I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e or a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature which seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these things from
zero!

Sky

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e or a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature which seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these things from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Thanks for that, Ed. Which combi would you recommend, as an expert?

Sky

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e or a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I switched that feature off as it annoyed me having the boiler keep firing
for no real reason. The response is good enough with it off. I would go with
the Vailliant. I have an 828e which is 18mths old. The pump failed on it
last week as there was some crud in the system which jammed the pump (the
system is old but the boiler is new) The pump is a grandfos one which you
will find in any boiler so it is not a fault of the boiler as such.

Vaillant came out and fixed it very qucikly indeed and at no charge all
under warrently. excellent.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:53:09 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

Thanks for that, Ed. Which combi would you recommend, as an expert?

1) The one you beleive you want.
2) The one I'm familiar with so I don't have to read the instructions.

but that's not what you wanted to read...

If Quality and efficiency initial cost saving: Vaillant Ecomax

Reasonable compromise for most home owners: Vaillant Turbomax

There are other make and models I would ber content with including W-B,
Ideal & GlowWorm.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Many thanks for the advice guys - I'm chewing over the details this weekend
so I really appreciate your advice.

Cheers,

Sky

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e or a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I'm pretty sure the Junior won't do this - it's the type with some sort of
combined primary heat exchanger for CH and DHW rather than a secondary for
DHW. (Very nice build and simple inside: just a flow sensor switch in the
cold inlet, no diverter valve etc. I've just hung one but not fired it up
yet so we'll see how it flies .....)

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:42:49 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e or a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I'm pretty sure the Junior won't do this - it's the type with some sort of
combined primary heat exchanger for CH and DHW rather than a secondary for
DHW. (Very nice build and simple inside: just a flow sensor switch in the
cold inlet, no diverter valve etc. I've just hung one but not fired it up
yet so we'll see how it flies .....)

What sort of price did you pay?
I presume it's around 24kW with a SEDBUK of 80%.

The design sounds a bit like a Ferroli.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Scott Mills" wrote in message
...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e or
a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I switched that feature off as it annoyed me having the boiler keep firing
for no real reason. The response is good enough with it off. I would go
with
the Vailliant. I have an 828e which is 18mths old. The pump failed on it
last week as there was some crud in the system which jammed the pump (the
system is old but the boiler is new) The pump is a grandfos one which you
will find in any boiler so it is not a fault of the boiler as such.

Vaillant came out and fixed it very qucikly indeed and at no charge all
under warrently. excellent.

When installing any new boiler on an old system it is very wise, I would say
essential, to install an in-line strainer on the return pipe. This catches
all the crud. After 1, 2, 3 years, it is a simple matter of undoing the nut
and cleaning it out.

If Vaillant insisted on this in their instructions (do they?) then they
would quite easily charge you for the replacement pump.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e or
a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I'm pretty sure the Junior won't do this - it's the type with some sort of
combined primary heat exchanger for CH and DHW rather than a secondary for
DHW. (Very nice build and simple inside: just a flow sensor switch in the
cold inlet, no diverter valve etc. I've just hung one but not fired it up
yet so we'll see how it flies .....)

I have heard a few good reports on this. How much do they cost? I know it is
only a low flowrate model, but must be ideal for shower only flats; small
and simple.

The Ideal Response and Ferroli Modena also have a similar simple setup.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e
or
a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature
which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these
things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby
in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I'm pretty sure the Junior won't do this - it's the type with some sort
of
combined primary heat exchanger for CH and DHW rather than a secondary
for
DHW. (Very nice build and simple inside: just a flow sensor switch in
the
cold inlet, no diverter valve etc. I've just hung one but not fired it
up
yet so we'll see how it flies .....)

I have heard a few good reports on this. How much do they cost? I know it
is
only a low flowrate model, but must be ideal for shower only flats; small
and simple.

Found out:

Worcester 28i Junior
Worcester 28i Junior Combination Boiler

kW - 8 to 27.5 (27,296 to 93,830) btu's

High - 600mm
Wide - 400mm
Deep - 325mm

HW Flow Rate - 11.2 L Per Min

Price Includes Delivery.
£581.63 Including VAT


Worcester 24i Junior
Worcester 24i Junior Combination Boiler

kW - 7.5 to 23.5 (25,600 to 80,182) btu's

High - 600mm
Wide - 400mm
Deep - 325mm

HW Flow Rate - 9.6 L Per Min

Price Includes Delivery.
£481.75 Including VAT

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:42:49 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e
or a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I'm pretty sure the Junior won't do this - it's the type with some sort
of
combined primary heat exchanger for CH and DHW rather than a secondary
for
DHW. (Very nice build and simple inside: just a flow sensor switch in
the
cold inlet, no diverter valve etc. I've just hung one but not fired it
up
yet so we'll see how it flies .....)

What sort of price did you pay?

About 550 inc std flue from Jayhards (now Bathroom Centre or something like
that)

I presume it's around 24kW with a SEDBUK of 80%.

yup (leastways the 24i is :-)


The design sounds a bit like a Ferroli.

never seen one of those in the flesh, but there are some pics at
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.stumbles/Junior/

You can't see clearly from the photos (and I couldn't see clearly in the
flesh) how the CH and DHW parts of the heat exchanger are arranged: whether
alternate finned tubes serve CH and DHW, or whether -- and I'm guessing
from the necessity to prevent either boiling when the other's being
heated -- that it's some sort of concentric pipe arangement to keep the CH
and DHW in intimate contact.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message news:...
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news

What sort of price did you pay?

About 550 inc std flue from Jayhards (now Bathroom Centre or something
like
that)

Oops - bzzt!

just under £500 all up

And the invoice still says Jayhard

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:13:23 +0000, IMM wrote:


"Scott Mills" wrote in message
...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e or
a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I switched that feature off as it annoyed me having the boiler keep firing
for no real reason. The response is good enough with it off. I would go
with
the Vailliant. I have an 828e which is 18mths old. The pump failed on it
last week as there was some crud in the system which jammed the pump (the
system is old but the boiler is new) The pump is a grandfos one which you
will find in any boiler so it is not a fault of the boiler as such.

Vaillant came out and fixed it very qucikly indeed and at no charge all
under warrently. excellent.

When installing any new boiler on an old system it is very wise, I would say
essential, to install an in-line strainer on the return pipe. This catches
all the crud. After 1, 2, 3 years, it is a simple matter of undoing the nut
and cleaning it out.

If Vaillant insisted on this in their instructions (do they?) then they
would quite easily charge you for the replacement pump.

The instructions don't mention using a strainer but they do insist that
old system is cleaned out twice.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"IMM" wrote in message
...

Worcester 28i Junior
Worcester 28i Junior Combination Boiler

kW - 8 to 27.5 (27,296 to 93,830) btu's

High - 600mm
Wide - 400mm
Deep - 325mm

HW Flow Rate - 11.2 L Per Min

Price Includes Delivery.
£581.63 Including VAT


Worcester 24i Junior
Worcester 24i Junior Combination Boiler

kW - 7.5 to 23.5 (25,600 to 80,182) btu's

High - 600mm
Wide - 400mm
Deep - 325mm

HW Flow Rate - 9.6 L Per Min

Price Includes Delivery.
£481.75 Including VAT

Where's that from?

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
"IMM" wrote in message
...

Worcester 28i Junior
Worcester 28i Junior Combination Boiler

kW - 8 to 27.5 (27,296 to 93,830) btu's

High - 600mm
Wide - 400mm
Deep - 325mm

HW Flow Rate - 11.2 L Per Min

Price Includes Delivery.
£581.63 Including VAT


Worcester 24i Junior
Worcester 24i Junior Combination Boiler

kW - 7.5 to 23.5 (25,600 to 80,182) btu's

High - 600mm
Wide - 400mm
Deep - 325mm

HW Flow Rate - 9.6 L Per Min

Price Includes Delivery.
£481.75 Including VAT

Where's that from?

Http://www.discountedheating.co.uk

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:42:49 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax 824e
or a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm
wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature
which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these
things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on standby
in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I'm pretty sure the Junior won't do this - it's the type with some
sort
of
combined primary heat exchanger for CH and DHW rather than a secondary
for
DHW. (Very nice build and simple inside: just a flow sensor switch in
the
cold inlet, no diverter valve etc. I've just hung one but not fired it
up
yet so we'll see how it flies .....)

What sort of price did you pay?

About 550 inc std flue from Jayhards (now Bathroom Centre or something
like
that)

I presume it's around 24kW with a SEDBUK of 80%.

yup (leastways the 24i is :-)

The design sounds a bit like a Ferroli.

never seen one of those in the flesh, but there are some pics at
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.stumbles/Junior/

You can't see clearly from the photos (and I couldn't see clearly in the
flesh) how the CH and DHW parts of the heat exchanger are arranged:
whether
alternate finned tubes serve CH and DHW, or whether -- and I'm guessing
from the necessity to prevent either boiling when the other's being
heated -- that it's some sort of concentric pipe arangement to keep the CH
and DHW in intimate contact.

Make sure you have a phosphor de-scaler on the system. Where fresh water is
run though the main heat exchanger scale can easily build up. It looks a
doddle to remove the heat exchanger to de-scale it though.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
"John Stumbles" wrote in message news:...
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news

What sort of price did you pay?

About 550 inc std flue from Jayhards (now Bathroom Centre or something
like
that)

Oops - bzzt!

just under £500 all up

Is the flue extra?

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:42:49 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:05:28 +0000, Skyloop wrote:

I'm a novice with a choice to make between a Vaillant Turbomax
824e
or a
Worcester Bosch 28i Junior combi (running 9 rads), and I'm
wondering
whether
anyone has any comments on the Vaillant's 'Aquacomfort' feature
which
seems
to provide 'instant' hot water.

Is it the kind of feature which should influence my decision?

Sincere thanks for any advice, it's tough learning about these
things
from
zero!

This feature has been around most middle market+ combis for a
long while. All it means is that the innards are kept hot on
standby
in
readiness for HW production. The feature is user selectable.

IME this means the boiler fires perhaps a couple of times an hour
for
about 30 seconds each time.

A reasonable make like the W-B might well also have this feature.

I'm pretty sure the Junior won't do this - it's the type with some
sort
of
combined primary heat exchanger for CH and DHW rather than a
secondary
for
DHW. (Very nice build and simple inside: just a flow sensor switch
in
the
cold inlet, no diverter valve etc. I've just hung one but not fired
it
up
yet so we'll see how it flies .....)

What sort of price did you pay?

About 550 inc std flue from Jayhards (now Bathroom Centre or something
like
that)

I presume it's around 24kW with a SEDBUK of 80%.

yup (leastways the 24i is :-)

The design sounds a bit like a Ferroli.

never seen one of those in the flesh, but there are some pics at
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.stumbles/Junior/

You can't see clearly from the photos (and I couldn't see clearly in the
flesh) how the CH and DHW parts of the heat exchanger are arranged:
whether
alternate finned tubes serve CH and DHW, or whether -- and I'm guessing
from the necessity to prevent either boiling when the other's being
heated -- that it's some sort of concentric pipe arangement to keep the
CH
and DHW in intimate contact.

Make sure you have a phosphor de-scaler on the system. Where fresh water
is
run though the main heat exchanger scale can easily build up. It looks a
doddle to remove the heat exchanger to de-scale it though.

Yup, always do - no dearer than the snake-oil electric/magnetic types and
they might actually work. Only thing is I use the Permutit jobs from B&Q and
it's hard to see where the water comes out of the cartridge - there only
seems to be one hole, in the centre of it. Any suggestions how one might
test for (presumably minute) amounts of the phosphor whotsit stuff in the
'treated' water?

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
"John Stumbles" wrote in message news:...
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news

What sort of price did you pay?

About 550 inc std flue from Jayhards (now Bathroom Centre or something
like
that)

Oops - bzzt!

just under £500 all up

Is the flue extra?

yes but I included that in the price I referred to