted above. I'll also be
making
sure the insulation for the existing house is looked at once the
building work
is underway

Just whilst I'm on the topic, is a Corgi registered engineer required to
resite the boiler
(I'll be moving it from upstairs bathroom to downstairs utility room) or
can
any competent plumber do this?
Builder has included this in his list of jobs to do but has confirmed
the
engineer is not Corgi registered, but very experienced and used by him
for all
his jobs

Thanks
  #11   Report Post  
Christian McArdle
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It would be illegal for an unregistered plumber to do this however
experienced he is.


However, most of the work could be done by the person, provided that the gas
work part and the commissioning was done by a CORGI. The majority of work
resiting a boiler consists of rerouting the water pipework and electrics,
mounting the boiler to the wall and creating a suitable path for the flue to
run through. The CORGI can then come in, route the gas pipe, install the
flue and commission the boiler.

Christian.


  #12   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
wrote:
Just whilst I'm on the topic, is a Corgi registered engineer required to
resite the boiler (I'll be moving it from upstairs bathroom to
downstairs utility room) or can any competent plumber do this? Builder
has included this in his list of jobs to do but has confirmed the
engineer is not Corgi registered, but very experienced and used by him
for all his jobs


That's very strange. For quite some time now, anyone working on gas as a
job or part of it has had to be CORGI registered by law. For your builder
to use someone who isn't lays both of them open to prosecution. I hope
your builder isn't equally as lax with other legal requirements.

--
*It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #13   Report Post  
M Gaffar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
Just whilst I'm on the topic, is a Corgi registered engineer required to
resite the boiler (I'll be moving it from upstairs bathroom to
downstairs utility room) or can any competent plumber do this? Builder
has included this in his list of jobs to do but has confirmed the
engineer is not Corgi registered, but very experienced and used by him
for all his jobs


That's very strange. For quite some time now, anyone working on gas as a
job or part of it has had to be CORGI registered by law. For your builder
to use someone who isn't lays both of them open to prosecution. I hope
your builder isn't equally as lax with other legal requirements.

--
*It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


It's something I'll be picking up with him, I've already spoken to the
local building
inspectors (not about this particular issue, but his work in general),
and the 2 that have had to assess his jobs so far have never had any
problems with his work.

Regards
  #14   Report Post  
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:20:36 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

It would be illegal for an unregistered plumber to do this however
experienced he is.


However, most of the work could be done by the person, provided that the gas
work part and the commissioning was done by a CORGI. The majority of work
resiting a boiler consists of rerouting the water pipework and electrics,
mounting the boiler to the wall and creating a suitable path for the flue to
run through. The CORGI can then come in, route the gas pipe, install the
flue and commission the boiler.

Christian.

All true. However finding a CORGI fitter willing to just do a small
part of the job and then take legal responsibility for the complete
installation may not be so easy.

For example, I have spoken to some who will not touch a job like this
without doing a complete gas pipe run all the way back to the meter on
the argument that they can see the work for which they are
responsible. The same with flue installation.

It is a seller's market.......


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #15   Report Post  
Gaffar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
Just whilst I'm on the topic, is a Corgi registered engineer required to
resite the boiler (I'll be moving it from upstairs bathroom to
downstairs utility room) or can any competent plumber do this? Builder
has included this in his list of jobs to do but has confirmed the
engineer is not Corgi registered, but very experienced and used by him
for all his jobs


That's very strange. For quite some time now, anyone working on gas as a
job or part of it has had to be CORGI registered by law. For your builder
to use someone who isn't lays both of them open to prosecution. I hope
your builder isn't equally as lax with other legal requirements.

--
*It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Thanks for all the replies guys, I have spoken to the builder now and he
has confirmed that his plumber is not Corgi registered but (as suggested
on here) he does most of the pipe and fitting work and he has a contact
who is Corgi registered who does the gas commisioning and
decommisioning, then checks the rest of the installation and provides
the certificate.

Is there anything wrong with this approach?

Regards


  #16   Report Post  
Dave Plowman (News)
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
Gaffar wrote:
Thanks for all the replies guys, I have spoken to the builder now and he
has confirmed that his plumber is not Corgi registered but (as suggested
on here) he does most of the pipe and fitting work and he has a contact
who is Corgi registered who does the gas commisioning and
decommisioning, then checks the rest of the installation and provides
the certificate.


Is there anything wrong with this approach?


No. Just seems odd for a pro setup.

--
*A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #17   Report Post  
Owain
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Gaffar" wrote
| Thanks for all the replies guys, I have spoken to the builder
| now and he has confirmed that his plumber is not Corgi registered
| but (as suggested on here) he does most of the pipe and fitting
| work and he has a contact who is Corgi registered who does the
| gas commisioning and decommisioning, then checks the rest of
| the installation and provides the certificate.
| Is there anything wrong with this approach?

Depends. If the 'contact' is CORGI registered on his own account and is
properly invoicing the plumber who is invoicing the builder who is invoicing
you, then the CORGI registration is valid and the plumber (and thus
eventually you) should be covered by his insurances. Remember too that his
CORGI registration must be valid for the classes of work he is doing;
someone certified for fish fryers isn't necessarily allowed to touch
domestic boilers or water heaters. Ed Sirett's FAQs are floating around
cyberspace somewhere.

If however the 'contact' is CORGI registered to his employer and is doing
work on the black, his CORGI registration (and his employer's insurances)
will NOT cover him (and thus you). A particular problem I've encountered
seems to be local authority housing gasfitters doing work on the black.

Owain


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Copper pipe sizing. Is bigger better? Paul J Home Repair 19 February 29th 04 08:52 PM
CM67 Optimum Start algorithm Set Square UK diy 115 February 13th 04 11:11 PM
Another heating problem question! David Hearn UK diy 9 December 12th 03 09:29 PM
Replacing a boiler David Hearn UK diy 38 November 13th 03 12:10 AM
New boiler operation/settings John UK diy 3 October 27th 03 11:57 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:21 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"